Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

Bard Judith

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #135 on: 22 January 2009, 08:15:58 »

Not at all, Morden - we prize your specialized knowledge. This is a team project in which we all bring our skills, and I for one am very happy to have someone catch my more basic errors and fill in the gaps - not something we could do singlehanded...

Yes, I do hope those suggested endings are 'unique' - I tried to choose syllables that were distinctive. But both of you, feel free to rewrite it and shove it around again! Morden, do redo the list I provided, correctly this time, will you? (blushes) I just try to keep holding to the concept that simpler is better....but I was pretty fuzzy last night....

Unfortunately Rayne did put in gender distinctions (Brogur / Brogra for "I" masculine / "I" feminine) which I would have preferred to avoid except where necessary (pronouns and the like)....


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Mannix

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #136 on: 22 January 2009, 14:50:18 »

Wouldn't having no spaces in between the verb and time signal make it a bit confusing? The main reason I suggested my idea was that it was less strict with the rules. You don't have to necessarily add the furture time signal, but instead you could add tomorrow, or next week. Are we planning to go ahead with this, or just having a time signal for each tense. Because, if we decide to have numerous signals and no spaces then it might become a bit hard to pick the verb out in sentences. I know I sometimes make that mistake with French. And, while I'm sure the gnomes would be fine with this, weren't we trying to make a language that wasn't too hard on us? I'd just prefer the signals to be separate from the verb. I really do like the idea of having loose time signals, instead of rigid ones, and I'm not sure this would be possible when joined to the verb. But I do see you desire to keep it different from dwarven. Perhaps we could have it after the verb, but with a space there? Of course, if you guys think otherwise, then I'm happy to go with the group decision.

I think if we go with the numerous time signals then it will differ Gnomic from Dwarven in that aspect. And it does make it simpler, in my eyes. Otherwise we might get a bit confused with all the tenses. I know at least I will get lost in the six different past tenses, since I'm not very knowledgable with all that language mumbo-jumbo. But maybe you guys disagree. If so, I'll happily go with Judy's suggestion, for the good of the development. But is there a way we could still get my time signal ideas in? The one about being able to have the a different time signal, say yesterday, rather than the usual one.

Oh, and Judy a little thing I noticed. The title says Gnomish. Tut-tut.

Mannix


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Bard Judith

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #137 on: 22 January 2009, 21:15:33 »

I'm fine with separating them, and having them either before or after. Whatever the majority thinks is SIMPLER!


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Mannix

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #138 on: 31 January 2009, 11:15:03 »

Just a little bump. We'd love you opinion on this, Gaffin, when you have the time. And anyone else who has some thoughts on it, please do tell.

Mannix


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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #139 on: 22 February 2009, 11:11:53 »

Shall we try and get this going again. I know we're probably all busy, I know I am, and Judy has that internet problem still, doesn't she? But if we take it nice and slow we should be okay, I think. Oh, and Gaffin, when you have the time, what do you think about the tenses? Should the time signal be joined to the verb, or separate?

If I may propose a little task for us, could we get all our prefixes and suffixes for verbs nailed down. Because right now I'm a little confused by it. And it will help build our vocabulary. I'm pretty much at a loss with this, so I'll just do what I can and leave gaps where I'm unsure.

Prefixes
Zer -
Zor -
Ziir - (I'm not really getting these three, which isn't to good. Could I have a little help with it. Pretty please.)
Y - Reverses the meaning of the verb. Equivalent of English dis-, as in dissemble or disappear, and un-, as in unfasten. (Is this for all verbs, or are we going to have numerous ones like English.)
(insert prefix here) - Meaning again. Equivalent of English re-, as in rewrite or review or recognise.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning too much. Equivalent of English over-, as in oversleep or overwork.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning more or better. Equivalent of English out-, as in outdo or outbid.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning make. Equivalent of English be-, as in befriend or belittle.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning together. Equivalent of English co-, as in co-operate.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning do the opposite of. Equivalent of English de-, as in devalue or deselect.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning before or earlier. Equivalent of English fore-, as in forewarn or foresee.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning before. Equivalent of English pre-, as in pre.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning under or below. Equivalent of English sub-, as in sub-level or subdivide.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning between. Equivalent of English inter-, as in interact or interface.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning across or over. Equivalent of English trans-, as in transport or transform.
(insert prefix here) - Meaning not enough. Equivalent of English under-, as in underpaid or underdeveloped.

I don't really have the time to fill in any gaps or do the suffixes, but at least it is a start. Hopefully there aren't too many errors with it. In those famous words, I'll be back.

Mannix


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Bard Judith

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #140 on: 08 August 2010, 13:07:13 »

Bumped for our newest linguist's sake!


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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #141 on: 08 August 2010, 19:36:57 »

Quote

Bumped for our newest linguist's sake!

Thanks. Um, I suppose my function as "linguist" here is to help structure the Gnomish language, right? Also, is it okay if I make this thread my "base of operations," so to speak?

Well, then...

I've read the threads available on Gnomish, and I've understood that there are two versions of the language in existence (one is strictly SOV and uses particles to indicate grammatical role, and one has either SVO or relatively free word order and centers the verb system around a group of auxiliaries, namely zer, zor, and ziir).

Many proposals, if I may be blunt, mirror English in an unnecessary way. For example, the tense system proposed by Rayne is very close to that of English, although the manner of marking the forms might be different (you can see it here: http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,5002.0.html). Similarly, Mannix, in two posts below this one, suggests a rather complex and English-like system of prefixes on nouns and verbs. This is all fine, but if we are trying to create a language that is easy to use, I suggest we take a different approach.

I will post my suggestions for a grammatical framework as soon as I am done with it.


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Bard Judith

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #142 on: 05 April 2011, 08:47:20 »

"Logyia" means "thought" or "investigation", while "Zoho" means 'natural world'....


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Rayne (Alýr)

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #143 on: 09 April 2011, 11:15:33 »

The tense system proposed by Rayne is actually based on Japanese, not English. There are many languages that conjugate verbs, after all.

I have not done much more development in the realm on gnomish development, but my intention was always to have the similarities be with Japanese, not English, and therefore to have an agglutinating pattern to more complex forms of conjugation--i.e. morphemes for past tense, passive, honorific, intention/desire, negation, etc. be expressed with the addition of morphemes.


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Valan Nonesuch

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Re: Gnomish Vocabulary and Grammar Discussion

« Reply #144 on: 11 April 2011, 22:35:59 »

Baverik Oceanic
Nackthle Shelled
Vernwirkung, Mushroom
I cannot take credit for the word for musrhoom, it belong to Shaba


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