Witchcraft. How to spin a spell

Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #15 on: 02 September 2011, 05:20:23 »

Splendid! *rubs hands*


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #16 on: 02 September 2011, 07:07:40 »

I have the Kalta'hnk (on indefinite hiatus, awaiting reworking) and the Glandorians, for whose continuation I need to sort out the thing about migration - who came first? Ta'lia says one thing, the site another; would you be able to help with that?

Got to go now; would be appreciated if you could pop in and help work it out.

Ath


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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #17 on: 03 September 2011, 07:48:39 »

I deleted all references to Avá as an object of witch-lore, and added a few paragraphs to the "Concept/Worldview" section. Have I moved the text closer towards acceptability?


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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #18 on: 06 September 2011, 04:56:21 »

Yep, that's definitely a good step, Shabakuk! It still feels a bit on the edge of Aváism here and there, but basically it's quite ok. I see we have "dream threads" now established, which is perhaps the best word to link the dream and web, so whenever possible try to go with that word.

The Ximaxianism section works also I'd say, so it looks as if the whole thing is already heading towards an end. The history still isn't complete - I definitely need to check that one again in more detail when you're done, I made some mental notes last time I checked before we changed it around somewhat. Have to see again what still applies and where there's something problematic.


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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #19 on: 06 September 2011, 05:45:18 »

Thanks, Art!

Quote

It still feels a bit on the edge of Aváism here and there, but basically it's quite ok.

Do feel free to tell me specifically what you think is too close to the elven belief, and I'm happy to make further changes. Suggestions are welcome. I'm not married to my ideas. I want the entry to fit well into Santharia, and I am all for preserving the distinctiveness of Aváism.

I realize I haven't spelled out the connection to the Weavers yet. I'll have a look at the Weaver entries again and see what I can come up with.

Have you had any further thoughts on a Styrásh word for spider that could serve for the etymology of 'witch'?


« Last Edit: 06 September 2011, 05:48:56 by Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang »	Logged

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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #20 on: 06 September 2011, 14:25:36 »

Stay tuned... coming up this evening!


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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #21 on: 07 September 2011, 02:48:01 »

Ok, here we have some words I propose:

rashán - to spin
rásh (m./f.)) - spinner; spider
háh - ultimate; outmost (pronunciation as in German "hach")
háh'rásh (m./f.) - the Ultimate Spinner; the World Spider; Dream Spinner(witchcraft term)
hásh (m./f.) - witch (Tharian version: "hag")
ouishán - to twist; to pervert; to contort; to wring (spoken in English: wishAn)
ouidshán - to practise twisted magic (short for "ouishán'dél'án"); to witch
ouídsh - charlatan; twister of magic; witch


« Last Edit: 08 September 2011, 03:38:03 by Artimidor Federkiel »	Logged

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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #22 on: 07 September 2011, 06:43:50 »

Arti, this is great and more comprehensive than I had hoped for. I love the etymologies for hag and witch! They say a lot about the elven view of witches, and will serve as a stark symbol of the mistrust that witches encounter. Aura for you!

I have but one suggestion: what if rashán meant "to spin" rather than "to weave"? This would befit the connection to 'spider' just as well (so rásh could be 'spinner, spider' and háh'rásh 'Ultimate/World Spider, or Spinner'.

The reason for my idea is this: I think if we went with 'spinning', rather than weaving, I might have an idea of how I could remove the witches' ideas further from the elven ones. In short: the World Spider spins the threads, but doesn't actively weave them. The world is the result of a chaotic interweaving of the threads. So in this version, there is no 'Dreameress' anymore, and not even someone who weaves her dreams. Instead, there is only the chaos of threads and knots. Basically, the witches view the world as the work of a mad spider ... I'd have to spin this yarn out some more, of course - for example, somehow the witches need to have an explanation why there is so much regularity in the world amid the chaos of the threads - but in general I think a worldview that emphasizes the randomness and chaos of reality might befit the witches well, and might also explain why they are viewed as renegades and 'twisted'.

What do you think?

Moreover, there is already a word for "to weave" in the Styrásh dictionary (sú'ufanán). Not that you can't have two words for the same concept - but there is no word for 'spin' (here in the sense of spinning a thread) yet ...


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Artimidor Federkiel

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #23 on: 07 September 2011, 14:36:40 »

Yay, what a great idea! I'd definitely go for introducing the "spinner" rather than the dreamer/ess. The single persons or things would then weave the thread, eh? Makes the whole thing much more unique and quite different from elven concepts

Love it very much, Shabakuk! thumbup

Besides, "spinner" has also an additional negative connotation, so maybe there's a source there that comes directly from witchcraft: "You think you can make it all up yourself then, eh? Spinner!" lol


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Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr

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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #24 on: 07 September 2011, 15:23:31 »

Could the witches - some - believe that THEY give and gave the chaos form? Perhaps that they were formed by the chaotic mingling of threads and built their world? So the order in the world is a result of the witches' interference, and they are the active weavers? They might then believe that they are in some ways superior, and that their art is an absolutely vital practice for the world itself.

Ath


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Re: Witchcraft. How to weave, cook, or sing a spell

« Reply #25 on: 08 September 2011, 03:50:17 »

@Shabakuk: Ok, I've now updated my post above replacing "weaving" with "spinning" where it occurred.

@Ath & @Shab: Good point Ath makes, a lot of things could be tied together here!

At this point also the connection with the weavers comes into play, and what they created (see Old Weaver entry etc.) As far as these guys are concerned a lot of it is shrouded in history, so I guess it's not really important to explain all the connections. However, they could be - in myths and legends - related to the witches, maybe they formed their own society and cities in what is now known as the Web, and the connections to them were eventually severed. But they might have had the same root as many witches, and maybe some witches still know about this place, or even make attempts to reach this domain.

Rumours might exist that witches with a suspiciously long life-span are actually travelling the Web (through time and space!), but would never reveal that secret. A lot of mystery could go on in this regard, and the good thing is that we could just touch on it, without going into much detail, and thus keep it open and fascinating what witches are capable of...


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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Witchcraft. How to spin a spell

« Reply #26 on: 09 September 2011, 03:21:17 »

Thanks for the ideas, Ath & Art!

I think this discussion gives me enough to work with to produce a draft worthy of a thorough check. I'll need some time though (definitely more than a week, maybe much longer), since I'll be rather busy in the near future. Meanwhile, I changed the development icon to "pencil". I'll be back!

Shabakuk


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Mina

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Re: Witchcraft. How to spin a spell

« Reply #27 on: 12 September 2011, 04:38:11 »

Quote

Addressing his fellow Ximaxian sages, Turya explains

Actually, Turya was female.


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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Witchcraft. How to spin a spell

« Reply #28 on: 15 September 2011, 06:08:16 »

Thanks, Mina!

Corrected.


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Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

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Re: Witchcraft. How to spin a spell

« Reply #29 on: 16 September 2011, 06:29:12 »

... and ready for comments!

I have not had a good idea for a reference to the Weavers yet, and would appreciate suggestions.

Arti, I hope I've done your marvellous Styrash inventions justice. Let me know if there's more I can do to integrate them.


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Witchcraft. How to spin a spell