Regarding the GobOcs

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[Deklitch Hardin]

Ferengi are basically the merchants of the Star Trek universe ... they are greedy, snivveling, backstabbing individuals who literally live, breath and eat profit ... but only if they are male ... female Ferengi, of course, are not allowed out in public, wear clothes or make a profit. If they could unite long enough to work for a common cause, they could do pretty well for themselves. But as they are too busy fighting amongst themselves, and attempting to outdo each other in their deals, they can't achieve any great advantage. They have a series of Rules of Acquisition (285 of them) which guide their business practices ... with great ones like Wives Serve, Brothers Inherit, Treat people like your fmaily and exploit them, Employees are rungs on the ladder to success, Keep your ears open and my personal favourite Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish, and you lose a customer.

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

Ah I see. Yes  they do seem to reflect some of the ideas I was going to apply to the goblins.

While it's intrigued me greatly because it's something I can really expand on, I haven't been able to justify or fit in the mercantile aspect to the goblins. Looking at their history, it's a pretty violent one, with only the orcs and trolls as allies. Trolls for one don't really need trade, so the market they'd be working in to would be relatively small. Also for a very destructive race, trade just seems too 'pacified', no? I'll have a look and see if I can apply some internal mercantile concept to them later on. I'd rather keep them isolated as a race as they are now, until I can properly and fully dig my fingers into them, get a good grasp and control over them and who they are, then I'll move on to the more challenging aspect, namely relationships with other cultures and races.

Dek brought to light a good point I'd overlooked though: Female Goblins... I'll make sure I define their role in Society too. Just off the top of my head, I wouldn't necessarily want to give them diminutive roles though. Maybe make them the queens of their household, with rich and strong characters, but without much influence or power in the grand scheme of the race. Any thoughts? 

[Valan Nonesuch]

You want them to be matriarchs then?

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Jonael, the females always have the say in the background, the true power, it is just, that the men do not realise it... even not  compendiumists who describe them, even invent their traits..

So, if they will not be the technique freaks like in WoW, which race is it you  could develop? Maybe you should go in this direction, even if it is a cliche...

Btw, though the goblins are very good in constructing things, building driving devices etc, its the gnomes who have the true technical understanding in WoW, who are most probably the most intelligent race in the WoW universe...

I wanted to do something else for you.. what was it again? Ah , the Zoooooo

Edit:

Maybe make them the queens of their household, with rich and strong characters, but without much influence or power in the grand scheme of the race. Any thoughts?

That would not be a matriarchat, there the women have the true power, hold it openly.

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

Matriarchy? No, i thought my sentence implied quite the opposite.. The women have power at home, within the family, but the race as a whole is run on the flawed, backstabbing, faux-democracy of the male goblins, with faction lords squabbling for power by winning over supporters (aimed at the males, though one could possibly be more open minded and later attempt to win by allowing the female population to vote too) or by brute force, ie how big the cartel's private army is, etc. Generally though I want the goblins to maintain their rough and primal feel, by keeping them messy as a whole, male dominant through brute force, with the elements of sly ingenuity only peppering the main (delicious) steak that is the Goblins

@Talia, while I'm hoping to stray away from the general cartoony characters wow made them out to be, I'll admit that some elements of their tinkering natures will remain. As you rightly pointed out though, they won't be on par with the fine skill of the gnomes. What I came up with instead is this: The goblins occupy the underbelly of the Tandala Mountains, mainly in mines and spaces previously owned by dwarves. So they will be great at metal-craft and smithing, but on a more 'salvaging' level, compared to dwarves and gnomes. Where as the other races go for original products and weapons, the goblin's fine art and skill is reflected in their seamless conversion of someone else's' intricate craft work to something adapted and useful to themselves. Much like their sense of architecture everything will be based around salvaging and making things out of other things rather than from scratch. That way they remain crafters, but with their own unique story.

Looking forward to your feedback on the Zoho, really trying to get that one finished up

[Deklitch Hardin]

Oh sorry, Jonael ... I wasn't meaning for the gob-ocs to be traders ... I still think the technology thing is the way to go with them ... I was just expanding on the Ferengi thing.

Another Star Trek race are the Orions (green skinned, appropriately enough) and the women hold the power in that race, but they let their men folk do all the work. I'm not as much up to date on the Orions as I am on the Ferengi, unfortunately. They are basically pirates who live to exploit each other and other races.

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

Haha, dun worry Dek, I'm still at the brainstorming stage for this idea, so I took the opportunity to retort on the information you'd put up, see what ideas stirred.. kind of in the sprit of 'leave no stone unturned' (or something along those lines.. I've never been too good with english sayings) ^^ I should be the one apologizing for rambling on with paragraphs to every sentence that gets put up here, haha

So I've got together enough ideas to set pen to paper. The question now is, how do I go about this: Do I add and expand on the existing entry for the goblins or should I format it so that the ideas for individual entries?

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

Next to the above question about how to present all of this, a new question came up: Is there a tribe/race in Caelereth which has something similar to the Scottish Tartan system, with different families having different tartans?

I blame this trip into the highlands for inciting this idea, but we're being told so much about the families, the tartans... and I'm in love with scottish ways ever since I moved up here to study... If it's not around already I'm considering weaving something like it into the goblin race ^^

[Valan Nonesuch]

Well, as I remember from the discussion of the Dirk, our handsome Ashz-Oc seems to be wearing a tartan. The CoA for that tribe is also listed as "Still to be added"


With any revisionary ideas, I think it's important that the main entry retain a semblance of being up-to-date. I imagine certain sections should likely go untouched, so you'd be rewritting/adding to other sections of the original entry.

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Haven't understood the last part of your sentence:
 

Do I add and expand on the existing entry for the goblins or should I format it so that the ideas for individual entries?

The entry is not really in need to be rewritten, so I would agree with Valan, 'certain sections should likely go untouched, so you'd be rewriting/adding to other sections of the original entry. '

In some cases rewriting some bits may be necessary, but the gist of the entry should be kept. So I don't know, if your tartan idea, so much I like it (as a fan of Scottish people also), fits to them.

Instead of strict tribal system the Gob-Oc live in a rough "democratic" society where everyone gains power by the number of followers that is willing to follow him. That somehow explains the quick adaption and expansion under the Tandalas as unsuccessful leaders were simply abandoned.

The author of this entry is available, you could always e-mail him if he is ok with you expanding on them and your new ideas. He has often answered in the past, when he was asked for an opinion. You find his email/website on is teampage.

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

Thanks guys, I only ask how to format my additions to the goblin race because if you have a look over the actual entry, you'll notice that the general tone of the text is very vague. There isn't a lot of detail and a huge proportion of the topics are covered with a big "we don't know because they keep to themselves" stamp.. now, in no way am I criticising this, I'm just pointing out that in the state that it is in at the moment the entry suggest that it was done as a momentary front that was going to be picked up at a later date and expanded on. Could that be right?

I really don't mind just adding to the the entry, and I'll discuss any major changes I'm suggesting with the original author first. However it will be very hard to keep chucks in the original text when they mostly claim: "we don't know this", "no one knows", and are relatively vague. That is the goal of me approaching this race after all, to shed new light on how they have developed since the troll wars..

So you see, that is the problem I'm faced with at the moment, and once again, not criticising, just voicing my thoughts on why the traditional approach to adding to an entry doesn't seem like the right way to go about it

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Jonael, of course you need to change things, if you want to add to the entry. The way you mention yourself is, that now, we know more since the time, the last researcher was there. Maybe introduce one, and be it youself , somebody who knows more, who encountered them.

They won't change their habits though (e.g. not keen on trading to much with Southern people or other races), but even that could be altered (moderately), but then it has to be a change in politics, maybe a new leader who brought that new idea forward.
Bend lovingly, and all will be ok, and talk to Rakshiri/Koldar to get his blessings, then all is easy!

You can even introduce the tartans, but you need good reasons why they should use them despite the quote I posted above.

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

Alright, I'll have a rough outline of all the points I planned to extend with up tomorrow, and then we can see how people feel about the individual ones. As far as possible though I have not strayed from between the existing guidelines of this tribe (except for some physical appearance issues, but I'll iron those out with the original researchers ^^)

Researcher, yup, already have a wee goblin who'll be the 'vague' source for most of the new information that has reached us about the goblins.

About the tartans, I still have to see, I'm not convinced I can integrate them properly just yet, and i don't want to attempt a half hearted job.

Off to bed just now, but the points should be up tomorrow

[Valan Nonesuch]

I think the tartans belong with the Ashz-oc. Goblins? Paint, body art of some sort, permanent or not.

[Jonael Tomeskrift]

Just out of interest, how did the Brownie Development, child-board, came about? I mean, were there special conditions for it to be put up?

Don't worry, I'm not going to petition one of them for the Gob-Ocs (they're a race that's way too underdeveloped still, with hardly anything there) It's just that I'm using that sort of structure to set up a backbone to the goblins, so I'm genuinely interested in the thinking and ideas behind it, cheers

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