what rpg relevant information do you miss at santharia?

[Fox]

The Santharian Dream site... not user friendly? *laughs*

I find it more user friendly AND beautiful than any other information site I've ever seen.

I'm hoping that newbies aren't dumb enough to not be able to find the information easily. Unfortunately, from experience, that isn't the case. *sighs*

However, if a new RPer isn't motivated enough to make the attempt to find the information, they won't be motivated to do the harder task of making an acceptable NPC.

The site not user friendly... puh. It's not there for the RPers. Arti doesn't and shouldn't need to do work so newbies don't have to. That's just stupid.

Same goes with the races. Terra, the site has no reason to list which races and tribes are available for RP use, it's not an RP site. One of the many newbie help guides and such on the boards should have the list of what is and is not acceptable.


As for magic, Mina, we're working on that.

Santharian Master of Magic. Contact at dasson@santharia.com
The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

[Mina]

I agree with what as been said about the main site.  The first time I got here(probably from Elfwood or Utopia), I couldn't figure out how to navigate it at all, so I left rather quickly.  It was quite some time before I somehow ended up here again and finally figured out how to navigate the site.  

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

[Terra Artemos]

Even so Dasson, look how much of the menu is actually given to the majority of site content.

Lets see, here is what the majority of the menu if for:

Quote:The Website


- News & Web History
- Menu Navigation
- Site Introduction
- Santharian FAQs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Santharian Teaser
The Hall of Fame

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Awards I, II, III, IV, V
- Copyright Notes
- Supporting Santharia
- Web History Archive
... 2003 - I, II
... 2002 - I, II, III, IV, Best of
... 2001 - II, III, IV

For Webmasters


- Banners of Santharia
- Link Exchanges (graph.)
- Link Exchanges (text)
Portal of Worlds

Commissions


- Get your Fantasy Portrait
- Other Commissions
- Art by Faugar
- Art by Quellion
- Music/Sound by Ralrok

Is this the main content this site is providing?

I mean look at the presence this stuff gets when you first visit the site. Tell me any of the above is really of any intrest to anyone who visits this site for any reason.

I would reason that there are 22 menu items at the top of the menu bar that deserve at least twice the presence they are given when someone first arrives at the site, and should problebly maintain that presence for the diration of that users stay.

Also if TSD is not for RPers, what is it, and its content for? I would like Arti to answer that one before we get any further on how to give the main content of the site it due presence, wether that ends up being the stories, or the world inforation enties, the tutorials, or whatever.

'I am grey. All but those like me see only darkness and light, they do not see the grey between them. In this greyness I dwell. I would not wish this fate on any other.'

Terra Artemos Character Description

[Fox]

Well, maybe include a link on the first menu bar that links to the other menu bars in text form. But I don't like your idea of making the drop down menu in place of the icons.

Originally, the TSD was just a private site for Arti to contain the information for the trilogy of books he was writing, the Book of Paths as it is known in-character. Eventually it translated to English to make it available to people to see and read, and eventually people started coming and helping develop the world.

The RP board was only a side thing that Arti or someone thought, "Hey, let's let people RP in this world we made!". Anyone who reads the introduction and or Arti's bio should know this. o.o

Santharian Master of Magic. Contact at dasson@santharia.com
The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

[Artimidor Federkiel]

The Santharian Dream is primarily a fantasy world development project, in the most general way this can be interpreted. Role Playing is only a part of the site, but still not the main focus.

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

[Muargath]

...Straight from the Administrator's fingertips:  We're not the main focus, so why waste time on us?

What I don't understand is, if this RPG board is so unimportant (in comparison to "the project"), then why make people jump through such drastic hoops just to have some fun here?  Less than a year ago, people's characters were getting approved on far less detail.  Same with the games.  Nothing that happens here will affect what goes on in the development area, right?  So what's the big deal?

It was news to me, and quite late in the game I might add, that the RPG board was a secondary interest to the development board.  Other than researching for my own characters, and an attempt at running a game, I never felt any real need to go to the sister-site (or should we call it the mother ship now?).  What about those of us who think this board is the main site and that the development project is merely a support site?  Are we so easily dismissed?  Without this RPG board, where would your impetus be?  What motivation would you have?  And where would you recruit all the great writers that are willing to work on your project for free?  

Take a look around, there are people working just as hard on this board as the other one.... a huge amount of people.  Telling people that their work is unimportant or doesn't matter will only make them feel bad.  Some of us would like to see this RPG board succeed in its own right.


Koldar, my suggestion, is to do everything you can on the RPG board to help out the new people.  Creating a guide, lists, or a walk-thru tutorial on this end is far easier than asking for changes on the other board.


Muargath


By the way, Dasson, saying that newbies are dumb just because they can't navigate the Santharian board is mean.  Shame on you.

[Artimidor Federkiel]

As usual Muargath shows the rare ability to twist every word you say into the opposite. Ah well, should already be used to that...  When I read your posts I sometimes feel I should really be ashamed to even have started such a project, huh?

The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 8/2/03 9:13

[Koldar Mondrakken]

Muargath, may I help you out:

Development: world development
Rpg board: roleplaying funzone

Two projects, the world dev board develops Caelereth, the roleplaying board offers rpg stories in Caelereth, however the two projects are not connected for the world development board would continue developing the world with or without a rpg board. Thus the RGP is not the main focus of the site but another service which simple was a reasonable step given the detail that already went onto the site.

However the rgp-players are the most direct feedback one can get on the site and if there are certain things which might be to improve sometime in the future. That some people think that the first menu bar has little info on where to find what on the site is e.g. good to know as I wouldn't recognize that anymore, I find everything I want in less than a minute.

@Dasson: The main purpose of this thread is simply put: Direct feedback. Rpg-players came to the Santharian Dream like any other surfer on the web and thus will stumble over the same problems any other user would when he visits the Santharian Dream. While the world itsself will continue to be elaborated by itsself to flesh things out knowing that users find the info they're interested in is generally an important aspect wether they're rpg-players or fantasy-lovers. It's just, we have some rpg-players here.

And Muargath sometimes I wonder if you're building some serious paranoia about admins and mods. Take care of that, it gets boring.

Edited by: Koldar Mondrakken at: 8/2/03 9:37

[Muargath]

No, Arti.  Not at all.  You have done a great thing here and I mean it.  Without you, the site wouldn't exist.  All I ask is that you give credit where credit is due.  We all like this place, obviously (RPG board).  Even if it's not numero uno for you, please realize it is for some of us.

I've twisted no meanings.  Your earlier post made it clear where you stand on the matter.  But then, I realize you might not have meant it that way... that's just how it came across.

I suppose I should apologize again in advance for my bluntness.  I'm not trying to be mean.  I realize I am an unpopular voice here.  I realize that what I say will most likely be ignored until someone else echos my sentiments sometime down the road and that is something I'll just have to live with.  

A couple things to keep in mind:

1) I agree with you and Dasson.  The Santharian Dream board should not be altered for use of the RPG board, since that is not its purpose.

and

2) Please don't belittle the devotion that we have for this RPG board.  It's just as important to some of us as the other board is to you.

Once again, I'm not trying to "start" anything.  This is only my opinion.    

Cheers!

[Alýr (Rayne)]

Muargath, I don't know if you've really seen how things are being done as of late.

I am an administrator here on the boards now, and I have been here for a year. I roleplay here, but I also develop things. I know both worlds, and I know that everything we do on the development board is not done for the RPG. If it was, we wouldn't create the certain plants we do, or history. We wouldn't write poetry or stories. If we wanted to make things easier for the role-players, we probably wouldn't do any development, but we do. We develop, as I see it, not to create a world in which to RP, but a world that simply is, as something beautifully unique.

So the world is, and those here are those who have chosen to do more research and put forth more effort for the benefit of RPing in a world so incredibly different from any other, one far more layered and thorough.

But those who get lost are not forsaken, either. They can try to make a profile and, if they need help, we're here to help. I'm here to help, and I'm ready and willing to put forth all the knowledge that I can dish out to help a needing player. I have offered my IM screen named to those who have needed me. I have received and responded to e-mails of those asking for some help, some advice.

I think I put forth a great deal more on this board, because the Character Descriptions are longer and more detailed, at times, then a simple plant or beast. I have to sometimes do research to critique character profiles. In many cases I need to review a certain tribe or weapon or area to make sure everything is right. I have to make sure that people aren’t jumping halfway across the continent and saying it took them a few days. I need to review that hair color and skin color and customs are all followed. I need to make sure magic is right. If anything is wrong, I let them know. I tell them what to change, if a simple change is needed. If something doesn't work at all, I try to propose a new way to go about it, perhaps a method that was not first seen, or that they could not have known about because they never came across an entry for it.

You seem to imply that we do nothing to help out our new players, Muargath. I have created a Titles list. I helped compose the Guide to Character Creation. We are trying to create a price list and more exact measurements across the map, and there is a lot that you don't see here on the boards that is being done. Those who develop do care about role-playing. I see Arti reviewing the RP boards every single day. If he didn’t care, why would he bother?

Before you speak, Muargath, get all the facts.

Rayne Avalotus

...Ripples in the Dream Pool...

[Muargath]

"However the rgp-players are the most direct feedback one can get on the site and if there are certain things which might be to improve sometime in the future." -Koldar

Thanks, Koldar.  With this one statement you made my point.  The opinions of the Players shouldn't be taken lightly.  We have a purpose.  We are all important.  I admit I do get miffed when someone, anyone, hints this is not the case.  I'm not being paranoid to point it out.  If it seems that the Admins and Mods get the brunt of that, it's only for the obvious reason- they make the policies that the players have to live with.

As for the rest of your post, I am already well aware of it.  However, I am glad you wrote it because someone new to the board will read this thread and learn something good.

And lastly, I'm sorry if my opinions are boring you; I post them not for your entertainment, but to make a valid point.

Cheers!    

[Fox]

Quote:then why make people jump through such drastic hoops just to have some fun here? Less than a year ago, people's characters were getting approved on far less detail

Because we, the mods and administrators of the RP board, decided to encourage detail and good writing skills, unlike the many Yahoo boards and other RPG boards that tend to... well, suck. True, there are some that are good, but even on those I go and do the same work I do for here. It's natural for me, and looks better. It's not Arti's fault that this happened here, I'm not even sure if he was even a part of the decision to encourage the detail...

Quote:Without this RPG board, where would your impetus be? What motivation would you have? And where would you recruit all the great writers that are willing to work on your project for free?

I'm not sure how the RP board came up, but most of the developers don't RP here. Only Rayne, Koldar, Talia, Wren, and myself are the ones that I know of who are active. And from my knowledge, the current developers did not come from, nor for, the RP board.

Quote:By the way, Dasson, saying that newbies are dumb just because they can't navigate the Santharian board is mean. Shame on you.

I knew I was going to get bitched at for that. But what do you expect, I have a primarily low view on the average of humanity.

Quote:Rpg-players came to the Santharian Dream like any other surfer on the web and thus will stumble over the same problems any other user would when he visits the Santharian Dream.

Well, I guess I'm not any other surfer, now I'm I? I can't see how people are having problems.

Santharian Master of Magic. Contact at dasson@santharia.com
The Santharian Dream - Create the Dream. Live the Dream.

[Muargath]

No need to list all the things you do Rayne, we are ALL well aware of how hard you work on both sites- you make sure of that- and you were rewarded well for it.

I never implied any of what what you said.  Where did hell you get that?  Do you recall a thread started by Aylix recently?  A thread where nearly half the people who posted agreed that the rules need to be relaxed on this board because it doesn't effect the development board?  I suggest you reread that thread, my dear, and get off my back, please.  Because that is what we are talking about.  And for all the hard work you are doing, you are part of the problem, you see.  I can't believe I had to point that out to you.

Anyway, your post had nothing to do with my discussion with Koldar and Atri.

Sheesh.

[Alýr (Rayne)]

Just proving you wrong, dear, which obviously wasn't too hard.

And I'll have you know that we have made things more relaxed. At least, I have in my critiquing. Of course, you probably wouldn't know such things, would you?

...Ripples in the Dream Pool...

[Eryk Aisean]

Erk...erm...sorry to intrude on anything, but I personally think that the strict rules are one of the best things about this site.  If the rules kept getting relaxed (it would never get to this extent...I hope), it would turn to something like this:

Name: Jork
Gender: Male
Tribe: Superhero
Weaknesses: He is too strong for his own good
Strengths: He is invincible
History: He was born, grew up and then saved the world a few times
Possesions: An M4 automatic rifle

Now, I may be going out on a limb by saying that, but I've been part of RPGs which started out fine, but deteriorated into something like that.  Strict rules lead to better RPing.  Relaxing rules also would mean the quality of writing would probably be reduced.  People wouldn't bother with puntuation or spelling, and would start talking like this:

"so he said to the other gi hey i wan buy that sord how much"

Once again, I doubt it would ever detoriate to that level, but you get the picture.

About the site menu: Though it is well made, I think the individual icons should link more to what is behind them.  For example: the crossed swords (which I think implicate weapons/armies) links to history.  I think it should just be clearer as to what it is leading to.


I really don't think this needs to develop into a sniping match.  I know I may be out of place here, as I am new compared to almost everyone, but this thread was started for suggestions to make the site better, not for people to try and degrade the other as much as they can.  I believe we are all mature people here, and can handle something as elementary as creative suggestions.

In the words of Muargath: "Sheesh."

Mind, heart and body cannot be conquered.

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