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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« on: 01 May 2006, 12:12:00 »

I will add a lot here later, please be patient! :)    
Edit: Now is later!



Some general notes before.

This should be a rough timeline to begin with. I posted the small details of the current time, because we had them already and I wanted to get them down somewhere, but for now, stay with the big things first!

Then let‘s start! :D  

Current Age:  Since Tiandor‘s ascension to the throne: Time of the Zenith(?)

We discussed that already on Santhmoot.

The rough idea:

Tiandor is one of the greatest kings Santharia has every seen and everybody compares him rightfully with Santhros. However, other than Santhros, he had not to fight or quarrel to gain his empire, he earned it from  his father and grandfather. But this way , he has the means to reform the whole land. Under Tiandor whole Santharia sees a renaissance in every aspect of life. Plenty new inventions are made , social reforms are brought on the way etc - in principal you can compare him to Salomon

His father, Grothian, however, a great king as well, and his direct ancestors however had a hard time till the land was peacefully again. You can compare him (and them) with King David

If I follow Judy‘s family tree and you look at my dates, this era goes  for nearly 120 years till (roughly ) 1500a.S. and begins with Grothunc the Wise
Name this time for now: Time of Rebuild

So far that is what we have.

My proposal now:

If we have a time of rebuild, we need a time of war, destruction and havoc before:

The Santharian Kingdom is completely fallen apart, each tribe has its own leaders, some call themselves king, some not. This time lasts for XXX years . Time of Havoc
Grothunc the Wise could be the first King out of the line of Santhros after quite some time....


The reason for this „falling apart“ is a tyrannic King before that time who suppresses and terrorises  all with the help of a few (which tribes?) . The first tribe which separates successfully are the Stratanians (with the help of Shan‘Thai?) , but they loose part of their territory - (see map, but that could happen earlier as well). Finally all break free, the tyrant is murdered, but the tribes which have supported the tyrannic King are now fighting the ones which broke free.

Time of XXX (insert town name, tribe name etc) Tyranny







 


I repost here Judy's family tree again, though we should not discuss these details now. It is of course open to discussion (well, partly ;)     - we , Judy, Alysse, me and others spent already a lot of time setting it up). I got quite a lot of ideas already while doing the entry on King Tiandor, so let us concentrate on the main line!



(click to enlarge and see more of the family tree)


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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Edited by: Talia Sturmwind  at: 5/12/06 9:54
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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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Drasil Razorfang
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« Reply #1 on: 01 May 2006, 12:17:00 »

This may just be a stupid question, but what is this a timeline of?

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #2 on: 01 May 2006, 12:20:00 »

:read   As I said, be patient, I'm just about to set all up!

Look at the other thread which belongs to this one, and you will knew more.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #3 on: 01 May 2006, 16:06:00 »

Great - and I see you DO have my family tree, so we have both the visual tree and the actual timeline to look at.  A few comments and additional information for everyone, then...

THE KIDS:

One thing that's not on the tree or line are the kids' birthdates, because I didn't know how old we wanted to make them.   (That would be Prince Dane, Prince Kane, and Princess Kala I'm so disrespectfully referring to here...)

Also, when were Tiandor and Alaveras Bright-Eyed married?  Definitely will have to work backwards there :)

I thought about having Kala be a toddler, two or three (so I could base her on Katherine, of course...) and then make Kane seven years old and Dane nine.   That keeps Alaveras reasonably a 'young' mother and allows her to be currently pregnant - or potentially in the future.   Notice that we have the 'heir and the spare', plus the daughter Alaveras was secretly wanting after she recovered fully from the difficult birth of Kane ('the spare').

That would make their wedding ten years ago, assuming she was both fertile and virginal - desirable qualities in a future queen!


SIBLINGS:

Tiandor is the current king although he is not the firstborn - firstborn son of Grothian and Jaleth, yes, but there is currently no gender prejudice towards male or female rulers; the law of primogenditure applies.   So if this law applies, why isn't his older sister, Lady Shiana, the current queen?

Because Shiana, though groomed for leadership, at puberty began to experience some distressing symptoms.  At first it was unclear exactly what ailed the slim, dark-eyed maid, but headaches that almost blinded her and spasmodic loss of all senses while staring into space eventually resolved after a ten-day fever...Shiana broke through into the Inner Vision and was recognized as one of the few true Seers of her generation.   Since it was uncertain exactly when Vision might come upon her, and since every episode of foresight erratically brought the same blinding headaches and physical incapacity,  she renounced the throne in favour of her sturdy and energetic younger brother.  She is well-respected among the people and a trusted advisor to the throne; her Sight has been useful almost on a yearly basis and the worst side effects are controlled with herbal and magical assistance.

Parien, the 'spare' of his generation, is a cheerful, blustering uncle who is both generous and thoughtless.  "He'd give you the tunic off his own shoulders," Queen Mother Jaleth once said in an oft-quoted remark, "but you'd have to ask..."    Should anything happen to his brother Tiandor, Parien has the Regency for Danegor (his nephew and the Crown Prince).

CONSORTS:  A note here on inheritance, marriage, and consorts:

Since primogeniture applies, and either male or female may inherit the crown, for the last (three or four?) hundred years the 'Consort' rule has applied to spouses of the ruling family so that there is no dissent or power struggles which might break apart the kingdom as handed down from Santhros.

This is tricky but logical - read carefully!   The reigning king or queen may choose his/her spouse as he/she likes (always taking into account the necessary alliances, culture, social levels, etc. that must be considered) but that spouse may never be crowned as queen or king - that is, may never hold power.  In fact, as part of the marriage ceremony she/he must renounce all claims on the throne for her/himself  - and her/his progeny by any other save the reigning king/queen, to the third generation!   The spouse holds the honourable title of 'Consort' and is provided with an independent income and lands equivalent to a small barony.  (However, our legal counsel informs us that upon the death of the consort those lands revert back 'to the crown'...)

This renunciation ensures that, should the monarch predecease the consort, the heir of his/her body will be the next ruler - NOT the children of the consort and a new spouse, which could potentially result in civil war and all kinds of other social disorders.  'To the third generation' means that the children and grandchildren are disqualified but does allow for whatever noble house provided the consort to retain face, and, one assumes, a future chance at the throne should the current house be completely destroyed...




:read  I must note here that MY spouse and 'consort' Bryan deserves quite a bit of thanks for assistance in making this historically and psychologically accurate! :kiss  

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #4 on: 02 May 2006, 00:11:00 »

Judy, we should NOT talk here about the last 150 years, I just put it down to have started with it. Maybe I should do an extra thread for these last 150 years. This one is for the BIG thing. Oh well, I can't see clearly, just out of bed, have to read all you have posted first :lol  mmaybe a breakfast would not hurt either.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #5 on: 02 May 2006, 07:38:00 »

Then I'll wait till you get your blood sugar up and your glasses on, because this is directly about or relevant to the current generation of the royal house.  Personally, I never do anything important before breakfast!

Context is important as well, so what I've done is to give background and fill out the details for the people now 'currently' living.  It sets precedent only in that we need to have a clear reason for gender equality/primogeniture in the Santharian kingdom.

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"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #6 on: 02 May 2006, 14:24:00 »

Yes, Judy, but not here! This thread should only contain the rough timeline with maybe little additions, just for a brainstorming and not an evaluation of the last hundred years. I know, there are lacking a lot of dates, but I thought they are not necessary here. My mistake, I should not have put the minor details in here. I can set up an extra thread for the last 150 years.

Just one comment to your post above:
„Since primogeniture applies, and either male or female may inherit the crown, for the last (three or four?) hundred years the 'Consort' rule has applied to spouses of the ruling family so that there is no dissent or power struggles which might break apart the kingdom as handed down from Santhros.“

That depends on what comes out of the discussion of this timeline - see the red proposal I made in the timeline. In an age of havoc these rules might get lost or are not applied.

Other comments to it in the timeline I will set up for the last 150 years tomorrow. (hopefully)

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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« Reply #7 on: 02 May 2006, 16:19:00 »

That makes sense, thanks for clarifying (and for setting up a different thread, as I don't want those ideas/guidelines to be lost).  Of course in an Age of Havoc they would not apply - perhaps though if the rule of consort had been established prior to that, it would be in greater contrast when it was broken during the havoc... and various inheritors were competing for the crown.

In fact Bryan's suggestion that a consort remarry and that her second set of children would then challenge the first heirs might be very interesting to utilize for the Havoc period, no?

Ok, ok, I'll wait with other ideas until you set up appropriate threads...

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« Reply #8 on: 05 May 2006, 11:08:00 »

Uhm...shouldn't this be a discussion about a timeline of important events, rather than imperial genealogy?  

That said, I do have some comments concerning the timeline currently posted at the other thread.  

Firstly, this page says
Quote:
The project of the Santharian Compendium was begun half a century ago in the reign of King Mardan (1612)

Well, the name doesn't fit, but that could be changed.  More important is the fact that the dates don't match up.  I personally think that 1612a.S. is a better date than 1000a.S.  600+ years seems a little too long to me.  

I think you guys might also want to start using the new titles (Santhran, etc) instead of King/Queen and such.  

One of the dates is written as 1924.  I think you meant 1624.  

And finally, a couple of things about the names of the eras, assuming that those are the actual names you guys are going to give them, instead of merely being placeholders.  'Time of Rebuild' isn't very grammatical.  'Time of Rebuilding' would be the correct form, I think.  Also, I wonder if the names might be a little too general.  There must certainly have been many periods during the history of Santharia which the names 'Time of Havoc' and 'Time of Rebuilding' could be applied to.  


Edited by: Mina Aylwin at: 5/4/06 21:33
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« Reply #9 on: 09 May 2006, 14:29:00 »

OK, I'm here as well now - lots of intersting things here:)

We should however take care not to get into too much details now, but try to work out the rough outlines and milestones and dates first. The primogeniture concept, sibling details etc. are surely important and should be kept in mind, but every development step at its time.

I guess we also should have an eye on the complete time period 0-1600 and put the milestones and key dates there and then work on refining them. Too much birth and marriage dates at the current time table (though I understand that you've worked on that part already). Much more important is - I guess - defining the Time of Rebuilding, of Havoc etc. and describe them in 2-3 lines, or mention important incidents briefly.

I would also recommend to make the timeline as Forum post, not as a graphic, because we'll have to move things up and down, and it might get pretty lenghty.

For example we need to have mentioned the complete destruction of Santhala (ca. 500 as a rough date), then the rebuilding to New-Santhala.

I will think of more key topics to be added to the list - we should work them into the list, only roughly sorted, and then decide where to really put it later.


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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #10 on: 09 May 2006, 15:09:00 »

Does nobody read what I write? (*looks fiercely around*I just put these details in, because we had them, I will do an extra thread for them as soon as I have more time (my husband had his birthday on Saturday) as I said in answer to Judy's post. The next thread will be from Santhos up, (as I said elswhere) but there is much more to collect there , so it takes more time.

Mina, I put up just anything to HAVE something, nothing is fixed, not the times and not the names (which I invented very quickly). I recalled later, that Drasil had called an age, "Age of Chaos".

I overlooked the founding date of the Compendium, but I can recall somebody saying we would need a long time of peace to have all accomplished what we have so far. And the entry is contradicting itself saying in the beginning: „It was finally published for the first time at the year 1660 after centuries of work, covering not only Santharian matters, but also comprises many details of the world of Aér'aí'chán as a whole everyone interested in profound knowledge, be it beasts, plants, history or philosophy shouldn't miss.“

I think we could honour Art in another way, maybe the collection of books were not used till the last wars and needed a thorough resurrection.
And Art - may I write , that Tiandor funded you, so that you could finally publish it in 1660??

I‘ll edit the details out above tomorrow, today I‘m too sunburned to be able to think clearly..

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
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« Reply #11 on: 10 May 2006, 02:17:00 »

The Time of Havoc could be a period of wide spread assasination where most kings don't last a year and civil war. I like it makes for more interesting history then peace

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