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Author Topic: Eratin's Windsinger  (Read 4973 times)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« on: 04 April 2008, 03:38:00 »

Eratin is working again on the Windsinger, and while we're still not finished, here are two version he's working on:





Here's Eratin's mail:

"Hey Arty,

I am working up two versions of the windsinger, as I can't decide which one I like more, and it is fun to diverge a bit. I am making them compete with one another. That should force the best out of each of them, eh?

Do you have a preference? I am sort of partial to the darker, moodier one, but it is fresher so duh. The other is not too much changed from where the thing left off, save for her hands, the extra drapery, and better color balance. They are still basically elaborate thumbs, but you get the idea...

Cheers,
Eratin"


Comments to follow!
« Last Edit: 16 May 2009, 21:26:33 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #1 on: 04 April 2008, 04:04:31 »

Well, this is a tough decision here of course...  cool I'm already feeling guilty that you spend so much time with the picture with lots of different versions, Eratin. I had a look at the first four versions, and somehow you always make it appear completely different compared to the last version... lol

The second pic, the newer approach, looks somewhat more menacing, darker for sure, and brings the wind element in nicely with these leaves that swirl around and the waterfalls that look more dangerous.

The first one doesn't have that much dynamic from the wind, but it could be added in the same way I guess. The scene of the first one however fits the Windsinger idea better methinks, as it means that the elf communicated with nature that way, and in the second picture the emphasis seems to be more on the darker side of nature. I really love that scenery in the background of the first one, so if I'd really have to make a choice, I'd still go for the first one personally. The leaves are a great idea, so I would suggest to integrate that there.

Though there are still two things that are still not addressed ideally in the first picture:

- The Windsinger still is positioned too far to the left - this is much better in the second picture! Doesn't need to be moved that far to the right, but somewhat. A possibility would also be to add a bit more scenary to the right by expanding the picture.

- While this of course is a perspective thing, the arms in the first picture still look too short and the pose could suggest a bit that she's screaming (elfy scream queen?  huh). Moving the hands a bit further away from the body should add to a more relaxed pose as well. Should be more of an embrace of nature...

I googled around a bit to find some pictures that show a bit what I mean compared to your versions, Eratin. Look here:



or here:



(you can enlarge this one by clicking on it)

Get the idea?

Anyway, I guess we should focus on one version, as you seem to tend to get a bit distracted, eh?  grin I guess all the versions you do bring something new and exciting to the picture, but it gets a bit difficult to manage all the ideas, so we should aim to focus on one final picture soon, I'd say ;)
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #2 on: 04 April 2008, 09:47:30 »

Ohhhh....they're lovely, Eratin!

I must say though, that I like the second one better--the nature element seems to be more natural, more chaotic there, with the whirling leaves.  In the first one the wind does not seems to be affecting anything but the singer herself, whereas in the second it is a stronger element.

The body of the first one is more detailed--you can see it outlined through her clothing by the wind very clearly, where the second is a bit fuzzier, almost "out-of focus" looking, especially at the legs.  But I love her face, hair, and the positioning of the arms and hands.  Also the fact, as Art mentioned, that she is not at the exact center of the picture but off to one side, thus making us more aware of the environment around her and what effect she is having on it.

Well, that's my two sans worth.  They are both beautiful.  Perhaps when we do choose one for the entry, we could use the other somewhere--maybe in Santhworld?  As a scene in Nepris, or even a painting in a the Lorehold?  Just a thought.

Alysse
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #3 on: 04 April 2008, 09:51:25 »

It's rare that I disagree with Artimidor, I know, ;)   but I have to express a strong preference for the second.

The composition is much more powerful: the way her body is posed against the rocks rather than continuing the long pillar (which is sort of Dr. Seuss in the first one), the leaves, draperies and waterfall all conveying that powerful push and tug of wind, and the storm itself in the background haze!   

I love the colour harmonies: yes, it's darker and moodier, but somehow expresses a stronger sense of both hope and control, with the beautiful light coming on her face and the pure blue showing more contrast in the sky.

I do prefer the straight leg pose rather than the suggestion of a bent knee in the second - can't tell you why except that perhaps it distracts from the sense of concentration in her body. 

Marvelous work already ('thumbnail', yeah, right!  I wish mine looked that good when completed!) and will be spectacular when completed.

Idea:  Do you have the background scenery, which Art likes so much, as a separate layer for number one?  It is sufficiently different from the second, especially with the figure and pillar removed, that it could be used as a landscape illustration for one of our major rivers.  Goodness knows we are short of landscape/place pictures - with only a bit more work on crispness and detail we'd have a lovely 'calendar shot' from the first illustration!    Just a thought, but I know *I* would write the place entry if need be... :)
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« Reply #4 on: 04 April 2008, 09:51:56 »

(giggles)  Alysse beat me to it, and as usual.... great minds think alike....
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #5 on: 04 April 2008, 19:31:31 »

Well, it's difficult as I said... Maybe I'm influenced by the fact that the first picture is already more elaborated than the second one, and that I think that key things are still missing in it - but that adding/adjusting these key things is less work than continuing with the second one.

The first one definitely has less wind in it than the second one, but that's why I stressed that something to strengthen the wind idea needs to be still done. And the central position hurts the pic somewhat. The fact that the clothes reach much further down at the second one looks great as well BTW, this adds even more motion.

Straight leg: Position is pretty fine in the first one I'd say. The arms are still off in both versions for me, though.

The first one however has much more nature in it, the Windsinger is out in the open, while in the second one she looks to be in a much more secure place, despite the darker theme in general. She seems more timid as well judged by the position of her legs, this doesn't fit to a Windsinger, the first picture shows this much better in the body language already. Adding a bit more action and drama to the first one remains my recommendation, though.
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #6 on: 06 April 2008, 03:11:55 »

New version from Eratin:



Yep, I think this looks closest to the vision I had :) We have the positiion of the figure now, the arms are fine as well, the wind is now more doninant (maybe a few more leaves or wind-beaten winds somewhere could still be added), and with the added waterfalls in the background we have a lot more nature in the picture. :D If you can make it a tad darker (closer to the other one) that wouldn't hurt either. Some darker stuff (bush to the right e.g.) has disappeared from this version, shouldn't get too bright if possible. At least it's somewhat stormy around here. - But yes, I'd say let's finish this one now!  thumbup
« Last Edit: 06 April 2008, 03:15:39 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #7 on: 06 April 2008, 13:03:21 »

I'd still like to ask for the background of whichever doesn't get used.... :) we SO need more landscapes to create the 'feel' of our world!
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« Reply #8 on: 06 April 2008, 15:27:57 »

Well, this is a paid commission, so I can't ask for the double work (finishing two backgrounds) for the same money, you know.
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« Reply #9 on: 07 April 2008, 10:41:58 »

Ulp!   Well, that does make a difference.  And yes, he who pays the piper calls the tune, so if you like #1 better, I guess that's what we are getting.  (pouts briefly)

  I do think the backgrounds are already as dramatic and elaborate as some we have up - if Eratin is willing to throw in the 'unfinished' #2 at the 'thumbnail' size it is above, I can certainly think of a place entry for it....   wouldn't you want another illustrated entry? (bats eyes)
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« Reply #10 on: 08 April 2008, 03:15:04 »

Some additional news from Eratin:

"I noticed Bard Judith has an eye on the background of the second version, and I would like her to know that I am completing that painting for my own edification and pleasure, and will send her the background then."

:) Still I'm already feeling guilty to keep Eratin so busy with the Windsinger for years now as he has to do so many changes and extra work... At any rate: Thanks for that, Eratin! We can always use some landscape illustrations. For entries, and for Santhworld we will be able to crop various smaller pieces out of a larger one and make a really cool walkable environment as well!
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« Reply #11 on: 08 April 2008, 16:55:10 »

(kisses Eratin gleefully and dances around the room)
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« Reply #12 on: 11 April 2008, 20:03:09 »

Both lovely pictures. As Judy I like the second one better and I think this is because of the dark bush to the left side- it makes it a bit more dramatically. Maybe Eratin could add something like this to the first picture as well, doesn't have to be as prominent like on this one.
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« Reply #13 on: 24 April 2008, 04:22:18 »

Latest mail with Windsinger version from Eratin!

"Arty,

I increased the value range, toned down the bright colors (now the light helps express the kind of high energy weather day I was looking for) and , for good measure, flipped her one more time, he he. I think it is easier to have empathy for her when she is faced right. Dunno why, except maybe its related to our reading pics from left to right. I put her out on a ledge, so as to have her as close as possible to   "in" the air and wind, almost as if she is floating.

Let me know what you think, and I will put the final 12.457834% left into it (some highlights on the waterfall's edge, cleanup. and a few refinements throughout)!

Eratin"


(click on image to enlarge)



Ok, my comments:

Flipping the pic this way is fine with me, the darker colours also add to the overall effect. So we're clearly getting there :)

What's still missing in this version (removed from last one) is a kind of bush/tree that demonstrates how fierce the wind blows. What works best here is some kind of stuff you have in the other flipped version where the elf is standing that way as well. Some kind of tree in the elf's background which bends into the picture...

A bit strange to me is as well the position where the elven lady now has a belt of sorts, which seems way too far up. She also seems somewhat taller (or thinner) compared to the previous versions, maybe the belt position throws the body proportions a bit off. But I have the strange feeling that her lower leg is shorter than it should be, especially as the thigh seems to be pretty lengthy. - Don't you think so as well? I guess the lower leg should be a bit longer, thus making the thigh shorter - and with the belt a bit down this should look better. What do you think?

So yes, we're getting there, slowly but surely!  thumbup
« Last Edit: 24 April 2008, 04:24:47 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #14 on: 30 April 2008, 05:51:59 »

This version has a much more relaxed feeling to it.... very peaceful. I like that. I think the feeling is very naturish in this version and it suits the character very well.

As Art had mentioned, maybe some bush or shrubbery on the left side can attest to more of the power being invoked by her. You don't get as much of a  feeling of wind power as in the 2nd and 3rd versions.

With the water, if I am seeing it correctly, I notice that there is a further waterfall on the lower portion of the piece. It was somewhat difficult for me to initially make it out and I had originally assumed it was a weird reflection off of the sky. Maybe more accent on the dropoff point would make it more prominent as I think it is a great concept to have in the background.

Beatiful painting. I think it's great grin.
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