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Author Topic: The Soul of the City  (Read 6687 times)
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Victhorin
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« Reply #15 on: 27 July 2004, 10:10:00 »

First of all I am sorry.

Yes. After reading your post again I see that you did not order me as much as I thought. I do apologise.

Quote:
After much consideration I hereby suggest that you reconsider wether your tone in your post two posts up is the wisest course of action in achieving your goals. As the post with my suggestions contain not a single 2nd person pronoun addressing you to do anything. There's also only a single imperative in the last sentence as a conclusion of what I'd find a neat idea in how to look at this entry. You'll also find at least two paragraphs starting with a conjunctive structure ("would";)  indicating the hypothetical nature of the following paragraph.


Did not make me any wiser than before and that if something measures my english-skill.:o  

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #16 on: 27 July 2004, 11:34:00 »

ok, no problem then, I just wanted to be sure. We're all stupid humans with more hormons than brain cells. ;)

As I've roamed the forum more thoroughly the last days than I was capable of the weeks before I found your library entry and found that someone else had the same thought as I did, maybe that irritated you, but I really didn't see that until today.

Anyway, the basic idea to make this one of the eight stones of Menemronn is simply to tie this entry to other things of Nybelmar, esspecially another precious artefact: The throne of Menemronn.

This is also not necessarily contradicting to the view of the dwarves that this stone was created by their gods. The idea I have about it, would be that this stone was robbed by Menemronn from the old cities that were destroyed and then used it for his Throne of Menemronn, the reason exactly being that it is the biggest black diamond ever found. Somewhere after the war this stone - which had become the Lightstone of Earth/Darkstone of Stone - was returned to the dwarves and hidden by them deep within their city.
The reason for this being to prevent that all eight stones ever again are all combined to create the pool of power Menemronn nurished and thus that once again doom might befall a dwarven city(just as it is saying now, just adding this already existing threat as additional explanation).
However as the stone also has this dwarven history of yours so the Kavogerim might claim it to reopen their mines (at least that way I interpret the Journals so far) However the bad thing with all the stones is that menemronn tinkered with them and thus their powers are deceptive. Storing it deep below a mountain in a secure chamber possibly being the only harmless thing someone can do with such an artefact.

Me mentioning the Chyrakisth was simply you did so concerning one of the dwarvesI drew the conclusion that they stole the stone or helped stealing it because they are interested in aquiring the Throne of Menemronn.

Now, why make a simple story so complex? The main thing would be simply to give such a powerful artefact more history than sitting in a chamber. Found by dwarves. Stolen by Menemronn and tinkered around with. Later reclaimed by elves. After lots of trouble the elves are willing to give it back to the dwarves (actually lots of trouble between dwarves and elves are possible here, too). Dwarves hide it deep in their city. Suddenly it gets stolen again... etc.
Another would be to keep simply the amount of such special artefact as small as possible.
And the last is to interweave one string of events with some others to make one idea have an effect of several things, not just one.

I simply would find this extremely interesting as it could create interesting tension and reason for extraordinary events/adventures/deeds something these stones I mentioned are meant to do and that the Kiingerim have a very personal agenda with it makes it just even more interesting.

This is simply an idea I would think incorporate this stone of yours into a greater context and can cause a whole avalanche of nasty surprises that could fill the Nybelmarian history.Like the Kaŭr at first not giving the stone back to the Kiingerim explaining why only the korweynites are left as the Kaŭr allies (they pi**ed off anyone else)

If you absolutely do not see something like that working (the above are just various ideas I see might be working because of it) I have to accept that. I just think this stone would have alot of potential story-/historywise when adding some more  ups and downs in its early history.


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

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Victhorin
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« Reply #17 on: 28 July 2004, 00:01:00 »

Quote:
ok, no problem then, I just wanted to be sure. We're all stupid humans with more hormons than brain cells
:lol

I'll see what I can do.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

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Victhorin
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« Reply #18 on: 28 July 2004, 02:35:00 »

So, let me see if I got this right.

I can keep the part about the stone being created by a dwarven god (at least that is what the dwarves believe.)

The stone is kept inside, lets say Kerrintyr (capitol of the Kiingerim), until Menemronn steals it and after that crushes the dwarves.

Menemronn does his things with this stone as one of the eight stone, perhaps the Darkstone of Stone.

When he falls, and falls hard, the elves take the stones to the Emerald Forest.

There, they cause all kinds of trouble.

The dwarves of Tyr Faerath learn that the elves have it and demands to have it back.

The elves would be glad to get rid of it, but since they are elves and do not like dwarves very much, they grumble some, and then give it back.

The dwarves lock it up in a vault and…


Is that right? I must say I like it even if it’s not.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

Edited by: Victhorin at: 7/29/04 10:25
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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #19 on: 28 July 2004, 04:01:00 »

Yes, along these lines. Maybe we can cause outright trouble between dwarves and elves with tyr Faerath starting one of it's few military campaigns to demand it back . I think that as elves are elves there might be really nasty  conflict between the two sides. But yeah, you got it right! :)  


Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

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« Reply #20 on: 28 July 2004, 09:25:00 »

One thing was not right though: the stone cannot be the "darkstone" since the elves took only the "lightstones" => this should be the "good" stone not the "evil" one.  

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #21 on: 28 July 2004, 13:19:00 »

you mean one of the good evil ones opposed to the evil evil ones or was it evil good...? ;)

Yes, lightstones are thought by the elves to be harmless and thus taken.


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Victhorin
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« Reply #22 on: 29 July 2004, 02:40:00 »

Can anyone tell me the approx. denisty of diamonds?

Beside from that I think I'm pretty much done.

Kodar, please check the History and Myth/Lore-part.
I tried to separate the Myth and the History in “Before” and “After” the WoC.

I think they knowledge about the time before should be very limited, at least in Kiingerim point of view.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

Edited by: Victhorin at: 7/28/04 11:07
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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #23 on: 29 July 2004, 03:39:00 »


I added suggestions and possible additoions in orange. I'd flesh out the myth part and add some more info about the stone's history even if it's vague and unaccounted for., rumours so to speak.


History


[Maybe add here where it was supposedly found, that it was said to be lost for the dwarves in the WoC and Menemronn made of it the Lightstone of Earth. After the War the Elves as the leaders of the war against the last Chosen took the Lightstones with them warning the other races that the others might be harmful. The dwarves who participated in the last battle did not see the true nature of this particular Lightstone or did not dare to challenge the Kaŭr at the peak of their power and with lots of grumbling  obeyed their call. Thus the stone came into the possession of the Kaŭr and the knowledge of the history of this stone got lost in the seclusion of the Emerald woods. But the stones brought no luck to the elves and after several millenias even the Lightstones showed their deceptive nature and in the Civil War of teh Kaŭr the word of these stones once again came to the ears of the dwarves and thought the time has come to demand back their property.

Well, that would be just one variant on the early years of the stones. Just add some more flesh on the whole history part.


Hundreds of years after the end of the War of the Chosen, the dwarves, heard of the lightstones of the Emerald Forest. The Kiingerim were once again strong behind a high wall and wanted their god-given stone back. The elves didn’t want the stones anymore, but as the elves hate dwarves, they first refused.

Well, I would put the whole event into the timeframe of the Elven Civil War. The Kaŭr elves just realized that the usage of these stones is dangerous and simply didn't want to give it to someone else as they feared what could happen then.  They didn't want them but they also wanted these remnants of Menemronn's doing  to be handled by less "wise" races than them. At this point the Firestone would have been lost to the Ifer'hem and the Windstone probably disappeared in the Fall of the Korweynite Empire. Thus they also wanted to hold on the two they still had even if only for safekeeping. Given the religious nature this stone has for the dwarves it is apparent that this won't be enough to them.

The dwarves answered with cutting of the traderoutes.
The elves just laughed at that. They could do without the trade to the west. Instead of doing this  just let the relations between the two drastically tense up. The dwarves didn't dare to seek trouble with the Kaŭr after the WoC because they were strong but now with all the trouble the elves have in their woods the situation is quite reversed.

This made the dwarves mad and for the first time since the War of the Chosen, the dwarven army was once again ready for war. They started their march to the east and the Emerald Forest, but the only fight they fought was with a small group of elven scouts. When the closed in on the forest an emissary came out stating that the elves hereby gave the dwarves a gift. This 0made the dwarves even more angry but they took the stone and turned home.
The emissary could not resist and shouted: “Try not to loose it this time!”
The emissary was dead three seconds later.

This is very funny but maybe not quite epic/serious enough considering what the dwarves think is at stake (and the elves, too, given that a dwarf army is marching their way)

The most fascinating story about the Morongetyr is perhaps the one about how it was stolen. For more than 7800[this is now obsolete I figure] years it had its place within the vault. The stone was considered a myth by many of the common dwarves.
The stone is said to be impossible to steal, as you need the approval of all seven council members to open the door. That is if you don’t have powerful magic backing you up. The fact that it’s so hard to steal has created a saying among the Kiingerim. “Certain as the Morongetyr is still in place” means that something is undeniably certain.

This belief was torn by the theft of the stone in 302 b.S. How the thieves did it is not known, but one day, when the new guards came down to the vault to relieve the old ones they found them dead, the vault opened and the Soul gone.
They immediately called for the council and the seven members came. None had lost his key and all had good alibis even though the door had not been broken up and the locks were intact. Speculations began if it was an act of an enemy of city, a mighty wizard or if Tyr Hthom had lost his trust in them. They all agreed not to spread the word as that would worry the population too much.
The military leader, the Hthom, was given the order, by the council, to find the Soul and take it back. He had one month to complete the task or, according to the myth the city would be doomed.
Usually a military leader would seize the opportunity to reinforce his army and start a massive search operation. But Tyrilin Opolin knew better. He knew that the soldiers would not be able to keep quite so he turned to those who always kept quite. The thieves of the city.
He could not approach them directly as thieves and militaries rarely like each other, so he got in touch with his Chief of spies. The Chief arrange a meeting with the seven best thieves.
Although the crimes committed in the city were few, thieves still existed, even though the thieves of Tyr Faerath were more civilized and calm than most thieves. Murder happened only once every ten years.
The seven of them were sent out to find the Soul with the promise that they would be richly awarded. They all went in different direction at first.
I'm still not quite convinced about the thief part simply because you state yourself that there are rarely any crimes in Tyr Faerath, would these thieves be really seen as someone capable of bringing it back not just as some petty street thugs who are too stupid to work at a legal job?

Thirteen days later the Hthom heard that the first hade come back. Apparently he had given up. He also said he had seen two of the others fall when fighting Chyrakisth warriors and he had heard that two more had given up and were now settled in Kormendale. [Could the thieves just give up and retun without risking their neck? I find the reference to Kormendale a bit too specific, given that these thieves probably wanted to hide from any pursuers. Maybe just state they fled eastward?
That left two to hope for and still the council and the Hthom were the only ones who knew about the theft.
One of the returned on the very last day of the month. He was coming from the east and sand and dust covered him from top to toe. His eyes were damaged from the bright sun and he limped due to a cut in his leg. But he had the Morongetyr with him, rapped up in an old piece of cloth. He fell to his knees as he entered the Main Gate and had to be carried home by his friends.
no mentioning about the Kavogerim who took it?

The Soul was taken back to its vault when the council spread the word that the Soul had been lost but that The Searcher Dolo Groilin, son of a thief, had brought it back. When the council went to the thief’s home to give him his reward he had died from the infection in his leg.

The funeral was the most impressive in the history of the town. Every dwarf came to witness the procession as they took the dead body of Dolo to the vault were he was laid to rest with the Soul of the City. The city he saved at the cost his life.

Myth/Lore

The Kiingerim believe that their God, TyrHthom, created the jewel as a token of his protection and love for the tribe.
They say that he forged the stone under supervision of Trum-Baroll in the forges of Trum Dispor’Baroll.
Tyr Hthom, The Head of the City, is the god of the Kiingerim and the protector of the tribe. He is the brother of Hunyeh Hthom, Head of the Mine that is the protector of Kavogerim and before that the Toltrumerim. They trained with Trum-Baroll as apprentices.

Tyr Hthom also poured his protection, his love for the dwarves, into the stone. As he was not a strong god, his strength would only last as long as the stone would rest inside the walls of the city. If taken outside of those the powers would only last one month. After that the tribe would begin to diminish.

When Menemronn, the dark wizard in the times of the War of the Chosen, started his attack on the dwarves, crushing them inside the towns and mines, he first stole the stone to use it in his throne.

When Menemronn later fell the elves took all the lightstones to the Emerald Forest. They believed the stone could do good things. They were wrong. The stone only led to mistrust, crimes and war. This part more mythical and vague?


The history and myths part could need some more fleshing out I suppose because everything is  not very elaborated in describing the events that took place. If you want me to help you with more details on the elven part I'd be glad to help. I can flesh out my ideas of the lves then , too. I hope this helps a bit!



Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight

Edited by: Koldar Mondrakken at: 7/28/04 11:40
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Victhorin
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« Reply #24 on: 29 July 2004, 14:40:00 »

Koldar. With all of my heart! HELP with the elven parts. I don't get those thin-eared, tall and arrogant (oops, the last thing was from my dwarven heart) elves.

I can use all the help I get.

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

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Coren FrozenZephyr
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« Reply #25 on: 29 July 2004, 15:05:00 »

Victhorin son of smith Vartorin Norilin, you are lucky that the elven mistresses- Wren, Viresse and Rayne for the most part - aren't around.

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« Reply #26 on: 30 July 2004, 00:38:00 »

Ah, but us well-travelled, cosmopolitan Compendium writers can overlook our ethnic heritage, or at least set it aside long enough to appreciate other cultures and races of Caelereth!

As a human bard who hangs out with dwarves much of the time, Judith has to confess that she sometimes finds her own race rather flighty and superficial when compared with Thergerim patience and perspective...  

@ Koldar: Thank you so much for taking the time to look this over in such detail!  I wouldn't have had all the background and history even if I had had the time to comment... and it looks the stronger for the discussion.

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Victhorin
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« Reply #27 on: 03 August 2004, 00:45:00 »

Koldar: I have two questions before I start writing again:

1) When was the elven cilvil war?

2) What do you mean "tense up between them"?

Impatient? Me? Who said that? Come on, tell me! We haven't got all day!

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #28 on: 04 August 2004, 03:43:00 »

1) The civil war will be started somewhere before 3200 b.S.(Fall of the Korweynites, the only allies of the Kaŭr)  and rage for centuries. Maybe make it somewhere around 2800-2900 b.S. when the elves are exhausted and it is apparent that they won't reunite. Maybe it is even one of the Ifer'hem Lords that tips your dwarves anticipating that it will cause trouble for the Kaŭr.

2) Instead of closing trade routes the elves do not use anyway make it an aggressive exchange of demands, the dwarves want it back and rattle with their axes and the elves do not want to give it them because they behave so aggressive and they found the stone extremely dangerous.

Also make it a real campaign against the Kaŭr. That the dwarves survived entering those woods show how weakened the Kaŭr tuely were. Not some bloody main battle but an exchange of skirmishes between elven archers and a dwarven army marching in an armored column. When it gets clear the dwarves cannot be stopped from laying siege and possibly waste to a Kaŭr city the Kaŭr give in, offering a cease fire and some peace talks. In these talks the return of the stone is agreed, esspecially when the dwarves make it clear that they only want to lock this stone up in a safe place so their city will be save.


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Viresse
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« Reply #29 on: 17 June 2005, 13:58:00 »

!

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