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Author Topic: City of Ximax  (Read 25417 times)
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Mina
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« Reply #15 on: 09 September 2011, 14:54:30 »

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Rather, I assume that, upon the idea of the school, Ximan would maybe go out and hire farmers, gardeners, and perhaps some tailors.
That's more or less what I meant by recruiting settlers.  Even if it's a rather small school at first, they'd still need to find people who can grow the food (I'm guessing transporting it from elsewhere isn't feasible due to distance), prepare the food, build the school, build housing for everyone, and other stuff I haven't thought of yet.  By this point, it's basically become a small town.  Once they actually have something, people might then start to arrive on their own.  Good point about collecting funds though; I totally overlooked that.  

I'm not sure what would prevent Kyrania from trying to take control of the whole place once the Orb was dealt with though.  Without Centorauria, I'm guessing they're by far the most powerful state in the region, and Ximax probably wasn't that strong in the beginning.  Then again, the Kyranian history on the site has a huge gap from 8850b.S. to 1406 b.S., so maybe we can do something with that.  Perhaps Dek or someone else familiar with the Kyranians could clarify?  

Quote
Because of the Academy that lies at the heart of the city wields massive potential power, Centorauria does not threaten it with high taxes or strict laws, but allows it to more-or-less run itself as it always has.
Regarding this, the impression I got from Curgan when we talked about it some years ago was that Centoraurians value freedom and probably wouldn't have been particularly strict with Ximax anyway unless Ximax was trying to cause trouble (or if an unusually authoritarian king was on the throne, in which case the Academy's power would certainly help with deterrance).  Perhaps this is one of the reasons Ximax joined Centorauria in the first place.  

Looking at the complete Sarvonian timeline now:

Centorauria is first unified around 1900 b.S., but it's a confederation of proto-Centoraurian tribes rather than an actual kingdom.  It becomes a proper kingdom sometime during the reign of Carbug II, from 1821-1766 b.S.  Perhaps Ximax joined some time during the confederation period, and then stayed on when it became a kingdom?  

After the Dragonstorm, Ximax doesn't get mentioned again until the siege of 777-773 b.S., which ended with Ximax's defeat.  Apparently this was part of the First Sarvonian War, so it'd be nice if we had someone familiar with that period.  There is no mention of what Ximax did in the war before the siege, but Centorauria was apparently involved (though there are few details), so probably Ximax had been taking part as part of Centorauria.  

The siege itself is slightly problematic.  It's described as being carried out by dark elves from the Shivering Woods.  The Shivering Woods entry mentions a tribe called the Tsváen’mol’khár, but it hasn't been referenced anywhere else on the site, it seems.  The entry itself looks like it could really use a revision too.  I'm not sure what to do about this.  Perhaps we can substitute it with some other elven tribe that was merely using the Shivering Wood as a staging ground of some sort.  

773-621 b.S., everyone except the Volkek-oshra abandons Ximax.  Like I said, it makes more sense to me if the Volkek-oshra left too like everyone else, but maybe you guys can come up with something better.  Odd that Centorauria didn't do anything about it though.  The First Sarvonian War ended in 729 b.S. and Centorauria didn't get involved in another war until 668 b.S., against Erpheronia.  

621 b.S., Xarl gets people back to Ximax and the Academy is reopened.  This is also the year when a civil war starts in Centorauria.  I'm not entirely sure yet how this would have affected the newly-restored Ximax.  Anyway, just 4 years later, Erpheronia has apparently somehow become involved in the civil war and conquers Milkengrad, causing Centorauria to splinter into many independent states.  Thyslan, Salsair, Horth, and Ximax are specifically mentioned as some of these independent states, but presumably there were many others.  So maybe Ximax had been independent during those 4 years too.  Centorauria was busy with the civil war anyway, so maybe they weren't too concerned about Ximax, which was after all far from the core area of Centorauria.  I hope we can change the name of the independent Ximaxian state though.  Currently it's called the Magicroth Common in the Centoraurians entry, which sounds really weird to me.  Something simple like Republic of Ximax probably makes more sense.  

611 b.S., Centoraurian and Caltharian troops have a skirmish over who gets to buy horses from Horth. A Zirghurim mage from Ximax intervenes and manages to negotiate a treaty allowing anyone to buy horses from Horth regardless of which country they were from, which apprently also begins a friendship between Ximax and Horth.  We might need to modify this slightly given the situation Centorauria is in at the moment.  Other than that, it's an interesting example of Ximax's influence during this period.  Maybe we can come up with a few other things too.  

580-565 b.S., Centorauria is slowly reconstituted.  Some of the former Centoraurian states rejoin peacefully, some had to be reconquered.  Centorauria also takes revenge on Kyrania for expanding into its land during the period of disunity, if I remember correctly.  We know that Ximax rejoined Centorauria, but I don't think it's been stated how that happened.  Centorauria probably considers the Cha'domm peninsula to be part of its territory, and probably would have tried to reclaim it.  Perhaps Ximax rejoined peacefully after negotiating some nice terms for itself.  I see Ximax as preferring diplomacy to force, and Centorauria would probably prefer to not have to go to the trouble of conquering Ximax, whether or not it could be done.  

550 b.S. Ximax outgrows its walls and is divided into Inner and Outer cities.  Sounds about right to me, but I'm not sure it really needs to be here.  Seems like a rather minor thing.  

550-501 b.S. is the Second Sarvonian War.  I'm not quite sure what happened, but Ximax was supposed to have remained neutral the whole time.  This is somewhat problematic though.  Centorauria seems to have been involved, so I'm not sure how Ximax could have managed to stay neutral.  In 509 b.S., Ximax is also described as going independent "in order to continue participating in the Second Sarvonian War", which is rather odd since Ximax supposedly wasn't taking part in the first place, while Centorauria's involvement continued even after Ximax's independence.  

In 542 b.S., elves sail from the Vontron to attack Parda, and part of their forces apparently attack Ximax to draw its attention away from the rest of it.  This should probably be in Ximax's history section, but for some reason it isn't.  I'm not sure why the elves felt they had to do that though.  I doubt Ximax had enough of a navy to interfere even if it wanted to.  

In 482 b.S., Tharania is formed and Ximax decides to join.  We could probably elaborate a little on this, and on what Ximax was up to between its independence in 509 b.S. and now.  But it's really late so I think I'll stop now.  

One last thing: I noticed that a few times, the history entries mention Ximax's catacombs being filled in or re-dug.  Is that still the case, or has it been changed since those bits were written?  
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« Reply #16 on: 10 September 2011, 07:15:07 »

I don't know this for sure ... but I kind of get the feeling that Garret was keen for the Kyranians to feel about magic in a similar way to the way that the Remusians feel about magic, only to a much lesser extent. That might be part of the reason why Kyrania didn't move into Ximax. I'd kind of be keen to keep the Kyranians in as much a 'hands off its magic' kind of way as possible.
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« Reply #17 on: 10 September 2011, 11:41:52 »

Mina, you are an amazing researcher! I'm impressed by all the information you've managed to dig out from the annal of Caelereth. I'm glad to have your help on this!

As it seems our discussion is moving chronologically, I will try to transcribe as we go so that as we finish our discussions, we'll have a complete and correct history.


777-773 b.S. Siege of Ximax: I'm not necessarily too concerned about the Siege. Even the details of what specific dark elven tribe sieged and eventually toppled Ximax can remain relatively vague. Of greater concern to me in this period is the mention of the Staffs of Ximax, which are of course inconsistent now with the way the Academy has been designed. But perhaps that's for another discussion.


773 b.S. Fall of Ximax: This I have more issue with, due to the way geography is represented: "During times of the flood the Dark Sea separates the land masses by covering the banks." As a look at the map reveals, there is a very large stretch of land between the peninsula and the continent--a land with mountains (and thus elevation) no less! I believe we may need some other way of describing the fall of Ximax. Any ideas?


773 b.S. to 621 b.S. Decay of Ximax: I can actually believe the Volkek-Oshra staying. Life wouldn't be easy for them, but they have the resources to survive, and unlike many of the other residence of Ximax, the Volkek-Oshra still have a place to live. I assume that the dark elves would have destroyed much if not all of the city, laying waste to every structure they could find. However, because the catacombs are hidden away below the city, they would probably have survived the attack.

War is costly. I assume Centorauria didn't rebuild because they didn't have the money or available labor. Plus, with so many abandoning the city, what's the point?


621 b.S. Reopening of the Magical Academy: It mentions here that Ximax re-emerged as a neutral. I think we can safely say that Centorauria's failure to rebuild Ximax after the siege laid waste to all its claims over the city. All contracts would be null and void. When Ximax was rebuilt, it was rebuilt without allegiances.


620 b.S. The Claiming of the Ximaxian Staffs: This event is somewhat problematic, as the Ximaxian Staffs, as Xarl wrote them, numbered eleven and had little baring on the Ximaxian Magical System. I'm not sure if we should remove this, or seek to somehow replace it. What do you think?

   
611 b.S. Horth declared free Trading City: I'm not sure if that the mage was from Ximax was as significant as the fact she was a mage and able to defend herself and others. However, if you like, perhaps we might mention somewhere the increasing requests by thanes and dukes for mages from Ximax to serve their courts, both in the capacity of a protector and an adviser. This may also help to bring funding to the school in some manner.


580 b.S. to 565 b.S. Centorauria Annexes Lands: I could see Ximax being willing to negotiate its way back into the Centoraurian kingdom. I assume the deal would involve state funds flowing to support the school while Centorauria benefited from the influence of the city and school. What do you think?


550 b.S. Division of the City of Ximax: Perhaps it might be better to mention that Ximax reached one million residents or something, and that by this time the city had bifurcated into the inner and the outer, a wall girding the inner city. There are some random dated thrown into the Ximax entry that we might consider removing. I don't think "The Volkek-Oshra elder Narmatuk attempts to convince Xarl that his (now admitted) cause, that of rebuilding the city of Ximax, is hopeless." is of so much note.


ca. 549 b.S. to 501 b.S. Ximaxian Neutrality: I have no qualms with how this is written. The way it reads is consistent with and cognizant of what has already been mentioned in the history: "The Magical Academy remains neutral throughout the Second Sarvonian War. While wizards of both sides come to Ximax to relearn war-spells, very little violence ever occurs within city walls."


509 b.S. Independence of Ximax: This on the other hand, seems utterly baffling. I don't understand it either, Mina. This might be another event we need to remove--or, as you suggest, replace with what Ximax was doing before 482, when Ximax becomes part of Tharania. Perhaps we can elaborate more on Ximax as a growing town/school/place of influence, and mention the high demand for elven mages in courts or in trading towns to serve as an adviser or mediator.


482 b.S. Ximax part of Tharania: Recommend it reading more as so: "Ximax's Centoraurian population joins the newly-formed kingdom of Tharania, expecting to quickly gain advantage over the rest of the tribes thanks to Ximax's relatively unspoiled state. Sadly for the city, under Thar's rule reconstruction is quick, and it is not long before Ximax is once more the foremost in knowledge and magical learning. Many of the fallen-in catacombs are re-dug, some orcen mages make their homes there again."


542 b.S Naval Battle of Parda: This has a number of issues: 1) The Withdrawing Wave issue mentioned previously: there is no way that the land between the continent and the peninsula could possibly flood to that degree; 2) Ximax is neutral anyway, so there is no reason for the elves to attack. I'm not sure what to do about this, but my recommendation is to not include it.


225 b.S. to 218 b.S. The Lengthening of the Shadow: This seems all right to me. I don't think we need the "Ximax feels the Lengthening of the Shadow," as this is mere repetition.


217 b.S.  Explosion of Magical Power from the Orb of Ximax: This is problematic, and a bit vague. We need to determine more details of Ximax's involvement in SWIII and perhaps more details of what befall the city and the school during this time. Naturally, ten archmages cannot die, since the school can only have six. I'm not sure what Xarl may have been trying to do by keeping one alive, or if this had special significance...


I also notice a lot of digging and closing and redigging of catacombs. We might consider trying to remove these references to avoid confusion.


At this point, if I may suggest, perhaps it would be best to focus our discussions around those events within the Age of Blood before we move on to the Age of Change.
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« Reply #18 on: 10 September 2011, 12:24:07 »

The Land of Withdrawing Waves certainly needs some modification.  There's a gap in the mountains in the east, which is the only way in or out of the Ximaxian Plateau.  I've always wanted a river that flows from the interior of the peninsula through this area and into the Bay of the Sky.  If we could make it such that the river occasionally overflows and floods the gap, that could maybe be our new Land of Withdrawing Waves.  It should fit the description of the siege, at least. 
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« Reply #19 on: 10 September 2011, 12:37:36 »

I don't know; I'm still not convinced that the flooding could be so bad. It's also important to note, I think, that the land connecting the Peninsula is no small segment: it would probably take 6-7 days riding to travel from north to south. I feel as though it would have to be a very strange and sizable river to cross this space. I'm also not sure I understand the path of your river. Would it be possible to show me on the map where you'd like a river to run?
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #20 on: 10 September 2011, 12:52:32 »

Here's an old map I drew of Xaramon: http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14264.0;attach=2213;image

I'll probably change some details if I ever work on it again, but that should more or less illustrate what I meant.  If the parts of the river near its mouth floods, it could maybe prevent travel in or out of of the plateau, unless one could somehow go through the mountains.  I'm not taking about flooding the entire stretch of land between the peninsula and the mainland, just the gap in the eastern part of the mountains. 
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« Reply #21 on: 10 September 2011, 13:05:20 »

Ah, I see what you mean. I suppose the assumption is that, when the river floods, the main road into Ximax is underwater. Also assumed, though, is that the mountains are more or less uncrossable, which I'm not sure I buy. I still think it may be easier to say that, say, the dark elves found some pathway through the mountains to go around the mage-sentries guarding the flatland into the peninsula. Attacking from behind, they destroyed the human mages. Or, they went straight for the city, and destroyed it before the mages could stop them. There's some saying about the simplest explanation being the most likely...

And I do like having the rivers. Regardless of what we decide in terms of the siege, I see no reason why we can't have these rivers.
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #22 on: 10 September 2011, 13:20:43 »

Well, the mountains might not be entirely uncrossable, but they sure don't sound that easy to cross either.  Besides, any enemy doing that would have to deal with the Zirghurim too (Hoa Rusun is part of the Zurghurim's surface territories).  That said, attacking through the mountains sounds pretty interesting too.  Perhaps they lured the Ximaxian army out as a diversion, caused the floods to start early to prevent the Ximaxians from going back, then attacked Ximax with forces they had smuggled in through the mountains beforehand. 
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« Reply #23 on: 10 September 2011, 13:54:42 »

The only thing in that explanation that I'm unsure of is how the dark elves manage to flood the river early. They could do it by magic, but I would have to assume that the human mages would have magical prowess equal to that of their attackers, and would therefore be able to fight against such an effect. Perhaps if it were by surprise? Though I'm still not entirely certain if dark elves like those which attacked would have such power:


773 b.S.    The Fall of Ximax
Dark elves battle against human mages from Ximax at the passage between the Xaramon Peninsula and the continent. Because of its narrowness, the passage serves as a bottleneck for all attackers, and a prime position for the Ximaxian mages to defend their city. For four years the dark elves make little progress, both due to the mages blocking their way and because of the Wavewand River, which floods during the rainy season, blocking off access to the peninsula through the flatland.

The dark elves, seeing the futility of their strategy, devise a cunning plan. They carefully climb their way through the treacherous Hoa Rusun mountains to the north, traveling unnoticed around the unsuspecting mage army. By this method, they successfully circumvent the human guards and, once on the Peninsula, use dark and destructive magics to flood the Wavewand River, cutting off the mage's road back to the city. From here, the dark elves lay waste to Ximax, setting aflame the city's buildings and killing a great many of the inhabitants, thereby debilitating the magical resources of the human armies.

The dark elves leave Ximax charred and broken, and after they leave, most of the denizens follow, abandoning what is left of their home. Only the Volkek-Oshra, whose catacomb-abodes were left untouched, stay behind.
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #24 on: 10 September 2011, 15:09:34 »

Nice.    :)

Yeah, I think surprise would probably help.  The original entry had an Archmage betray Ximax too.  Perhaps the Ximaxian plan could be as stated in the current entry: attack the elves and feign retreat at the right moment to lure the elven army into getting caught in the flood.  The Archmage leaks the plan to the elves, and they counter with more or less you described.  Perhaps the Ximaxians were planning on speeding up the flooding themselves, since the elves would probably have been aware of the flood's timing after being there for 4 years.  All the elves had to do would be to covertly boost the Ximaxian's spells so that the flood came even sooner than the Ximaxians expected. 

I thought Wavewand was the name for the tributary that goes next to Ximax, not the main river itself?  Either way is fine with me though. 

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« Reply #25 on: 11 September 2011, 01:35:46 »

The betrayal of the archmage is mentioned in the subsequent piece on the Siege, but is never mentioned in the fall, I assumed because the betrayal more indirectly influenced the fall.

The problem I see with the story you've proposed is that it assumes a rather large number of dark elves. Somehow the dark elves have to maintain enough of an army to east of the mages so that they don't suspect that a great many of them are now traveling through the mountains and continue to go forth with their plans, and you also need a great many traveling through the mountain passes so that you have enough to effectively raid a rather sizable city.

If the mages are having to find against fewer dark elves, they may not choose to retreat, but rather advance, since the dark elves would be easy to defeat with far less of them.

The more troops the dark elves can send through the mountain passes, the more effectively they can raid the city (one surrounded by walls and probably with guards of its own). This is of course assuming that it would be difficult to push the floods back once they've come in. I assumed they would be, because it's often easier to cause a mess than pick it all up again.

Of course, the explanation I provided also assumes that the mages would not notice or would not suspect a lull in fighting. After all, as previously mentioned, a large number of the dark elves be taking the mountain paths, significantly depleting the number on the front lines. The mages might either have assumes a regroup or a retreat on the side of the dark elves. Either way, though, the mages would probably maintain their posts.
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #26 on: 11 September 2011, 02:49:19 »

I knew I was forgetting something.   buck  But sieges are more about keeping fresh supplies out and people in than fighting with them anyway, so long periods without actual fighting probably won't be too strange.  If the elves could draw off the troops in a way that won't be detected unless actual fighting happens, both stories could still work. 

Then again, depending on where the Ximaxian army's fortifications are, the elves might actually want them to attack.  Specifically, if they have fortified themselves behind the area that gets flooded (which would make sense since that way they don't get cut off from the city during the regular floods), then the elves would need to somehow get them to attack, so that they can be cut off by the flooding.  Perhaps the elves let the Ximaxians observe that they have fewer troops now, but in a way that isn't too suspicious, so the Ximaxians have some hope that they might be able to break the siege if they attack.  Then it's just a matter of getting them to attack at the right time.  Of course, there might be other reasons I haven't thought of that would lead to the fortifications being on the other side, which would invalidate this idea. 

Quote
At this point, if I may suggest, perhaps it would be best to focus our discussions around those events within the Age of Blood before we move on to the Age of Change.
I realised we kind of skipped the earlier stuff.  Maybe we should go back to them after we finish this discussion?

@Dek: Oops, I didn't mean to ignore your post.  What you said sounds pretty reasonable, but I suppose this means we won't be getting Centorauria and Kyrania fighting over Ximax.   :(  Is there maybe some other way Kyrania could still get involved in Ximaxian history?  It just seems a little odd to me if Kyrania hardly gets mentioned at all despite being one of Ximax's neighbours. 
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« Reply #27 on: 11 September 2011, 05:29:14 »

Perhaps we are spending time on details that may not need to be elucidated in such a sort section. Is it possible to let the current draft stand as it is, without the additional details? These details might be better suited to an entry on this event, rather than a section within an entry--though of course I am more than happy to make any additions you think we should include. It is really no trouble at all, and I would like you to feel the history is as complete as it needs to be. I trust your judgment.

The events in the ages before the Age of Blood I have already written up and put into the entry. Perhaps you might review them? I haven't added anything about skirmished between the Centoraurians and the Kyranians. Should we add some? And if so, where?


Has anyone heard from Bard Judith, by the way?
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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« Reply #28 on: 11 September 2011, 05:49:19 »

I was just thinking the same thing.  I'm alright with the draft you wrote, just a little fixated on the details.  It would be nice to have all the details worked out, but we might derail the topic if we become overly focused on this one part.  We can always come back to it later, or write an entry for it as you suggested. 

I didn't realise that you had updated the entry.  I think I'll go through it tomorrow; it's too late here now. 

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« Reply #29 on: 11 September 2011, 06:10:16 »

Thank you, Mina. I have gone ahead and added the Fall of Ximax. We're slowly working our way through the history. Thank you again for helping with this section! I realize that, at times, histories can be a bit laborious.


Does anyone have any ideas with regards to the Myth/Lore?
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
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[26 November 2016, 23:16:38]

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Members
Total Members: 1093
Latest: sh4l0nda12
Stats
Total Posts: 144684
Total Topics: 11053
Online Today: 214
Online Ever: 562
(Yesterday at 02:54:50)
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Last 10 Shouts:
24 October 2019, 13:31:22
Hi and happy 2019 shoutout from me.
22 February 2019, 06:47:10
A delightful 2019 shout-out to you all ^^
21 November 2018, 23:39:14
Seems none of us can stay away ..
09 March 2018, 23:37:46
Dream goes on as long as there are dreamers my friend.
17 January 2018, 01:23:22
Oh, how I wish we could reawaken the Dream :)
16 January 2018, 11:55:48
Hello everyone!
14 September 2017, 09:40:04
Hello all! It's been a minute since I poked my nose in here. Can't remember if I ever did anything useful.
09 May 2017, 14:17:18
Ah, too bad that internet is so restricted in China, Ferra. Can't be much fun surfing the web that way if Big Brother's watching you... Hope you enjoy your stay nevertheless!
03 May 2017, 17:41:19
Hi, dear Arti and other developers!

This year I am in China and cannot use any Google services including YouTube. For this reason I stopped uploading new Nepris videos. I can also not read any comments there.

It just crossed my mind that this information might be useful to you.

Cheers

F
26 March 2017, 12:48:56
Hello to anyone that might read this. :)
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