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Author Topic: Brainstorming: Icetribes‘ Religion: The nature of the gods  (Read 21619 times)
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Takór Salenár
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« on: 18 August 2007, 05:43:02 »

Below is the part about the gods from the main entry and the section about people. If you have any good ideas, how this religion should look like, how the gods should act, which relation they should have to their people or how they interact with themselves, please post them.



Religion/Beliefs. The Icemen worship the forces of nature. They think that the world is ruled by 15 gods, who actually have the form of the element they represent, and are in a constant fight with each other allying occasionally for the needs of their war. The supreme gods are Phoblit (the male day god) and Nechya (the female night goddess), Brender (thunder), Asterlin (lightning), Chelinor (snow), Weabor (wind), Reanor (rain), Peierojon (fire), Pargis (ice), Heterniz (water), Zundefor (the land animal spirit, in the form of the great white bear), Aleshnir (the sea animal spirit in the form of a white whale), Necteref (death), Asendin (sea) and Ertemmir (the earth). These gods - according to Icemen mythology- are the breed of Afrasnyr the hermaphrodite chaos god, who - being alone for eternity - decided to fight with his own self and, during the struggle, he split himself to the 15 gods living inside them. The Icemen believe that Zundefor and Aleshnir mated with the other gods and with each other giving birth to mortal life. The humans according to their beliefs are the children of Phoblit and Nechya mating one time before they begin their eternal warfare.

The Icemen do not build temples or practice ceremonies for the major gods other than appeal rituals, when they seem menacing (during a storm for example). The Icemen carve totem poles in ice representing the animal that symbolises their individual tribe and is tattooed upon them. This way the totems establish a connection between them and the land itself. Their yearly renewal during the summer defines not only the change in seasons, but also the change in everyday life. Return to the top

A holiday:

 The Langral Meeting. The Icemen Lanruls once in 12 Parginlnags meet in Langral, a sacred place between Aelhrong and Eanin in order to beg the gods for their benevolence and discuss matters of common interest. During the meeting a cease  fire is established among every tribe. The only Ice Tribe that does not participate (but yet respects the cease fire) are the Himiko.



 People. The Icemen are mainly renowned for their ability as warriors. They live in a constant warfare among each other, the giants that live in their land and the elements of nature. They are considered fearless and with excellent endurance, although warriors from the civilised world consider them to be barbaric berserkers without a fighting technique. Their social ranking is determined by their gallantry in battle. Magic in general is abhorred by them as most of the advances of civilisation. Although mages are not generally welcome, several groups have been spared. However, usage of magic is punished with capital punishment.


The Ice Tribesmen are warlike people that live more on instinct than logic. They hardly express their emotions and usually they are hard and unforgiving in their everyday lives. They seldom feel compassion or mercy for anyone, which is considered as a sign of weakness, and they are offended if anyone feels that way for them. There is no providence for the weak or disabled who are left to die or slaughtered if they can’t kill themselves with honour. Old people who have no living relatives are left to die, unless they lost their families in war. Sterile males are condemned, because they produce no warriors for the tribe, while sterile females are forced to become prostitutes. The Ice Tribes recognise no human rights for those who can’t bear weapons. Women and children are considered living things and are in the absolute disposal of their Master (usually the father or husband). Among the Ice Tribes there is an old custom that if a female takes arms against the Himiko and kills at least one she achieves the warrior status as long as she is willing to participate in battle. However, females cannot achieve further honours as warriors as they are considered inferior to men.

The Ice Tribes are also notorious for the hardness of their lives. They can suffer the worst tortures without complaining just like they can mercilessly give pain to others. Slavery is an usual state of existence for the ones that can’t bare arms and defend themselves or for the defeated in battle.
A sound exception in the Ice Tribes is the Himiko tribe, who occupy the islands around the Three Islands‘Bay. In contrary to the majority of the other ice tribes on the mainland, they have not only a slightly other appearance, but a very different lifestyle as well. They are friendly and use a form of magic in their everyday life. This is the reason why the rest of the Ice Tribes hate the Himiko. Their hatred is revitalised by the fact that from time to time Himiko raiding parties steal their females, granting them freedom in their islands.



You will be of course fitter to join this brainstorming if you read the whole entry about the icetribes  and the myth section of following entries:


Icetribes, Main Entry
Thunderfoot
Hrugchuck Grass
The White Bear
Nechya‘s  Rope
Caracal
Hrugchuck Mouse
Wison
Flying  Spark Grass

After a few discussions, especially after Trels input I saw, that everybody who wants to dig deeper into this matter needs to know a bit about the model as well, e.g. that the days in the north are NOT shorter in winter etc. Especially the relation between the day and night gods has to be seen under the "laws" of the model - the day god (if we connect him to the sun) moves away and comes back, the nightgod stays and appears most times bigger then the day god.

so I recommend to go through the Model as well. (I did it some time ago, but the way to make it to an entry in the compediumis a hard and long one ;) )


 Happy brainstorming!
« Last Edit: 22 August 2007, 17:35:51 by Talia Sturmwind » Logged
Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #1 on: 18 August 2007, 05:46:52 »

Myth section in the Wison entry would be a good idea to read.
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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #2 on: 18 August 2007, 05:53:34 »

How could I miss that!  undecided huh rolleyes shocked
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Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin
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« Reply #3 on: 18 August 2007, 06:08:04 »

Its ok,  ;)

I would like to see that perhaps in the mythology of this pantheon, a more greek type of philosophy.  It would be nice to see the gods actively interfere with the mortals that have come after them.  Perhaps each tribe being descended from certain gods through love affairs with women (hearkening back to all of Zeus love interests with mortals: changing into a swan to seduce Leda, a bull to kidnap Europa, a shower of gold for Danae).  The gods picking sides in inter tribal wars, IE the Trojan War.

The ice Tribes are under such extreme pressures just to survive, it would make sense that the gods would seem to them to interfere.  Why did one tribe survive while others did not?  The gods of course.  How could something as the Hrugchuk grass and all its benefits come to be in such an inhospitable environment?  The gods.

I think it would be nice to see a mythology where the gods treated mortals almost as playthings.  This does not mean each does.  Perhaps Nechya might be one who views mortals as her children so to speak.

Just my san and a half worth of thought.
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Petros Greenvale
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« Reply #4 on: 18 August 2007, 06:42:58 »

Wow,Greek Mythology!!! :D

My R.E teacher said that i could have easily done a P.h.d. in it, and its something im really passionate about, id be more than happy to aid you in anyway i can! grin
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Arceon Barrurbeleth
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« Reply #5 on: 22 August 2007, 03:55:20 »

Another link you should add Talia: Flying Sparks Grass
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #6 on: 22 August 2007, 03:57:52 »

Thanks Arceon, how could I forget it, I mentored that entry!
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« Reply #7 on: 22 August 2007, 04:01:07 »

Despite having little input on this topic I would just like to say to Altario:

Its good to see somebody remembers what they write and 'recycles' it...Good Job with the ideas everyone!
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« Reply #8 on: 22 August 2007, 12:16:50 »

Hi Talia,

This one made me really think!  I like it.   :)

The way I see it, you've asked for brainstorming on four topics: 1) how this religion should look like, 2) how the gods should act, 3) which relation they should have to their people, or 4) how they interact with themselves.  I've discussed a little of all four topics below, but emphasized the topic of how the gods interact among themselves.

In my opinion, there are many ways that are immediately obvious.  The first dynamic is based on the fact that the Ice Tribes "think that the world is ruled by 15 gods, who actually have the form of the element they represent".   You could therefore base their interactions on the elements and is typically seen as opposing elements, so the 'water-based' (i.e. Chelinor (snow), Reanor (rain), Pargis (ice), Heterniz (water))gods would all have friendly relations with one another, and be on bad terms with Peierojon (fire) and possibly Weabor (wind) and Ertemmir (the earth).  However, this seems a little bit overdone, and something that we see in so many other fantasy religions.  As well, I get the feeling that these 15 gods are equals, with the exception of Phoblit (the male day god) and Nechya (the female night goddess)

One twist that could be applied to this would be to have all the water-based gods vying for "control" over their element, with Hetermiz as an 'arbitrator' of disputes among these gods.

Here's another possibility that I like a little more:  The section on Holidays, Festivals and Observances states that 'the Icemen have many holidays that are connected with the change of seasons.'  Perhaps the gods that represent the weather at certain times of the year could be friendly with one another.  So, for example, Chelinor (snow), Pargis (ice), and maybe Zundefor (the land animal spirit, in the form of the great white bear), are allies, or perhaps are worshipped moreso during the winter months.  Reanor (rain), Ertemmir (earth) - both for crops - and maybe Heterniz (water) and Aleshnir (the sea animal spirit, maybe because whaling is easier in the spring when the ice breaks up - not sure).   Peierojon (fire), Brender (thunder), and Asterlin (lightning) may be prayed to more during the summer months, and the fall might be reserved for Weabor (wind) and Asendin (sea).  I'm struggling to see where death fits in - possibly he is tied to the end of the warm summer months, or is neutral toward all the other gods.

Nechya (the female night goddess) might be friendly to the winter gods, as this is when the nights are longer, while Phoblit (the male day god) could be allied with the summer gods, when days are longest.

Cheers!

Trel.
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« Reply #9 on: 22 August 2007, 13:04:48 »

Quote
You could therefore base their interactions on the elements and is typically seen as opposing elements, so the 'water-based' (i.e. Chelinor (snow), Reanor (rain), Pargis (ice), Heterniz (water))gods would all have friendly relations with one another, and be on bad terms with Peierojon (fire) and possibly Weabor (wind) and Ertemmir (the earth).  However, this seems a little bit overdone, and something that we see in so many other fantasy religions.

I agree with you on this, Trel.  Is very reminiscent even of the 12 gods, where there are 3 gods each of the 4 elements.  I'm hoping we can go in a new direction with this. 

To be quite honest, the names of the gods do not give me a full idea which are male or female in nature.  But, I was hoping to find a way to make the two main seasons, Summer and Winter, the result of a love triangle between the gods, where the one god in the center, must spend half the year with one love (winter) and the other half with the other (summer).  But, I have not yet read every myth and formed the sexes yet, so this might not be possible.

Quote
Nechya (the female night goddess) might be friendly to the winter gods, as this is when the nights are longer, while Phoblit (the male day god) could be allied with the summer gods, when days are longest.

Also, are the days different in length in a disk world such as this?  The question actually came up just today in working on another project.
« Last Edit: 22 August 2007, 13:15:19 by Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin » Logged

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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #10 on: 22 August 2007, 17:39:04 »

Trel, thank you for your input, would be nice to have you here around as well!

Trel, Altario, and everyone else of course ;) You need to know more about the "physics" of the disk as we defined it two years ago. Please go and work yourself through the Model
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« Reply #11 on: 23 August 2007, 11:31:11 »

I hadn't thought about the physics of a disk world, but having read through the entry on the model, I see that day and night are equally long irregardless of season.  My proposal about tying the night goddess to winter and the sun god to summer was flawed in its reasoning.  Intuitively though, it makes sense to tie the sun god to summer.  Only by elimination then, could the night goddess be tied to the other major season - winter.

I like your ideas regarding the relationships between summer and winter, Altario.

Have the gods' genders' been assigned yet, Talia?  I think Altario wants to play matchmaker!   ;)   

Trel.

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« Reply #12 on: 23 August 2007, 20:33:34 »

This time I know nothing more than what the entry says, don't know if Pikel or Curgan hadsometing else in mind.

I will email Pikel again, hope he reads his mail so that we know, if he wants to be involved or not.
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« Reply #13 on: 17 September 2007, 03:50:57 »

Takor, with your permission, I would like to look over the reference entries and make a list of gods according to their gender.
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Takór Salenár
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« Reply #14 on: 17 September 2007, 04:00:24 »

Go ahead, just post what you find or just write undecided!
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