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Author Topic: Brainstorming: Icetribes‘ Religion: The nature of the gods  (Read 25138 times)
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #30 on: 27 September 2007, 14:46:43 »

 ;)  I'm learnin.....

now the idea of an underworld has come up... but what about the abode of the gods?  a mount olympus of sorts..... they need a home, and the Ice Lands are their playgrounds.... with humans as playthings... i think.....
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #31 on: 27 September 2007, 16:10:38 »

Yes, let's see:

Heaven: A Refugio far in the north. When I visited Art ages ago we expanded the map so that Caelereth will once be a real disk. There I proposed to add another smaller continent in the very north. My thoughts turned around this continent afterwards and I imagined it as a huge mountain/ice barrier ( behind which a land lies where perhaps the sun never shines). The icetribes may have seen it from afar on one of the few days were the ice on the sea in this regions melted to a certain degree (so that ships could penetrate). There they could imagine the residence of their gods.

Hell: I would go away (well, I would like to) from the image that the hell is underneath your feet. It could be in the very south, maybe Aeruillin is in their imagination the hell?

LOL: The names for
Heaven -  Icespring  (maybe they imagine all the ice coming from the north)
Hell: Aeruillin  (I'm not really serious with this one) or Aerin (better)

How does hell look like and who goes there? All people who have died (Hades)? Or are the good ones allowed to join the gods in heaven/Icespring? Is coming in the hell a punishment? Can you get out again? Let me remind you that these are views of the catholic church which may not apply here!


And what we need to consider as well is the fact, that if we choose this scenario the moon and with it Nyecha? will have a strong position for the moon circles in the north and appears there most times bigger than the sun which gets smaller and bigger during the year. (Biggest in summer) The myths need to reflect this as well.

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« Last Edit: 27 September 2007, 16:15:05 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #32 on: 29 September 2007, 02:31:15 »

Perhaps the underworld (hell) could be a testing place where they are tested by the gods to determine their "fitness" for the Refugio/Icespring--those who don't "pass" must remain, to be retested every thousand years or something like that?

Thus "Aerin" (or whatever we want to call it) is a sort of Purgatory, but not necessarily a place of hideous torment by devils.  Instead it is a kind of endless desert.  We can work out the procedures  by which they believe people are"tested" later.

What do you think?

Alysse
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Arceon Barrurbeleth
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« Reply #33 on: 29 September 2007, 03:39:22 »

Quote
but not necessarily a place of hideous torment by devils
Suggestion: I had an idea of some sort of "devils", they are actually dead people who failed the testing on countless occasions and are forever trapped inside Aerin. They failed the tests so many times that the gods have forbidden them from ever taking the test again. They would also be jealous about others who can take the test and would get in the way of those who take the test...
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« Reply #34 on: 29 September 2007, 04:10:16 »

As long as we stay clearly away from the name (and partly concept )"devil" it is fine with me.
Those who failed all tests and will never sit with the gods... what a terrible idea!

What about famous warriors, merited ones. Have they to absolve that test as well, or is there a way to avoid that place? Do have bad warriors harder tests? And what about the property women? They probably won't have a place in this Valhalla, that would degrade the men! Maybe they have no afterlife. Would be another reason to dream of the Himikos! (This place could be full of young women - but let us not get too close to the Muslim idea of their heaven)
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Arceon Barrurbeleth
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« Reply #35 on: 29 September 2007, 04:48:56 »

Those who fail all the tests several times in a row don't get to sit with the gods.
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #36 on: 29 September 2007, 21:53:36 »

Warriors who showed cowardice in battle should not get to take this test at all.  Perhaps they can be these devils that we are talking about.  Dishonored warriors and such.
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Arceon Barrurbeleth
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« Reply #37 on: 29 September 2007, 22:14:01 »

Yep, that might work.
Or there might be some sort of a courage test to determine cowards and ban them from the Icespring...
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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #38 on: 29 September 2007, 22:18:44 »

Maybe we need three "Places" :

The god's realm(heaven)
a kind of limbus (is this the right word?) where the tests take place
The "lost ones" realm (hell)

Very brave warriors come directly to the gods, cowards (if they have died during this battle) directly to the "lost ones".

????
Geographical location?

The gods realm - in the very north
"lost place" - in the very south (where it is oh sooo hot)
Limbus - in the NE and NW where the moon enters the void.

---- The gods realm is nearr than the hell!!!!
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #39 on: 29 September 2007, 22:25:57 »

Makes sense to me grin

I like the idea of Limbo, where you are judged.  If we put that in the NE NW where the moon rises and sets, then we should bring some extra significance to the moon itself.  Is it a "holy eye" or something that watches the actions of man, so that when you go to Limbo, it is these actions that you are judged on?
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #40 on: 30 September 2007, 02:16:47 »

The concept of Limbo is good but can we avoid the name?  (thinks of all the associations, including dancing, that go with that term)  Can we just call it the "Void" or the "Judgement Realm" or "Place of the Undead" (idea being that until they pass into Icespring or Aerin, they are considered 'undead"--not alive  but not precisely dead either.

I agree that we shouldn't use the term "devil"--too much RL baggage with that term too.  Perhaps we should just call them the "Dishonoured Ones" or the "Lost Ones" or something like that.

These are great ideas! Maybe once we get this organized we can develop some myths, too.

But I think women should be included (both in Icespring, as servants to the men and Aerin, where their spirits join in with trying to prevent the undead from fulfilling their tasks)   Thus a "good" woman is granted the privilege of easy, undemanding service in Icespring, where a "bad" one goes straight to Aerin.  They might not be tested, but sent straight to one place or the other.
Without the promise of a better afterlife, what incentive would they have to be "good" women?  There is a big difference between resentful obedience and co-operative compliance.

Well, need to run, see you guys later,

Alysse
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Alysse the Likely
Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #41 on: 30 September 2007, 02:24:57 »

As far as I know, the terms we are using are all just for our benefit now, so we know what each other means.  I would hope that we are going to change all the names to protect the innocent... er, to more Ice Tribe sounding names.  I had no intention of naming this testing ground Limbo, or purgatory or anything like that, just using it so that you all knew to what I was referring.  Naming these places can come after we decide how they work, for what is their purpose, etc.

I like involving the women.  Besides, what man wants to go to a place where he will spend eternity and not have a female to look at??  Not me!! grin
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Arceon Barrurbeleth
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« Reply #42 on: 30 September 2007, 05:18:29 »

If we go for a three place idea then I suggest that in this "Limbo" humans are tested not by gods but by some kind of "lesser spirit", we can make that each god has a test and their familiars conduct and supervise these tests...
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #43 on: 01 October 2007, 08:58:04 »

Okay, just so we can nail some concepts down, let's regroup here.  Right now we've mostly worked out the ideas of:

A "heaven", a "hell", and a "limbo".  I like the names Talia suggested; "Icespring" and "Aerin"--shall we make those official?  And then we can use "Void" for the testing grounds, if that's agreeable.

In Icespring we have gods, goddesses, their gender neutral servants and those fortunate spirits who have passed the testing.  Goddesses are not as powerful as gods but are more cunning/tricky.

Aerin is populated by the desolate spirits that have failed (after several tries?  3 times, maybe? ) to pass the testing

The Void (or Judgement Grounds, or whatever) is populated by those being tested and those who have failed one or two times but not yet been sent on

Those seem to be fairly well agreed on (correct me if I'm wrong, please!)


Then we have some other ideas which need to be decided on, such as:

Testing is for males only--females are sent directly to one place or the other

The gods each have their own tests, conducted by their familiars (or possibly the genderless servants?)


I'm not trying to make any kind of final judgement here, just hoping to get some things settled so we have a foundation to build on.    Input, anyone?


Alysse



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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #44 on: 01 October 2007, 15:15:38 »

All fine with me - except - I think it is a bit too much if every god tests every single man coming to the testing grounds. I think the interest of the gods in the humans is not this great. Especially if we want to describe these test (and we should at least hint at what kind of tests these are, or not?) then we would have quite some work to do and maybe these test are not of a kind we want to describe in detail.

I'm not sure either if these neutral servants should do the tests. This would determine their nature maybe more than we want to. perhaps we should first sketch their character:
- messanger of the gods
- intermediator between gods and men?
- playmate(toy, not what you think :p), companion of the gods

This far it has quite a positive feeling, if we add the testing, this might change dramatically.

How, BTW, should this testing look like?

To the women - I think it is a good idea to send them straight away to either place - that shows their lower status very well.

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