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Author Topic: Vardınn Master Plan Discussion  (Read 34909 times)
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Rayne (Alır)
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« on: 09 November 2011, 12:22:17 »

The thread for discussing development of Vardınn!

My task is of course to begin to outline the duchies--establishing name, size, and location, and basing these duchies, if possible, on the unfolding history of the region. Naturally there will be a lot of guesswork on my part, and I encourage any following to correct me at any step. Establishing duchies will, I think, flow neatly into politics and the recent situation.

I would like to also get places developed. I will need to revisit some of the older entries, such as the entry of Vontron, and see if improvement might need to be made, but this is not an immediate priority, given that Vardınn has quite a great deal left to be written!

I will also work on revisiting tribes and seeing what may need to be expanded or altered, as well as the best means to accomplish this.

A long term project, but I'm sure well worth it. I appreciate any advice or feedback anyone might have.
« Last Edit: 11 November 2011, 12:40:59 by Rayne (Alır) » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: 10 November 2011, 04:26:20 »

Wow! That's quite a start of a new project with everything you've put together there, Rayne!  thumbup Aura +1 at any rate for all the time you've already put into it!

Vardınn sounds like a great province to tackle as a team project after Manthria as the first Santharian province, where indeed a lot of development has happened after the map was put together. There should have been more development on major towns there, though, as I feel that getting the central towns done is crucial for the region, so maybe in Vardınn we'll look more into that. This also includes major elven, dwarven or halfling towns. Vardınn with its Erpheronian roots is definitely one of the regions which are very traditionally medieval, the way you had it in Europe back in the middle ages. Power is centered around the military, the classes system is very predominant here, people are proud, bordering on hubris, there's lots of intrigue and fight for power - at least it was that way in the olden days. Milkengrad is also included in the mix, and Curgan provided good old Greek battles and tragedy with that city as well, so it fits right in. In short: perfect conditions for all kinds of heroic myths, lots of lore, stories about expansion to new shores and founding of new colonies - all those things have their cradle here. And speaking about elves: The Thaelon is one of the most fascinating elven forests - all you need to let fantasy reign. - With other words: A very interesting region for me as well!

Some first notes:

- Voldar is listed as "completed" in your list, Rayne, but it is a very basic entry at the moment, not even made with the new design (no entry sections etc.) - so it should be marked as "should be revised".

- You offer a file called "Vardınn history" for download, but it doesn't have any ending, and I'm not sure what it's supposed to be. Doesn't open properly regardless how I rename it.

- Personally I think that the detailed map should be done first, at least the concept. By looking at the map a lot of new ideas will come and can still be integrated. But I would suggest that those interested in helping this develop should take a part of the monster map and sketch things they'd like to have on it, so that we can put together a rough development map. I'd like to work on another map similar to Manthria - at least in the long run, and I'd be happy to start with it when I have the information.

- As far as organization is concerned I'd also finally like to get provinces overviews done, similar to overviews of beasts. Would look like this: The sections of the overview entries would comprise a) capital b) cities c) towns d) villages e) other places of interest, and each element listed would have the number of inhabitants mentioned, size, duchy, and the regular overview stuff. Cool would be to have the map displayed on top of the entry and by clicking on a town you'd scroll down to the description, with the back arrow you could go back etc. The picture of the place would be shown to the left as in all other overviews, maybe with the difference that in case the place is not developed we'd have an empty circle, and if it is in fact developed, yet we don't have a picture we'd change the colour somewhat. If a place doesn't even have a short description, they'd be listed as "Further settlements" in the appropriate section. This could BTW also be done in the other overview. That way it would work as some sort of LED and we'd see immediately what is already done and what isn't. Well, these are my rough ideas anyway.

I'd like to try this out maybe first with the Manthrian province, and then we could move to the Vardınn province. What do you say?
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« Reply #2 on: 10 November 2011, 04:43:30 »

BTW: Talking about the map on top of these overviews - here's an example how I could imagine this to work - by allowing the viewer zoom in and out to view locations and then clicking on the spot. I don't know if tooltip texts and linking will be possible in a picture where this script is used, but I hope so - it would look pretty cool methinks...
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« Reply #3 on: 10 November 2011, 08:24:00 »

Rayne, I am here to support you anytime you would like a picture.  Let me know if you have any requests for the region.
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« Reply #4 on: 10 November 2011, 08:49:08 »

Ditto.

I wonder if we have a heron entry?  Would love to write it just so I can do a marsh picture with a great greyish-blue bird stalking through it....
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« Reply #5 on: 10 November 2011, 14:08:19 »

I've come down with an awful cold, so forgive me if my response sounds a little drowsy.


Artimidor
Thank you! I've spent quite a long time--weeks/months--compiling all the information during my relatively exiguous free time. Before beginning this project, I thought it best to gain a good understanding of what we had and what we didn't, and try to present my findings in a way that not only made clear opportunities for development, but also make it relatively easy to begin to take advantage of those opportunities.

MAP: I agree that a detailed map should be a top priority. Unfortunately, I'm not necessarily savvy enough to create one on my own, so your offer is very appreciated!. I admit, too, that I do not  necessarily have a good idea of the detailed features. However, if I looked at the map, I could probably begin to develop this. I also like the idea of an "interactive" map. Manthria has the guinea pig works for me! I don't mind waiting.

OLD ENTRIES: You are also correct regarding the need to revise many of the entries. I will begin to go through and assess what entries may require a dusting off and fattening up!

SETTLEMENTS: I'm still trying to decide how to break up the province into duchies. Mina did such a great job with the Xaramon duchies--but I'm still scouring history and battles to try to guess where the borders for each duchy might fall. This may make it easier to identify what cities are duchy-capitals, so to speak, and what duchies need further development.

I've also done some loose brainstorming on the main settlement of the Aellenrhim elves based on some resent trips I've taken. There are a number of places I would like to hand a hand in developing; this is certainly one. I would love to have a group project to develop the city of Voldar, but with activity the way it's been, this may prove difficult.

HISTORY: I've sent you the file over email. Let me know if you are able to open this!


Seeker:
Thank you for the offer! You do such amazing artwork; I would love if your travels took you down to Vardınn. I can't think of anything in particular in particular in terms of pictures... perhaps a landscape with one of our places? I admit, I'm so grateful simply to have pictures done that I've never thought of what I might request had one been offered!


Judith:
I should love to have some heron for the province! I had never thought of this. While there are no marshlands apparent in the province, I admit that my perception of the Heath of Jernais is of an occasionally marshy place. I read the Hound of the Baskervilles not long ago and was ensorcelled by the view of heath/moors as peaceful almost to the level of eerie-ness. This might be a perfect habitat for your heron!
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« Reply #6 on: 10 November 2011, 15:36:18 »

You'll get another aura soon for your efforts, Rayne! :)

As for the Vardýnn history document you sent: It's a DOCX file, a next generation Office XML based document, which a regular Office installation cannot read. So much about compatibility... lol Anyway, just save it with "Save As..." and then select the regular DOC type - then you can open it with every program, which can read a standard DOC-file. :)
« Last Edit: 11 November 2011, 03:34:21 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #7 on: 10 November 2011, 22:30:59 »

Quote
SETTLEMENTS: I'm still trying to decide how to break up the province into duchies. Mina did such a great job with the Xaramon duchies--but I'm still scouring history and battles to try to guess where the borders for each duchy might fall. This may make it easier to identify what cities are duchy-capitals, so to speak, and what duchies need further development.
Mostly, I went with geography.  That was partially because there wasn't much history at the time, but geography is generally quite important in determining borders too.  After a quick look at the Centoraurian entry, I'd suggest the following areas for duchies:

  • Helcrah (between the lakes and the Goltherion forest)
  • Aurora Fields, including Salsair
  • that area west of the Aurora Fields (Thyslan, Crow Hills, and their surroundings)
  • Milkengrad, and the rest of the island it's on

There's some historical basis for them, from the entry, and they seem to more or less make sense geographically too.  I didn't check the more recent histories, but I don't think there were any significant changes. 
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« Reply #8 on: 11 November 2011, 04:32:28 »

To give it a start with the map approach I've prepared a cut of the Vardınn province from our monster map (=rough Santharian map blown up to match the Manthrian map ratio). So now I have it at hand when I'll start with a more detailed map.

I took that map and sketched the province's borders and put in all the key towns, forests, heaths etc. Now taking into account that the borders of the provinces were indeed made basically to reflect geographical ones, I've also tried to use that approach with a duchies proposal. It's partly the way Mina suggested as well. At the moment Milkengrad BTW is completely separate, though, as I thought it is it's own thing more or less, but of course this could still be changed if needed. This is not set in stone, just a basic map to discuss about it.

So with this proposal we'd have 7 duchies at the moment - as I've noticed I forgot number 3... lol Let me know what you think.

The plan would be to decide first
a) on the final borders, then
b) give these duchies their names and
c) hand out monster sized maps of single duchies to people interested in them, so that they can place settlements, streams, hills and other geographical ideas on them (just mark that somehow with a painting program).
d) After that I'd collect these suggestions and try to work on the detailed map.

Ok, so here's the map:

« Last Edit: 11 November 2011, 04:44:16 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #9 on: 11 November 2011, 08:15:11 »

The Thaelon should probably be a styrcal, just a thought.
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« Reply #10 on: 11 November 2011, 11:41:14 »

And of course the dwarves claim the area beneath the High (and Low) Fores, but they don't pay a lot of attention to the humans running around on the Surface.... :)
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« Reply #11 on: 11 November 2011, 12:02:33 »

Wonderful!

I actually like keeping Milkengrad more or less its own duchy (perhaps the duchy might also be named Milkengrad). I think it might be best if there were only one duchy bordering Enthronia. In all my historical research, there was only one named duchy--that of Ancyros, which bordered Enthronia and was often fought over by Erpheronians and Caltharians. The only way I could conceive of this duchy was to allow it to wholly border the Cylian River separating the two provinces... but perhaps this is a rather heavy-handed way to go about it. What do you think?

I couldn't find names for some of Vardynn's islands--specifically the island just west of the Crow Hills, the island housing Witchking's Cliff, and the two islands just to the north of it. Do you know if there are names for these four islands of as yet?

Also, is the Cylian River considered part of Vardynn or part of Enthronia?

I will beginning brainstorming duchy names. I have uploaded a .doc of the history in the Master Plan thread on the history post. Please let me know if this is accessible! Thank you, Artimidor!
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« Reply #12 on: 11 November 2011, 15:28:18 »

I think your idea for Ancyros makes sense.  Does it include Alvang?  

Cylian River is the border between Vardynn and Enthronia; I don't think we need to worry too much about which it belongs to.  

Had a look at the history thread we referenced for Ximax's history and came up with a new list.  

  • Ancyros
  • Jernais (city + Heath)
  • Helcrah
  • Aurora, including Cemphiria (ceded to Centoraurians in 1503)
  • Thysland?  (the Thyslan area; name from the Centoraurian entry)
  • Milkengrad
  • (can't think of a name) the northwestern islands
  • Voldar (maybe with Westhron?)
  • Bolder (Stycal)
  • Thaelon (Stycal)

The Goltherlon and the southern parts of the High Fores have been left out because I'm not quite sure what to do with them.  The High Fores just don't seem to appear in history much.  The simple solution would be to make it part of Helcrah, I guess.  The Goltherlon was abandoned by the Goltherrhim elves long before the founding of Santharia, so it won't be a Stycal.  It doesn't seem to fit very nicely into the existing duchies, except maybe Helcrah.  On the other hand, it's been inhabited by the Golgnomes for the past 1000 years or so, so perhaps it has something similar to Stycal status (but with a different name)?  

Edit: Had a few more ideas. 

Cemphiria could perhaps be grouped with the Heath of Jernais, instead of the Aurora Fields.  The Heath of Jernais was ceded to the Centoraurians at the same time as Cemphiria was, and it would make sense for them to be grouped together.  No word on whether the City of Jernais was included; it could just as easily be part of Ancyros, although having the Heath of Jernais and the City of Jernais belonging to different political subdivisions might seem a little odd. 

Milkengrad and Voldar could perhaps be free cities.  Neither of them have that much land outside of the cities, especially Milkengrad. 

Alternatively, for Voldar, perhaps the Voldar region (the part surrounded by Paragonj island, and the Thaelon and Bolder forests) could be the presonal domain of the Thane, rather than a duchy.  Assuming that the Thane of Vardynn is a hereditary position, it would make sense for it to own some land too. 
« Last Edit: 11 November 2011, 17:09:08 by Mina » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: 12 November 2011, 03:12:49 »

Some notes and a map revision ahead!

- Yes, the History document opens now - all fine!

- No name known for the island with Witchking's cliff.

- The Cylian river basically marks the border between Enthronia and Vardınn - now also reflected in my latest map version, see below.

- I've also made the whole Thaelon a Stycál (elven territory) and the same with the Bolder, following Valan's and Mina's suggestions.

- The Jernais Duchy now stretched from Cemphiria to Ephirn's lake, it also inlcudes the Twinnean Peaks.

- The Goltherlon elves are now extinct, so there's no need for a Stycál there, but that corner with the Hèckra volcano and Alvang is known for a lot of bad things that happened, so I've put that all together. It should probably be one of the more neglected lands, no big industry there, myth and lore land, gnomes could thrive there however, with volcanic ashes as ingredients for their experiments, that sort of thing.

- The dwarves I thought would maybe think they're better off with a human duchy than the Alvang duchy, I've put them into the Aurora one.

- Finally I thought Voldar should have more land, now that we've cut land in the east and north, so I added the islands to the west. We still have land in that region available, so it could as well be part of Voldar, and Accam and Westhron could become larger key towns. We need some major ports anyway, as the Erpheronians headed off from there to the west and north to build new colonies.

- Churican and Witchking's Cliff island form one duchy, which ii big enough methinks. These islands probably are similar, the Ireland of Santharia.

Ok, here's my suggestion on a modifed map:

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« Reply #14 on: 12 November 2011, 09:06:55 »

I love how the map is coming along! My thanks to all the great feedback, and of course to Artimidor, who has been so kind and patient with updating the duchy borders...

The duchy partitions looks great! My only suggestion is that perhaps the easternmost duchies might be altered such that the duchy that includes the Ancytharian Sea might also border Enthronia. This duchy has already been given a name in the annals of history--Ancyros--whose etymology I believed is tied to the physical features it contains.

Perhaps Ancyros might include Alvang, Goltherlon, Heckra, the Twinnean Peaks and Erphirn's Lake and another yet-unnamed duchy might include Jernais, the Heath of Jernais, and Cemphiria? Ancyros was noted for having rich resources, though this makes the Jernais duchy a bit minuscule... any ideas?

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