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Author Topic: New styrásh (elvish) vocabulary here!  (Read 117008 times)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #60 on: 20 March 2007, 05:58:22 »

Ok, let's see...

Óh ... (intense) light - indeed this word only shows up in the Styrásh to Tharian Dictionary as of yet, simply because the automatic page generator interpreted the brackets as a letter. So I've changed that now in the defintion, and next time I'll upload it, it will read "light (intense)", and this will show up in the Tharian part as well.

"Valá" we have for "wine", "Dreamer" means "valannía". So let's add a different syllable to make the word for dream - I suggest "valanáj" (feminine). Valanán" for "to dream" as Anwulf suggests is cool with me :)

Following his ideas "valanyá" would then mean "the place of dreams" (what could that be exactly?). "Áll-valanyá" however wouldn't work, due to philosophical reasons as Takór pointed out.

Anwulf's suffix -yá idea is great methinks - also the list he provides here I like very much, very good sounding Styrásh words, I'll add those just the way they are :) - Thanks for that!

In addition to that "éshyá" (non-place) for the Void sounds great to me, and it fits to the philosophy behind it. - I'd go for that!

"Dalorán" can't work for "bind", though, because actually we've already used the word "dalór" on the site already, it only hasn't found its way into the dictionary yet (see the entry on the Dalór and derived from that the Healers of the Dalorins). The explanation there though (moving/rising sparks) is a bit inaccurate, literally it means "riser" or "the one that rises" (see "dalán" = "to rise").
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Falethas Whisperwind
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« Reply #61 on: 20 March 2007, 06:30:40 »

Well, no, dalór would work to mean ''rising spark'', Art.  We have ór as meaning ''spark'' in the dictionary, so dál'ór, ''rising spark'', fits. 

Do we have any ideas on what ''bind'' could be, though?
« Last Edit: 20 March 2007, 06:33:03 by Quaélh'Orín » Logged

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« Reply #62 on: 20 March 2007, 10:30:29 »

Ok, let's see...

"Valá" we have for "wine", "Dreamer" means "valannía". So let's add a different syllable to make the word for dream - I suggest "valanáj" (feminine). Valanán" for "to dream" as Anwulf suggests is cool with me :)

Anwulf's suffix -yá idea is great methinks - also the list he provides here I like very much, very good sounding Styrásh words, I'll add those just the way they are :) - Thanks for that!

You're welcome. :) I'm glad I could contribute something.

Would there be any call for the word "scriptorium" (i.e., place of writing)? I've just had a look at the English-Styrásh word list, but the verb "write" is absent. The word for "write" often has its origin in the means by which the letters were written. For example, words like "scribe", "script", etc. come from a verb that originally meant "scratch"; but the word for "write" might also come from "draw" or perhaps "paint".

I don't know what the history of elvish writing is, but Styrásh letters look like they're written with a brush so that "write" in Styrásh might come from a verb that originally meaning "paint", but the meaning has wholly become "write".

And while we're about it, there are no words for "hear", "listen", or "read" either in the word lists.
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #63 on: 21 March 2007, 05:22:05 »

Ok, thus there are no inconsistences in "dalór", even better! :)

Some new words then:

hán'uasán - to bind (lit. "putting together"); tie together
uás - together

Another great suggestion regarding the write/draw origin - so I made a word for "to draw" and made "to write" a modification of it:

suanán - to draw; to paint
suarhán - to write

Also:

veiván - to read
geley - ear
rólgeyán - to listen (lit. short for "giving ear")
stygeyán - to hear (lit. short for "being ear")

Ok, all the words discussed in the last post were added via SLE - and uploaded as well already so that you can find them in the dictionary - hope you like them! :D
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« Reply #64 on: 21 March 2007, 09:18:06 »

I see that you put dalór in the dictionary as meaning ''spark''...  However, we already have ór meaning ''spark''.  I was meaning to point out to you that there were no inconsistencies in the translation of the dalór creature's name, not suggest a new word for ''spark''.  The other words look great, though!  :)
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« Reply #65 on: 21 March 2007, 09:53:33 »

Another great suggestion regarding the write/draw origin - so I made a word for "to draw" and made "to write" a modification of it:

suanán - to draw; to paint
suarhán - to write

A couple more vocab suggestions from these:

suarh(i)yá "scriptorium" (place of writing)
suanyá "atelier; (artist's) studio" (place of drawing)

Quote
Also:

veiván - to read
geley - ear
rólgeyán - to listen (lit. short for "giving ear")
stygeyán - to hear (lit. short for "being ear")

Good choices for "listen" and "hear". I think they catch the sense of both words well.

And one last word for the moment:

veiv(i)yá "library, reading room" (place of reading)
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #66 on: 22 March 2007, 04:56:52 »

Okeydokey, I've added those words as well. :)

Don't know what the original meaning of dalór was now precisely, so the translation now reads simply "dalór insect".
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« Reply #67 on: 22 March 2007, 05:22:56 »

Is there anything for which "styryá" might fit?  It should roughly translate to "place of being" if I've got it right. 
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« Reply #68 on: 22 March 2007, 05:33:37 »

As "beings" and "elves" are pretty much the same thing in Styrásh, it could also mean "place of the elves" - e.g. an elven home.
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« Reply #69 on: 22 March 2007, 11:34:44 »

I'd agree with Art's definition of styryá as "elven home", although I'm not sure whether it's a legit word for two reasons.

"be" in English can be used as the verb of identity (describing as in "The cat is white"{1}; or saying what you do "My mother is a doctor") or existence (as in "I think, therefore I am (i.e., exist)") or even in the formation of location phrases (a little marginal perhaps, but "I am here", "She is there", "They are at home" etc.)

Which one is styrán "to be"? Or can it be used in all these functions?

The other reason is that this is a deverbal suffix. styryá would have to mean "place where people exist" (i.e., they're doing the existing). It could then mean "elven home" by association with the elves, but that's not its original meaning.

"Elven home" would be, if I have the right words, styáey-zoúm, an endocentric compound. (Perhaps styá-zoúm would be better, where sty(á)- could be a general element used in compounds to mean "elf" or "elvish"; thus, styá-cárscál "elf-sword"{2}; styá-galnós "elf-stone"{3}; styá-soór "elf-talk"{4}; stý-avél "elf-thought"{5} etc.)

Sorry, Art. I'm getting carried away again, but I seem to be feeling a bit creative this morning and I'm finding this discussion interesting.

Notes.
1. Styrát só feníl aelién in Styrásh. :)
2. Conceived as a weapon in a distinctly elvish style and not just a sword belonging to an elf.
3. Some sort of magical stone??
4. Either "language that's very mellifluous" (e.g. soorát styá-soór "He/she speaks very beautifully"); or a synonym for Styrásh.
5. The philosophy of the elves??
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« Reply #70 on: 22 March 2007, 15:52:23 »

Quote
The other reason is that this is a deverbal suffix. styryá would have to mean "place where people exist" (i.e., they're doing the existing).
That's how I intepreted it.  Interesting, but doesn't seem to fit anything I can think of. 
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« Reply #71 on: 23 March 2007, 05:36:50 »

Well, personally I always thought that the word "styrán" has this ambiguity that the English "to be" has as well, only that it has this "elf" part in the word itself already, giving it a cosmological importance.

The second point you mention - it means "place where people exist, do the existing". Yes, it actually would mean that in a general way, as such meaning just "house" perhaps. A human house would be a "styryá" as well following that interpretation.

Or, upon rethought, thinking in more metaphysical terms (I like that better), "styryá" could mean what the German "Diesseits" tries to express, contrary to the "Jenseits". Maybe that's what Mina meant implicitly. English doesn't have proper expressions for these words methinks, "Diesseits" (lit. "on this side") would mean "the here and now", "this world", "this life", while "Jenseits" (lit. "on the other side", "on the beyond-side") often means the metaphysical "herefater", "afterlife", or in other words: the "God-Place, which is not of this world".

The endocentric compound thing looks plausible to me the way you describe it, Anwulf. - Let's use it that way for substantives where we need to have elves in it!  thumbup
« Last Edit: 23 March 2007, 05:38:22 by Artimidor Federkiel » Logged



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« Reply #72 on: 23 March 2007, 05:39:15 »

Quote
1. Styrát só feníl aelién in Styrásh.  :)

Should be Styrát aelién só feníl.

Also, I thought that we joined elements to form words by apostrophe, not by hyphen.  Should we revise these then to say styá'zoúm and styá'cárscál then?  Actually, with ''elvenhome'' and ''elf-speak'' and some of the others, we could even have them as just one word, e.g. styazoúm and styasoór and such.

Finally, I have two more suggestions making use of the denominal place suffix - sphergyá or sphergiyá - ''palace, royal house'' (lit. ''place of the crown''); and dél'aeyá, dél'aeiyá, or dél'aeyyá - ''school of mages, arcane manifestorium'' (lit. ''place of mages'')

Just quick comments, I have little time as of right now...

Styraiáh artanhé!
« Last Edit: 24 March 2007, 04:03:09 by Quaélh'Orín » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: 23 March 2007, 11:04:23 »

Quote from: Art
Or, upon rethought, thinking in more metaphysical terms (I like that better), "styryá" could mean what the German "Diesseits" tries to express, contrary to the "Jenseits". Maybe that's what Mina meant implicitly. English doesn't have proper expressions for these words methinks, "Diesseits" (lit. "on this side") would mean "the here and now", "this world", "this life", while "Jenseits" (lit. "on the other side", "on the beyond-side") often means the metaphysical "herefater", "afterlife", or in other words: the "God-Place, which is not of this world".

English certainly doesn't have two words with the same rhetorical balance that "Diesseits" and "Jenseits" have. To me, a metaphysical sense for styryá seems fitting

Should be Styrát aelién só feníl.

In The Principles it says

Quote
The acting word in a sentence dominates the sentence. You

a.) begin with the acting word

and

b.) add the acting person(s) after the acting word

(phará qué, meaning "you are travelling") or

c.) at the end of the sentence

(this is because the subject is the least relevant thing due to the tight relation between the elves and nature), e.g. in the sentence: Pharanté es sá móchcin'lón énh styrín (translated: "The elves travel into the dark forest").

which means that both translations are correct. Theoretically. Here styrát is merely the copula verb so that although só feníl is the subject, it's not really an actor. However, I can think of a reason for preferring Quaélh'Orin's translation because the predicate is an adjective (i.e., potential stative verb.

Quote
Also, I thought that we joined elements to form words by apostrophe, not by hyphen.

That's just me. It's a certain phobia I have which largely results from the conlangs of Star Trek, especially Klingon, in which the apostrophe is apparently employed haphazardly in a bad imitation of the practice used in the recording of Native American languages, where it's a means of indicating that the previous segment is glottalised. As a linguist, I prefer to abide by traditional punctuation, viz. the hyphen, which I also find clearer visually. The hyphens can be changed to apostrophes in accordance with standard practice here.

Quote
Finally, I have two more suggestions making use of the deverbal place suffix - sphergyá or sphergiyá - "palace, royal house" (lit. "place of the crown"); and dél'aeyá, dél'aeiyá, or dél'aeyyá - "school of mages, arcane manifestorium" (lit. "place of mages")

In this case, you need a different suffix because "deverbal" means that the source of the word is a verb. Your examples are from nouns. In Latin, for instance, scriptorium is really the neuter sg of an adjective meaning "of a writer; of writers" which, by extension, has come to mean "the place where writing happens".

In English, we use the suffix -ery (e.g. bake ~ bakery; join ~ joinery) with nouns; so although there are no such words, I could say crownery or magery, although I only find the meaning of the latter transparent. Unfortunately, I can't view the word lists at the moment either directly, or via the menus, so I can't start poking around to see whether Styrásh might already have a model from which such a suffix could be extracted.

Just to make things clear (which I should've done before), this is how - is attached to the stem of the verb:

-VC or -VV – add -yá
-VVC or -VCC – add -iyá

In the case of the latter, the -i- helps with the pronunciation.
« Last Edit: 23 March 2007, 11:24:55 by Anwulf II » Logged
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« Reply #74 on: 25 March 2007, 19:43:14 »

Yeah, 'Diesseits' seems to fit. 

Quote
In the case of the latter, the -i- helps with the pronunciation.
Are you sure?  If 'y' were /j/ I'd agree, but it represents something like /ʉ/ (close central rounded vowel) IIRC, which I find pretty hard to pronounce either way.   buck
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