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Author Topic: Do we know Yamalquain?  (Read 7300 times)
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« on: 09 December 2009, 01:12:48 »

Azhira has mentioned it in her Imp entry, not knowing about the restriction.

I would like have to have a clear guideline, how we should handle this and then written it down somewhere.

What I can remember is following and what I thought is valid:

Yamalquain is on the map, but as far as I know, there was a consent that there are only rumours about a land in the east. Rumours in the Stormcloak Guild, but  it is , especially the name, not (officially at least) known to the compendium. I know, the name is mentioned somewhere, either it is an old entry, or it slipped through. But I can recall very well, that e.g. Rayne was not allowed to place her Lingradau there. The intention was, NOT to predefine anything there, so that later developers have free hands. A rumour, that there is a land in the East, does not hurt, but saying an imp comes probably from there, hinting at the form of the landscape goes very far.

I would like to have a discussion, a decision,  a straight line how to handle this problem and once decided it should stay like this until Yamalquain is opened for development.

I offered Azhira already some other places for the imp. Note, it is not of importance, if the imp comes from there or not, but the knowledge about Yamalquain was so far  more or less nonexistent.


I personally would vote for not knowing it at all, but I'm happy, if there is a decision and it is clear, to what an extent it is known. (written down!)
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #1 on: 09 December 2009, 01:42:13 »

A search of integrated entries produced 21 entries mentioning Yamalquain, most of which are bestiary and herbarium. I know traditionally that Arti has said that Yamalquain is just a place holder and is not to be developed.

But that stance is no longer realistic. We have too many entries that mention Yamalquain by name, and with most of them having various beasts and plants there. Who discovered them? Someone had to have gone to Yamalquain at some point to be able to bring back information for the Compendium.

To say we can't or don't know of Yamalquain no longer applies anymore. No, it cannot become a place to do any full time development, but there is now known a little bit about it. At least my Imp entry is vague about Yamalquain and anything describing it is conjecture. If the Imp prefers high places to perch and likes trees, then one might assume that the native habitat is also that way.

We cannot go back and disregard all the entries that mention Yamalquain. We cannot go back and have them all revised. Its too late for that.

I will not revise my Imp entry to remove Yamalquain if 21 other entries mention it. That is not fair at all.
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #2 on: 09 December 2009, 01:50:40 »

It is not fair to those also who had to do it in the past.

Replacing it in your entry would just mean to use your editor and switch one word with another. Not much work at all. Maybe change east to south, two words. But, you are right, your stuff is more vague than having a pig or frog there. 

An option would be, to avoid it in future entries.

Basically I only want to have a decision, how to approach this in the future. A guideline!
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Rayne (Alr)
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« Reply #3 on: 09 December 2009, 02:41:19 »

Even after all these years, I still feel the burn of my slighted Yamalquain Twilight Lingra--so much beautiful potential lost.

However, I would not have others suffer the same! I would not have Azhira suffer, as I have, for my poor, lost feline. Let her have the reference!

And let my Twilight Lingra back into my Lingra entry!  :P
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« Reply #4 on: 09 December 2009, 03:23:00 »

As far as I can see the Imp entry doesn't put it as a fact that Imps are from Yamalquain, but that this is lore and this is a rumour. I personally have no problem with that whatsoever. It doesn't really say anything about this continent, and the whole rumours could be totally wrong as well.

As far as I can remember it has been basically your position, Talia, that nobody even knows the name "Yamalquain" to which I - as usual - objected, because in putting it on the world map (which has happened ages ago) that continent must be known at least by name.

I think it's pretty much a necessity from the development's point of view not to develop Yamalquain right now, simply because we have our hands full with enough continents already, so that it isn't even possible for Sarvonian experts to have an in-depth insight in Nybelmarian things. So opening up new continents for development isn't helpful.

On the other hand keeping Yamalquain open to accommodate rumours and lore in case it is kept to a minimum is fine with me, and I don't see a real breach of protocol in the Imp entry.

Twilight Lingra stuff is even more complex, unless it is kept strictly on rumour basis - if we don't want actual development in Yamalquain we should not go very far in what we reference and need to be very careful how we reference something there.
« Last Edit: 09 December 2009, 03:29:09 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #5 on: 09 December 2009, 03:27:27 »

I agree with Art on this.  By having it on the map, the name of the continent is known.  Though, has anyone ever been there?  Proven its existence? 

Much rumour can be attributed to it, but as far as hard facts go, that should be avoided.  Kind of like Atlantis. :)
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #6 on: 09 December 2009, 03:53:52 »

Quote
As far as I can remember it has been basically your position, Talia, that nobody even knows the name "Yamalquain" to which I - as usual - objected, because in putting it on the world map (which has happened ages ago) that continent must be known at least by name.

No, I don't think that is true. Because, back then, as one of your truest admirer I always only did what you wanted, tried to please you and tried to support you as much as possible. At least I always thought I would act in your fully interest and you have never told me otherwise. IF you would have opposed the idea to not know the name, I would not have favoured it, but accepted, as coming from you.   But the key is not the name. You said you don't want Yamalquain developed. No development means for me, that no beast, plant anything is put there. It is not necessary either to put more rumours in the world about it. I thought that is a clear thing. And  now I am scolded for having tried to realise your wishes.

I don't know, if those old thread could be found and if it is worth the time at all to look for it.

Basically I just wanted to have NOW a clear directive how to treat further submissions, clearer than only what was said here in this thread. But, I can of course just look away and we keep it as it is now, basically undecided how far this "not knowing" should go, an information not accessible even to older members like Alysse. That would be an option also, though surely not in the interest of the Dream. Well, maybe I see things the wrong way even here. Maybe I should really try to avoid pointing out  any problematic issues in the future, when I get nothing but a "Was your problem only anyway". Very encouraging.
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Rayne (Alr)
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« Reply #7 on: 09 December 2009, 04:06:58 »

No, I don't think that is true. Because, back then, as one of your truest admirer I always only did what you wanted, tried to please you and tried to support you as much as possible. At least I always thought I would act in your fully interest and you have never told me otherwise. IF you would have opposed the idea to not know the name, I would not have favoured it, but accepted, as coming from you.

I can back Talia up on this one. Talia has generally tried to remain true to your wishes 100%. While I, because I am terribly and frustratingly outspoken, have disagreed with many of your decisions, Talia has tried to remain true to them.

Quote
But the key is not the name. You said you don't want Yamalquain developed. No development means for me, that no beast, plant anything is put there. It is not necessary either to put more rumours in the world about it. I thought that is a clear thing. And  now I am scolded for having tried to realise your wishes.

I do remember the decision that Yamalquain should not be developed at all. Artimidor, perhaps it might be appropriate to note when circumstance allows some past decisions to be reconsidered or overturned? To make it more clear when we are revising previous decisions?
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #8 on: 09 December 2009, 04:11:09 »

I don't see any indication above from my side that I said that we should reconsider developping something in Yamalquain! Putting a single rumour up in an entry doesn't mean that anything's actually there that backs it up.
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« Reply #9 on: 09 December 2009, 04:16:57 »

I don't see any indication above from my side that I said that we should reconsider developping something in Yamalquain! Putting a single rumour up in an entry doesn't mean that anything's actually there that backs it up.

So let us make sure this decision is clear:
1) No specific development
2) Santharians know OF Yamalquain
3) Entries may include Yamalquain ONLY in terms of rumours, conjectures, speculation

Does this sum things up?
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #10 on: 09 December 2009, 04:21:33 »

Yep, that's at least how I'd put it as well. And as far as point 3) is concerned such rumours, conjectures, speculation shouldn't dominate entries, because that would actually enter point 1) territory. As a sideline reference that doesn't take center stage in an entry where it makes sense - why not?
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« Reply #11 on: 09 December 2009, 04:45:20 »

Quote
so that it isn't even possible for Sarvonian experts to have an in-depth insight in Nybelmarian things.

Trust me, the feeling is entirely mutual!

Anyway, Azhira, if you check the names of the authors on most of those entries, you'll see that they must be quite old indeed, and probably predate the closing of Yamalquain (Hell, most of them probably predate the abandoning of Sorren!)
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #12 on: 09 December 2009, 07:12:02 »

Talia, are you happy with Rayne's proposal?
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #13 on: 09 December 2009, 08:32:56 »

As I said, I'm happy if I know what is wished, regardless what it is.

Will it be written down in a place, where every newbie can find it?
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #14 on: 09 December 2009, 23:23:32 »

Maybe another section in the Developers 1x1? A guideline about developing other continents.
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