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Author Topic: Sanguian Masterplan Discussion and Signup  (Read 16249 times)
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Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« on: 18 July 2008, 04:51:54 »

Please, feel free to talk about anything Sanguia-related here.
« Last Edit: 18 July 2008, 05:11:01 by Nsikigan Ho'Tonanese Yourth » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 18 July 2008, 04:58:19 »

Quote
Dru- Interesting!

You say that New Santhala should be a key part of development-- I think it should be a starting point. We should develope that city, and build out from there.

So, I of course ran a search, and was rather surprised to find that there are not many references out there for New Santhala. Many of them seem to be related to climate. Maybe I'll take the easy (hard?) job and do that section of the entry.  :D

Overall, I'd say lets go for it. I'm very busy at the moment with about 8 entries for manthria, but when I finish those, I might take a greater part in this. :)

Good luck!

PS: Maybe not the team forums, but Nsiki, maybe you and Grun could make a Sanguian Masterplan together. If you need an extra writing arm just lemme know. ;)
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Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

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« Reply #2 on: 18 July 2008, 04:58:50 »

Maybe I'm just biased, but I think it would be best to start on a masterplan first, so we know how everything fits together, before starting on individual cities like New Santhala. 
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Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
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« Reply #3 on: 18 July 2008, 05:10:41 »

Alright.....
So, now all we need to do is decide where we need to start, figure out which entries have references to Sanguia/New-Santhala in them, etc....
Actually, that's still quite a bit. All right, let's at least get a sign-up sheet going. Anyone who wants to help, sign below.


Nsikigan "Rocksilk" Yourth
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Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

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« Reply #4 on: 18 July 2008, 05:16:42 »

Saw this in the main thread:
Quote
Is the duchy New-Santhala in owned by the King, or is New-Santhala it's own duchy, like D.C.?
Good question.  I don't recall this having been addressed before.  The closest I think was that Sanguia was ruled by the Santhran, but through a Thane, who was known as the Steward, or something like that.  So my guess would be that the duchy New Santhala is in is probably owned by the Santhran, but run by either the Thane or someone appointed by him, while the Santhran takes care of kingdom-level stuff. 
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« Reply #5 on: 18 July 2008, 05:38:07 »

Nice.
So.
Where do we start?
And thank you very much Mina, perhaps we should start by outlining the duchies in Sanguia?
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

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« Reply #6 on: 18 July 2008, 08:25:48 »

Sounds good. We need to blow up that section of the map from the santharia one and work with it. Then we can move on from there.

Btw, Nsiki, have you seen this?

Might be worthwhile to check out, unless you already have. You could be way ahead of me.  ;)
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The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach,
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.


-Bob Dylan "Mr. Tambourine Man"
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« Reply #7 on: 18 July 2008, 09:47:05 »

Thanks Dru! I've skimmed it, but haven't rally sat down and read it. And I will get right on blowing up the Sanguia map!
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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #8 on: 18 July 2008, 15:47:55 »

You started a great project here, Nsiki, I hope, that it is not too big for you! (Now)

Insert:*Cold shower comming*

I would recommend very much to gather more information first yourself and not to wait, till other people come and do it for you. You wrote, that you will check later, what for entries are reserved - why have you not done this immediately and added it to the list? I know, because setting up the other stuff was more challenging. But the little unpopular details are those things which are important and are those who require the time.

If somebody sets up such a project I would like to see him more informed about what is going on in general in this area. For example, that Rookie is already writing on the council tree. Have you asked, if she might want to do the vale of the Brownies, before you set it up to claim for anybody? Things like that.

I would strongly recommend to take New Santhala out of this masterplan (though it is of course connected with the area), for it is an own project in itself. Many people have had ideas already, like Judy and I, surely Art, others as well. There are discussions already in the forum which should be searched and considered. (E.G: Judy and me already have clear visions about some buildings like the great library which harbours the Compendium and a couple of museums with adjacent botanical gardens including  zoos. There is already something mentioned e.g. in the Draardle entry).

In addition, as Art said already, many of the main developers interested in this area (New Santhala) like Judy, Mina, Grunoc, me, are busy currently and it is not a good idea to start too many topics which will migrate down the board, uncommented, unfinished, nearly forgotten. It ill be frustrating for you, if you do not get much response, not out of interest, but lack of time.

Climate and alsetism and the  topics Judy brought forward need attention, the already installed masterplans like the "How much do  things cost in Santharia" are still in work and need attention as well.

So I would dearly recommend to stay away from big projects for now, but concentrate on getting something done and up, Nsiki. I know, that was a cold shower for you and I apologise for not being able to say it more polite, but that's the fact. I had as much ideas as you and started with a lot as well, thought I had to have my fingers everywhere, but this prevents you to actually get things done eventually. I do need my time for submissions, they need to ripen in a way, but now I try to focus on only a few things and get them on the site and finished. If the project New Santhala would be started now, I could not be part of it and that I would hate. 



Nsiki, what about commenting other works, doing an uri now and then? I have seen, that you had a few good ideas for Azhira and the Kaaer religion, but I can't remember having sen an uri from you.

The Blood Dealers are waiting dearly for a thorough check by somebody, e.g. ....

Don't be disencouraged now, I love to see your engagement, but I see it vanishing as well, if you do not the response you need.. :)
« Last Edit: 18 July 2008, 15:50:05 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: 18 July 2008, 18:52:15 »

Why is my masterwork topic up under “Needing a Revision”?  I would have thought it was pretty obvious that it was getting a revision and wasn’t available for other people to claim. And I’m not sure why you’ve put “Note Rookie’s Masterwork” under Vale of the Brownies either.  Did you think I was writing the Vale of Brownies and not the Council Tree?  This type of thing does not exactly inspire confidence.

Also, don’t you need the backing and support of a fair amount of the team before launching into a huge project like this?  What about the support of people working in the area? I have to completely agree with what Talia says above, pretty much to the letter.

On the other hand, why don’t we set up some sort of group of people who are working in Sanguia?  I would be happy to extend my knowledge a bit outside the Vale if it meant we could combine our efforts a little and share our research.  We could get some lists of plants and animals which live there (I already have some for the Vale), possibly sort out a regional climate map once the other one is sorted, organise some trading routes and provide some expert knowledge on the area if anyone needed it.  It wouldn’t be a masterplan as such, but just developing and sharing resources for everyone to use.  Plus, working with others always helps enthusiasm!

P.S.  Also, the Vale of the Brownies is not completely unentried – there is an unfinished Greybark work here which should probably be taken into account.
« Last Edit: 18 July 2008, 18:56:04 by Rookie Brownbark » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: 18 July 2008, 21:23:02 »

I think Rookie and Talia bring up some good points Nsiki. This could too much right now.

Rookie, I (we) apologize for having the Vale and the Council Tree marked as needing revision, but Nsiki and I did talk about it last night (my time) and I suspect he just hadn't marked it down yet, that you're doing them.

An idea that could solve problems: I just noticed, the manthrian map actually extends into sanguia! Perhaps the thing to do, Nsiki, is to a) work on the climate and trade routes like Rookie suggested, but also to start filling in some of the border entries for the area, atleast the ones on the Manthrian map. You could even write a few mini descriptions for the area, which could move things along.

Just my two sans. I definitely see where Talia/Rookie are coming from, and perhaps this needs, eg. a year to make some major progress on Manthria and other areas so that we would have a more active group getting involved.
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Then take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind,
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves,
The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach,
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.


-Bob Dylan "Mr. Tambourine Man"
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« Reply #11 on: 18 July 2008, 22:24:34 »

Hmmm, could be.  I guess the phrase  “OMGosh I was away for one night and suddenly there are huge plans for the area I’m working in and I wasn’t even given time to discuss what we should do” preeeetty much sums up my feelings.  I would really love to do some sort of collaborated effort in Sanguia, but I’m not sure about actually making it a Masterplan.  That suggests filling in every tiny hole – every plant, every beast etc etc.  I would personally rather just work together a bit more, maybe sort out some of the big entries together too, that would be great fun.  What do you think?

Also, I just wanted to pop in and say I probably won’t be able to get online this weekend as my home internet is not working and we can’t get hold of the guy who looks after it (insert huge grumble and possibly a vicious stabbing here).   Would it be possible to wait on any huge decisions for a couple of days?  If we do decide to do something (and again, I would really be interested in helping if I could – hence the “we” ;)) then wouldn’t it be a good idea to decide exactly what we are doing, how much detail we want to go into etc etc? And give the rest of the team a chance to give their thoughts too?
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« Reply #12 on: 18 July 2008, 23:13:47 »

Quote
“OMGosh I was away for one night and suddenly there are huge plans for the area I’m working in and I wasn’t even given time to discuss what we should do”

An understandable feeling, but that's why this is still up for discussion. Nsiki hasn't filled in anything like, eg. Mira's drifting woods plan in his Dev schedule, he has simply proposed the idea of doing something like that.

Quote
If we do decide to do something (and again, I would really be interested in helping if I could – hence the “we” ) then wouldn’t it be a good idea to decide exactly what we are doing, how much detail we want to go into etc etc? And give the rest of the team a chance to give their thoughts too?

Again, that's why this thread is here. I hope, and I believe Nsiki will agree with me, that the general and basic, jumpstart planning that he did last night was not meant to be an end to all discussion. No one has said that the rest of the team can't imput things, and if this project needs to slow down it can. I just feel that we can't be frustrated with Nsiki for jumpstarting a project with some outlining that would have to be done eventually anyway.

Quote
I would personally rather just work together a bit more, maybe sort out some of the big entries together too, that would be great fun.  What do you think?

Sounds good, but some organization on that front, even if in the end we don't call it a masterplan, can't hurt can it? Atleast just defining what entries are major, what needs to be done, etc.

Quote
Would it be possible to wait on any huge decisions for a couple of days?

Because you are of course very involved in the region with the brownies Rookie, I think it is more than reasonable to postpone anything of the kind without you atleast being able to participate. I think it is impossible to say that discussion over this, and possibly some basic map/climate/trade route stuff will not be atleast talked through over the next few days, but it would be foolishness on the part of anyone to attempt to finalize such things without you. :) We neeeeeeed you Rookie! *Insert very echoey voice here*

All in all, what I hear being said is that we need to slow this down, and that is not unreasonable. May I just point out though, for those who haven't seen, that Arti knows and has not forbid such a project. In fact, a case could be made that he is comfortable with Nsiki perhaps taking a stab at such a thing.
See Here, a couple posts back.

Hope you get the internet problem straightened out Rookie, cause I've been there and I empathize...  hug *sings* It's a hard knock life, for us er... without the internet. :D
« Last Edit: 18 July 2008, 23:19:05 by Drúadan » Logged

Then take me disappearin' through the smoke rings of my mind,
Down the foggy ruins of time, far past the frozen leaves,
The haunted, frightened trees, out to the windy beach,
Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow.
Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free,
Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands,
With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves,
Let me forget about today until tomorrow.


-Bob Dylan "Mr. Tambourine Man"
Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth
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« Reply #13 on: 18 July 2008, 23:46:59 »

First of all, thank you, Dru.
Second of all, let me clear up some misconceptions.
Quote
I would recommend very much to gather more information first yourself and not to wait, till other people come and do it for you. You wrote, that you will check later, what for entries are reserved - why have you not done this immediately and added it to the list? I know, because setting up the other stuff was more challenging. But the little unpopular details are those things which are important and are those who require the time.
There you go, Tal, you answered your own question, and it seems I have a MASSIVE misconception to clear up here. Nothing has been truly launched. The foundations have been built, and this masterplan is only a convienent name. I am not demanding a team, I am not demanding attention, I am simply setting up guidelines for a very important region.
Talia, the time will go into this, but it will happen when I have the time, and last night I was a bit busy getting the foundations set. But the details will happen.

Quote
If somebody sets up such a project I would like to see him more informed about what is going on in general in this area. For example, that Rookie is already writing on the council tree. Have you asked, if she might want to do the vale of the Brownies, before you set it up to claim for anybody? Things like that.
I never set any entries "up for grabs". I only posted a do-to list, with this disclaimer attached-
Quote
Please keep in mind, there may be errors in the above list.
I have not integrated which entries have already been reserved, though it is my intention to do so.
Also, IT IS NOT A DEFINITIVE LIST, and especially the Needs Revision section is up for discussion.

Now, onto New-Santhala. This indeed, after a PM I received from Grun, seems like a project that can wait. I now perhaps see New-Santhala not as a starting point, but as a keystone, an entry that will act as the final touch, but one that we must keep in mind as we develop Sanguia.
It can wait.

Quote
I was away for one night and suddenly there are huge plans for the area I’m working in and I wasn’t even given time to discuss what we should do”
You DO have a say, Brownie, that's what this forum is for. NOTHING is final, besides the fact that I will try to get those not-aligned with Mantharia to help develop the empty holes in Sanguia.

Quote
That suggests filling in every tiny hole – every plant, every beast etc etc.
I answer this with a quote from Art.
Quote
A Master Plan definitely is NOT a mere endless list of all possible kinds of places, beasts or plants etc. of a region, which need to be elaborated. If a place, a beast, a plant is not of central importance for the whole region, then it musn't be part of the Master Plan. DMP lists should be precise, clear and the amounts of entry suggestions for one plan should be limited by design. Adjustments (expansions and corrections) are possible, but plans deal with the minimum that has to be designed for a part of the project, not the maximum.

And that answers that.

Quote
I would personally rather just work together a bit more, maybe sort out some of the big entries together too, that would be great fun.  What do you think?
A standing ovation, and a yes, please.

Quote
Would it be possible to wait on any huge decisions for a couple of days?

Because you are of course very involved in the region with the brownies Rookie, I think it is more than reasonable to postpone anything of the kind without you atleast being able to participate. I think it is impossible to say that discussion over this, and possibly some basic map/climate/trade route stuff will not be atleast talked through over the next few days, but it would be foolishness on the part of anyone to attempt to finalize such things without you. :) We neeeeeeed you Rookie! *Insert very echoey voice here*
I second this, and I'll be the echoey voice.
Also, if you want, I can put you down for the Vale for some time in the distant future.

Quote
In fact, a case could be made that he is comfortable with Nsiki perhaps taking a stab at such a thing.
I lakka dat case.
Quote
Nsiki, what about commenting other works, doing an uri now and then? I have seen, that you had a few good ideas for Azhira and the Kaaer religion, but I can't remember having sen an uri from you.

The Blood Dealers are waiting dearly for a thorough check by somebody, e.g. ....
I've done Uris!  angry
Not recently, most have been on the RP board, but I'm starting to get more active in commenting, and of course, any entry put forward as part of this plan will receive constant commentary from me. I'm ready to rise to challenge, if you (anyone!) are. (is.)

I hope I've answered your questions, Tal and Rookie, and clarified things for everyone.
Once again, thank you Dru, you can be my Ambassador when I take over Santha-
I've said too much.





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Nsikigan Yourth, Eyelian extraordinare.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. - The Dark Knight

Wisdom begins in wonder. ~ Socrates

A government in which the majority rule in all cases cannot be based on justice, even as far as men understand it- HD Thoreau
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« Reply #14 on: 19 July 2008, 00:05:09 »

The Uris on the RPG board don't count here, Nsiki.
And:

Quote
Also, if you want, I can put you down for the Vale for some time in the distant future.

Are you now the one to assign entries? I don't think, Rookie has to ask you....

Don't understand me wrong, Nsiki, what you did last night was surely a help for further developement, but maybe you should have talked to more people who deal with this area (I'm not speaking of me), before you went so firmly forward.

As I told you so often, start a bit smaller, do some good entries and then people will listen more willingly .
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