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Author Topic: The Zohologica  (Read 21156 times)
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #30 on: 16 June 2010, 09:13:55 »

Certainly Reve'lor would enjoy working cooperatively with a Southern menagerie--perhaps helping each other acquire specimens, working together on exploratory missions, making arrangements for transporting animals and special foods, etc. Definitely should be a link there.
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Alysse the Likely
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« Reply #31 on: 17 June 2010, 03:41:06 »

Nice to see you stopping by, Alysse! thumbup Hope everything's fine over there in Canada!
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #32 on: 17 June 2010, 17:02:32 »

There is an animal's garden around the Great Library, an idea of Judy and me (can't recall who was it). But that might be just a different concept or idea, not linked to your Zohologica. A competition, maybe, introduced by someone else. It is meant as a garden with foreign trees and animals, but not as complete as your idea. It is mentioned at least once in the Falseroch Lizard entry. So my only request is not to put it there  :)
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #33 on: 17 June 2010, 18:12:50 »

I am a little confused as to the final points in your comment Talia, tut mir leid ^^

1. What exactly did you mean by the 'competition' part? As in, that garden around the Great Library could prove to be one of the main competitors to the Zohologica, or that the creation of that garden in itself was a competition?

2. And with that final request I'm guessing you mean, not to have the Falseroch represented in any of the Zohologicas?

Other than that though, thanks so much for the interest and providing further parameters/links for this entry, danke vielmals
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #34 on: 17 June 2010, 19:38:13 »

Sorry for the confusion, Jonael.

As Judy and my ideas were a bit different to what you have in mind, I thought this animal's garden could be a different kind of zoo, not belonging to your plans, but a  small competition to the bigger zohologica.

False Rock Lizard -  you can of course use it, if you provide it with the right environment, otherwise it will simply die!  evil

What I wanted to say was, please don't take as one of your places for your zohologica  the area around the library.
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Miraran Tehuriden
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« Reply #35 on: 18 June 2010, 20:29:26 »

Mira advises against using a lot of magic. (Magic barriers? dear me...)

Mira also advises against claiming this is about people's awareness. Its about showing off how wealthy you are, or, if this is going to be the Bestiary's version of the Herbarium's Public Gardens, research. But mostly showing off (I know that's what wé do at the Herbarium!) Awareness wasn't usefull in Ye Olde Days, since humans (and in this case the other races) did not exert much ecological presence yet. (And if they did, they were blissfully unaware.)

Mira lastly advises to use glass (panes of about 50*50 nb seem a fair size, laces together with framework a-la greenhouse) for isolation, and, if needed, place steel bars INSIDE the enclosure, to prevent animals from touching it.

Of course, Mira has been gone for a loooong time, so he probably wasn't here in the first place. Move along folks, nothing to see here..
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #36 on: 18 June 2010, 23:52:34 »

Heya Mira, thanks for your input, it really has been a while since we've seen ya (do you honestly go talking in third person like that sardoc?! *frown* )

The use of magic has been the most volatile aspect to this project so far, and like you said we'll be attempting to limit the use of magic in the enclosures aspect. At the same time though, the points you make dun really solve the issues we're having so far I think.. glass, no matter how small we make the panels can easily smashed and prove a hazard to the visitors. Unlike a greenhouse, these enclosures contain live animals that shove and push and in some cases will be aggresive. Which brings us to the suggestion of steel bars. There isn't much point in placing steel bars after a barrier of glass. That'd make the glass useless. So yes, while I agree with you on the point that I'd like to keep the amount of magic to a minimum, so far I don't see how to go about it sensibly just yet.

As for the boasting aspect, you're totaly right... but at the same time that's the case for absolutely everything. You're not gonna put effort into something you don't feel proud of. So while the people behind the zohologica are immensly proud of their creation, going all out and claiming that showing off is their driving force really isn't going to be their pitch to get this idea out there. When you're selling an idea you're not honestly gonna go with the blatent truth.. that's not gonna sell. You go with something else you have faith and belief in too (less so than the honest truth) but at least it's a more effective way of getting your idea out there.

Then comes the 'awareness' issue ^^ I think we're along different lines on this one. Much like your previous point, this isn't about making an impact on ecology, but much rather just blatent showing off. If we know about this fantastic monster over yonder, then why not boast with it by displaying it? No matter what the impact races have just yet, no one's safe from amazement for what's around us. As for awareness 'not being useful', aye, back in ye old day that was true.. but this is Santharia. There's the Compendium which didn't exist in our timeline, and within it hundreds of researchers from all over the world dedicating their effort towards collecting and recording awareness of various things. You can't honestly say that they're doing "useless awareness" stuff?

Haha, thanks for your oppinion Mira, much appreciated. Maybe you'll find us a viable solution to that barrier problem grin
« Last Edit: 18 June 2010, 23:56:36 by Jonael Tomeskrift » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: 19 June 2010, 00:01:30 »

Jonael you posted while I was typing but i will post anyway.

Mira has good comments.  

Regarding enclosures- There are probably lots of different ways to house animals.  Each animal may have its unique way of being housed.  Perhaps any magical enclosures could be limited to a few animals that need to be housed in such a way.  But after going through the current magic spells I do not see any spell that would allow us to have a magic see-through wall.  But I am sure we can find other ways to appropriately use magic.  In a limited way.

On another note Jonael.  the motives behind the Zoho are important so lets get that clearly stated. The motives will help us to understand how humane the animals will be treated.  How clean the cages are. and even what type of cages we will see.  Do we care if an animal dies if it is easily replaceable for example.

Is the motivation:
Research (which leads to animal experimentation and general lack of feeling for the animals)
Money/Profit (which leads to low cost care and animal abuse, like some of the old circus's)
Animal Awareness- I agree with Mira, this is a bit too altruistic for a middle ages type setting.
Status- meaning wealthy benefactors showing off exotic creatures to gain notoriety and celebrity

Perhaps the main motive is research but they promote the animal awareness in order to get visitors which funds the zoo and the research.  A combination of 3 of the motives.  
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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr
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« Reply #38 on: 19 June 2010, 00:20:33 »

I agree with you on all but one of your points, Seeker. I would not say that the main motive would be research - what do they hope to learn? Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is rather an enlightened idea. I pictured it as a kind of vast menagerie of the ancient Indian and Oriental style - the more, more exotic animals you can donate to the Zohologica the more enhanced your standing. The Zohologica benifits in that it has the resources and knowledge to maintain these animals, so it is the de facto battleground on which this upper-class war is fought.

Anyway, my two sans.
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #39 on: 19 June 2010, 00:28:49 »

Oh, haha, sorry there. I didn't see anyone posting when i started that monster of a reply ^^

I like the idea of having individually tailored enclosures. More effort, but at the same time that'll allow us to reduce the use of unneccssary magic. Once we've confirmed a selection of animals and beasts I guess we can go for an assessment of which animal is best kept how.

As for the motives, while I don't yet see eye to eye, I guess I'll have to compromise.. I just don't see why research and propper treatment of the animals can't work together? If we follow that thinking, then the whole Beastiary section of the Compendium should be laid to waste for their ghastly actions. Yet all the researchers who are mentioned in beastiary entries talk of observation, passion for the animal they are studying.. nothing about slaughter or cutting of funds for research's sake.

But anyways, seeing as the concept'll change completely anyways, lets go with the new idea:

Yup, status and wealth sounds like an interesting drive for the Zohologica. But I don't want the wealth and status aspect of the establishment to come at the price of treatment of the animals... As a mod/head keeper of the Bestiary I stand for fair and equal treatment of the animals, even if the Zohologica will be pushed for money.

So, Seeker, shall we go for a Zohologica that is partially funded by rich people looking for status and a further public way of showing off their wealth? I can go with that. Put in the light of how Avthario put it, the point Mira made earlier makes much more sense: Boasting, but not for the founders, but rather, rich people who think they're using the Zohologica.
« Last Edit: 19 June 2010, 00:33:39 by Jonael Tomeskrift » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: 19 June 2010, 00:34:54 »

That sounds good.  To your other point though,  these wealthy people obvioulsy hire zookeepers to run the zoo, the people who run the zoo may have the love of the animals that you are referring to.  This could be a constant dilemna... the battle of the zookeepers who care for the animals and the wealthy animal owners who just ultimately care about themselves.  In this way you get both worlds.
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #41 on: 19 June 2010, 00:40:13 »

Sounds like a good concept, rich ppl versus the people who care.. some powerful power-play stories could come of this.

Let's go for that one then.

[/] Driving Concept
[_] Enclosure Barriers
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #42 on: 19 June 2010, 01:13:34 »

*in a fit of jealousy, kicks Mira square in the shin*

I say it, I get ignored... Mira says it and everyone listens....  :P
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« Reply #43 on: 19 June 2010, 01:21:11 »

Good looking people usually get more attention.
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #44 on: 19 June 2010, 01:24:07 »

 :P  You gotta point

Damn your rugged good looks Mira  *shakes fist*
« Last Edit: 19 June 2010, 01:31:56 by Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin » Logged

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