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Author Topic: Eight Winds Bay (Masterwork)  (Read 29475 times)
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #105 on: 02 February 2011, 06:49:23 »

Actually ... there is, Artimidor ... I described the size of the three islands in the entry as you requested, Artimidor. I was told not to say how many peds/strals they were by you and Talia, but to say how many days it would take for people to sail around the islands.

If it is one of the 'absolute basics' that a places entry must have, perhaps the template should specify that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it isn't indicated anywhere in the entry template for places entry that distances are needed ... so maybe something that is an 'absolute basic' in such entries should be in the template? Or, at the very least spelled out explicitly in the template.

So, I suppose you could take this as a correction. :)

Dek
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« Reply #106 on: 03 February 2011, 00:59:02 »

See, it's not as complicated as you might think, Dek.

I just assume that if you're talking about something gigantic, it needs to be made clear that it is. The Overview is the place where it should be clear right off the bat if you're talking about a village size bay or a bay that stretches over hundreds of strals. Same thing with beasts e.g.: If you're talking about an elephant, you need to make a reference that it's big, or people might think it's teddy bear size. Especially at such large regions it's not important that you get the sizes exactly, but that you make clear that it is enormously large.

This can be done in a simple sentence that gives the reader a rough estimation and puts everything instantly in perspective. Like:

Quote
The gigantic Eight Winds Bay is located on the western coastline of northern Sarvonia, just north of the lands of the Kuglimz and the Prominent Mountains, stretching nearly 500 strals until the Shadowlands, the offshoots of the Imlith Mountains.

There you go, simple as that. Ideally that part should also be found under Location. With the distance examples Talia posted (e.g. Worldquest - Elindor ---> 520 strals) you can deduce the size of the whole bay very easily. You don't need to be a scientist for that ;)
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« Reply #107 on: 03 February 2011, 04:02:00 »

See, it's not as complicated as you might think, Dek.

If not, why wasn't it made simple for me to understand in the first place?

I just assume that if you're talking about something gigantic, it needs to be made clear that it is. The Overview is the place where it should be clear right off the bat if you're talking about a village size bay or a bay that stretches over hundreds of strals. Same thing with beasts e.g.: If you're talking about an elephant, you need to make a reference that it's big, or people might think it's teddy bear size. Especially at such large regions it's not important that you get the sizes exactly, but that you make clear that it is enormously large.

One would assume that most people would get an idea that it is huge by looking at the map. Or would that be a wrong assumption? And why would people think that an elephant is teddy bear sized? Our frame of reference for elephants is that they are large animals. If someone was making an elephant that was teddy bear sized ... I'd expect that the person doing the entry would say it was teddy bear sized. After all, previously, when I did explain things that were common to earth things in my kyrattin and paxen entries, I was told that those things were common to such animals on earth, and there was no need to rehash them, that we could assume that people know those sorts of things about them.

Coming from such an assumption, I think it would be reasonable to assume that a common frame of reference for people when talking about water features in a bay that it would be extremely unlikely it would be a bathroom tool. Or can't we use the advice given by the moderators of one forum into similar things in other forums?

This can be done in a simple sentence that gives the reader a rough estimation and puts everything instantly in perspective. Like:

Quote
The gigantic Eight Winds Bay is located on the western coastline of northern Sarvonia, just north of the lands of the Kuglimz and the Prominent Mountains, stretching nearly 500 strals until the Shadowlands, the offshoots of the Imlith Mountains.

Yes, that is straight forward to use, and thank you for that. I guess my question would be. why wouldn't a suggestion like that have been made in the first instance by you? Instead of all the comments about not having to be a mathematician to work it out etc etc etc htat you've made previously in this thread? I also hope that, having been told previously to steer away from using distances in the entry, and instead to talk about things like how long it would take people to go around the islands, that I'm not now going to be told to "tell us how many days it'll take people to go around the bay, Dek, don't tell us distances".

There you go, simple as that. Ideally that part should also be found under Location. With the distance examples Talia posted (e.g. Worldquest - Elindor ---> 520 strals) you can deduce the size of the whole bay very easily. You don't need to be a scientist for that ;)

She also advised NOT to use the distances ... which is why I didn't. :) Would you also be able to address those points I raised in my previous post, particularly about the template not mentioning anywhere in it the need to mention distances or sizes in such entries, as opposed to, for example the herbarium and bestiary templates? Both of which specifically say to mention sizes.
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« Reply #108 on: 03 February 2011, 06:17:12 »

Now one could discuss endlessly why three words are missing in an entry. I'm sorry, but I don't have that intention. I've already mentioned this issue double and trice, and that's where I'll leave it. Remember: Readers need to go with what you write, you cannot assume that a map will be displayed in the entry, nor that people know what a Santharian elephant looks like. Overviews of entries can be grabbed from an entry and placed in Overview pages, thus it is especially important that all the key information is in there.

And in general it helps to follow the advice of the Places Mod to get a Places entry swiftly approved. Size can be mentioned in the template, yup, that's a good point, will be added!

Oh, and I'd like to check the entry, and am planning to get to it tomorrow.
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« Reply #109 on: 03 February 2011, 07:22:21 »

I personally would prefer not to have to use numbers in place's entries such as this one. (I have not used any in the Rahaz-Dath entry nor the Aj'Nuvic grounds. To say, the Norong'Sorno is eleven thousand peds high is an unproven guess also.) If you describe a house, or palace, you can walk along, but you can't  measure a bay like this by riding around it. Even shipping along the coast and determining the length of it this way might be difficult due to the different weather conditions.

It is not important to know, if we have here near 400, near 500 or near 600 strals. I would prefer to express it in terms of how long people need to get from one place to the next and then maybe add an assumption about the length , where it fits.

Like this:

The gigantic Eight Winds Bay is located on the western coastline of Northern Sarvonia, just north of the lands of the Kuglimz and the Prominent Mountains.  Ships  need at least xx weeks to travel  along the northen coast(s), but only if the weather is fine for a period of time. In winter the same voyage can take months, if it is not impossible at all

Here I have much more information.

Under location there could be a guess about the size, in strals.

I looked at some places entries and found the Ancythrian Sea, here we have measurements:

Quote
From north to south the sea measures around 420 strals  and has around 260 strals  of maximum width measured from east to west.

But frankly, I don't know, if this makes sense. Around 420 strals - around 400 would be better. For, who did those measurements? Does a society as ours need them or use them? Would not be the flair much more mediaval if we do not use numbers?

Here in Southern Sarvonia it makes more sense though, there might have been Caelosophs who have actually measured the size of the Ancythrian Sea with their methods. But would it not make more sense to say, a fast boat needs xx days/hours to cross it where..  (or even an example of somebody who did it) to cross that sea?
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« Reply #110 on: 03 February 2011, 11:05:22 »

I have always attempted to follow your advice, Artimidor. It doesn't make it easy for me to do when it appears that the advice changes from one time you've given me the advice to the next time. If I'm not understanding what you're wanting me to do, maybe it needs to be explained again until I understand it.

So please, tell me in a simple sentence what you want me to do.

Is something along the lines of what Ta'lia suggested in her reply what you were meaning?
The gigantic Eight Winds Bay is located on the western coastline of Northern Sarvonia, just north of the lands of the Kuglimz and the Prominent Mountains.  Ships  need at least xx weeks to travel  along the northen coast(s), but only if the weather is fine for a period of time. In winter the same voyage can take months, if it is not impossible at all

If so, simply giving an example of what you were meaning, such as you did with regards to the use of the words gigantic etc would have been an easier thing to do.
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« Reply #111 on: 04 February 2011, 04:32:21 »

Ok, here come comments, Dek!

Overview.

- Size: Well, any kind of means to make clear what size we're talking about is welcome. Omitting it is the problem, as you'll have no reference whatsoever then.

I've given you my version of what I think is best, Talia has given her preference. For me it makes more sense in this context to just state (maybe with an "approximately" added to the "400/500 strals"), because that's definitely what even medieval people can measure to a very rough degree. The height of a mountain however can't be done by medieval means. Putting in a very rough number has the advantage that people can get the idea practically instantly, while describing it exclusively by ship routes (and then compare summer and winter) makes it unnecessarily complicated for me. Good as an addition to get the full picture (say, in the Location section), but it doesn't really help a reader who's looking for a rough orientation that much.

- Chosen: Give a brief indicator what the Chosen are when you first mention them. You have to assume readers have no idea what you're talking about, and thus won't understand it.

- Artyrhón: As the bay stretches over nearly 500 strals - it is important to know where they live. It's at the isles as far as I can see and the eastern coast of the Peninsula of Kr'uul. Make that clear in the Overview.

- Translations/Names: If you use names/translations, make sure to use quotation marks as is standard throughout the site. Like: Artyrhón elves (lit. "Blessed Sea Elves") or ...known to the Artyrhón as "Tuu'marásh"... or ...known to the Artyrhón as "Syéth'maría" etc. Don't use double brackets like "(Styrash, (Lit. "Big Island"))".

- Blue Druids who study the perpetually active maelstrom which is at the heart of the bay...

- Northern Sarvonia BTW is used throughout as a proper name and therefore should always be written with captial letters: "Northern Sarvonia".

Description.

- Tuu'marásh: You should at least briefly mention speculations on the cause of the maelstrom in the Description section. It is just taken for granted here. A few words on that suffice, then you can point the reader to the Myth/Lore section to get more details.

- Island sizes: Well, as I said. You can make it easier for the reader, or tough. And mention the distance between Silven and Adlin only by describing how long it takes to travel on foot. So what about on horse? huh Strals were invented to make things easier in this regard.

- Galnós'chrónn: When you mention Ryart Lvardin and Silvern for the very first time you just assume that everyone knows where they can be found. You do that at various instances throughout the entry. Once again: You always have to assume that the reader has practically no information whatsoever on the topic and therefore you need to provide additional information where these locations can be found. Better too much extra information that leave the reader guessing. If you mention something for the first time, you need to be there explaining, guiding the reader.

- "Kurakum" should be "Kurakim"

- Tunnels: I'm not sure reading the description from where to where exactly these tunnels lead, and where Rat Brownies live. You could be a tad more specific here, like giving locations of entry and exit point, or even name them.

- "chai" should be "chá" I guess.

Location.

People.

- To fix:
Quote
In the caverns branching from the underground waterways beneath the Prominent Mountains--the waterways linking the Eight Winds Bay to the Luquador River--lives a tribe of Rat Brownies...

Traders travelling north or south through these caverns have often spoken of seeing 'beady eyes peering at them' on their journey either to to the Kuglimz or the Artyrhón.

- Kurakim, caption should be Kurakim Dwarves, especially if you have no secondary name as is the case with the other tribes.

- In the long run a tribe map would be good to have for this region to get a better idea with a single glance at it. No priority now, but would help piecing things together who lives where with what consequences etc.

- The People section is rather clear and straight to the point, that's good. Provides a very nice overview in this regard, the Description part isn't so clear what lies where and how large it is etc. This section however is well structured and described.  thumbup

Coat of Arms.

- To fix:
Quote
Each of these groups was originally of the Injerin but had split away from that tribe

- You mention the coat of arms of the Lost Ones: "a sea blue background with three waves on it" and then the Water Druid sign "consisting of three curves depicting waves". Aren't these coat of arms rather similar?

-------------

Ok, so much for now, Dek... Entry has developed nicely, with a few things here and there as mentioned, but basically it is really well done. It gathered a lot of detail and depth over time and forms a much more complete picture than at the very beginning :) - Looking forward to read the next sections, in the meantime see what you can do here and we should get the last touches done in no time! :D - Aura +1 so far for the whole effort!
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« Reply #112 on: 04 February 2011, 06:02:29 »

Dek, I don't want to clutter your thread, but I think it is not worth to open a new thread

@ Art:

Please, I don't want to argue with you here, but I have to give advice when I finish/rework the distances thread, so we have to come to an agreement.

You are the places mod, so you have the say anyway  grin

But please: 'five hundred strals' , not 500 strals

Quote
I've given you my version of what I think is best, Talia has given her preference. For me it makes more sense in this context to just state (maybe with an "approximately" added to the "400/500 strals"), because that's definitely what even medieval people can measure to a very rough degree. The height of a mountain however can't be done by medieval means. Putting in a very rough number has the advantage that people can get the idea practically instantly, while describing it exclusively by ship routes (and then compare summer and winter) makes it unnecessarily complicated for me. Good as an addition to get the full picture (say, in the Location section), but it doesn't really help a reader who's looking for a rough orientation that much.

'Approximately' sounds somehow better than 'near', but well, I have no idea how it sounds in English ears.

You are of course right, if you say, that a (modern) reader 'can get the idea practically instantly'. But, at what are we aiming here - at a medieval look of the entry, or an easy to get info for a  reader of  today? I agree, that probably the even medieval people could measure 500 strals to a very rough degree, but did they really do it so far in the North, far away of the culture of central Santharia? Who was interested in it? And if they were not, how could the Santharian researcher know it? gueass, deduce from info he got about how long ships need to travel from A to B? Then you better say, the bay is 300 to 500 strals long ;)

I assume, you want to have some uniformity in the entries, but I would not welcome it, if we have to put down measurements in every entry in the overview, even if they are rough. Does it really matter, if I know, that the Bay is 300, 400, or 500 strals, as long as I know, that it is 'gigantic'? I can find out more by reading on or looking on the map.

Well, my opinion only  grin

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« Reply #113 on: 04 February 2011, 06:12:15 »

Addition: Found just this

Quote
It takes approximately two days to travel on foot between these two port towns
(Dek)
Quote

- Island sizes: Well, as I said. You can make it easier for the reader, or tough. And mention the distance between Silven and Adlin only by describing how long it takes to travel on foot. So what about on horse?  Strals were invented to make things easier in this regard.
(Art)

I think, that in this case, strals might work, but the information you get when using the time you need by foot (or horse) carries much more information, for it depends on the area how fast you can travel.

Why not have here all three?

The porttowns are xxx strals apart, the fasted way to cover this distance by fine weather is with a 'riding animal' and takes zzz days, but normally the people walk and it takes them yy days to get from one town to the next. Better formulated however :)

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« Reply #114 on: 04 February 2011, 11:01:37 »

Thank you Ta'lia and Artimidor for your continued help with this entry. I know I don't always express it as such but all in all I do appreciate it. I get confused about things when they don't seem clear to me or they appear to be contradictory, either to other advice I receive, what's already on site, or what's in the templates.

Now, I haven't been through the entry as yet and considered all the changes you've suggested, Artimidor, however, there were some things that I can see that I will address.

(1) Distance between Silvern and Adlin

Let me address the travelling between those two cities. My reading/understanding of that part of the coast of the Peninsula of Kru'ul (POK) from the POK and Blessed Sea Elf (BSE) entries suggest that part of the coastline is rather rocky. I would think as a result there wouldn't be much point/need for the time taken for horses to travel the distance between Silvern and Adlin to be included on horse ... as it would be much the same as on foot ... so maybe, something like,

"due to the rocky nature of the eastern coastline of the peninsula of Kru'ul, the trip between Silvern and Adlin is rarely taken on horseback or cart, as too much time would be taken to move the horse around and on the rocky and uneven ground. Using horses or most other beasts of burden would therefore take approximately two days to travel between Silvern and Adlin, the same amount of time to make the trip on foot. The boats that make this regular voyage up and down the coast travel this same distance in under 4 hours during summer, autumn and spring seasons and in six months during the first and the last months of winter. During <winter month two>, the ice in the water is deemed too dangerous for the boats to make these trips, and, as a result, they are stopped for the month."

I think that with their focus on boats, that travel by horse/other riding animals would not be a common occurrence for them. I think that if they were a human tribe, they'd be more likely to seek to build the roads etc and make it possible for horses to travel there easily, but as their focus is on the boats, and as they are elves (who I kind of always associate with being environmentalists) they'd be more likely to leave the natural wilderness how it is.

2) Distances in General
Artimidar, I don't really feel comfortable with distances as such, mainly because I look at it, I see the size of it, I try to use the measurements, and I can't get it The cyclone that went through north Queensland, for example, they said how many kms across it was ... it meant nothing to me. They then showed pictures of it with those line graph things that meteorologists love ... it still meant nothing to me. Then, they showed a picture of it super imposed over the USA. At its height, it was as wide east to west as the mainland of the US (basically the USA without Alaska and Hawaii), at that point, I thought ... WOW, that is massive.

I can see a benefit in saying that the ships would take this many days to get between two places, but I think stylistically and the way I think of things that being enormous or whatever, or how many days it would take to do something. Would doing that be enough, Artimidor? Or would you like me to try to work out areas or whatever as well? or, can I just say approximately five hundred strals east to west and leave it at that?

About the islands ... what else would you suggest I put into it? Are you meaning distances in strals or something? I thought saying how many days it would take to sail/walk around the island was what was preferable to saying distances.

3) Translations/names
Oh, thanks for that , Artimidor... I thought I saw things the way I was doing them somewhere as well ... maybe I'm thinking of the thread of language additions or something ... but I'll change it, same with Dwarfs as part of the name of that tribe, and Northern.

4) Tunnels
I described that in greater detail in an earlier version of this and removed it at Rayne's suggestion. I'll put it back in and see what you think. :)

5) Coat of Arms
That was something that struck me as well. There was a discussion earlier in this thread between myself, Rayne and Azhira (maybe others) about the coat of arms for the BSEs. The BSE entry just said they had two groups that formed and became one, one being the Folkmore, with the other group being unnamed, Azhira, said it could be the Lost Ones. The Coats of Arms as I described them are basically what the entries for the Lost Ones/BSEs and Blue Druids said about their coats of arms. so ... I'm happy to change ... lets say the Lost Ones one to something else ... I think that might be easier than trying to change the Blue Druids one. But Azhira would have to have some say in that, perhaps?

I'll try to find the relevant posts and put a link to them.

Now, I intend to put all of this additional stuff in ... I just wanted to explain the way I was thinking with regards to it. My attention of late has been on the weather here (the floods then the cyclone), my lack of work (I'm now attempting new approaches, but I've now been about 9 months without a decent paycheque) and the health of my uncle - he has really gone down hill of late, and associated family stresses around each of those things.

So, I intend to make your corrections, Artimidor in a day, but i didn't want you to think I was ignoring them. The rest of what you say, I also agree with, i just wanted to explain my thinking/reasoning behind those items and hopefully asked for your thoughts on what I was asking.

Finally an Aura for the two of you for taking the time to be so patient with me.

Dek
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« Reply #115 on: 04 February 2011, 14:11:10 »

I hope you guys can get all this technical stuff figured out because I have had my party clothes on for quite some time and they are beginning to chafe.  shocked

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« Reply #116 on: 09 February 2011, 05:08:27 »

Ok, on with some more comments:

Climate.

- Well, due to the fact that we still have the maelstrom and weather effects, we could be a tad more precise here - all this isn't only the "result of the powers unleashed by the four Chosen who battled there", it looks like these powers are still active! Haven't read your Myth/Lore section yet, but this would be something to consider, I'd say, and cause a lot of speculation. Whatever is down there in the sea - captured eternally? - still emanates this elemental, perpetual power. It looks like it must be a divine power, as it doesn't cease to drive the maelstrom, causes winds to blow etc. So you could mention something to that effect.

- To fix:
Quote
Any residents of the continent of Nybelmar who travel to Eight Winds Bay would notice a great difference between the climatic conditions of their homeland and those of Eight Winds Bay.

- Quios Shipping Guild: As far as I know they only operate the east side of Santharia/Sarvonia. But you can substitute the name to something else, guess it isn't important if it's the Quios Guild or another one, minor or larger.

Flora.

- Is fine as it is, though - as I said somewhere else already - I think it's highly likely that a place like this has a few very special plants growing somewhere which don't grow anywhere else due to the obvious magical influence at play here. However, more such details can always be added later, so it's fine for now I'd say. It's especially nicely structured again in sections, so it's easy to find everything one is looking for :)

Fauna.

- Is ok as well, here we also have the trolog that showed up in the Bestiary, a unique beast of Eight Winds Bay, that's good. The maelstrom of course would also be a great place to have monsters in that area (given we have magical influences) like giant kraken or creatures like that. There's still lots of room for anything of that sort - the waters are a bit tame still right now. Always good to have some sort of danger - the larger the area, the larger the threat could be. So if you'd throw in a mention or two of possible creatures that match these criteria, that wouldn't hurt - even if such a beast would be as elusive as the Loch Ness monster, there's great potential in having something like it around.

Resources.

- You mention salt harvested from "puér'echalonuá". Remember, this is the Styrásh term, humans (and this is a Santharian Compendium entry) would use the Tharian (English) term.

Quote
...and that without the protection that both provide, they would be easy prey to the tribes of orcs and dark elves of Northern Sarvonia or the pirates...

- The Dinali were a savage human tribe. Make sure to mention that detail.

- Dra'va'ensle Half Elven ("Half Elf" I assume you mean) and Coulande were Avatars of the White side, with other words: Chosen (see fact finding mission here). As was Eckra. I'd state all that in the section where you talk about Eckra when you mention their names. You mention that later, but until then it is not clear who they are. What a Chosen is should also be briefly made clear.

- To fix:
Quote
Despite numerous efforts to find this legendary blade, it remains undiscovered to this day.

- Ok, having reached the Myth/Lore section now: The thing I mentioned above could be woven in her perhaps. Speculation could run high on what's down there in the maelstrom, still endowed with the power to keep it going. Is one or more of the Chosen still alive in this wet grave and will one day break free from his prison? Is it divine irony that those who tried to become Gods are now trapped down there and have become part of the culture of the ones living above? Was a portal to the Netherworlds opened? Did some madmen try to get swallowed intentionally by the maelstrom, hoping to end up, well, who knows where? There could be whole sects seeking salvation through the maelstrom - because someone needs to be freed down there, someone powerful...

These are some interesting thoughts which might help to get even more mystery in this phenomenon. Everything that helps build a myth. I'd throw in one or two of such ingredients to spice it up a bit. :)

Okeydokey, but all in all this already thorough and satisfying. Maybe you can use a few of my ideas to round things up, and then we should be able to get it on site and make an official member out of you, Dek! :D

Another aura +1 for the continued effort!
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« Reply #117 on: 09 February 2011, 21:00:34 »

Thank you Artimidor.

I will attend to things hopefully this weekend. I do have some work related things to take care of first.

One of them is finalising accounts for dad's home based business. I've FINALLY got his Cash at Bank account to reconcile :) and after that it will be putting together a Balance Sheet for that one.

The second one is putting together a budget (start up and ongoing) for a business he is planning to start in a year or so. Putting together the formula for it etc is an interesting process. He's having a meeting with his business partner on Monday and so it needs to be ready (including sensitivity analysis) by then.

The third one are some applications I'm completing for work ... one is an IT Trainer position for a large Australian Law Firm. It is based in Brisbane, but travel around Australia will be needed. Another one is a designer of e-learning solutions based in Sydney. A third one is through a friend who works at a recruitment firm here in Brisbane ... he has asked me to send him my CV and to say what kind of work I am after so he can put it across the desks of relevant people within his firm.

So, yeah, I'm going to get to this and make the changes suggested, thank you once again for your time with this. Oh and an aura for you for your continued patience.

Dek
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Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #118 on: 23 February 2011, 05:19:46 »

Would the blue druids be likely to believe in the Chosen, and that some/all of the four chosen would be willingly/unwillingly trapped under Eight Winds Bay ...

My thinking goes along the lines of ... when the waters of the bay are deadly that the Eckra/other bad Chosen are stirring ... when the waters of the bay are not deadly, the two white Chosen are stirring/keeping the other two in check. Eckra/other bad Chosen unwillingly became trapped there ... trapped by the two white Chosen. The two badies then set the maelstrom in motion ... trying to make it too dangerous for anyone to go in there ... then the two white chosen willingly allowed themselves to be trapped there as well, so as to control the curse of the other two, and lessen it somewhat. Thus, their struggle continues, sometimes the white chosen are in control, and at other times the bad chosen are in control, and they are forced to struggle back and forth for ever.

From time to time, lesser nasties come by to try to free Eckra/the other big badie, but they fail, and it is believed that they two become trapped down there ... and at times the same thing happens to goodies.

Or would blue druids be more likely to believe in it being natural in origin, with maybe a sect/cult (perhaps my 'Daughters of Gouran') believing in the 'trapped Chosen and other powerful individuals' causing it all.

Dek
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #119 on: 23 February 2011, 06:02:46 »

Well, that's a good question.  grin

If we look at the Druids entry we read:

Quote
The druidic interpretation of the purpose of life, or their "religion" if you so want, is based on their belief in essences, the "souls which form the world". In this respect they are close to the elven point of view on the world, which is based on the cár'áll, the "auras" of everything existing - an indicator which suggests that the Druids might have their origins in elven nature preserving practices. Druids - quite similar to the elves - work their magic through these Essences, but are more focussed on their specific elements rather than on Styreian universality, which brings them actually closer to the Ximaxian approach, without the scholarly accentuation, that is.

So if we follow that the Druids might perhaps be more likely to see elemental forces at work here, which are not personified, the causes could be interpreted as natural by them. Thus the whole belief in the Chosen and individuals would be more a sect/cult thing, especially as speculation coming from folklore etc. feeds this theory. True druids might perhaps say that all these stories are more based on the imagination of people than in the real thing. At least that's my take on it.
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