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Author Topic: 'Mechkanika' Brainstorming with :Brownies:  (Read 8140 times)
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« on: 20 June 2009, 20:03:32 »

The following thread will be a discussion with Rookie and anyone else who’s devoted to Brownies. The main aim of this thread is to brainstorm and figure out what aspects of engineering will have been shared with Mech Krath, and which ones not. Similarly, what kind of interactions this key figure will have had with the Brownies. And finally, what effect and to what extent Mechkanika will have had on the Brownie population.

So, Rookie, thanks again for taking your time and doing this with me grin

From reading up on the Brownies, and as you suggested I think it’d clearly have to be the Llaoihrr Brownies who will have had any say in this considering they are advanced enough for fabulous engineering deeds like the waterwheel and the lifts. I had a look a the Council tree entry and was fascinated by the idea of rat-powered lifts, haha. I would say that the waterwheel is a bit too simple a concept to be bothering with recording into the Mechkanika archives. On the other hand the system by which the waterwheel is interlocked with raising the older lifts in the council tree, now that’s an engineering feat worth noting. After all, the concept could be recorded and possibly attempted somewhere else on a larger scale? (This will clearly be an investigation which fails, given the size and weight ratios, but that’s the spirit, to give things a try) As you mentioned in your pm, there doesn’t seem to be much detail in the Council Tree entry about how the two actually interact, the waterwheel and the lifts. I gave it a quick brainstorm and came up with a couple of simple sketches of designs by which this could be done. If it goes through, I’ll write it up into a semi-entry and file it into Mech Krath’s research book.

Which brings me to the next point: How open to other races and tribes are Brownies? Would they allow a human to visit the Vale of the Brownies? If so I was thinking that Mech Krath could have visited the Vale for his research and possibly to promote the concept of Mechkanika. Since he obviously wouldn’t fit into the tree, he would have made some good friends (or paid some brownie workers ^^) to make detailed sketches and annotations of the mechanisms in place in these lifts. Mech Krath would then take these sketches and analyse them in depth, establishing a picture. On the other hand if he wasn’t allowed into the Vale at all either, he could have worked on his political relations with the Brownies and then eventually be allowed to send in that team from idea #1? What do you think?

Now I know you mentioned Life Magic, and how the Llaoihrr do some fantastic things with it… I’m afraid I’m an engineer at heart and as such have no clue about magic in caelereth, its something I’ve just never managed wrap my head around, haha. But tell me what you had in mind, I’m all open for possibly incorporating some of it.

Another idea I had which I wanted to put out there is related to the Brownie Bead Industry (run majorly by the Vale and Milken if I’m not mistaken). Given their small size, their craftwork would be fantastically precise and detailed, resulting in some of the best crafted spheres available out there. The concept that sparked to mind was that eventually the brownie bead industry could be commissioned to make larger scale beads/spheres which due to their smooth and detailed work could be used as pivot points in a device? Its hard to explain in words considering its only a sketch on some paper here, but imagine a cantilever arm to which you attach a load/goods and then raise it over the ball pivot, which allows you to rotate the arm on a horizontal plane to another location? Haha grin

Ehm, I think that’s the first couple of things set up from my side ^^
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« Reply #1 on: 21 June 2009, 01:59:52 »

What is Mech Krath specifically?

Are the Krath specified as the engineers? There are other tribes that would be more suited to fly the banner of mechanics in Nybelmar....
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #2 on: 21 June 2009, 03:02:09 »

What is Mech Krath specifically?

Are the Krath specified as the engineers? There are other tribes that would be more suited to fly the banner of mechanics in Nybelmar....

Angor 'Mech' Krath is an old man by now, a man who worked as a blacksmith and engineer throughout his life, gathering knowledge and experience by travelling as a 'travelling engineer' of sorts, solving problems for people of all statuses by simple mechanical means where possible.

Him and his later students and followers are by no means the people waving the flag of 'engineers'.. The tribes you mention can do that if they please. The idea I'm having Mech Krath represent is more about 'open source' and making this wonderful engineering solution more available and known about. Until now, engineers pride themselves in their achievements and feats, but lock these secrets within guilds, families, etc. Or on the other hand due to geography, engineering solutions will not reach somone else who could really use them. I'd want Mech Krath to travel and plea for audiences with different experts in the field of engineering (possibly the tribes you mention in Nybelmar ^^) and interview them along the lines of:

"World wide, we could do so much good by applying mechanical solutions you have solved here.. if only you would make these creations of yours available on a global scale.. that is what we Mechkanikans are, we are a library of engineering feats throught the world, making these magnificent solutions available to the people out there who don't have access to grand-masters of engineering such as yourself" Haha, dunno if that monologue explains what I'm trying to say, but I try ^^

So basically Mech Krath and Mechkanika stands as a compendium of engineering knowledge.. Obviously its members will be experts of their field as well ^^ But rather than bother flying a banner, they put their efforts in helping the people with their knowledge on a more global scale, and to establish and hopefully flourish inter-racial engineering knowledge relationships

Rather than rumble on and on, I will leave it at this and ask whether anything in the above paragraphs has answered your questions Decipher? Let me know what you think, ta
« Last Edit: 21 June 2009, 03:05:11 by Jonael Tomeskrift » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: 21 June 2009, 03:49:15 »

Hah! I smell a Enkyclopediac!

Edit-> On Jonael's request;

The Enkyclopedia Nybelmarnica functions as the Nybelmarian sister-organisation to the Santharian Compendium. Once started as the Grand Library of Krath, in an attempt by the Krathi empire to gather all kinds of knowledge that might further its prosperity, it became a politically indepandant force of its own over the centuries, selling knowledge and hiring experts to all to sustain its own efforts to gather as much knowledge as possible.

'Mech' Krath seems like the kind of guy they would be recruiting, especially as he, too, believes in the sharing of knowledge.
« Last Edit: 21 June 2009, 04:10:51 by Miraran Tehuriden » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: 21 June 2009, 04:42:58 »

To make it much much clearer, Mech Krath is what you would get if you mixed together Linus Torvalds, Leonardo Da Vinci and a compendiumist and dropped them in Nybelmar.
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« Reply #5 on: 21 June 2009, 04:58:07 »

Ta Miraran and Valan for the clarification. Ah I see, haha, yes it really does seem like that kind of person.

I was hoping to keep this on the Sarvonian continents though. Could possibly have Mech Krath visit the Enkyclopedia Nybelmarnica in his early days to see how such a thing is run, possibly talk to some of its skillful engineers there? Would such a thing be possible?
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« Reply #6 on: 21 June 2009, 05:17:24 »

Ah, for some reason i linked him to the empire with the same name :P Do as you see fit.

THe Enkyclopedia and the Compendium have a long-standing friendschip, with informatiopn passing back and forth on a regular basis, so yeah, a visitor from the Compendium would be a welcomed guest in one of the Enkyclopedias libraries or research centres.
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #7 on: 21 June 2009, 05:23:04 »

Ah, for some reason i linked him to the empire with the same name :P

Aye, I only just noticed the same name when you told me about the Ency.Nyb.. Sorry bout that ^^

Anyways, sorry bout the lengthly off-topic wandering.. back to Brownies!
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« Reply #8 on: 21 June 2009, 22:24:32 »

Yes, the Llaoihrr are known for their feats of strange engineering with wood.  I forgot to tell you about the Brownie Wings didn't I, whoops.  They're another Brownie invention that were tried out by an Avennorian inventor and just did not work on a human scale.  I guess the waterwheel-lift connections would be useful to other races as they would spark ideas for what could be done.  Perhaps they could work out something similar using metal instead of wood for some parts?  I really don't know how it could work though, so I'd love to see your ideas - I'd keep it fairly simple and trust to very good workmanship to make it all work out.  It's the Brownie way!

The Milken do have access to metal, and some of them must be able to use it as there are Brownie-sized versions of the Helcrani weapons about.  However their technology probably doesn't differ a great deal from the Helcrani tribe.

The Vale Brownies are becoming more open, they have good trade relations with the Tenthrum Dwarves and there are some Eyelians from the town of Kytta'erng who are also allowed to visit.  The best way to do it would probably be to meet with the group that goes out to trade in New Santhala and make your pitch there where they're not thinking you might be a danger to their Council Tree!  It might take a series of meetings to gain their trust, but you could get permission to come and visit if you had such a clear purpose to do so.  Also, the new knowledge you're offering them would be very persuasive to a large number of them (the elders of the Hammer'r Clan for example - the clan who deals with all the mechanical stuff) and these would probably have enough clout to gain you a visit.  This clan are more open and willing to share knowledge than some of the other ones (the Mage Clan and the Bubbler clan for example would probably not be so willing to do this) and I think you'd get what you needed.  Bring your own Milken workers, or bring goods to pay some Llaoihrr to do it.  You see the main reasons they don't allow people is because they're afraid of attack and like their privacy - he obviously has a very specific reason for coming there which will help the Brownies in the long term as well as making them more a part of Santharia which is what a lot of them want (although not all....this would cause a lot of discussions and arguments, but that's good for me).

As to life magic, it could be used by the Brownies to control how a tree or sapling grows, or maybe even to imbue the living wood with certain other properties.  Possibly this isn't that useful for the wider population, but they could pretty much make whatever shape and size of wood they wanted.  They could make the tree grow extra fast too, and be stronger or more supple etc.  But yeah, maybe that's not too useful for everyone - it wouldn't be for everyday stuff anyway as some of those spells would be very difficult and time consuming, probably only for important stuff that benefited the whole clan.

Erm, I didn't quite understand what you'd be using those spheres for but I'm positive the Brownies of Milkengrad would be happy to take your commission.  After all, they take commissions for bead designs.  They're probably a lot easier to deal with than the Llaoihrr though - they speak the language and live in a large accessible trading port!

« Last Edit: 21 June 2009, 23:26:52 by Rookie Brownbark » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: 04 August 2009, 04:31:11 »

Hiya Rookie! *tackle glomp*

Muhaha, bet you thought I'd forgotten about this one! .. Admittedly I had to lay it to rest for a bit, but the other day while standing around doing security work at the Castle I felt inspired, so I scribbled away, and here's the result of it.

To describe the event of Angor 'Mech' Krath contacting the Brownies in a non-boring way I thought I'd create some extracts from a diary he would keep. If useful, I'll later make it into an entry compatible format.. See what you think of it. There's gaps here and there, and given the short periods of time I was able to scribble it's not all that fleshed out yet. A lot of the missing information which is Brownie related, I was hoping you could help me out with?

----

Day 1
<Town>

True to the elder gnome’s word, two days later the <wood>en stances which made up the little men’s “<shop name>” was set up once more. Overflowing with all of its ingenious trinkets and fine craft, I’d seen all of this before though. Any mechkanist who wishes to be taken seriously must have some form of admiration for the Brownie’s precise and fine craftwork. There was however one item which caught my attention in particular. I remember the moment as if had been yesterday; It lay casually on the table, not noticeably separated or distinguishably announced. Yet I knew, the minute I laid eyes on it that this was something special, something different. Within me a flame arose, like the spirit of a young school lad. In this item I saw not only a trinket of awe-inspiring Mechkanika craftwork, but In an immaterial way this trinket, or more appropriately put the correct appreciation of this item could become a key into the trust and friendship of the Brownie population. With it would come access to some fabled and worldwide admired Mechkanika feats. The whole thing had to be approached correctly though…

… So I left

Was I afraid that the trinket would disappear over the course of the day? No, not at all. To the <place> commoner the trinket would look like a simple decoration, the untrained eye could not pick out the fine engravings along its edges, the typical key holes and structurally perfect build. I was certain that no man* would lay a finger on the <nickname of trinket>, as I had come to call it.


*Being a tough-bread blacksmith and crafter, I think it’d be out of character if I didn’t make Angus Mech Krath a little macho. After all I do assume that the art of Blacksmithing is still predominantly a male occupation?


Day 2
<Place>

Today, and for the next couple of days I intend to visit the Brownie’s stall. Each time, elder <name> or his son <name> greet me in a friendly manner, characteristic of Brownies**, but also of any merchant with some wit about him… Each time I browse the wares with genuine interest, but it is the <trinket> which my eager eyes wander to. Each time I spend no lonager that a regular <place> commoner would on it.


**Am I right in saying this?

After each visit I travel to the “<inn>” Tavern. A quiet place, desolate and almost forgotten by time. Just because of this though, it is the place to have quiet drink and think. Similarly the large empty tables mean that some amateur writers and artists drop in the establishment. Though I have kept my eyes open for fellow mechkanics, but have yet to meet one.

Saying that though, there was a fellow today who I suppose is worth noting down here. The young lad’s name was <name>. He first caught my attention in the little establishment because he was neither drunk or intoxicated, but feverishly working away into a fair pile of parchments. His fingers were dark with the remnants of his charcoal pencil. Regardless of his sloppy demeanour though, the lad’s drawings were clear, accurate and held an artistic simplicity which I could appreciate.

He had few fancy artistic traits: A virtue which can not often be found in artists in these times. One of the great difficulties I find myself facing is commissioning artists who will not go overboard with what they call ‘their personal style’. Mechkanika though is a craft, nay an art or precision and efficiency! Though some of our greatest achievements are considered pieces of art, in first line they are devices of successful aid and efficiency.

In our quest to spread this knowledge to aid all we can not afford to make our schemes and illustrations ambiguous and confusing with wishy washy arty thin pictu stuff.

And so I note the young lad’s name: <name>

Back to the actual reason I found myself here though: After each visit to the Brownie stalls, after each glimpse of this fascinating trinket I found myself here, scheming out plans from observation, plans, guesses, estimates as to how the gadget could work. Before I can engage Elder <name> in conversation about the <trinket> I need to have a clear understanding of how it works, after all I wish to gain their trust and prove to them my expertise in Mechkanika and crafting. Other than through their trust I do not see another way of gaining access to the Vale of the Brownies, with my proposal to promote a global Library of Mechkanican  knowledge  & expertise.

Day 4

With every sketch I make I feel I am coming closer to solving this intricate trinket. However time is running short, in two days the Brownies will be leaving <town> to resupply in the Vale. All this point I fear I could loose the trinket and the opportunity attached to it…

Eufeka!

Day 8

Ah, I cannot describe in writing the joy I feel inside. It’s as if the sun inside. It’s as if the sun itself were in me, radiating warmth with every pulse of my heart.

As planned, I approached the Brownie stall on the <town> market once more. This time though, I struck conversation. We are on a first name basis by now. This time though the trinket was our focus and I can only describe <elder brownie>’s expression as ‘joyfully bedazzled’ about my knowledge about the trinket. Recognising my knowledge as skill, they posed no objection when I cunningly steered the conversation to mirror my desires to investigate and record Brownie achievements. Indirectly I asked <name> and <name> to request an audience and visit to the Vale of the Brownies, to which they agreed freely. I now remain in <town>, yearning for their return.

Having become quite acquainted to <name> and his son <name> I can say that they perceived and truly appreciated the spirit of the concept of Mechkanika, I only hope the Vale and their elders think the same way…  
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« Reply #10 on: 04 August 2009, 09:50:14 »

*cough* Singspeakers *cough*
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« Reply #11 on: 11 August 2009, 21:21:50 »

But aren't the Singspeakers supposed to be fairly secret Judy?  Why would the Brownies be freely selling them if that were the case?  Or have I got the wrong end of the stick and is it just the way they work that's a secret?

I love the way you write this Jonael, it's definitely very easy to read and to want to keep reading :).  If you're looking to trade with Llaoihrr then you're best bet is New Santhala.  That's the closest big city to the Vale and they head there to trade with a variety of tribes and races.  This will help you because the Brownies there are going to be the ones who are most open to change, most fluent in Tharian and most used to dealing with different people - in short, the most likely to accept you and your idea. 

However, I doubt that they'd be running a stall of their own for several reasons.  Firstly, there are the practical considerations - in a busy market place full of pushing and shoving "Bigger People", it would be so easy to get stepped on.  Plus how do they run the stall?  Normal coins are heavy and hard for them to deal with, they wouldn't be able to stop people stealing stuff, and they would probably have difficulty being heard over the crowd.  I think they'd be more likely to deal with specific merchants, in the back room of a tavern or even a private house or a gnome's laboratory?  Somewhere quiet and peaceful, and someone who is willing to pay them in gems or items they can carry back - cloth maybe.  These merchants would then sell on the goods, possibly at market stalls like the one Krath visits.  I'm sure with a little bribery or sweet-talking, the merchant could be persuaded to introduce Krath to the Brownies. 

Also, they would be wary of new, unfamiliar people at first.  They've all been brought up with stories of how Keekoo (a Brownie legend and hero) saved their race from the humans who were keeping them as pets and eating them.  Something that ingrained into your childhood is hard to get rid of, even if they trade with humans on a fairly regular basis now.   But they're intelligent and opportunistic too and some of them would soon see the merits of your idea.  On the other hand I doubt they would be able to say there and then if you would be granted a visit - that's for the Council to decide.

I have a favour to ask too - Brownies don't distinguish between male and female tasks, they split themselves into Clans instead.  Could you mention a female Brownie as well as a male one, and maybe drop the name of a clan into it too?  It would help me to keep up the image of them I'm trying to portray.  The Bartering Clan (or "Babblers") specialise in all the skills needed for trading - so languages, knowing about money, knowing the value of stuff etc.  Most of the trading group would be them, but you'd probably get at least one Hamm'rer too (they specialise in working wood) and they'd be the most interested in your idea I reckon.

Apart from the Singspeaker, things you might be interested in are perhaps some mechanical children's toys?  Really well carved with some moving parts that could catch your eye?  That's the only thing I can think of that would be small enough to be carried by a big goose, but might have the moving parts that would hint at the technology they have.
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #12 on: 22 August 2009, 20:53:22 »

So I'm making the appropriate modifications to the original word doc just now, and as soon as it's propperly adjusted I'll post it up again for you to have a look throguh again Rookie grin

Some other pointers I addressed:

Quote
Something that ingrained into your childhood is hard to get rid of, even if they trade with humans on a fairly regular basis now.

What do you reckon, does Day1/Paragraph3 account sufficiently for that, or does it not yet cover their prejudice?

MOD: Day1, Paragraph 3

Gaining the trust of the Brownies is paramount to this cause I tell you! While being at the shop I have experienced many a man be rejected and wordlessly black-listed. Though their representative, good old mister _____, never shows an expression… as any professional merchant would… if you keep an eye on the Brownies on the shelf behind him, they can be seen plotting. Their little faces contort to ugly little wrinkled grimaces*, and though they resort to ________** the name Keekoo keeps on popping up… I remember the name from my research on Brownies. Any and every research tome written about them for humans contains the name of the Brownie Hero Keekoo as a word of warning about the natural mistrust every Brownie has for humans.

Considering the tale is about the little lad saving the Brownies from being owned as pets, it isn’t difficult to gather what the little angry fellas in the back were arguing about. This delicate situation, I gathered, could be avoided by showing a professional knowledge and respect for engineering. The whole thing had to be approached correctly…


*Is that too much emotion for a Brownie?
** Brownie language?


Quote
On the other hand I doubt they would be able to say there and then if you would be granted a visit - that's for the Council to decide.”

Aye, that’s why Mech Krath remains in New Santhala for a couple of days, eagerly awaiting the return of the Brownies from the Vale. I’ll make that a paragraph in ~Day 9.


Brownie 1: Male, of the Babblers Clan (specialised in trade)

Brownie 2: Female, of the Babblers Clan (specialised in trade)

Brownie 3: Male, from the Hamm’rer Clan (specialised in woodwork).


This is just a wee skeleton I use when writing about them later, but could I ask you to give these three Brownies names? (and personalities if you feel inspired to)

Quote
However, I doubt that they'd be running a stall of their own for several reasons.

I’m working on that one. grin came up with a brilliant idea… will have it posted up as soon as I get the chance to.
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Irid alMenie
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« Reply #13 on: 23 August 2009, 21:28:02 »



** Brownie language?





Browniin ;)
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Jonael Tomeskrift
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« Reply #14 on: 24 August 2009, 02:02:09 »

Browniin ;)

Cheers Irid ^^ btw, your input as a brownie friend is abviously appreciated at all time too
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