Song of the Paélrhem

Rayne (Alýr)

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Song of the Paélrhem

« on: 31 January 2010, 10:43:45 »

Due to the lengthy discussions that followed from my last styrásh poem for an entry, I thought it best to post this in a different thread (in order to avoid giving Coren a heart attack). Hopefully I’m getting better at this. Falethas, maybe you can check and make sure my nouns are declined right and my verbs are all conjugated correctly?

Side note: The poem sounded so much better before I translated it from Styrásh into Tharian. buck

New Vocabulary
dorán (v.) “to beat (as in a drum)”
cásh (m.) “wave”
kelshár (f.) “cliff”
ýn (p.) “as”
welán (v.) “to shift”
bavmár (f.) “tide”
vaéy (m.) “cycle”
peldrán (v.) “to move (trans.)”
avaéf (f.) “oneness; quality or condition of being one”
katréy (m.) “storm”
katrán (f.) “to storm”
nareuá (f.) “becoming”
dól (m.) “drop”
quóc (m.) “distinct/discreet”
sharél (f.) “moment”
dré (adv.) “then”
zilshán (v.) “to merge”
keréth (adj.) “vast”

Poem - Sae’llán fá só Paelrhemí
1. Doranté foár sóh galnósiám sóh cashín.
2. Sá sae’llán fá sá kelshár.
3. Ae’llát ýn avaí chán (sá) karáthím.
4. Xeuát iuaím sá sae’llán.

5. Welanté foár ám jhé sáh bavmaría.
6. Só vaéy fá só thyroní.
7. Peldrát foár sá avaéfthím fá sá Valanajíam.
8. Xeuát iuaím só vaéy.

9. Katranté sóh herinín ám sóh ypheroía.
10. Sá nareuá fá sá aseiaí.
11. Mehát chánthím foár sá turquaní.
12. Xeuát iuaím sá nareuá.

13. Chuhanté á sóh avashí sáh alyría.
14. chàn só dolím fá sá marí.
15. Styrán quocím í sá sharelí,
16. (Dré) zelshanté foár só keréth thyroní iuí.

Translation - Song of the Paélrhem
1. The waves beat on the rocks.
2. The song of the cliffs.
3. Playing (like music) all time as one.
4. The song connects us.

5. The tides shift in and out
6. The cycle of the sea.
7. Moving in oneness of the Dream.
8. The cycle connects us.

9. The clouds and skies storm.
10. The becoming of heaven.
11. Changing all in the turning.
12. The becoming connects us.

13. The rains fall through the winds
14. We are all drops of the water.
15. We are distinct for a moment.
16. (Then) we merge into the vast ocean.

Questions
1. In all the stanzas, I left a subject out of the third line, because I felt it was implied. Does this work?
2. I’m not entirely sure I can use the verb Ae’llát (ln. 3) in the way I’ve used it. Opinions/suggestions?
3. Do I need an article for “time” (ln 3)?
4. I don’t know if I need to add anything to the ‘propositions’ in ln. 5 to use them the way I am.
5. Does “all” need an article if I’m using it as a noun (ln 11)?
6. I’m not sure where the “then” would go in the last line (ln. 16).


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Falethas Whisperwind

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Re: Song of the Paélrhem

« Reply #1 on: 01 February 2010, 00:22:28 »

RAYNE. You are my muse. Those new words are beautiful.

I’ll edit this post later with my translation.

Alrighty then, here we go:

POEM (ANALYSIS & TRANSLATION)

“Song of the Paélrhem”
Sae’llán só Páel’rhim-ís
[song the Páel’rhím*-gen.]

*The form Paélrhem is Nybelmarian Styrásh. The rest of the song is in Sarvonian Styrásh, so I’m assuming this is a translation those elves have made from the original. If that’s the case, they’d have converted the tribe’s name to its Sarvonian form of Páel’rhím.

“The waves beat on the rocks:”
Dor-anté só-h galnos-ían só-h cash-ín:
[beat*-they the-pl. rock-acc.pl. the-pl. wave-pl.:]

*“Beat on” is sort of an English-ism. That little idiomatic verbal phrase would be expressed solely by dorán; you wouldn’t need to say dorán foár.

“The song of the cliffs”
Sá sae’llán sá-h kelsha-rías
[the song the-pl. cliff-gen.pl.]

“Playing all time as one.”
Ae’ll-í ýn avá chan’kara-thím.
[play-pres.part. as one all’time-acc.]

“The song connects us.”
Xeu-át uím sá sae’llán.
[connect-3sg us* the song.]

*Go ahead and use uím for “us” wherever it’s needed. That’s the form I’ve been toying around with. Still a little tentative, but it should work for now; it can go in the Ava’reollár verse as well.

“The tides shift in and out:”
Wel-anté foár ám jhé sá-h bavmar-ía:
[shift-they in and out the-pl. tide-pl.:]

“The cycle of the sea”
Só vaéy só thyron-ís.
[the cycle the sea-gen.]

“Moving in oneness of the Dream.”
Al-í foár avaéf sá Valanaj-ís.
[move*-pres.part. in oneness the Dream-gen.]

*We can keep peldrán as a word, but I don’t think Styrásh differentiates lexically between transitivity and intransitivity. That is to say, it doesn’t have separate words for the transitive and intransitive forms of the same action. In any case, “move” isn’t a transitive verb here; there’s no object.

“The cycle connects us.”
Xeu-át uím só vaéy.
[connect-3sg us the cycle.]

“The clouds and skies storm.”
Katr-anté só-h herin-ín ám sá-h yphero-ía.
[storm-they the-pl. cloud-pl. and the-pl. sky-pl.]

“The becoming of heaven”
Sá áseia’nareuá
[the heaven’becoming*]

*I’ve opted to compound these two, as they seem to express a single idea of “heaven-becoming” (the elves compound like this quite frequently when two words express a unitary philosophical or poetic idea; cf. “vast ocean,” line 16). If you really feel they must be kept separate, “the becoming of heaven” translates as sá nareuá aseiaís.

“Changing all in the turning.”
Meh-í chan-thím foár sá terquán.
[change-pres.part. all-acc. in the turning.]

“The becoming connects us.”
Xeu-át uím sá nareuá.
[connect-3sg us the becoming.]

“The rains fall through the winds.”
Chuh-anté á só-h avash-ín sá-h alyr-ía.
[fall-they through the-pl. wind-pl. the-pl. rain-pl.]

“We are all drops of the water.”
Styr-áns chán dol-ín sá mar-ís.
[be-we all drop-pl. the water-gen.]

“We are distinct for a moment,”
Styr-áns quóc í án sharél,
[be-we distinct for a moment,]

“Then we merge into the vast ocean.”
Dré zilsh-áns és só kéreth’thyrón.
[Then merge-we into* the vast’ocean.]

*It’s not in the dictionaries for some reason, but on the Principles page, an example sentence provides és as meaning “into.”

POEM (COMPLETED)

Sae’llán só Páel’rhimís

Doranté sóh galnosían sóh cashín:
Sá sae’llán sáh kelsharías
Ae’llí ýn avá chan’karathím.
Xeuát uím sá sae’llán.

Welanté foár ám jhé sáh bavmaría:
Só vaéy só thyronís.
Alí foár avaéf sá Valanajís.
Xeuát uím só vaéy.

Katranté sóh herinín ám sáh ypheroía.
Sá áseia’nareuá
Mehí chanthím foár sá terquán.
Xeuát uím sá nareuá.

Chuhanté á sóh avashín sáh alyría.
Styráns chán dolín sá marís.
Styráns quóc í án sharél,
Dré zilsháns és só kéreth’thyrón.

QUESTIONS

1. You don’t need a subject to begin with; the verbs in those lines are in their participial forms, and so their subjects are in the lines immediately preceding them.

2. I think it’s fine. Ae’llán means “to perform music,” which is essentially synonymous with what you’ve got in the poem.

3. Nope; kará fits into a compound there (“all-time”).

4. They’re being used as adverbs in that context. I don’t think Styrásh is too strict about that (prepositions taking on adverbial functions, I mean), so they should be fine uninflected.

5. If the line to be translated specifically said “the time,” then yes. The line you gave doesn’t. You could say “changing the all in the turning,” sure, but that’s not what your original line was, so I didn’t insert the article.

6. Right at the beginning.


« Last Edit: 01 February 2010, 02:02:56 by Falethas Whisperwind »	Logged

Epthaeranté á sáh pheranía sáh alyría; ahmantát naithím sá sae'llán styaeyías.
"The rain whispers down through the trees; elvish music will rise in answer."

Rayne (Alýr)

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Re: Song of the Paélrhem

« Reply #2 on: 01 February 2010, 08:35:08 »

Thank you, Falethas! heart

I promise you one of these days I will get it right the first time.

I like the new word for us (uím)--it seems smaller and more succinct to me.

I'm glad I don't have to use a preposition for dorán. buck

That's a good point! ... Why is English so strange?

If I could turn this poem into Nybelmarian Styrásh, that would be preferable. How much do you know about this derivation of Styrásh? Do you think it would be possible for me to turn this into something the Paélrhem would actually sing?


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Falethas Whisperwind

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Re: Song of the Paélrhem

« Reply #3 on: 01 February 2010, 11:16:36 »

Little to nothing about Nybelmarian Styrásh has been detailed so far, unfortunately.

All I personally know is that rhem is the Nybelmarian counterpart of rhím, and that Nybelmarian elves don’t compound tribe names with apostrophes (cf. Paélrhem, Iferhém, Kaýrrhem).

I don’t think it’d be possible to translate it currently. There just isn’t enough material to work with. undecided


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Epthaeranté á sáh pheranía sáh alyría; ahmantát naithím sá sae'llán styaeyías.
"The rain whispers down through the trees; elvish music will rise in answer."

Rayne (Alýr)

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Re: Song of the Paélrhem

« Reply #4 on: 04 February 2010, 04:10:34 »

Based on my analysis of a few cases of Nybelmarian Styrásh (Coór’hém, Iferhém, Kaýr, Yvan), I’ve tried to brainstorm some basic principles for how Nybelmarian Styrásh differs from Santharian Styrásh. So here we go:

1. Second consonants dropped when consonant is repeated (Iferrhem to Iferhem; Coorrhem to Coor’hem)
2. E --> I in word initial position (Eferrhem to Iferhem)
3. I --> Ý, shifting accents? (Kái - Kaý)
4. A --> Y when not accented (Avá to Yva[n])
-----When two unaccented “a”s fall in a word, only the first is converted to a “y.”
-----The a is converted to a y before declination/conjugation; the accent shifts AFTER a word has been declined/conjugated do not follow these rules. [Should this be applied within declinations? i.e. plural 3rd person "anté" into "ynté"?]
5. Nouns that end in the open vowel “a” or “á” become “an.” (Avá to [Y]van) [Unfortunately, this changes plural feminine nominative into plural masculine accusative. How do we fix this?]

That being the case, this (I think) is how the poem would change:
Doranté sóh gylnosían sóh cyshín:
Sá sye’llán sáh kelsharías
Ye’llí ýn yván chan’kyrathím.
Xeuát uím sá sye’llán.

Welynté foár ám jhé sáh byvmarían:
Só vyéy só thyronís.
Ylí foár yvaéf sá Vylanajís.
Xeuát uím só vyéy.

Kytranté sóh herinín ám sáh ypheroían.
Sá aseýa’nyreuán
Mehí chanthím foár sá terquán.
Xeuát uím sá nyreuán.

Chuhanté á sóh avashín sáh ylyrían.
Styráns chán dolín sá marís.
Styráns quóc í án sharél,
Dré zylsháns és só kéreth’thyrón.

Outstanding Issues:
vyéy looks weird to me.
ylyrían looks weird to me.
The i to y in zylsháns isn’t accented because of the declination.
a --> an turns plural feminine nominative into plural masculine accusative. How do we fix this?

EDIT

OK, thinking about this more, I think we can make some edits. Instead of focusing on position, I want to focus more on accent, and instead of general rules concerning the addition of the n, I think the rule would be better applied pre-declination. Therefore:

1. Second consonants dropped when consonant is repeated; may or may not be accompanied by an apostrophe. (Iferrhem to Iferhem; Coorrhem to Coor’hem)
2. E --> I (Eferrhem to Iferhem)
3. I --> Ý [shifted accent] (Kái - Kaý)
4. A --> Y (Avá to Yva[n])
-----When two unaccented “a”s fall in a word, only the first is converted to a “y.”
-----The a is converted to a y before declination/conjugation; the accent shifts AFTER a word has been declined/conjugated do not follow these rules. [Should this be applied within declinations? i.e. plural 3rd person "anté" into "ynté"?]
5. Nouns that end in the open vowel “a” or “á” become “an” (Avá to [Y]van) BEFORE declination.

New version:
Doranté sóh gylnosían sóh cyshín:
Sá syi’llán sáh kilsharías
Yi’llí ýn yván chan’kyrathím.
Xiuát uím sá sye’llán.

Wilynté foár ám jhé sáh byvmaría:
Só vyéy só thyronís.
Ylí foár yvaéf sá Vylanajís.
Xiuát uím só vyéy.

Kytranté sóh herinín ám sáh ypheroía.
Sá asiýa’nyriuán
Mehí chanthím foár sá tirquán.
Xiuát uím sá nyriuán.

Chuhanté á sóh avashín sáh ylyrían.
Styráns chán dolín sá marís.
Styráns quóc í án sharél,
Dré zylsháns és só kérith’thyrón.

New issues:
1. How is “y” pronounced different from “i”? There are quite a few “yi”s and “iy”s now.
2. Will the accent-dependent changes occur before or after the accents shift in a noun compound?

EDIT2: Ah the more I think over this, the more confounded I become. Chuhát foár iuís oriní só melór. Save me, Falethas...!


« Last Edit: 04 February 2010, 14:10:53 by Rayne (Alýr) »	Logged

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