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Author Topic: Elven Occupations  (Read 12670 times)
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #15 on: 12 January 2010, 08:39:30 »

Ah! I think I mis-read. In any case, I have taken your advice and removed it. I would rather not delve too deeply into the philosophical reasons in an entry of this nature, but perhaps there is enough here to give a good idea of why they are rare.
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« Reply #16 on: 12 January 2010, 08:42:03 »

That works now! :)

Though you messed up a bit on your color coding. ;)

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #17 on: 12 January 2010, 08:44:56 »

Though you messed up a bit on your color coding. ;)

::changes:: I don't know what you're talking about. >.>''
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Deklitch Hardin
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« Reply #18 on: 14 January 2010, 13:46:23 »

Hi Rayne,

Just a quick question for you regarding part of your entry here. (I've cut out the text that wasn't part of my query.

Quote
Merchants/Traders: ... Even the shy Ylfferhim and Anthryón tribes employ merchants to share goods with the outside world.

From this sentence, it's sounding to me as though you are suggesting both of these tribes are shy. Yet, from the entry on the Anthryón, I found the following:

Quote
People: The Arthyrón are certainly one of the most odd elven tribes, if not the strangest. They are most assuredly the most curious. They have sailed rivers, oceans, hidden waterways, and rumours say even the great whirlpool in the middle of the Eight Winds Bay. Instead of disdaining, of pitying humans, they find them fascinating and enjoy their companionship. They have even been known to be feasted in the great stone halls of the Kuglimz'torik, or the simple tents of the Kuglimz'ura. They are also willing to trade with the orcs and dark elves of the region.

To me, this makes this tribe sound as though they are odd, strange, curious and brave, but not exactly shy.  cool

As I said, I'm not sure if your sentence was meaning that they were shy as well as the Ylfferhim, but that's how it sounded to me :D
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #19 on: 14 January 2010, 13:50:36 »

Ah! Thank you for finding this! I don't know why I had it in mind that they Anthryon were shy. In any case, I've flipped the two and kept the adjective with the Ylfferhim, so perhaps it makes more sense now.

You have such a good eye, Dek! Thank you again for catching that.  heart
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #20 on: 16 March 2010, 00:06:18 »

Hey Rayne,

If you ever get back to this, please clarify if elves can be "knights". We have some CDs on the RP side that are knights, as in they follow a code of conduct much like the human variations of Erpheronia. I don't see that elves have the cultural inclination or temperament to be knights. I think the idea sounds interesting, but in light of your developments here, I don't see an elven knight as a valid occupation choice.
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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #21 on: 16 March 2010, 03:21:16 »

I think, Azhira is right, if you are looking at it from a human 'knight' point of view. It is quite possible elves have a different perspective on knights :p
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #22 on: 17 March 2010, 02:51:03 »

The concept of the "knight" has yet to really be ironed out, but I agree. I think it's safe to assume that most things not included on the list probably don't exist as occupations (unless they're very minor).

The main issue I see with knights is that, when you get right down to it, knights use violence and power to solve problems. They carry swords, they wear armor, they ride on horseback (giving a significant advantage in battle), and they know how to fight. Besides "warriors," which I see as being fairly uncommon, I see elves as using magic and words to solve or avoid conflict.

Knights come from a philosophically inflexible backing. They arise out of orders, which generally have a fairly strict idea of right and wrong. Part of the knight job description is to ensure people act "right." This involves imposing morality on individuals who may not share the same philosophical/ethical framework. Very un-elven.

I hope this makes sense. Let me know if I can be of any further service. heart
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #23 on: 17 March 2010, 03:07:09 »

The elves have been involved in conflict and war since the time of Fá'áv'cál'âr, so would not it stand to reason that they would have a warrior sect that was akin to a "knight" or "knighthood"?  The race as a whole might tend to favour words and magic, but the practicality of it might be something they can't get away from.

Just an opinion.  I wouldn't completely take away the knight from elven society, and maybe even make it something that the elves see as a necessary evil.
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Azhira Styralias
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« Reply #24 on: 17 March 2010, 04:22:41 »

Elves can be warriors clad in armor (perhaps a special elven armor they make) but I don't see their culture following any kind of chivalric code or morals. If elves have their own version of knights, then they would have to distinctly separate from the human ones. And, not all elven tribes should even have them, depending on the tribal culture. Again, we try to force elves to become pointy eared humans and we have to get away from that.
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #25 on: 17 March 2010, 04:38:43 »

I'm not saying that.  I don't want elves to be pointy eared humans, and I like how Rayne is taking this.  She is making something very well thought out.  And following a chivalric code is not at all what I think they would follow.  They are greatly influenced by nature, thus a elven knight would have a different code (and don't say why would they follow a "code" as code only means rules or principles) that they would apply to this sect.  If one does exist.  
« Last Edit: 17 March 2010, 05:14:14 by Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin » Logged

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Kalína Dalá'isyrás
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« Reply #26 on: 17 March 2010, 04:40:53 »

Quote
The main issue I see with knights is that, when you get right down to it, knights use violence and power to solve problems.

I do not think this is a correct assumption. You are making Knights quite barbaric, which isn't what I had thought. Thinking about medieval knights is not something which we should probably do here. Knighthood is more of a perception on life, and not all knights would feel to use power and violence - a very Hollywoodistic boxed perception.

I never pictured Santharian knights like this, but more protectors and healers, much like what the White Knights were meant to be (I believe)  
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #27 on: 17 March 2010, 04:42:37 »

(Altario and Kalina have both posted while I wrote this, but I post it anyway:)

I agree - knighthood is much more a human thing that it is an elven one. There definitely are different tribes of elves, which might have their different interpretations on how to handle conflict, so it isn't entirely impossible that a knight-like structure can exist somewhere. This could be the case especially in more twisted elven tribes like at the dark elves, but even then the Eophyrhim are described as hunter-people, so their connection to nature is more important than a honour code. So the general elven credo is to stay out of conflict, this is one of their main principles in life, and this should be the dominating opinion throughout most elven tribes - the rest are more exceptions than the rule, I'd say.

With other words: What the elves see as their "knights" should be something that is quite distinct from human knights and follow mainly elven principles rather than human ones.
« Last Edit: 17 March 2010, 04:48:33 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #28 on: 17 March 2010, 04:46:03 »

Arti posted much more eloquently than I. :)
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Valan Nonesuch
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« Reply #29 on: 17 March 2010, 05:19:31 »

Knights come from a philosophically inflexible backing. They arise out of orders, which generally have a fairly strict idea of right and wrong. Part of the knight job description is to ensure people act "right." This involves imposing morality on individuals who may not share the same philosophical/ethical framework. Very un-elven.

While I seem to have missed the boat here, I would like to bring up that elves are as philosophically inflexible in some cases as humans. See the problem between wood elves and dark elves for instance. The Injerin (as I recall from the entry) don't get along with the Meladrhim because they don't follow the "battle lines" so to speak, as exactly as they do. They're certainly not perfect.
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