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Author Topic: Weather of Caelereth  (Read 4907 times)
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #15 on: 30 July 2003, 15:31:00 »

Yeah, Frost and Dew should both be aspects of Weather, shouldn't they?  Ok (makes mental note to add them to the list), and I like the suggestion of having them epitomized by some sort of nature spirit - Grothar's servants or something.

Didn't someone point out that we have no 'good' equivalent to demons?  - 'angels' not quite the right fantasy feel methinks - so some beneficial spirits/supernatural powers would fill that cosmological gap in nicely..

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"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #16 on: 30 July 2003, 17:07:00 »

Er... Demons seem more... ummm... tangible... that what I think of a beneficial spirit would be. I mean, most lesser demons are more beasts than demons, right?

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #17 on: 30 July 2003, 18:02:00 »

I think I proposed angels earlier as well but I came to a diffwerent opinion after much thought. afterall the demons are either a perversion of Avá's Dream, then the world and its natural inhabitants would be their counterparts or demons are spirits, then the gods as the twelve high spirits would be the 'good' side.
Assuming both is true from all the different demons it would mean that these "spirits" that started to create Caelereth or tried to corrupt it(both mentioned in one or two sentences in the Carpa dosia) might be the equivalent to angels and gods.

Explicit angelic creatures would indeed not feel right me thinks...

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SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #18 on: 31 July 2003, 01:07:00 »

Heh. Maybe there can be a frost demon. After all, farmers wouldn't be happy with frost, as it kills crops. But frost is beautiful, so perhaps a beautiful, evil, female-looking demon could be used to explain frost. Just an idea. Throwing random ones out there.

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Xarl
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« Reply #19 on: 04 August 2003, 15:58:00 »

*drags Ghelgath in on a rope*

Someone say they needed a frost demon? It's not unlikely that Mr. Nastyface here could organize some nasty migetly minions to do his smaller biddings...

Xarl Bluestride, Archmage of the White Tower, Elder of the Magic Forum, Master of RP Sorcery and generally cool guy. All requests are to be written on the back of a ten-dollar bill (or equivelant thereof) placed on a gilded hemmhoroid, and tossed in the sewer system.
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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #20 on: 05 August 2003, 10:43:00 »

Now, who here hasn't read his Aviaria assignment for today?

We have Grothar, we have Nehtor, and all the other "good" gods.

We also have Etherus, Queprur, and all the others who can be viewed as "evil". Then we have Ava, and we have her "vcounterpar,t her darkside, or whatever, Coor.

There is your archtype good (Ava), archtype evil (Coor), and their "angels" and "devils" (The gods)




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Smith in Exile
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« Reply #21 on: 05 August 2003, 15:03:00 »

@SIlfer: lol, that's just only one way to view things... trust me :smokin  

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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #22 on: 05 August 2003, 15:35:00 »

Of course it is, however it is IMHO a fully good suggestion on how to solve our problem.


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Xarl
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« Reply #23 on: 05 August 2003, 21:42:00 »

Hooo boy. Silfer, time to suffer some cosmological wrath.

Neither Queprur nor Etherus is truly evil. Etherus is mischevious, and Queprur's a control freak, but both are firmly stuck in their situations now. There are no devils, cosmologically... save the High Demons, created specifically to mess with Creation and their opposites.

As Arti has pointed out to me, Etherus can't be pinned as an evil force. Sure, he's annoying, and he's the cause of all sorts of annoyance in the early days of existence, but he's also the source of creativity, of passion, and in general the wellspring of a great deal that is good. After all, even the most orderly system needs a little well-meaning chaos now and then... hence Etherus, the living incarnation of the Casual Friday of the Divine.



(Needless anthromorphism follows. Like all the gods, Queprur's an easily reinterpreted figure, but I think this bit roughly follows the system I dragged out of Arti and company one day I was bored.)

Likewise Queprur. She's the control freak of the Gods. She (at least last time I checked, she) thinks existence would be best preserved as a statue to Ava's glory, not with this rampant, chaotic force that is Life running all over the place, and changing the good, clean Earth that she labored along with Urtengor and Arvins to produce. Her alliance with Etherus in the early days of Caelereth was probably one of the shortest-lived ones ever; they both wanted life destroyed, but for completely opposite reasons. Etherus wanted to shake up his divine buddies, and Queprur seriously wanted life wiped out before it could cause any trouble. She's a cosmic naysayer, but she's fallen into the order of the situation. She keeps life from getting out of hand, but she's always grumbling about how she'd like to do more.

In conclusion, they ain't evil, and none of them had crap to do with the weather anyway.

Xarl Bluestride, Archmage of the White Tower, Elder of the Magic Forum, Master of RP Sorcery and generally cool guy. All requests are to be written on the back of a ten-dollar bill (or equivelant thereof) placed on a gilded hemmhoroid, and tossed in the sewer system.
Xarl Bluestride
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When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons. And make super-lemons.
No Longer Master of the Magic Forum, but still basically dominate the place. All bribes to xarl@santharia.com

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Silfer Darkflare
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« Reply #24 on: 06 August 2003, 09:51:00 »

I did not say they were evil, just that they could be wieved as evil... by e.g. humans, who like to put things in boxes.


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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #25 on: 09 August 2003, 02:11:00 »

Concerning weather I remember that the titans are said to cause most of the natural disasters (floods, vulcanoes, droughts, blizzards) with their powers even as they're restrained and bound at the far edges of Caelereth.

What if Grothrar's responsibility is not just to make the weather according to the needs but also has to control the weather as it is heavily turnt upside down by the titans.

Like the Titan of water causes a hurrican on the high sea with lots of rain  and it is seen as Grothrar's responsibility to cease the hurricane and make the clouds reach the lands of Caelereth as refreshing rain clouds instead.


Just some idea. Demons are more orientated towards moralic aspects and towards humans so I'm not sure they'd be generally responsible for bad weather.

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SmurfStormcrow
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« Reply #26 on: 10 August 2003, 00:40:00 »

Yeah, humans wouldn't be especially likely to look at some being's higher motives, and say "Ya know, even though they don't like life and want to destroy it, they actually have higher principles. I guess they aren't that evil. Yeah, I guess we would be better off without life."

No, people are more likely to think, "Ahh! That THING wants me dead! It must be evil!"

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #27 on: 10 August 2003, 00:14:00 »

Nope, about all religions from Christianity to Ancient Egyptians promise eternal life in paradise after death. That death was seen as evil is something that appeared in later ages. During the Middle Ages and before Death was just too mysterious and common to see it as evil. It was seen as inevitable and thus a God of Death or the like wouldn't be perceived as evil.

It's not that simple. Only because our enlightened civilization fears death we should not assume that this is the only way to deal with something as inevitable as death.


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Edited by: Koldar Mondrakken at: 8/9/03 8:16
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Bard Judith
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« Reply #28 on: 11 August 2003, 07:07:00 »

I like the titan concept, Koldar, especially if that is something original to the site that was simply never developed.  It also makes Grothar's 'job' more complex and intriguing - so he may or may not be directly responsible for good/bad weather.

Of course 'good' and 'bad' are completely relative in terms of weather, because a farmer might be praying to Grothar for rain for her crops while a fisherman might hope for calm weather so that the boats can go out!

Sometimes Grothar creates weather directly - other times he involves himself in a disturbance that was originated by a titan's upheaval - sometimes he lets the chaos ebb around him and the rain and clouds go where they may.  

I would also suggest that parts of Sarvonia would believe in a variety of factors,  like nature spirits that aid Grothar, titans that complicate his job, a frost daemon or dew dryad, and the Snow Maiden!  

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"Give me a land of boughs in leaf /  a land of trees that stand; / where trees are fallen there is grief; /  I love no leafless land."   --A.E. Housman
 
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