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Author Topic: Wooden Creations  (Read 6430 times)
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Dirty DaVinci
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« on: 25 June 2003, 20:46:00 »

Hello, everyone!  I'm new on the forum, so if this question has been asked, I apologize.  I wanted to know if anyone has ever worked on a tribe/culture/society of wooden creations?

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #1 on: 26 June 2003, 00:20:00 »

Hello again, DaVinci!

Wodden creations... wodden creations... Can't think precisely what you're refering to... An ent-like culture? We have something similar here, the Drasil. Or do you mean a culture creating something from wood?


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Dirty DaVinci
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« Reply #2 on: 26 June 2003, 10:03:00 »

Hey, Artimidor! Wie geht's es Ihnen?  Excuse my German, I'm barely learning it.  Anyway, the Drasil is a beautiful description, but it isn't what I'm thinking of.  Imagine a culture, a small, nomadic tribe of wandering gypsy puppets!  Small wooden puppets brought to life by wayward magic, adopting the personality of the people around them.  There could be nomadic puppets, hunter puppets, city-wise puppets, etc.  I had envisioned them as being highly intelligent, but lacking common sense.  Example, they would be capable of trying to cook their food (like a sliver of wood with moss) on a spit, but with no actual fire.  Just pretending there was a fire underneath the spit.  Or pretending to watch a tv set, for example, but with no electricity or image on the wooden set!  They would emulate those people around them, understand what their doing, but not do it right! Sorry, just a weird idea!  

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #3 on: 26 June 2003, 09:24:00 »

Danke für die Nachfrage, mir geht es sehr gut:D  

Hmmm... I assume you're searching for something where your Wooddoll pic might fit in (see here for the larger version DaVinci is using as character portrait).

Hmmm... The idea is pretty weird to have a whole culture of such puppets, you know. On the other hand as mages can create golems and such, such a puppet (at least one) could be the result of a magical experiment, and thus I assume would for example make a good story/legend/fairy tale, whatever, some sort of Pinoccio variation (but diffferent though) with the ideas you mentioned, more on the philosopical side (puppet longing to be human for example). Though we won't introduce the TV in Santharia for this puppet... :lol   In this respect I think this could work, but a whole existing culture is probably a bit too much...


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Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 6/25/03 17:25
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Dirty DaVinci
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« Reply #4 on: 26 June 2003, 13:52:00 »

Ein nettes, ruhigen Nachmittag?

A nomadic tribe of these puppets.  A dozen or so, animated by a haywire spell.  I was thinking of them being small, so we aren't talking your human sized creations.  A perious journey for them, surviving the wilds, fires and water *LOL*  They could get out of shape in the rain.

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Lucirina Telor Vevan
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« Reply #5 on: 26 June 2003, 13:57:00 »

This could be a good base for a group of fairy tales.. You know, "The stories and adventures of (insert name here)"
I agree that it would be kind of strange to have a nomadic tribe wandering around Santharia.. it sounds more like a kind of legend, or something the mothers could tell to their children.
"Be good now and maybe the wandrering (whatshamacallits) will bring you a gift." or "Be careful or I`ll ask the (whatchamacallitts) to come and get you while you sleep."
Since magic is so common (?) in Santharia, it would be foolish to invent creatures as the tooth fairy ... how about the wandering puppets instead :P
Yeah yeah yeah.. I am blabbering.  

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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #6 on: 26 June 2003, 13:57:00 »

uhm... me again with the Nybelmar things lol

Actually I might have an idea concerning a place for such "wood creations". Check the kingdom of Anis-Anpagan on the Nybelmar political map and also on the map of South West Nybelmar (both are drawn by Koldar, and can be found in the Places section of the site). As you can see there is an unnamed island in the south that belongs to Anis-Anpagan, and also a city west of the kingdom but not embedded in any nation yet.

As I promised before, I will try my hand on Anis-Anpagan too, so this idea might just get me started.
Anis-Anpagan is supposed to be a Kingdom forged by an exiled Korweyn prince so they might bear certain resemblances with the Empire but they also should make a pretty important difference.
Now I am thinking that if all the rest of (human) East Nybelmar is using only clerical magic, maybe Anis-Anpagan leans toward another kind of magic. So we can have two "schools" of magic dealing in animating different kind of bodies. And I see a very good opportunity for developping some interesting conceptual tensions here. As animating objects is very different from animating dead bodies, but in essence they are the same. So we would have on the southern island the "headquarters" of those animating objects and in the city of Venlaken (and the surrounding steppes), banned from Anis-Anpagan, those dealing in animating dead bodies (necromancers if you like).
In the southern island, stone carving or smithing might be a little hard to imagine so these "Wooden Creations" are just perfect.

Besides I like this idea a lot (with the imitations...) although it was "explored" before in various stories (and Pinocchio is just one of them) I think it still has a good deal of potential.

PS. And of course we can agree about these "creation" turning loose :)  

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #7 on: 26 June 2003, 14:27:00 »

Hmmm... The concept depends on how exactly you want to develop the idea further, Smith, to what extent and consequences you want to persue the idea. What are they precisely (how are they created)? What is their purposes? What is their destiny? How many of them are their? In what forms do they exist (did they exist)? etc.

I don't know if you ever played Thief II, but there was medieval scenario, where they tried something in this a bit unusual direction as well, but with iron. There was the mechanists guild and they built moving iron devices (you'd say "robots") kept alive by magical power gems or something, and these things were used to protect treasures etc. Surprisingly this fit pretty well into the Thief world, so it might work in different form here as well perhaps if the concept doesn't get too weird and unbeliefable...


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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #8 on: 26 June 2003, 16:38:00 »

Golems might be useful... wood golems are quite possible. Golems entry is on the site, look it up if you are intrested.


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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #9 on: 26 June 2003, 17:55:00 »

well, the idea just came to me when reading davinci's post... though the thief series is one of my favourites (I used to be good at sneaking sometimes lol - I did the missions on expert without dying :D ) it never crossed my mind. I did "receive" a "Siberia" image in my head (though that is not quite fantasy) if you know the game. Awkard "golems", they try to do things right but they can't understand any meaning so ultimately they fail :)  ... it has something tragic and comic in the same time.
Now for further developements I could think it over more in detail, but maybe this "Dirty DaVinci" ;)  here has something to say also ...

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Dirty DaVinci
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« Reply #10 on: 26 June 2003, 19:14:00 »

Ah, yes, Thief II:  The Metal Age!  I loved that game.  Those mechanical robots were a nuisance, but of course, a water arrow or two into its furnace would shut them down (and deplete your water arrows) *LOL*  Great game.  Too bad they moved on to Hitman instead.  But in a sense, the idea of the puppets is beyond that.  The Mechanists created the iron robots as sentries, while their 'servants' were mechanized humans to a point.  In this case, the puppets could be more like Pinocchio in their childlike curiousity, but their creation, life and mannerisms would be completely different.  

My original concept was a small tribe of wooden puppets animated by a spell gone haywire, something that gave them sentience.  A life force, if you will, and unlike golems that generally require orders and direction, these are capable of their own decisions.  But their childlike curiousity leads them to emmulate what is around them.  Example, they could have emerged from their lair, found by a gypsy child thinking they were all toys left somewhere, and took them in.  The dolls could have begun emulationg a gypsy's way of life, learning to travel, hunting 'savage' branches and small shrubs, setting up little campsites in the night, doing dances, wearing loose snippets of clothing, etc.  If some set up near a civilized town, a metropolis, they would probably begin copying them, like a theocracy for example, setting up a religious hierarchy.  But in all of this, they don't realize why they're doing it.  They don't understand religion, but they realize the human's practice of it (and maybe find solace in it's practice) matching it perfectly, they would set up fires to keep themselves warm but wouldn't use real fire (just setting up the wood and campsite perfectly) or hell, they might even start taking showers, but with no water (probably using dirt).

The concept loans itself to a highly adaptable, almost naive nomadic, quiet society of midgets that don't interfere, but that may make the substance of legends or fairy tales.  Like someone said, it could lead to "behave, and may be the wooden folk will bring you a lucky, wood toy!"  Hell, who knows, they could even end up settling next to a thieves guild...hehehe...see the idea...hehehe...:p  Just an idea, and I'm more than willing to see this evolve into something more established, or just nicked here if it doesn't have a chance.  Just wanted to see if it's possible.  

Smith in exile, so then Mari is your creation?  Beautiful concept!  I may take you up on the offer.  Just please, let me see what I can do, since it have some lengthy projects underway.  Your description of her is very vivid to me.  I can picture her in someone's dreams...    

Edited by: Dirty DaVinci at: 6/26/03 3:16
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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #11 on: 26 June 2003, 21:15:00 »

Mari is my concept, although the name belongs to Koldar. (I'm glad you liked it :) , as I like it too lol)

There is no rush here, so you can take your time, anyway, if you would like to work with me on the Wooden Creation concept in Anis-Anpagan, just tell me and we'll move this discussion there.

PS. still, there is nothing like the Thief (both of them) zombies - the most scariest monster ever created in a computer game :P (Hmmm... I'll have to look for that CDs, I suddenly started to miss that story...)

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Dirty DaVinci
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« Reply #12 on: 26 June 2003, 22:03:00 »

I was freaked out by the ghosts, the quick way they moved and double whispers they would issue as they passed by.  As a setting, I think the Mansion in Thief II was the best.  But if you want freaky creatures, try the howlers from the Silent Hill series or Clive Barker's Undying.  Now that is disturbing...

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #13 on: 27 June 2003, 04:40:00 »

Quote:
Now I am thinking that if all the rest of (human) East Nybelmar is using only clerical magic,


Eh, how do you come to that conclusion, Smith?:
At least Korweynites and Santerrans all work magic they only value it differently than Santharia. Santerrans put their mages under the rule of the priesthood, Korweynites use imbueing as a normal way to enhance their work and don't see it as as special as Santharian mages.



I also have my doubts about this idea. It will change alot, esspecially as currently there magic does not seem to be capable to build real magical creatures with some kind of materials and give them their own mind. Given that magic was restrained in santharia to some exrtent so the world does not get too fantastic and remains logic in its own ways I'm not sure if such a change would fit.

Currently I'm thinking: "Why did they create these creatures in the first place and when they're useful why should their number be so restricted? Other mages, countries, kingdoms would want such stuff, too when it's so cool! And when it's not cool why build them?"

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #14 on: 27 June 2003, 03:50:00 »

Yes, I need to warn you here as well, Smith/DaVinci! I definitely can't recommend to make a whole culture of it, this would turn everything upside down! It's as if someone would invent a gold making device and you can forget about a whole commerce system. If it's part of a legend/fairy tale of course you can do a whole puppet society just for the story, but as Koldar said more than one or just a few intelligent puppets will cause severe changes to the whole "realistic" fantasy world concept, and I can't vote for that.


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Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 6/26/03 11:51
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