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Author Topic: Blossoming Heath  (Read 3291 times)
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« on: 21 September 2011, 12:34:01 »

Time to stretch the Styrash muscles. This is a loose translation of an old Irish/English folk song, so it may sound vaguely familiar. The white scratches below the Styrash version are just my notes.


Vocabulary

theirés (m.) "summer"
harós (m.) "winter"
avjeríl (m.) "spring"
quirchaín (m.) "fall"
avíán (v.) "arrive"
redolén (adj.) "fragrant"
fererá (prep.) "around"
huyán (v.) "grow"
graitán (v.) "pluck"/"pull"/"harvest"
dór (conj.) "if"
quém (pronoun) "you" (objective form)
tré (conj.) "when"
dá (conj.) "where"
iúm (pronoun) "me" (objective form)



Bejoná'pranían

Avíanté sóh avjeríl'avashín.
Bejonanté sáh redolén'pheranía.
Huyanté sáh aelién'merinín
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
Arantás qué?
 
Arantáns uás iuí graitán
sáh aelién'bejeraía
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
Arantás qué?

Searantá án zoumían iú  í quém
ér sáh aleá'almarían, siloás sóh ypheroím.
Taeantá sáh zoumían
é chán sáh merinían fá sáh pranís.
Arantás qué?

Arantáns uás iuí graitán
sáh aelién'bejeraía
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
Arantás qué?

Dór uná iú quém í ó'maachanían,
Araiá qué tré avíanté sóh avjeríl
ác dá bejonát sáh prán.
stygeyatás qué sáh eleyrían fá iúm.
Arantás qué?

Arantáns uás iuí graitán
sáh aelién'bejeraía
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
Arantás qué?




Bejoná'pranían
(Blossoming'heath [F.Acc.sg])

Avíanté sóh avjeríl'avashín.
(Arrive[Pres.3.pl.] the[M.def.pl.] spring'wind[M.Nom.pl.])
Bejonanté sáh redolén'pheranía.
(Blossom[Pres.3.pl.] the[F.def.pl.] fragrant'heath[F.Nom.pl])
Huyanté sáh aelién'bejeraía
(Grow[Pres.3.pl.] the[F.def.pl.] white'flowers [F.Nom.pl])
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
(Around the[F.def.pl.] blossoming'heath [F.Acc.sg])
Arantás qué?
(Go[Fut.2.sg] you[nom.sg])
 
Arantáns uás iuí graitán
(Go[Fut.1.pl] together we[nom.pl] pick[inf])
sáh aelién'bejeraía
the[F.def.pl.] white'flowers [F.Nom.pl])
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
(Around the[F.def.pl.] blossoming'heath [F.Acc.sg])
Arantás qué?
(Go[Fut.2.sg] you[nom.sg])

Searantá án zoumían iú  í quém
(Build[Fut.i.sg] a[F.indef.sg] home[F.Acc.sg] for you[obj.sg]
ér sáh aleá'almarían, siloás sóh ypheroím.
(by the[F.def.pl.] singing'river[F.Acc.sg], beneath the[M.def.pl.] sky[M.Acc.sg]
Wendrantá sáh zoumían
(Cover[Fut.i.sg] the[F.def.pl.] home[F.Acc.sg])
é chán sáh bejeráían fá sáh pranís.
(With all the[F.def.pl.] of the[F.def.pl.] heath[F.gen.sg]
Arantás qué?
(Go[Fut.2.sg] you[nom.sg])

Arantáns uás iuí graitán
(Go[Fut.1.pl] together we[nom.pl] pick[inf])
sáh aelién'bejeraía
the[F.def.pl.] white'flowers [F.Nom.pl])
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
(Around the[F.def.pl.] blossoming'heath [F.Acc.sg])
Arantás qué?
(Go[Fut.2.sg] you[nom.sg])

Dór uná iú quém í ó'maachanían,
If leave(pres.1.sg) I(nom.sg) you(obj.sg) for everlasting'sleep (F.Acc.sg)
Araiá qué tré avíanté sóh avjeríl
(Go[Imp.sg] you[nom.sg] when arrive[Pres.3.pl.] the[M.def.pl.] spring[M.Nom.sg.])
ác dá bejonát sáh prán.
(to where blossom[pres.3.sg] the[F.def.pl.] heath[F.Nom.sg])
stygeyatás qué sáh eleyrían fá iúm.
(Hear[Fut.2.sg] you[nom.sg]  the[F.def.pl.] voice[F.Acc.sg] of me[obf.sg]
Arantás qué?
(Go[Fut.2.sg] you[nom.sg])

Arantáns uás iuí graitán
(Go[Fut.1.pl] together we[nom.pl] pick[inf])
sáh aelién'bejeraía
the[F.def.pl.] white'flowers [F.Nom.pl])
fererá sáh bejoná'pranían.
(Around the[F.def.pl.] blossoming'heath [F.Acc.sg])
Arantás qué?
(Go[Fut.2.sg] you[nom.sg])



Translation

Blossoming Heath

The spring winds arrive
The fragrant trees blossom
The white flowers grow
around the blossoming heaths
Will you go?
 
We will go together to harvest
the white flowers
around the blossoming heaths
Will you go?
 
I will build for you a home
By the singing river beneath the sky
I will cover the home
with all the flowers of the heath.
Will you go?

We will go together to harvest
the white flowers
around the blossoming heaths
Will you go?

If I leave you for eternal sleep,
Go when the spring arrives
To where the heath blossoms
You will hear my voice.
Will you go?

We will go together to harvest
the white flowers
around the blossoming heaths
Will you go?
« Last Edit: 23 September 2011, 12:28:22 by Rayne (Alýr) » Logged

"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang
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« Reply #1 on: 23 September 2011, 02:55:00 »

*sings*

Oh, the summer time is coming,
And the trees are sweetly blooming,
And the wild mountain thy-hy-hy-hyme
Grows around the blooming heather.
Will ye go, lassie, go,
And we'll all go together
To pluck wild mountain thy-hy-hyme...


I know nothing of Styrash, and no doubt mispronounce it awfully, but I can say this of your poem: that it rolls off the tongue beautifully in my home-made pronounciation. I'm impressed!
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #2 on: 23 September 2011, 03:49:52 »

Well, Styrásh poems pose quite a problem for several reasons, Rayne...

- One of them is that the language isn't properly developed, so there is no definition of conjugations for past tense or future and you just assume things without laying down the rules first.

- Whether the poem is proper Styrásh also has to be thoroughly reject, which amounts to work, basically for me, because no-one else know Styrásh that well. And this can get very complicated, because it's all just based on fragments of the language. Even basic things like pronouns are still up in the air. It all seems a bit early for that. We assume that it's an elaborate language, but it really isn't - it's still a language we use if we need ancient terms, nothing more.

- Styrásh poems also don't hold that much appeal to most Santharians, so it's mainly academic work to write such poems and discuss the Styrásh at length.

- Also, independent from the Styrásh, if you post a poem, don't forget to put it into proper context with introduction/teaser etc. Poems without context aren't accepted in the Compendium.

So yeah, it's all a bit difficult to have time for it and get it right, that's the main thing I have to say at this point.
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Mina
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« Reply #3 on: 23 September 2011, 04:16:58 »

I hope you don't mind me commenting; I see that it still has the pencil icon. 

There are actually already words for "cover" and "flower", taean and merin (m.).

 I think you also got some of the cases wrong.  Accusative is used for direct objects, and indirect objects most likely use the dative or ablative cases.  So, for example, in "We will go together to harvest the white flowers around the blossoming heaths", my guess would be that "white flowers" (direct object of "harvest") is in the accusative case, and "blossoming heaths" (indirect object of "harvest") in ablative. 

Of course, the actual details of how each case is used varies across languages, and according to Wikipedia, some languages do mark certain indirect objects with accusative case.  But, considering that the definition of accusative case is that it marks direct objects, those are most probably rare exceptions. 
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #4 on: 23 September 2011, 07:12:16 »

 heart Thank you, Shabakuk. I'm glad you like it, and it makes me happy that you recognize its inspiration.


Artimidor, I realized many years ago that there was issue with Styrásh poems when you no longer commented on my first Styrásh poem, here, which I began way back in 2004. Your last comment was in 2006, and though I tried to revive it, could not do so. I think I sensed the apprehension growing in you--because you are right in everything you have stated.

There is a reason I have kept the pencil. You know me, Artimidor--Save for in group or joint projects, I rarely post things in WIP format. I know the language is still in its infancy, the grammar inchoat and somewhat nebulous, the vocabulary haphazard and half-developed. The language is a work in progress, so anything written in it should be, too.

I enjoy, it though--writing in Styrash, in part because of the limited vocabulary. The words we have in the dictionary are ones we developed based on our communal perception of elves--who they are and what they represented. It's all in the words and the language. So creating a poem in Styrásh seems to reflect the voice and idea of elves, as we've come to perceived them, and I like that perception. I think it's beautiful.


Mina, thank you for letting me know about those two words. I was searching, but for some reason my eyes must have passed over them. I've made changes to incorporate those two words.

As for the grammar, it seems somewhat uncertain. According to Wikipedia (not the most reliable source of information, but still:

Quote
In linguistics, ablative case (abbreviated abl) is a name given to cases in various languages whose common characteristic is that they mark motion away from something, though the details in each language may differ.

Just for reference, the others are:

Quote
The accusative case (abbreviated acc) of a noun is the grammatical case used to mark the direct object of a transitive verb. The same case is used in many languages for the objects of (some or all) prepositions.

Quote
In grammar, genitive (abbreviated gen; also called the possessive case or second case) is the grammatical case that marks a noun as modifying another noun. It often marks a noun as being the possessor of another noun but it can also indicate various relationships other than possession; certain verbs may take arguments in the genitive case; and it may have adverbial uses (see Adverbial genitive).

Quote
The vocative case (abbreviated voc) is the case used for a noun identifying the person (animal, object, etc.) being addressed and/or occasionally the determiners of that noun. A vocative expression is an expression of direct address, wherein the identity of the party being spoken to is set forth expressly within a sentence.

Quote
The dative case (abbreviated dat, or sometimes d when it is a core argument) is a grammatical case generally used to indicate the noun to whom something is given, as in "George gave Jamie a drink".

I believe Styrash is based loosely on German, but unfortunately I don't have the expertise or knowledge to know how these cases are defined in that language. It may be useful to have it broken down in an average sentence, perhaps translated in English...
« Last Edit: 23 September 2011, 12:40:30 by Rayne (Alýr) » Logged

"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Mina
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« Reply #5 on: 23 September 2011, 13:44:00 »

I believe it had some Latin influence as well, and that's probably where the cases came from.  That would explain the oddness (well, I find it odd...) of having an ablative case without any other case that marks location (eg. locative case).  If that's true, it could probably be used for many things, with prepositions to provide the finer distinctions. 
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #6 on: 28 September 2011, 02:26:19 »

Short note to clear that up: Pronunciation is based on a mix of German and French, grammar is pretty much based on Latin influences with cases like vocative, ablative and all the like.
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« Reply #7 on: 28 September 2011, 02:39:42 »

So would it be right to say that the Styrash ablative case has the same range of functions as the Latin ablative, plus the Latin vocative?
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #8 on: 28 September 2011, 03:02:26 »

Yep, that was the basic idea.
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« Reply #9 on: 28 September 2011, 03:17:40 »

Yay!  That helps a lot!  grin

Could it be renamed though?  "Ablative case" is actually a rather odd name for what it does.  Maybe it could be called "adverbial case", which is an alternative name for the Latin ablative case? 
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« Reply #10 on: 28 September 2011, 03:20:58 »

Well, isn't the term "ablative case" an established term in grammar? So why not just continue to use it that way?
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« Reply #11 on: 28 September 2011, 03:33:34 »

Well, in general, "ablative case" just means the case that is used to mark motion away from something.  I think it's mostly in Latin that it does so much in addition to that.  So, nothing wrong with keeping the name, but I suspect renaming it might reduce confusion over what it does. 

Come to think of it, maybe a better alternative that renaming it would be to state it in somewhere obvious (maybe the Principles page?) that Styrash grammar is supposed to be Latin-like.  The page mentions French and German, but nothing about Latin influences. 
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« Reply #12 on: 28 September 2011, 04:02:43 »

Well, the latter is easily done. I've added the Latin reference now as the first bullet under Pronunciation/Grammar Main Principles on the Styrßash Principle page to make that perfectly clear :)
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« Reply #13 on: 28 September 2011, 04:14:04 »

Thanks!   grin
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