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Author Topic: The War of the Chosen (fact finding thread)  (Read 14444 times)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #30 on: 24 July 2009, 05:42:36 »

@Talia: We've said it all along that we need to develop as if Gods don't necessarily exist. That's the premise to allow multiple belief systems.
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #31 on: 24 July 2009, 06:24:19 »

Oh, I was not suggesting a "hereditary only" system, Art.  Only that it could be viewed as such by the Witches.  That, like a recessive gene in some people where only when propogation with another carrier of the recessive gene brings out the ailment, the witches are trying to influence where and how these avatars are brought out.  Whether they can or cannot is almost irrelevant to the belief that they can.

What the Witches could believe is:

Johnny Rotten was a black avatar... so he has 100% blood
his children 50%
Grandcildren 25%
Great grand kiddies 12.5%
etc etc


So, Mabel Melovent has 6%... breed her to Alec Antagonistic who has 10%
Their children now have 8%  if they can find another carrier, say Timothy Tantrum, who has 14% they can breed an 11% child.. and so on and so on...


So, you see, the hereditary system is very hard to create an avatar.  Would take many generations and careful records (which is where the Chroniclers come in), and in truth, one could never create a 100% avatar... so, that final element, must come from the gods themselves... the Witches are only improving the chances.. buying more lottery tickets in a way... but the the avatar could come from anywhere....

This would completely vex the Witches, forcing them to reexamine all their records and figure out what they missed and where.

Like I have stated though... the Witches may or may not have any actual relevance to the avatars showing up... but they believe that they do... therefore they keep trying...

That said, it would be nice if they could have a couple of avatars over the years that they can claim was the result of their actions, whether this is truth or simply coincidence, or even something the Witches have molded to show their power... as in, they manipulated the marriage of Mabel and Timothy, and their child was supposed to be a minor 11% carrier of the blood, but this child grew to be an avatar... simply a coincidence... but the Witches would not see it as thus... they would see it as a result of their influence and the fact that it should not have happened then was simply a mistake in the geneaology.

As well, I would like an evil tyrant avatar that can be blamed on the Witches that led to their loss of their high place in society and the turn to a more secret cult... again... lets not let the facts stand in the way of perception.... they can be blamed for a Hitler, even if the truth of it is, they did not create him....

Hope this is somewhat clearer... :)
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« Reply #32 on: 24 July 2009, 06:46:53 »

Something came to me this morning that I thought was interesting and might in some way be of help/interest with this.

The Exemplars were a group of eight villains in the Marvel Comics series ... the most famous of them is Juggernaut, who was in the 3rd X-Men movie. In any case, there were these eight beings who left behind items (each one with alliteration in the name) that contained a small figment of their powers. The first human who would touch each one ... would take on those powers and transform into avatars of said beings. They would then create some kind of device and they would fight it out to see which one of them was the greatest.

In any case, I thought that was interesting and might be of some use/interest with regards to the War of the Chosen.

Another thing is in the Raymond E Feist set of books, in which some of the characters - Nakor and Ralan Bek amongst them - had slivers of gods in them. Not sure if that is of help here or not, but once again thought it was an interesting thing to point out.

Anyway, there you go :D
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #33 on: 24 July 2009, 07:33:51 »



@ Art:

Quote
@Talia: We've said it all along that we need to develop as if Gods don't necessarily exist. That's the premise to allow multiple belief systems.

We agreed - back then -  that we do not say, that they exist, but neither, that they don't exist. But if they have left (from developers point), they don't exist as a fact, for there is not even the possibility of their existence in the world nor the chance of them acting in the world. 

From developer's point, their existence could still be unknown: The elves believe, that they are gone, the humans not. That would leave all options open.

But if you want to have no gods, so just say so, I don't care if they are still here or not nor if they did ever exist. What Takór will write is another chapter...  grin
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #34 on: 24 July 2009, 14:34:54 »

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From developer's point, their existence could still be unknown: The elves believe, that they are gone, the humans not. That would leave all options open.]From developer's point, their existence could still be unknown: The elves believe, that they are gone, the humans not. That would leave all options open.

Exactly. I didn't say that they don't exist - I said "we need to develop as if Gods don't necessarily exist". All options open.
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« Reply #35 on: 25 July 2009, 02:59:02 »

@Altario: If the witches want to believe that, well ok, but with all those calculations and gene stuff, examing records etc. this doesn't sound that fantasy-like to me personally. That's why I'd strongly recommend to go for pure avatars and much easier to follow rules on how they "travel throughout the centuries". But anything witches want to believe and is described in a more fantasy fashion that doesn't remind too much of gene pools, could work parallel to the main concept (which is pretty much a background myth anyway).

@Seeker: Rewriting the War of the Chosen so that it is somewhat consistent can't be done without casualties of existing stuff which might need to be altered. Though we need to find that point to sort that out and make the differences between e.g. elven and human mythology clear - and there needs to be a big difference. I'm trying to finally address that in the process of rewriting the War of the Chosen, as we've tarried too long on the issue. Now would be the time, or more clearly: Now or never, because if we don't do it we will just develop along in a certain mishmash of mythology and never get anywhere with larger concepts. Some things will have to redefined, no doubt about it.

And yes, there are lots of stories on how the Gods interacted with each other. Many of them I'd attribute to human mythology. Note as well that the Gods walked on Caelereth in both, human and elven, myths, teaching the Children. They also left the world in both mythologies as far as I know, retreating what the humans might call "heaven", only their general role, relationships to each other and their interference with the world and their mingling in all things "wordly" is interpreted entirely differently by the races. At least that's the idea.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #36 on: 25 July 2009, 04:48:05 »



Altario, let's see, how the witches evolve, I never know, what the result of an entry will be, for so many things come to my mind along the way. Dig them out and then we will see, from where we can start and where we will go. In the end there might be something you find even more fantastic than the idea you have now in your head.

Elves: I agree, that we need a totally different race, not humans with pointed ears, so let us find the differences!

Gods in human myths: we have already a lot of myths which tell us that the gods act like humans (not elves) in some stories, but I would like to have the Santharian not "too" "human", so that we can have a difference to the icetribe gods also.
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« Reply #37 on: 25 July 2009, 12:57:47 »

I know I am over my head when Art responds to my entry and I don't even understand how it relates to what I wrote.   :D Yep I think I'll gracefully sit this one out and see what develops, I just don't have enough experience here to understand what is going on.  I am very interested to see how it turns out though. thumbup  
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« Reply #38 on: 25 July 2009, 16:30:05 »

Menemronn was now added in the information collection post on page 1 of this thread, along with further players of the Battle of Winds, Yairok, Coulande and Dra'va'ensle. At the bottom there's now a small summary on the Battle of Winds as well. Names definitely will have to change as well, especially if they are only mentioned once or twice without any concrete ideas on what they actually stand for.
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« Reply #39 on: 25 July 2009, 20:20:34 »

Hey Art, reading through this I had a quick question: Who is the avatar of Urtengor?

This is very interesting, Art, I look forward to what you come up with.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #40 on: 25 July 2009, 20:41:58 »

That's new, your formulation of the Battle of Winds? It is so hard sometimes to find stuff *sigh*

'electrical charge' is too modern

The new Chosens are newly invented, right?

« Last Edit: 25 July 2009, 20:45:02 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: 25 July 2009, 21:16:48 »

No, nothing new here. The Battle of Winds stuff has mainly been gathered from a short summary by Drogo in the Library (see here).

@Morden: No information added yet who is the avatar for which God, and I guess there's nothing been specified on Urtengor so far. Still collecting information. Then this all has to be reviewed and thought through etc. Will last quite a while till anything gets on site.
« Last Edit: 25 July 2009, 21:18:31 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #42 on: 25 July 2009, 22:45:08 »

That's strange, I did not find it on the first two search pages this morning. Now, that I gave in "Of the Battle.. " I found it, and just "Battle of... " as well.  huh   veryconfused

Quote
Rumors of Eckra's coming flew ahead of his army. Reports soon reached the white archmages Coulande in the south and Dra'va'ensle, the half-elven, in the west. Messengers raced between the two kingdoms, and it was decided to join together to combat Eckra.

So I could eventually claim Coulande for me? Hmm, but I might need a bad one as well, or at least one that stays and causes disaster, may it be out of evil intends or just bad luck , an unhappy event, or a drama like situation.

Should the disaster then take place at the same time as in the North?

And what is the "west"? Ximax or Nybelmar?
« Last Edit: 25 July 2009, 22:51:16 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged

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« Reply #43 on: 25 July 2009, 23:23:25 »

You find it as the first entry if you use "battle of winds" with the apostrophe and the option "all search words".

The directions most likely refer to the "Peninsula Dinal" (which is actually "Kr'uul" where Eckra's Forbidden Zone lies), west of Eight Winds Bay. So they are all northern Sarvonian guys I assume. At least they were intended to be. Concerning dates: It is only important that the War of the Chosen (in Sarvonia) officially ended with Ma'asherom, ca. 9000. When a demise of another Chosen happens isn't that important right now, it needs to happen between 9500 and 9000 and it needs to be brought into context when the timeline is defined.
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« Reply #44 on: 26 July 2009, 00:13:41 »

I see, I didn't use the apostrophes, thought the searchengine wold work the way that it shows the most likely combination (what would be battle of winds with both words in the header).

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