Stratanian/Uderza Concept

Dreamer's Code
Bellring a Member
Report Mistakes/Typos
Report Easter Eggs

About Masterplans
Santhworld: Program
SW.: Game Designer
SW.: Treasure Shoals
SW.: Lorehold
SW.: Nepris
SW.: Trivia
Santharia: Manthria
Nybelmar: Zhunite Pl.
Sarvonia: Icelands

World Map Overview
Distances in Caelereth
Climate Map of Sarvonia
Continent: Aeruillin
Continent: Akdor
Continent: Cyhalloi
Continent: Nybelmar
Continent: +Details NE
Continent: +Details NW
Continent: +Details SE
Continent: +Details SW
Continent: +Politics
Continent: Sarvonia
Lands: Icelands
Lands: +Tribes
Lands: Caael'heroth
Lands: Iol Peninsula
Lands: Kanapans
Lands: Kuglim Lands
Kingdom: Santharia
Kingdom: +Ancient
Kingdom: +Provinces
Kingdom: +Rivers
Kingdom: +Routes
Details: Manthria
Details: Ráhaz-Dáth
Details: Silvermarshes

Create Beasts
Create Plants
Create Races/Tribes
Create People
People Nomenclature
Create Places
Create Gods, Myths...
Create Spells/Magic
Create Library Entries
Create Misc. Stuff

Reserving Resources
Arbaon Pictures
Bard Judith Pictures
Eratin Pictures
Faugar Pictures
Grunok's Pictures
Ingeborg Pictures
Isilhir Pictures
Koldar Pictures
Linda Tso Pictures
Quellion Pictures
Quellion Pictures II
Shayan's Pictures
Seeker Pictures
Sheil Pictures
Sheil Pictures II

Proverbs & Sayings
Styrásh (Elvish)
Thergerim (Dwarvish)
Kuglimz'Seitre
Kh'omchr'om (Orcish)
Trollish

[Artimidor Federkiel]

I've discussed this topic with Gean this morning on ICQ, adding my own ideas to the whole thing, so here is the discussion in detail so that you can see what we've come up with (Gean will integrate these ideas into his Compendium entries):

A. "I personally also have some ideas concerning the desert people... - First: Well, the Stratanian kingdom consists mainly of a few larger towns and lots of deserts. That's why I thought that the people living in the desert don't care too much about the king. - Sounds logical?

G. "Quite logical yes, I think we're talking about a real desert tribe of nomads here right? It could be the remnants of the original population..."

A. "Yup, I thought they have some sort of an own society there, with own "kings" and some important "lords" (earls) ruling on his side at every larger desert region (would need to find appropriate titles, thought about titles like 'Or Chalaem or 'Han Devain etc.)

They know about the king etc., but don't really care. They accept that traders cross their cities, but get money from them. They guide them e.g. through the deserts. Some rulers maybe quite powerful and rule with strong hand.

So they would have some sort of small kingdom, and Uderza could be a place where one of these "kings" can be found. Would be ideal for the game. You could get some missions there in order to prove yourself."

A. "hmmm and I think the king then doesn't mind to much aboutit either... then that's settled....
I was thinking of having Rahmat maybe as one of the desert people towns, but making it a tent city, so the exact location may differe every once in a while when they move a little..."

G. "sounds good... however, what happens when Santhros arrives, or even before that, when the sevral towns of Stratania unite? will they try to subdue them or not? thoughts?"

G. "Agreed, Uderza could be quite important as well as it's one of the main water suppliers within the region...

G. "the moving town would also be interesting asp layers would have hard times to find the city each time again.."

Santhros: Haven't thought of that currently, but maybe the "desert lords" have lost influence already at this time.

A. "Stratanian king: I'd say - he has to live with them if he wants it or not. In fact they can be quite important for him, because they can fully block trade in the region if they're not supporting the king."

G. "yup I think that sounds good... a sort of mutual understanding, they both need eachother... desert people will need many goods the harbour towns import from the north..."

A. "Moving town brings the idea to my head: The "desert lord" should be on a hidden location somewhere so that he can't be toppled and that he can exercise his power from afar. Meeting the "desert lord" could be something very important in the game e.g."

G. "hmmm yes good! he would then have sort of body guard and a constantly moving caravan in which he lives troughout his land... but this means he oculd as well be enocuntered accidently.... we might give him better a standard vast location"

[Artimidor Federkiel]

A. "In Uderza e.g. you would only be able to speak to some of his "guards" or substitutes. They are the true rulers for the people and some may reign pretty violently to satisfy the great lord - not all, we should look to have great varitey here so that the player can choose where he wants to join etc.

Yup, maybe a permanent, well guarded location for the ruler might the wisest..."

G. "ok - so we would have only something like representatives from the Desert Lord in the towns, which have to report to him... we might make as well a mission that you can secretly follow one going to the Lord and so find the location..."

A. "Yeah, I thought that depends on which organisation you join. You can join the "desert lord's" representatives and work for him, or some dark organisation which tries to topple him..."

G. "sonds good - we could also make the stratanian lord try toppling him if they don't agree with the current Lord's policies, and following from this get strife between the cities because some agree with the Lord and some not etc..."

A. "Yeah, also it would be possible that one or more of the lord's sub-ordinates try to topple him. The whole thing is based on a hierarchy of power, so there's enough room for intrigues etc. Could be very interesting for a player, I guess. Especially for a multiplayer online RPG..."

G. "btw if these ideas are to be used, the Desert Lords still must have power in Santhros time, otherwisse it can't be usedf or the game as it happen s1600 b.S."

A. "Ah, yes. Sounds logical. Hmmm... Well, then they must still have maintained their powers through all these years, not caring much about Stratania and Santharia either..."

G. "yes, and because they don't care to much, but the others(STratania/Santharia) do because they pass through their regions or trad... this might have let to some sort of balance..."

Okeydokey. That's it for now. Comments always welcomed!

[Koldar Mondrakken]

Hmmm, the idea sounds pretty good. Only problem I see is that the Stratanian king just can't accept another ruler controlling a valueable town and being able to break all trade in a region. That would weaken Strata in a very critical manner because it would be constantly weakened by internal affairs. Even if both sides are good people there might be lots of prejudices.

I think that Uderza should be controlled by administrators of the king but as it is in the middle of the desert, lots of nomads may have settled here and so the 'desert lord' has lots of influence in the town as he has many allies here. (His officals may have an own seat in the "Nomad's District" while the King's administrators control the inner city with the marketplaces, warehouses and so on.
This would even add to more intrigue as the king needs the town to keep the trade going in the south and the 'desert Lord' might seek for it to get a source of income.
The military presence of Stratanian and Santharian troops should be quite big, but still both sides know that the Santharian troops are good enough to hold the town but when they enter the desert they might be nomad's prey.

I think this still gives the 'desert Lord' enough power to have major influence but still maintains the integity of a whole region.

In times of peace this way would sound more stable to me than two equal rulers in a region but still allows major uprises and revolts in times of unrest.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Gean Firefeet]

edit: I hadn't read your post Koldar when I posted this, I'll try and defend what I wrote down below. I think the proince is not split up by its division in settled nomadsand traditionals nomads. Fact is namely that both depend on each other. The real desert people need the income & goods they get from allowing passage to the caravans, while the Stratanians need them to provide water and other resourcesf or a safe trip through the planes of sand. Because of this depending I don't think there's a need for large government presence and I therefore think Uderza should be a desert people town, not Stratanian. But let's see what others think of this.


STRATANIANS,
the. The ancient Stratanian Kingdom was identified with its large desert, the RAHAZ-DATH located at the very south of the southern SARVONIAN continent. The region where the
kingdom of Stratania was located currently represents the Santharian province of Truban. When the several city-states united at the beginning of the AGE OF BLOOD, they choose a Coat of Arms which clearly represented their kingdom.
Coat of Arms: In the centre a tall Black Desert Rose is positioned, surrounded by a green Rock Snake. Above the rose is a golden sun representing the Burning God and the heat of the kingdom. On the right bottom three blue, four-pointed stars are representing the three major towns - STRATA, Thalambath and Bardavos - and the four directions of the wind, because of the important function of the sea and trade.

The tribe of the Stratanians is of origin nomadic. Going from oasis to oasis they lived in the whole desert region of the southern peninsula. They communicate of course by speech, but their language consists of a large number guttural sounds, which may sound "weird" into the ears of outsiders, but they practice common speech as well. Their government system makes that the desert is split into several regions, each region led by an Earl. Above these Earls the King stood with an unspeakable title(because of the guttural sounds), commonly referred to as the "Desert Lord".
It must have about 3 or 2 millennia before Santhros that the people started to settle down in small communities. The first example of this we find in Thalambath, which may existed even milennia before other communities came into existence.
With the founding of communities trade came into being, at first only with the communties together, later on as well with towns from outside the tribe. There came a split between the people who decided to settle down and the the people who choose to live the traditional nomadic way. This split up became even graver when the refugess from Voldar arrived in the Year of Darkness and founded Strata on the southermost cape. Now trade oversea became important too, but still many caravans passed through around the desert, they didn't how to cross it properly.
It was here that the traditional desert tribe found it's power. In exchange of goods and money they led the caravans through the desert, and the traders solely depended on them for succesful arrival on the other side.
So a balance of power between the nomads and the residents rose, and both depended on eachother. The balance is fragile, as is proven by several occassions in history. It happened that the cities didn't like the policies of the desertpeople or the other way around, but skirmishes happened usually resulting in blocades on the trade routes and stagnating resources for both sides. But usually they came to a mutual understanding, for survival of both civilisations depended on their coöperation.
Due to their coöperation with the cities the nomads found some communties as well. Most notable is Uderza, which is an important halting-place for caravans coming from Thalambath and Strata heading for Varcopagos. It has a large oasis nearby which gives it a powerful place as water supplier for all the caravans. Another town of the nomads is Rahmat, which consists only of tents. The nomadic tradition is still maintained here as every once in a while the city moves to another location, to the extreme annoyance of outsiders that try and locate the city on their way through the desert.
The trade cities are Thalambath, which is the present leader of the province and largest city of the region; Strata, of old the wealthiest city because of it's intercontinental trade with Shan'Thai, but slowly gave in power to Thalambath, resulting finally in the demise of the city. Currently Strata is rebuilding some of its old glory; last important city is Bardavos, city of artists and other intellectual persons. It has the notable democratic government system, one of the few communities in Santharia which has this.


Continued this from the existing entry on the Stratanians. I don't know if I've covered anything, let's say this is the first draft eagerly waiting for constructive criticism both positive and negative!

Edited by: Gean Firefeet at: 7/7/01 12:04:57 pm

[Koldar Mondrakken]

Okay, zip the strong governmental presence. But I would think that it would be more reasonable for Stratanians and Santharians to once found this town as a tradepost and supplystation than for nomadic people to found it, esspecially when this tradepost would be halfway on several important trade routes.

I just think that Strata and lateron Santharia would want to have at least some presence there because Uderza is one of only few locations where they actually have some influence on these nomadic tribes.

Perhaps Uderza became a town where corrupt and bad Santharian administrators and soldiers are sent for punishment. Strata/Santharia would not have any more impoertant role than show its presence to the tribes while Uderza itsself is governed by settled nomads.

A Stratanian presence would give even more possibilities for gameplay although it might get more difficult, too. Beside that it would be also very interesting to have a place where many different interests are focussed.(independance of the tribes, trade for Strata, territorial hegemony for Santharia, supplies for merchants)

Just some additional ideas. It's your province, so I don't feel offended if you don't like my suggestions. In the end it's your choice!

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Ok, here are some more comments: I would give a exotic titles to the "desert lords" instead of "king" and "earl", this sounds too Santharian. Those people feel to be different and this also expresses in their speech. However, foreigner or traders passing Uderza may call them still "desert lords". The term "government system" is also a bit unlucky, because it's not really a system, but something that had developed during the course of time, depending on the might of certain people within the regions, I'd say. It's nothing planned, simply something which developed.

I would also stress the powerful position of the lords and the many intrigues taking place there and mention their hideout so that they cannot easily be toppled. And that the regions are mainly ruled by their representatives etc. Maybe we should also mention how many lords there are supposed to exist.

And: We would need a name for the nomadic tribe(s). The "Stratanians" may be confusing. These are in fact all the people of the kingdom, which comprise the nomadic people too.

To Koldar's comment: I personally think that we shouldn't let the Santharians let have a big presence in Uderza. Reason: As I've said everything developed here in this region. There are thousands of years of tradition there. Uderza was occupied by the nomadic people and the "desert lords" ruled already for a very long time. It wouldn't make sense to pacify these people for the Santharians or for the Stratanian king: There is not much hope to win a war in the midst of the desert, especially against desert people who know the region very well. That's why the "desert lords" managed to survive so long.

I agree though: We can have a presence of Santharians (the way you mentioned it, Koldar), but not too much. Stratanians of course are also in Uderza (as well as agents from other "desert lords"), but also only in a representative way, I suggest.

[Koldar Mondrakken]

Still argueinG!

They can't win this war but they can't let these little warlords think they can do what they want, either. (their point of view).

I'm just thinking that Uderza is far too important for the travelling through the desert that any leader in Thalambath, Strata and Varcopas could leave this city without any attention. Most merchants would be Stratanians (I refer with this name only to the people living at the coast!) IMO as they have the only reason to transport goods anywhere. So these people would need some kind of representative and should be IMO relatively strong (the amount of people I mean!)

BTW: I was just wondering why a seafaring nation would transport big amounts of goods via land. That is far more expensive and slower than along the coast!! Only Barvados <-> Varcopas might sound really reasoned and Thalambath <-> Barvados perhaps. Otherwise except in the storm season ship will be always faster and less dangerous...

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Most merchants would be Stratanians (amount of people), yes, people of political influence and power would be nomadic folk only. The merchants have to look that they are on good terms with the nomads, otherwise they'll get trading problems. If the merchant accept the nomads' rules, they haven't much of a problem, but they're always under pressure. There may have been attempts to hunt down the "desert kings" but all failed. It's not so easy to find someone hidden somewhere in the depths of the deserts. Rumours also has it that some "desert kings" exist incognito among other people. And an even stranger rumour says that some "desert kings" are in fact merchants of Stratania...

[Gean Firefeet]

Koldar: it's not my province, it's our project, and we all decide on what's happening in the world. That's what makes this unique. Had to point that out

Now to the comments. The tribes will have found the town. Though it is true that it's halfway a trade route, this is only starting perhaps 2000-3000 years before Santhros. Before that time the desert tribes already lived there. An though the trade route didn't exist, the oasis did. And water, according to me, is the most precious good in a desert. Maybe they even had constant guard there, to make sure no one took control of this important supply, let alone poison it (<< poisoning the water may be an interesting thing to place somewhere in the history, if the Stratanians need to get rid of them after all ).
But there must be Stratanian presence! I think they might organize a regular market there, or have storehouses located in the town. But the presence would only consist of traders, adventurers, accidental passing people and maybe a garrison of Stratanian soldiers.
Also it will only be the Stratanians who call the tribe nobles the Desert Lord, because they can't pronounce his exotic title. However, I really can't come up with anything exotic sounding title, let alone a tribe name, I could use some fantasy from someone else here!
Now a fews things still need to be done. For example, of what animals would the caravans exist? I don't think there will be many horses around in the province, they will need all the fruitfull lands for cropgrowing and foodproduction and horses will only be available for the rich (much like the economic situation of ancient Athens, with the mountaneous area they hadn't enough land for grainproduction and needed to import it from Egypt or Mesopotamy<sp?>. Thus meat was scarce as well.) Maybe camels, but perhaps we can invent our own desert animal?
On Koldar's comment of expansive trade over land, I don't know about that. But if you say so, we indeed need a good reason for them traveling by land. I see it mainly as trade between the Stratanian cities, at larger distances I agree that they'd rather use a ship.

I'll see if I can make some additions/changes to the entry this morning, will be visiting a butterfly garden with PU (Parental Unit) this afternoon  

[Koldar Mondrakken]

>>Koldar: it's not my province, it's our project, and we all decide on what's happening in the world. That's what makes this unique. Had to point that out  <<<

But I'm just babbling around without any knowledge concerning already existing history in Strata. That's why I depend on your opinion what suggestions you like or dislike and/or fit! Wanted to point this out as well! *grin*

"Shendarions" as tribe name?

Problem with the trade is really that the shipping route is not much longer than that on land and so it is in general lots of faster. You won't transport goods that need to get somewhere fast on land. But other goods like salt and dried spices might be good for that root as they must not get wet?

Have a nice day in the buttefly garden!

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Koldar Mondrakken]

What about precious goods that can be only found at Uderza?(not _only_ but which has Uderza a good amount of)

Diamonds, a certain spice, gold, some kind of other stone/raw material, mithril(what do we call this here?), purple, indigo,...

That would be a great reason to travel and bring goods there as well as exchange goods with other merchants halfway while returning to your hometown with the goods produced in Uderza.

That would make sense IMO but a traderoute to Badervas would be then logic/needed, too.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Artimidor Federkiel]

"Shendarions" sounds ok, maybe named after the region they inhabit, the Dunes of Shendar perhaps? But we have a lot of -ions/-ians already (Avennorians, Stratanians etc.), so maybe we just call them the Shendars for a change? ("Shendar" could mean something simple in their tongue like e.g. "Sand").

And the resource proposal is exactly what we need here! There must be something special in Uderza people want to trade! Something very special, maybe related to the special water of the oasis etc.? Hmmm... A weed perhaps (reminds me a bit of the game "Gothic")? Something to smoke? Or a medicine? Valueable minerals are a bit unlikely in the midst of the desert, I guess...

Proposals for title names: "'Hrul Zhaeón" for the Desert King, the "'ah Waeyrón" for his representatives.

[Koldar Mondrakken]

Why are minerals unlikely when you dig for them?
An interesting idea would be a very unique type of clay that results in very fine and perhaps special-colored pottery. Perhaps only the potters of Uderza know the ingredients for this clay and where to get the minerals  (I would think perhaps in some kind of valleys with underground caverns. These caly pits might be then well guarded by the leaders of Uderza to keep the monopole on this alchemy.

The map shows a very big Oasis, so I think this kind of industry might be possible. This and perhaps some kind of special spice that you can only gather at the Oasis' of Strata (there's a second one on the maps that might have the same thing to make Uderza not too special? one unique good is enough, I'd  think).

I thought -ions and -ians are typical for human tribes (some kind of system as in all elven tribes: rim/rrim). That's why I chose this name, if this is not the case, Shendar sounds better, IMO.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

[Greybark]

I like the special pottery idea and the special spice (or fruit - perfect melon weather!) idea

As far as Strata involvement:
"The desert is wide and the king is far away"
Many laws, customs, etc would not be as enforced in Uderza because of this.

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Yeah, please try to integrate this, Gean! That would be fine.

But our dear Mister X of course would say: Those mad Santharians can't let it! Now they're even stealing from Dune...  

   About this Board
   Dev Introduction
   Developer's 1x1
   Technical Forum Stuff
   Advanced Forum Help
   Testing Thread
   Where's the game?

Advanced search

[Members]

Members Total Members: 1007 Latest: Manticain Stats Total Posts: 143119 Total Topics: 10872 Online Today: 15 Online Ever: 226 (05 November 2012, 23:38:23) Users Online Users: 0 Guests: 10 Total: 10

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Last 10 Shouts: Artimidor Federkiel 16 May 2013, 22:20:50 Files have been replaced again, but the question remains how long this will last. SMF support will have a look at the security problem. Artimidor Federkiel 16 May 2013, 17:26:47 It has been hacked. The third time in 3 days. I need to replace the changed files again (won't happen before evening) - and then see what the SMF support recommends as a strategy. Irid alMenie 16 May 2013, 10:06:36 Arti, could you maybe take a look at the RPG board? I got a message from my anti-virus program and now I can't access the column on the right with the list of current threads and the shoutbox. Thankies Artimidor Federkiel 04 May 2013, 13:50:24 Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels 03 May 2013, 19:31:50 got it! The menu to the left is so convenient, that I nearly forgot the old souce... Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels 03 May 2013, 19:23:01 Artimidooor.. could you please add the Northern Sarvonian Tribe's map to the map menu? As you know, my mouse over does not work I could't find it right now, though I know it does exist somewhere. Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels 30 April 2013, 23:32:56 Huhu, huhu, huhu, ..that was my owl.. Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang 23 April 2013, 01:41:31 Hiho! Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin 21 April 2013, 09:52:11 Hi, Talia Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels 18 April 2013, 17:54:03 Hello!

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Artimidor Federkiel

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Artimidor Federkiel

[Irid alMenie]

Irid alMenie

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Artimidor Federkiel

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels

[Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels]

Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels

[Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang]

Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang

[Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin]

Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin

[Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels]

Ta'lia of the Seven Jewels

[Artimidor]

	Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Theme based on Cerberus with Risen adjustments by Bloc and Krelia Modified By Artimidor for The Santharian Dream