An Antislar Philosophy leading to Magic and Religion

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[Azhira Styralias]

My idea that it is localized stems from the fact that currently the magic concept cannot be explained. If you wish to create it using different forms of ounia/car'all, then that can be done. Simply use different names for the elven terms and the same effect. The concept of "magnetism" seemed like a natural phenomena to me that could be explained. If the magic comes from this phenomena, then you could conceive much lore around it.

The localization part is an idea from my Kaaer. Their "mythical" shape shifting abilities are localized to their homeland alone. Something about Durgho's influence is said to be most powerful in and around the Themed'lon. The Kaaer do not believe in, or know of, much of the world outside of Caaehl'heroth. They are pretty sheltered with their only real outsiders being a handful of tribes (Injerin, human, orc and Kurakim on occasion). Durgho is not really a god with influence all over the Disk. He is more of a powerful nature spirit with "roots" in the Themed'lon area. The farther one goes outside the homeland, the smaller and thinner the roots become eventually tapering off and ending. Thus, his "divine" influence is limited.

Ximaxian magic is everywhere, yes, and magi can tap into car'all everywhere. Life magic is similar in that it is an off-shoot of the elven system. Nybelmar stuff is in a world all its own and I can't begin to compare it to anything... In other words, my suggestion is to have the Antislar magic as a local power in order to explain it better. Or, you could have it off-shoot the Ximaxian system, in which case, an Antislar mage could cast anywhere. As it is now, I am at a loss how to describe Antislar magic in Ximaxian terms with the limited overview given. Another suggestion is to simply create their magic as clerical/divine rather than secular. As a primitive tribe, more or less, clerical magic is easier to integrate.

This is your tribe, so feel free to create however you wish. Please remember that I am attempting to work whatever you create into my Kaaer history. What I have now for the Kaaer no where near comes close to your concepts of Ava/Coor. Unless the Antislar splinter group in Anif split for religious reasons and created their own culture (rejecting the Ava stuff). Splinter groups separating due to differences of belief is not uncommon in the North (my Lost Ones cult being a good example). Ultimately, the Kaaer embraced an entirely new religion from their learnings of the old Lost Ones ruins in the Themed'lon, and the Drasil tree, so whatever the Antislar bring to the table may be irrelevant.

But please don't think I am wanting you to revolve your work around mine. But do be aware of the work I have done already and the inter-relations with the Kaaer that are being born. Somehow, everything needs to connect historically so a practical evolution of cultures can be seen over time...which, of course, you already have a grasp of.

Your Antislar work is incredibly exciting and I am enjoying helping create it. Tribe and culture creation is not easy and having help and encouragement is essential. I am not trying to stone wall you or anything. I am happy that the North has such serious, dedicated developers like us.

[Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin]

 Ok, I think I'm understanding you a bit better.

First, I will try to explain this magic.  Is it the terms I'm using that are confusing?  Instead of Ava and Coor, lets use two different terms; Black essense and White essense.  In nature, everything is a shade of grey.  There is a mixture of black and white in everything.  Water, stone, ice, people, birds, animals, everything.  White is attracted to black, but is repelled by white.  The same in reverse for black essense.  These two essenses are naturally occuring in everything, and not given by the Antislar god, just as Ounia and Carall are not given by gods but are naturally occuring in nature, in everything.  That is why a Ximaxian mage can come to Remusia and cast spells (should he be brave or dumb enough ) even though he be far from home and not dependant on a god to intervene.  But, I don't want to compare white and black essense to Ounia and Carall because that would be confusing until it has been established better.  As well, they don't behave the same.  So a Ximaxian mage would not be inherantly proficient with essense, and an Antislar mage would not comprehend Ximaxian magic.  (Kind of like us )

Now, let us say we have two like grey objects before us.  By concentrationg on the white essense in one of the two objects, I can move all the white essense in this grey object to one side of it.  In that one object, one side is now white, the other black with very little grey in the middle.  Now, I also concentrate on the second object, again seperating the shade of grey into a white side and a black side.  The white sides will repel each other, as will the black sides.  Just like N/N and S/S will repel each other in two magnets.  If I turn an object so that the white side of one is next to the black side of the other, the two objects will be attracted to each other.  By moving one object, I can move the other.  If they are attracted, then by pulling one object, the other will be dragged along.  If they are set white side to white side, I can push one object away by pushing the first object.  The better I am at seperating the white from the black essense, the stronger the attraction/repulsing force will be.  If I lose concentration, the white and black essenses in each object will return to normal; two grey objects that have no attraction or repulsion attributes.

Hopefully that explains the concept behind my magic.  We can limit the amount of objects one can concentrate on at one time, the size of the objects allowed to be manipulated, etc.  But, I think that one trained in this manipulation of essence could do this in Antislar, or in Voldar or in Strata.  However, in my last post, I explained how we could limit the amount of people trained in this magic.  Please, if you have further questions, I will try to answer them.  It really is all there in my mind.  Sometimes a canopener might be more efficient at getting it out.



As far as the Kaar go, the splinter group that left Antislar might have left for religious purposes, I'm sure we can figure out something that makes sense.  They may have lost the ability to manipulate essense over the years as well.  Maybe they decided it was more trouble than it was worth.  (Not unreasonable considering the wars between them and the Remusians and the Remusian focus on wiping out the magic users.  Magic made them a target.)  The further back in time we make this split, the easier it is to explain the differences.  And the Antislar, as Icefolk, adopted elven customs when they intagrated, so they might be conformists more so than many tribes, and took on more of the customs of the tribes they interacted with in Anif than what they contributed.

Here is an Aura point for being patient.  

EDIT: That's the last Aura point I can give you.  Otherwise you'll catch up.

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

White essence and black essence! Why didn't I think of that? Much better than me gabblling on about electrostatic repulsion and magnetism!

Just popped in to say that - I'll be off now *whistles*

Athviaro of the Cursed Name

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Ah, now I got it!

Just don't call it white and black, that is too limited, because you ignore all other colours.

Lets call it 'essence' for now, the Antislar might call it differently.

I would like to go back to Koraya, for you want to have the evil/good aspect in it, yes?

Koraya is everywhere, in everything. But it is something which is composed out of Kor(evil aspect) and Aya(good aspect). When it is in balance (which is normally the case), it is distributed everywhere evenly. AND, if it should not be the case, it will disperse again until it is mixed up properly again.

I'm aiming at the physical law which describes, that  everything will end in chaos at the end of time, that the 'order' in nature is a more unnatural state, than is chaos, and that you have to bring up energy to get in a more orderly state (darn, I learned about that stuff so long ago, that I nearly get it together correctly and having to tell it in English doesn't help either)

Let's try to explain it differently: If you have a box with a wall in the middle and you have air in one side and a vacuum in the other and you remove the wall, the air will distribute evenly. Same with salty and non-salty water. Etc.

So, some of your Antislar could be gifted in a way, that they have a sense to "see" Koraya , the mixture of Kor and Aya, and can force it apart. And then it has the repelling/attracting properties you describe. The balance (the amount of each) would not be disturbed, just the distribution altered. And, as I said, it goes back to normal, after the attention is elsewhere. Of course you could tweak a bit and have the speed how quickly it returns to normal be dependant on the skill or the user.

Permanent change would not be possible, unless you invent something additional, a kind of glue which holds the separated Koraya in its place, but I don't know, if that would be a good idea, for you have then ( more or less) pure evil and pure good in one place.

Hmmm..  could be an idea though for a pair of swords, one evil sword, one good sword...  that should be the exception though , very rare.

This Koraya-essence is of course present everwhere, but you need to be able to see it to be able to manipulate it. And only those with the genetic Antislar heritage can do it.

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

And only those with the genetic Antislar heritage can do it.

Why would that be? Say rather that only the Antislar have worked out how to do it, and will only train Antislar pupils, but why would their genes make a difference (unless they have been altered by the Mists or similar)? Then you have the restriction which is plausible, but not a restriction with no reason.

BTW, what is your first language?

and having to write it in English doesn't help

Just curious.

Athviaro

[Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin]

You do have it.  Woohoo.  (Good thinbg I never went in to teaching.  We'd have a generation of illiterate children )

And yes, this magic will have to follow the law of conservation of matter... neither added to nor destroyed.

Yes, we could have this ability a birthright and not a trainable skill.  That would keep the numbers low.  Could also explain why the Anif sect does not have any mages.  I would prefer it not be hereditary.  Just every once in awhile, a child is born special, where mom notices little jimmy's toys floating above the manger kinda thing.  So, bundle up the little bugger and ship him off the a mentor to be trained in this skill.

I suppose an artefact or two could have been created by a particularly gifted mage back in the annals of time.  But that level of the gift has never been seen since, nor were the instructions for doing so passed down hroughh the years.


Now, the end of the world:  Remember, this is only a belief and may or may not be true.  The consensus outside of Antislar will be that it is only myth.  For Devers, does it really matter?  Pretty sure Arti ain't gonna let me blow up Santh just to see if it comes back together again.

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Why would that be? Say rather that only the Antislar have worked out how to do it, and will only train Antislar pupils, but why would their genes make a difference (unless they have been altered by the Mists or similar)? Then you have the restriction which is plausible, but not a restriction with no reason.

Athviaro, why not? This is a restriction which is as plausible as any other. A tiny mutation in the gene of one Antislar ancestor, and you have it. It surfaces now and then, but even then, the will to concentrate, the stamina to focus on something is needed additionally, so not everyone with that gene would be able to use it.

That could also be the reason, why the Antislar cannot simply refuse, what the Remusians would see as magic, because it is inherit somehow.


The end of the world would not be chaos then, but an amount of order which imbalances it and leads to disaster... that's great.. that's why I can't be too tidy, for that would be dangerous... 

Hehe, and Avá would open her eyes, because she is so surprised to see order in a world dreamed to be chaotic


@Athviaro: German

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

German, eh? I learn that at school (not very good )

OK, fair enough, but some reasoning may be needed for why they carry this gene? It may depend on how old a tribe it is - could they have been affected by the War of the Chosen (I remember the Remusians were used for experiments at that time, I think) or something else? Maybe not, maybe just "No-one knows whence this ability came..." and leave it at that.

And yes, this magic will have to follow the law of conservation of matter... neither added to nor destroyed.

This magic would follow the law of conservation of Charge, not Energy-Mass (there are three conservation laws, energy/mass[they're the same thing], momentum and charge). Doesn't really matter, it's a bit 21stC using that terminology. Just say it cannot be added to or subtracted from, maybe.

[Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin]

Eh, whatever law.  I only took Physics for Miss Karbashewski.  I failed miserably but I learned oh so much. . *sigh*  Those white blouses... those skirts....

Anywho, the gene theory sounds good to me.  No need to explain in too much detail.  We are medieval, afterall.

And Talia, I agree.  So I won't be cleaning the kitchen today.  Not until the living room gets messy enough that it balances clean dishes.  *wonders how he will convince his brother to follow that theory*

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

OK, fair enough, but some reasoning may be needed for why they carry this gene? It may depend on how old a tribe it is - could they have been affected by the War of the Chosen (I remember the Remusians were used for experiments at that time, I think) or something else? Maybe not, maybe just "No-one knows whence this ability came..." and leave it at that.

A mutation of a gene can happen anytime, we don't need the war of the Chosen for that. Let's say, a darkwind stroke one early Antislar. Or anything we don't know what it was.

Alt can choose, what do make with that, when that gene  surfaced, if there was one Antlisar man/woman who showed this ability the first time and became famous, or if the origin of the ability is lost in time...

Ath, don't start to think too scientific, forget all you have learned, earthen physics does NOT apply here, we use it only sometimes to explain something if we think it helps in understanding how something MIGHT work.

It has to be reasonable in itself though.

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

Hey, I was not being too serious, I was just saying. Of course there is no true parallel, and of course Alt can choose. I wasn't denying that.

Athviaro

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

Hey Alt! Do you mind if I use this as a sort of idea for how the Kalta'hnk Ice Giants move? Sort of like the order of ice and the change of movement gives the force needed for movement? And then they draw force from the ice itself?

Thanks

Athviaro

[Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin]

Go ahead.

[Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr]

Thanks! Just to clarify, how much credence is this given by Southern/Santharian scholars? Is it dismissed, accepted, or simply reported with no bias?

Thanks again, and apologies for disturbing your Sunday.

Athviaro

[Azhira Styralias]

Southern scholars wouldl likely report this with little bias, maybe perhaps something like "The Ice Tribes believe such and such..."

The Ice Tribes themselves would likely believe without a doubt.

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