Santharian History: 100 to 200 a.S.

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[Artimidor Federkiel]

This is a placeholder as of yet, but I'm hereby declaring that I'll see to specify the next hundred years in Santharian history, which we still haven't moved on site, within the next days. I already announced that a while ago, so I'll go ahead with it now. We specified various dates and events in our History session quite a while ago, and practically nothing at all made it on site. Time to change that a bit and get on with it.

Note: Talia wanted to deal with the coming Santharian empress herself, but there's always room for adjustments/additions later. So in order to prevent Santharian history from remaining stalled for an indefinite amount of time, I'll get to the next hundreds years, and hopefully to another batch afterwards.

Santharian Kingdom History
Santharian Royal Line

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Yeah! I'll be here next week!

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Ok guys, I've made a first draft of the mentioned time period Due to the fact that it's easier to generate the history pages hemselves and link to pages here rather than post the events here I've done just that.

See the links to the Santharian Kingdom History table and the Santharian Royal Line in the first post. Changes at the Royal Line were made by date 80 a.S., updates of the main Santharian History table comprise the dates from 105 to 201 b.S. I've added in what we specified more or less exactly and what I think fits nicely, though it wouldn't hurt if we find some more interesting events during Sirthala's and Mantheros II.'s rule - these two are still lacking a few things. Maybe I find a few more things in the next days, then I'll add them. Suggestions are of course welcome!

Hope the rest that is there sheds some more light on a part of Santharian history and we can finally make it canon

[Deklitch Hardin]

Hi Artimidor,

Nice work overall, I've just got a few comments though for you for things that you might like to consider changing or clarifying. I am loving the various maneouverings behind the scenes by associated peoples and even the tragedies that you have occurring (if loving is the right emotion to use when discussing tragedies, of course)

The following is from the Santharian Kingdom History table. Would that also be the information in the Santharian Royal Line table? If so, I won't read through that one. If not, i'll read through it later. In any case, Aura from me for the read.

Now then ... some suggestions/corrections for you.

You have:

Marzevash "the Adamantly" is crowned King of Tharania

In the title regarding his reign

but then in the paragraph beneath him, you refer to him as "The Adamant"

Later on in the paragraph under 13 b.S. you also refer to him as "the Adamamtly"

Not sure if that's a mistake or not just thought I'd mention it. Maybe change either the Adamantly to the Adamant or the Adamant to the Adamantly. My suggestion would be to change the Adamant to the Adamantly as that way you only need to change one.

Under 165 a.S.

Thaenos, three years younger than his brother, inherits the Santharian throne at the age of 47, despite of his own weak health

If you want 'despite' there, you don't need the 'of'.

Under 185 a.S.

With the Edit of Parda Dagolth also creates the title of "Santhran" in representation for the Santharian ruler in honour of the founding father of the kingdom.

Edit should be Edict and I think a comma after Parda would make it easier to follow.

[Drasil Razorfang]

I have a question as well concerning the shift in dynasties.  How come after the death of her two older brothers, Saenýssa is not crowned queen?  There seems to be a precedent earlier on in which the oldest daughter is allowed to rule if she has no surviving brothers.

I think that for the sake of fluidity this issue should be addressed somewhere in the history table or the Royal Line.  Perhaps she dies at a young age? or maybe some corrupt government official plots to deny her the throne because she is a woman, thus leading to a switch in dynasties?

Another idea which would require some minor adjustments to the History and Royal line would be to have her marry Santhran Dagolth (removing Shawaldah as his wife), and the two rule together as equals.  Their children would bear the name of the father, causing the change in dynasty. 

[Artimidor Federkiel]

The small issues Dek mentioned have been fixed by now.

Concerning Saenýssa: For one, Saenýssa is 57 at the time Thaenos dies. So due to the fact that she cannot bear children at that age, the Santhros line is dead at any rate. (It's always easier the other way round as a man can still father children at old age.) Theoretically she could have taken over at that age, but it would have been rather pointless. Marriage to Dagolth also really isn't a good option, because the whole conspiracy then doesn't really work.

Thus I guess we'll simply kill her off before her last brother dies, that's a quite simple and elegant solution...

[Deklitch Hardin]

Question ... in terms of Santharia ... Emperess and Queen seem to be used interchangeably. Does the same hold true for Emperor and King?

How is it decided if a female is to be called Emperess or Queen? Is it Emperess if they are the Santhos and Queen if they are married to the Santhos, or is it simply whim on the part of the person who holds that position?

Dek

[Artimidor Federkiel]

I used Emperor and King and Queen and Empress interchangeably - I assume that there is no major difference concerning these terms.

[Valan Nonesuch]

Not functionally, no. They all mean the absolute ruler of a monarchy, though the Emperor typically denotes an Empire, while King and Queen are implied to belong to a Kingdom

[Artimidor Federkiel]

What constitutes an Empire? A pretty large kingdom I'd say. Which is exactly what we have with Santharia.

[Valan Nonesuch]

Wiki has this to say

The term empire derives from the Latin imperium (power, authority). Politically, an empire is a geographically extensive group of states and peoples (ethnic groups) united and ruled either by a monarch (emperor, empress) or an oligarchy. Geopolitically, the term empire has denoted very different, territorially-extreme states — at the strong end, the extensive Spanish Empire (16th c.) and the British Empire, at the weak end, the Holy Roman Empire (8th c.–19th c.), in its medieval and early-modern forms.

Etymologically, the political usage of empire denotes a strong, centrally-controlled nation-state, but in the looser vernacular usage, it can denote a large-scale business enterprise (i.e. a transnational corporation) and a political organisation of either national-, regional- or city scale, controlled either by a person (a political boss) or a group authority (political bosses).

An imperial political structure is established and maintained two ways: (i) as a territorial empire of direct conquest and control with force (direct, physical action to compel the emperor’s goals), and (ii) as a coercive, hegemonic empire of indirect conquest and control with power (the perception that the emperor can physically enforce his desired goals). The former provides greater tribute and direct political control, yet limits further expansion because it absorbs military forces to fixed garrisons. The latter provides less tribute and indirect control, but avails military forces for further expansion. Territorial empires (e.g. the Mongol Empire, the Median Empire) tended to be contiguous areas. The term on occasion has been applied to maritime empires or thalassocracies, (e.g. the Athenian and British Empires) with looser structures and more scattered territories.

So, Santharia is a United Kingdom, while R'unor is sketched out as an empire, despite the differences in scale.

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Which Santharia has as well... Now the United Kingdom on Earth is definitely a Kingdom as the name says. Is it still an Empire?

[Valan Nonesuch]

The united kingdom was once *part* of an Empire, but in that case it represents a few monarchies (kingdoms) that have been united into one. I think that in general, King/Queen would be the title to use for pre-Tharanian rulers, and likely up until the title of Santhran is established.

[Deklitch Hardin]

I was simply interested in knowing if 'such and such' a ruler of Santharia called themselves Emperor/Emperess out of an ego trip or whether there were any things in place for it such as in the UK ... where the husband of a reigning queen of England (where the queen is the monarch ie in the case of Queen Elizabeth II) is referred to as a Prince (eg QE II's husband) while the wife of a reigning King is called a Queen (eg the Queen Mother, when her husband was alive was Queen Elizabeth I, I believe).

Regarding the British Empire vs United Kingdom stuff from Earth ... when Britain explored the world and established colonies around the world to stop the French/Spanish/Portuguese/Dutch/etc to get to those places first, it was referred to as an Empire ... even into the 20th Century, what is now known as the Commonwealth Games were once known as the Empire Games. I suspect that when their various colonies all declared their independence from England, that they felt it was pointless being called an Empire anymore and they changed their name back to a Kingdom. Interestingly enough, there was a Queen of England (Victoria, I believe) who was known as both Queen of England and Emperess of India.)

Now, the above is based on my memory of my Primary School and early Secondary School history lessons (from the 80's) so it is possible I have forgotten things.

I was thinking that if we had some kind of reasoning for these people to be called Emperor/Empress or king/Queen it would add a bit of interest/realism to it ... as I said, perhaps as simple as an ego trip on behalf of the person (King/Queen/Emperor/Empress) in question or an over zealous historian who wanted to gain favour in the eyes of the santhos by stroking their ego or something along those lines.

Dek

[Valan Nonesuch]

I think your suggestion there, Dek, poses a very creative solution to our problem.

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