what rpg relevant information do you miss at santharia?

[Muargath]

"Because we, the mods and administrators of the RP board, decided to encourage detail and good writing skills, unlike the many Yahoo boards and other RPG boards that tend to... well, suck." -Dasson

No kidding!  I understand fully what you say here, but what good is all the detail in a CD when it is all forgotten in the posts?  

Some people play their PCs with far more power than the CD indicates.  Sure it's the Game Mod's place to point this out, like Atrii had to do recently in his game... but what happens when it is the Game Mod that is powergaming.  There aren't any rules to build CDs for NPCs be they ally or foe, so what's to keep a Mod from playing an NPC as their own character?

And then there is the "lost" CDs from PCs so old that the original CD thread has fallen off the edge of the world.  These PCs get to play anywhere and who knows what level they are at?

The way these instances are handled (or not handled) is inconsistant.  And it is unfair for new people to this board, because they are having to create PCs to the strictest details.  I wouldn't be surprised if we lost some good potential writers and players over it.

I think that what is written in the games holds more weight than what is in the CD.  Don't get me wrong, I think detailed CDs are good but overkill is not necessary.  And as far as CD development is concerned, we be in overkill territory right now...

[Muargath]

Thanks Eryk.

Detailed CDs are important.  The threads that Rayne created (CD Building Guide, Titles List, Races' Age List, et al.- Contact Rayne for the full to-do) are what has made the more recent CDs better.  I think we can all agree on that.

We need more of these types of references on the RPG board.  I don't think we should expect Arti to change the Santharian site at all.  Anyone who wants to go there to find flavor for their PC or storyline can always do so... but necessary information, such as excepted races, we can add such items to this board, without compromising the project next door.

[Raoneth]

Though I agree completely with Dasson that santharia.com is far more user-friendly than most info-sites, I think that's very mutch because most info-sites are horribly bad.

Though world developement may be the most importaint part of the site, I don't think it can be denied that most people who come here are RPers who later turn to the developement board when they're bitten by the bug.
So, my suggestion on a new design would be something like this:

Left bar: The "site menu" with the icons with text. Like so:
Races and tribes
et.c.

and add a more obvious search button.

Get the "site update" in a small scrollable text field on the bottom of the center frame.

Make the welcome a short introduction and add links to the dev. board, rpg board and commissions in the centre frame.

- Santharian FAQs
- Menu Navigation
- Site Introduction
Can be put under a "help!" button.

- Web History Archive
... 2003 - I, II
... 2002 - I, II, III, IV, Best of
... 2001 - II, III, IV
- Awards I, II, III, IV, V
Is all "history" or something like that.

Copyright notes should be added in the bottom right corner where you'd expect to find the "all rights reserved... et.c." text.

And
- Banners of Santharia
- Link Exchanges (graph.)
- Link Exchanges (text)

do not need seperate links or sites.

I think that covers most of it...

[Raoneth]

Quote:do not need seperate links or sites.

"Sites"? I meant pages...  

[Mina]

Wait a minute...there's a search button?  

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Short note: While it is good and well that you think on  web design issues, please note that the main question posed here was: What RPG relevant information do you miss at Santharia? Though this includes the way you find this information as well, be aware that any web design changes need to be thoroughly evaluated, concepted and re-concepted, graphically designed, images drawn etc. With other words (and also because of the fact that there is a clear development schedule for the next months): There are no major web design changes to be expected soon. Which shouldn't prevent you from making proposals, though.

To find the Search Button and many other things, try this page, by the way, Mina...

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

[Terra Artemos]

Quote:Some people play their PCs with far more power than the CD indicates. Sure it's the Game Mod's place to point this out, like Atrii had to do recently in his game... but what happens when it is the Game Mod that is power-gaming. There aren't any rules to build CDs for NPCs be they ally or foe, so what's to keep a Mod from playing an NPC as their own character?

Muargath, this is a good point and should be addressed. Would you have any suggestions on how we start to address it?

Quote:And then there is the "lost" CDs from PCs so old that the original CD thread has fallen off the edge of the world. These PCs get to play anywhere and who knows what level they are at?

Well, this has been discussed before, and it was determined fare that the player be responsible for their CDs, and be able to present the CD for any character active in a story at the story mods request. As a result, if they can not, the are required to recreate the CD in question. Again additional suggestions on this are welcomed.

As for CD Detail being in overkill territory, I believe this was true, was discussed, and as Rayne has said, we are relaxing our expectation to an extend. I to think we should get back to working more with the details that are written, and not so much asking for more, unless certain details left out seem to have a significant impact on the character.

'I am grey. All but those like me see only darkness and light, they do not see the grey between them. In this greyness I dwell. I would not wish this fate on any other.'

Terra Artemos Character Description

[Catchfire]

I think, as Arti suggested earlier, a newbie FAQ is a great idea to help compliment Rayne's excellent 'Guide to CC.' I think a commerce report, maybe a 'quick fact' guide for races and tribes so people don't have to read the whole site to find out what tribe they might like, basic size and distances in Santharia, elven aging, the technology level of transportation, etc, and frequent newbie mistakes concerning things like mithril, orcs and dragons would all be nice things to have in the FAQ.  All these things could be conslidiated in one forum topic in the CCF for ease of use, and placed on this site but offering links to the main page.  It should also be noted that such a supplement would not be a replacement for real research on the main site, but only a primer to help you get started.

Of course, I don't think any RPers are offended that much of the focus is on world development.  We do our things here, and it's fun, and we are not affected by the Dev board priority.  We have a unique world to play in that we can help build, and I have never encountered any problems with that.

Also, only game mods can keep abreast on whether or not characters follow their CDs.  Admins can only encourage mods to do this, but can't enforce it.  Eventually, these mods will not earn respect from the more veteran Rpers, and will either have to change their ways, or not mod games anymore.  It is not an enforceable rule, but moderation should be encouraged. And, of course, it is.  Better than we should hope.

Maybe we could bring this thread back on topic, speaking about what information we should be able to have better access to as RPers, instead of SD site critiquing and General Administrative criticism.

Peace.

Be Bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid... - Basil King

Not all who wander are lost... - J.R.R. Tolkien

[Koldar Mondrakken]

Webdesign changes might not be necessary, as a newbie faq in the new players forum and/or in the char desc forum could for now also be supplied with the links to find certain info. To offer quick access it might be useful to offer these sources in link lists and not in continuous text as the laster is always more difficult to read if you just want to head the right direction and only need the link to this or that tribe.

I guess we should try to reduce the amount of info threads to two. One for help about what to do and one on where to find things (like elven age, tribes, etc.). If you need help a little html coding would be a nice diversion from watching render process...(boring! )

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
Weakness is strength. Hope is life.

Edited by: Koldar Mondrakken at: 8/3/03 11:44

[Artimidor Federkiel]

Short note on webdesign issues: What I did plan anyway at some point (though time of realization can't be defined right now) is some sort of tour through Santharia for newbies.

Such a tour would consist of 5 or 6 pages, each page dealing with a certain aspect of the Dream in short form and what is required/what you need to do in order to get part of Santharia somehow the one way or the other. So pages would look like this: general intention, navigation, development part, RPG part, FAQs etc. This way people should get a better introduction right from the start with a straightforward step-by-step navigation without having to find the most important information they require manually. If this link to the tour is clearly visible at the Web History page (and the tour also describes how you can get back to this tour when you're lost), other design issues are not necessarily needed immediately and can be evaluated in the course of time later on. This is because the navigation part of the tour can cover most things you need to know about site navigation, so that people can accomplish the first steps for better understanding themselves and go on from there.

However, as I've already said: Such a tour is not on the priority list yet as I only have two hands, but it is something I've been thinking about, which fits in here very well, so I wanted to make sure to keep you up to date here on already existing plans which spook through my head anyway  

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 8/3/03 11:50

[Koldar Mondrakken]

good idea.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
Weakness is strength. Hope is life.

[Muargath]

I like the idea of creating primer areas and having links to pertinent areas in the development site.

We need two primer areas at least.  One would obviously be in the CCF, but the other should address information needed for game or story set up.  Since the CD issue is well handled for now, I'll tackle the other one (since I have recently been in the midst of such struggle):

1) Suggestions for appropriate plotlines (with examples) for the World of Caelereth would be a good way to start.  These can be world encompassing, regional, or local, the latter being tied to various regions or continents.  (I'd like to see less save-the-world type stories starting up... IMHO) This would not be a list to choose from, but rather a list for comparison.

2) Along with "How to start a story", a listing of general guidelines for Game Mods would be helpful.  (This would be the place to talk about the roles of NPCs in any story and how powerful to make the opposition.)  Requirements for a story could be set here or listed separately.  (An example requirement would be to state where the story would take place because choosing a generic local is an easy way to get around the guidelines).

3) A short list of areas that are off limits, or if that is too long, then a list of suggested geographical areas to run plotline in. (i.e., setting a game within the walls of Ximax, might not be appreciated)

4) A short list of races that are off limits, or if certain races are restricted in certain areas. (Orcs. 'Nuff said.)

5) Suggestions for local, regional, and worldwide laws and punishments for breaking these laws. (Example: like how the Remusian's distrust of magic is enough for them to burn witches at the stake.)  While there may be something like this already, I have yet to find it.  This could be a development site issue, but links to the right info would be great.  Gathering all this type of info into one place for easy reference will give people more ideas for plots and subplots, as well as to flesh CDs.

Unfortunately, I've somewhere to be real soon so I must cut this list of ideas short.  But the above are examples of things that would facilitate more role-playing games and of a greater variety here in Caelereth.  We wouldn't need to create a new forum either, just place the threads under Role Playing Web Design and sticky them.

"There is serenity in Chaos.
Seek ye the Eye of the Hurricane."
- so says the Principia Discordia

[Raoneth]

Well, I don't think I ever really read the "role playing tutorial"... it was too long and I pretty mutch felt I got the point of it reading the "ten commandments". What I think should be included, somewhere easily spotted, would be a short definition and explanation of play-by-post rpging and what sets this board apart from other pbprpg-boards. Reading long texts like that on a screen is really annoying without proper motivation, and if I'm not mistaken, those texts are there for providing this motivation for reading later texts.

Otherwise... I can't really remember any other things I was confused about as a newbie. Except maybe the fact that "YOU NEED A TITLE TO PLAY"... but that was probably just me.

Raoneth - Me

[Raoneth]

Incidentally, I really like the new splash screen. Who made it?

Raoneth - Me

[Mina]

Quote:Updated Santharian frontpage picture, now representing the works of several Santharian artists, ranging from Faugar, Quellion, Enayla to Eritinalinfalah (design & composition Artimidor)

That's from the latest site update.  

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

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