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Author Topic: In Caelereth there was a...  (Read 3945 times)
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Arcuar
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« Reply #15 on: 12 May 2004, 03:29:00 »

I´ve now made everything plural, to target the Races as a main. I´m still thinking of a reason to be sung, and if there are any more comments, I´m glad to receive them, and if you approve, please bring Rayne to check it, so I may be sure that it is good.

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #16 on: 12 May 2004, 04:11:00 »

Arcuar, there are still a lot of things off, it is not good yet.

- you can‘t write one time theirs, the next without such a personal pronoun

-The rhythm in the second line (especially)is still not ok, you need similarities in such an poem. It has a form and is not entirly free(which wouldn‘t fit here anyway), so you have to do something about it.

- you have to go more carefully through your work: One time you are writing  -there are the dwarves, the next time you miss the -the- (brownies)
It is tiring to point you to things which you should have seen and changed yourself.

See:
In Caelereth there are the Dwarves,
In pickaxe and hammer,
In Caelereth there are the Dwarves,
They, are, proud

In Caelereth there are Hobbits,
In blowpipe and dart,
In Caelereth there are Hobbits,
They, are, kind

And again: It does not fit, because the Hobbits have a syllab (?) to much.

It does not fit either with the plural in the refrain, apart that you forgot the -so- : Work more carefully!!!

The Hobbits kind, the Gnomes smart,
The Brownies small, the Races low,
They all have this in common,
They, must, die

The Hobbits so kind, the Gnomes  so smart,
The Brownies so small, the Races low,
They all have this in common,
They, must, die


Though you have added - the races low - it is not the same as a fourth race, this may go through though


why haven‘t you taken up my proposal to shorten the names?
like this (-so- missing again)

The Gorbas dumb, the Ogres huge,
The Trolls great, the Races great,
They all have this in common,
They, must, die

The Gorbs   so dumb, the Ogr '  s so huge,
The Trolls so great, the Races great,
They all have this in common,
They, must, die

What about my comments about the last stanza?

No need to bother Rayne as long as the other things are not cleared up.

Btw, putting the refrain in italic helps a lot to improve the look, which is important as w

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #17 on: 12 May 2004, 04:13:00 »

Maybe -all- sounds better

The Gorbs   sodumb, the Ogr   s so huge,
The Trolls sogreat, all   Races great,
They all have this in common,
They, must, die

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Arcuar
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« Reply #18 on: 12 May 2004, 04:17:00 »

It's merely to improve speech. Nothing more, nothing less. It's merely to improve speech.

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #19 on: 12 May 2004, 04:29:00 »

Arcuar, I think we should concentrate on the first part before going to the rest. I would skip the brackets (main races) in every case - it is obvious and not good to look at.

So let‘s begin:



In Caelereth there are the Men,
-/-/-/-/
In shining armour and valour,
-/-/--/-
In Caelereth there are the Men,
-/-/-/-/
They, are, brave
/_ /_ /

In Caelereth there are the Elves,
-/-/-/-/
In beauty and happiness,
-/--/--                   You HAVE to find other words here which fit the rhythm!
In Caelereth there are Elves,
-/-/-/-/
They, are, nice

In Caelereth there are the Dwarves,
-/-/-/-/
In pickaxe and hammer,
-/--/-
In Caelereth there are the Dwarves,
-/-/-/-/
They, are, proud

In Caelereth there are the Orcs,
-/-/-/-/
In armour and their sword,
-/-/-/
In armour and sword
-/--/
In Caelereth there are the Orcs,
They, are, strong

The Men so brave, the Elves so nice
The Dwarves so proud, the Orcs so strong,
They all have this in common
They, must, die


- You do have in every second line a different rhythm, that is bad.
- Second line again: I think the first two stanzas are ok, but I doubt, that you can say: -In pickaxe and hammer- that had to be - with pickaxe and hammer- , but then it doesn‘t fit to the first two stanzas.
Same with the orcs: in armour is ok, but it has to be -with their sword - which would be totally off.
You need to have the grammar right, even if it is a poem.

I would say, look for different examples and wording, and it would be perfect, if not only the rhythm would fit, but the second and forth line would rhyme!

A lot to do for you!

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #20 on: 12 May 2004, 17:09:00 »

Talia has been really nice with this poem so far, so my comments will probably sound prety harsh in comparison.

Judith's song "Sarvonia has lovely girls" is musical in two ways. For one, it has iambic rythm, considered to be the sing-songy rhythm. Unstressed-stressed. A lot of nursery songs and such are written in iambs, especially imabic tetrameter, because it does have  avery sing-songy feel to it.

The second musical element is Rhyme. If you're going to have a good children's song, it has to have rhyme. There's no getting around that. It makes it easier to sing and it's just more entertaining for little children.

These are both fronts that you have problems with. Talia has been kind enough to scan your poem, from what I glanced through, correctly, and you should listen to her. Strive for the iambs.

Your repetition is also too close together. You limit what you can actually put into the song because you're so busy repeating lines. My advice is to reapeat STRUCTURE for each verse. Begin each stanza with "In Caleareth there was a," but don't repeat that line anywhere else in that stanza. It gets frustratingly repetitous. You don't need it, and it doesn't sound good. Plus, it take away an entire line that you could be using to describe more things about the race, as well as any opportunity for rhyme instead of repetition.

There are some races that you're just not going to be able to do without screwing up the stucture. Hobbits is two syllables. It will always be two syllables. I love hobbits, anyone will tell you, but they don't allowed themselves to be put into the form you've created.

Shorten your poem, work on meter, stick rhyme in there, and put in more content. If you think it wounds good the way it is, play the song on the piano yourself, record it, and let us hear it.

Edited by: Rayne Avalotus at: 5/12/04 1:12
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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Arcuar
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« Reply #21 on: 13 May 2004, 08:43:00 »

Well, I followed your advice on rhyme and structure, I counted every syllable in every sentence, so that's good, I think. And I'm pretty sure I would follow your advice about the iambic piece, if I would know what it would mean Anyway, thank you for overviewing it.

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #22 on: 13 May 2004, 23:46:00 »

Google is your friend, too. :)


www.google.de/search?q=ia...rt=10&sa=N

www.yourencyclopedia.net/Iambic
www.yourencyclopedia.net/...ish_Poetry

www.sp.uconn.edu/~mwh95001/iambic.html

newmedia.colorado.edu/Con...ambic.html

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
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