* 
Welcome Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?


*
gfxgfx Home Forum Help Search Login Register   gfxgfx
gfx gfx
gfx
Pages: [1] 2
Print
Author Topic: Krean Arcane Arts: Overview  (Read 8274 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« on: 09 September 2008, 05:50:01 »

(1) Entry = an overview of Krean magic; long and needs careful reading but hopefully everything is explained logically and step by step. So the text should not be too challenging.

In particular: I tried to make it accessible by keeping only the central explanation in the body of the text and delegating all my asides to the footnotes. At the risk of labouring some points, I wrote an exceedingly step-by-step explanation of the concept, followed by examples/anologies. The tone itself is somewhat academical. As I worked on the entry, I tried to imagine how fe a legal scholar would write an article. Therefore, I hope the result is easier to follow than its predecessors!

In Microsoft Word format as I unfortunately do not have the time to convert the diagrams, footnotes and colours into board coding.

(2) I still need to address Fox's comments (see below)

Status on Comments:

Talia's:
- No 1: done
- No 2: done
- No 3: done? (pdf file)

Fox's:
- still working on it

(3) Atm footnotes are excessive. They will be removed: some will be converted into separate entries, leaving only the essential and short references here. I've already started the process; see: Olesian Obstruction & Ardelor Hypothesis


Done. Final version! Hurray!
« Last Edit: 04 April 2009, 22:09:03 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: 09 September 2008, 05:50:31 »

Please find the entries enclosed (FINAL VERSIONS):

« Last Edit: 16 September 2008, 05:04:03 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: 09 September 2008, 05:56:47 »

Fox's comments

(emphasis added)


Okay.

I've taken a look at it and for the most part I really like it. Cross-referencing other magic systems IE Ximax gives it some weight, albeit I think you should also look at the Ximax interpretation of Clerical magic, which is very much what this sounds like... IE, the will to believe in the possibility of something's existence, causing it to exist, and with said belief being able to exert raw/elemental magic as well. As in, indirectly causing the structure of something to form by the imagination of the end result (see Viresse's old Clerical magic entry)-- by concentrating on the possibilities. "You don't concentrate on achieving something special with your mind, but affect your whole surroundings so that certain things become possible." So overall I'd recommend cross-referencing the Ximaxian viewpoint of Clerical magic as well for the whole of your system, as, again, it follows that style very closely--essentially, the Ximaxian idea of how Clerical magic works is, in essence, Magic Persuasion as your system elaborates.

By this same concept, you could also extrapolate on the power of will in relation to your system. IE, what happens when two magi try and cast spells that directly counter the other's concept of reality? Do either spells get through? Does the person with the strongest will force reality to coincide with their possibility and thus completely countereffect the other mage's spell? Do both cast and reality attempts to get the closest approximation that works for both magi's possibilities? Etc. What about non-magi? If they truly believe that what the mage is doing can't possibly be real, does reality prevent the effect from occuring, or does it happen at a reduced effect to be more believable by the wider range of people present?

Another concept to discuss: Is Krean magic metamagic? In other words, can it perform all range of spells regardless of element, form, aura, etc? I assume that it is, though it may be prudent to dictate that in the piece. Also, does Krean magic, at least on the theoretical level rather than the cultural, acknowledge Car'all? It hints that you must know the structure of how magic works before you can use the idea of choice to make the effects, but what exactly is the structure that Krean recognizes? You go heavily into will to change the possible outcome of reality, which, again, is similar to the idea of faith-based magic according to Ximax, but you don't describe what the mechanical structures are that accomplish this 'in the background'. Do the Kreans have knowledge of what the process really is? Or do they just will the possibility and it works naturally? Or does each different Krean culture have their own idea of the mechanics behind their own cultural magic?

What I actually didn't like, was all the footnotes. I know you were trying to keep them out of the main piece so it would be easier to follow, but generally having more than 1 or 2 footnotes per page is often way overdone. You also have to remind yourself how this would look on an on-site entry-- while a few paragraphs of footnotes per page might seem manageable on Word, on site you'd actually have all the footnotes in a single spot, which would result in an extremely large footnote section (like, at least enough to fill a whole screen). No single entry on-site should have more than 3 to 4 paragraph length footnotes, and even that might be pushing it. This makes it more confusing to follow than if you had included the notes in the main body.

I'd recommend one of two things. Either work down the footnotes and incorporate the most important bits into the main body, either directly on location or by making more sections of the piece with which to elaborate completely on footnote elements, or expand on each footnote and make new entries, with the main entry then linking to said other pages.


Overall I really liked it and there's not too much I can say. It's very indepth and very well written. :)





Coren's status-report:
(1) Footnotes fixed.
(2) Clerical comparison + metamagic question to be addressed elsewhere, later.
« Last Edit: 12 September 2008, 17:31:35 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #3 on: 09 September 2008, 06:27:59 »

Here are the files you requested to have uploaded, Coren:

The Krean Arcane Arts (Word 97-2003 compatible).doc
The Ardelor Hypothesis.docx
The Krean Arcane Arts.docx
The Olesian Obstruction.docx
Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: 09 September 2008, 15:38:35 »

Thanks Arti!

@everyone: Oh, I just realized that the Word 97/2003 edition is not up to date. Please use the "docx" version instead.
« Last Edit: 09 September 2008, 15:43:59 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Falethas Whisperwind
Newbie
*

Gained Aura: 8
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 356


Master of the Endless Winds


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: 10 September 2008, 10:10:45 »

Is there any way that the treatises could be posted as Word 97/2003 documents? The most recent version isn't compatible with my computer, so I can't read the papers.  :(

If not, does anyone know of any way I can convert them?
Logged

Epthaeranté á sáh pheranía sáh alyría; ahmantát naithím sá sae'llán styaeyías.
"The rain whispers down through the trees; elvish music will rise in answer."
Bard Judith
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 365
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 7.650


Dwarvenmistress


View Profile Homepage
« Reply #6 on: 10 September 2008, 12:45:51 »

You can go to the Microsoft site and download the compatibility patch, actually.... :)

Google "office 2003 2007 compatibility" and you'll get several links and options.  Choose any of the microsoft sites and you can follow the walkthrough.

I have the same problem but it's 15 minutes before class, so not now! :P
Logged

"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: 12 September 2008, 17:25:16 »

(1) Final edits done. There are a couple of coloured sections which do not ring true, but I can no longer fix them. Too much exposure to the entry :P Smoothing those over in a uri would be much appreciated!

(2) Footnotes CONSIDERABLY shortened.

(3) Artimidor will place the new documents in the post above, replacing the older version (Krean Arcane Arts >>> Krean Arcane Arts (Final Version)). I have also included a Word 2003/97 version for those who cannot open docx format. Thanks again Arti!

Fire away!

:) :) :)
« Last Edit: 12 September 2008, 17:30:17 by Coren FrozenZephyr » Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Artimidor Federkiel
Administrator
*****

Gained Aura: 538
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 23.091



View Profile Homepage
« Reply #8 on: 16 September 2008, 03:31:33 »

The files

The Krean Arcane Arts (Word 97-2003 compatible).doc
The Krean Arcane Arts.docx

have now been substituted with new versions! Same link as above. :)
Logged



"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: 17 September 2008, 00:21:20 »

Ighh, it seems I scared people away for good the last time I posted anything related to Krean magic. 10 days and no comments... :sobs:
Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Azhira Styralias
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 132
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 2.774


Mód’dél’áey


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: 17 September 2008, 01:32:05 »

I tried to read the arcane arts document...but to be honest, it was quite deep and waaaaay over my head. It's like Ximaxian magic, existentialism and relativism all rolled into one...

I couldn't tell you if it was accurate, or even remotely fantastical realistic...

lol

 noidea
Logged

No, I would not want to live in a world without dragons, as I would not want to live in a world without magic, for that is a world without mystery, and that is a world without faith. And that, I fear, for any reasoning, conscious being, would be the cruelest trick of all.
Decipher Ziron
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 55
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2.574


General Genius of Remarkable Modesty


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: 17 September 2008, 04:28:20 »

Despite the Olesian Obstruction etc. it would seem (from my perception) that Krean have the aptitude to do physically anything....
Logged

Laugh ,and the World Laughs with you.

Weep, and you weep alone.
Coren FrozenZephyr
Moderator
****

Gained Aura: 157
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3.357



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: 17 September 2008, 04:42:30 »

The same is true for Ximaxian magic: theoretically anything is possible, as everything has a carall and magic is the manipulation of such carallia but there are practical limitations. Likewise for the Ancient Krean. Firstly, the more ambitious the effects the harder it is to pull off the spell. Secondly, the fact that something is theoretically possible does not mean that mages actually know how to do it.
Logged

"Everything should be as simple as possible and not simpler." Albert Einstein

"Is he allowed to do that?"
"I think that comes under the rule of Quia Ego Sic Dico."
"Yes, what does that mean?"
"'Because I say so', I think."
"That doesn't sound like much of a rule!"
"Actually, it's the only one he needs." (Making Money by Terry Pratchett)
Mina
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.833



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: 17 September 2008, 19:45:50 »

Coren, you are crazy.   :P 

This is the sort of entry I hope to be able to write one day, though I doubt I could ever manage it.  Well, anyway, I have no classes next week, so assuming projects and other homework don't take up too much time I'll probably read it then.  It should be quite interesting. 
Logged

Mina
Santh. Member
***

Gained Aura: 63
Offline Offline

Posts: 2.833



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: 30 September 2008, 22:51:45 »

Well, I did read it on sunday, but then I got busy and couldn't comment. 

Going by what I remember, it was pretty good, and I don't think there were really any problems aside from it being somewhat repetitive.  This was especially obvious in the Olesian Obstruction and Ardelor Hypothesis entries, large parts of which seemed to be repeating what was written in the Arcane Arts entry.  But I suppose a compromise was needed between writing full entries for them and having overly long footnotes. 

One thing I'm not very sure about is how Magic Mechanical works.  If I understand it correctly, a practioner of Magic Persuasive describes one version of reality, and 'persuades' the First Wave to accept it?  That seems to leave Magic Mechanical with actively altering reality much like Ximaxians do?  But that feels rather more forceful than what the Kreans seem, to me, to be comfortable with. 
Logged

Pages: [1] 2
Print
Jump to:  

Recent
[27 March 2019, 00:01:57]

[21 June 2018, 14:28:00]

[31 May 2017, 06:35:55]

[06 May 2017, 05:27:04]

[03 April 2017, 01:15:03]

[26 March 2017, 12:48:25]

[15 March 2017, 02:23:07]

[15 March 2017, 02:20:28]

[15 March 2017, 02:17:52]

[14 March 2017, 20:23:43]

[06 February 2017, 04:53:35]

[31 January 2017, 08:45:52]

[15 December 2016, 15:50:49]

[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

[27 October 2016, 07:42:01]

[27 September 2016, 18:51:05]

[11 September 2016, 23:17:33]

[11 September 2016, 23:15:27]

[11 September 2016, 22:58:56]

[03 September 2016, 22:22:23]
Members
Total Members: 1019
Latest: lolanixon
Stats
Total Posts: 144586
Total Topics: 11052
Online Today: 46
Online Ever: 700
(23 January 2020, 20:05:39)
Users Online
Users: 0
Guests: 48
Total: 48

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia
Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream
gfx
gfxgfx gfxgfx