Santharian Development

All right, I think it’s about time we tried to start up discussion on Ximax Academy. Not a lot was discussed in the last discussion topic, but I’ll try to summarize what was agreed on in that and previous discussions. First, we have our list of towers:

The Tower of Xeua
The Tower of Ecua
The Tower of Wind
The Tower of Fire
The Tower of Water
The Tower of Earth
The Tower of Arithmancy and Alchemy
The Tower of Myth and Lore
The Tower of Tomes
The Tower of Foreign Culture
The Tower of History
The Tower of Records
The Tower of Dangerous Beasts
The Tower of Dangerous Experiments
The Tower of Health
The Tower of Passage (Official name)/ Old Guard Tower(called by teacher)/ Tower of Judgment (As called by students)
The Garden House
The Grand Dining Hall
The Guest House
Storage and Stables
House of Fine Arts
Physical Education
Recreation Area for Music and Arts
Recreation Area for Physical Education
The Club House (was the Herb and Plant Garden)
Ornamental Garden and Academy Gates

We need to decide on the shape and style of Ximax Architecture: Should it be different? Should it be uniform? If we want the towers to be different, we need to make sure we take into consideration the internal layout.

As for that, I suggested having the first floor be the lounge room: a place for students to hangout and such. Perhaps the second floor might be the tower library. From there, The next few floors will make up classrooms and labs. Perhaps even a storage floor. Then, we can have the dorms. The first few levels will be level 1 mages; the next floor, level two; the next, level three; etc, etc. And this will proceed up through the teachers, separated by levels varying between 7 and 10. Then the Archmage will have a tower at the very top.

Also, what materials will be used? In the previous discussion, we seemed to agree on marble, but that is opt to changed based on what we decide of the style. We also need to take the colors of each tower into consideration.

Our current tower colors are as follows:
Wind: Gray, Purple, Indigo
Water: Blue, Aqua, Turquoise
Fire: Red, Orange, Gold
Earth: Yellow, Green, Brown
Xeuá: White
Ecuá: Black

We’ll also need to decide on the shape and style of the outer towers and houses, as well as their internal layout. Do we want these towers to be uniform or different?

Note: We have a lot of freedom in what styles we want to do, and aren’t tied to the oirigins of Ximax. Though Ximax was originally built by a human, we can add elven qualities to the towers, or even dwarvish ones. Let’s be creative here!

I think that we’ve basically decided that the population of each tower will be 400 students and teachers, while the arch-schools will have a total of around 150 students and teachers each. The size of the towers will probably be shaped by these numbers. These numbers are opt to change if necessity calls for them to. We might want to think of the population of other towers, which should be small.

Later Stuff:

We’ll probably work on these things later, but we’ll need to look closer into what the population make-up will look like racially. Ximax has long stood out as being a place of many human but mostly elven students. More and more, however, it’s coming to light that many elven forests contain schools as well, and many of the elves that would go to Ximax are going to these closer schools.

We’ll need to decide whether or not Ximax will be government-funded, and how the satellite schools will function.

Eventually, deciding what kind of classes will be taught here will be something of an issue. Start thinking about those classes now and how they will be coordinated. We’ll also need to come up with some sort of schedule.

Last but not least, we’ll need to figure out the history of Ximax: Not just when the towers were erected, but when the rest of the school came into being. Even when it really bacame a school.


Now, I hope everyone's refreshed. Shall we get to it?

Umm...As for the way the towers look... I think that they should all be architectured a little differently... but not so much that they all look look 100% different. The towers should be element specific besides color in someway. Maybe the fire tower could generate heat and light, or the wind tower have stones from floating aroound it. Simple things that set the towers apart, without having four completely different towers.

As for the inner layout... I think what you have is fine, but I think the Higher level mages should be below the lower level mages... That is of course, if the Archmage oversees the school... But from what I've seen (Or think I have) no one ever sees the ArchMages...

And something I haven't seen mentioned... The campus outside of the towers. Are there trees? Maybe there is a forest in Ximax? I think it would be necessary for mages to have such resources available.

Umm... thats all...  

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If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
 
Henry David     Thoreau

How are we going to have all the buildings look, though? I would like to keep the shape somewhat similar so that we are still able to have the same interior layout, but it would be nice to have something different.

Each of the towers tends to appeal to a certain race. Perhaps the wind tower might be inscribed with elvish runes, or something to that nature? Perhaps the Earth tower might have dwarvish symbols?

I still think that the higher levels should be above the lower ones. This sllows things to be more even. If we have the higher levels lower in the tower, then all of the high levels (7, 8, 9, and 10) would all need to be on the same level, instead of each having their own floor.

Some trees might be nice, but a forest would probably end up being something of a hindrance given that there are going to be a lot of people commuting to different towers. In some cases, emergencies may require a quick rush to the hospital tower. Having to mnage thrugh all those trees will probably end up doing some harm. Keep in mind that we do have a Garden House.

I agree on the higher levels being higher in the tower.

Why not have the base of each tower identical: A large structure built of stone.  As the tower rises higher (and as the students become stronger with their element, higher level students being at higher levels of the tower) the tower will take on more and more of that element's attributes.  I am picturing the air tower starting with stone at the bottom, slowly melding into a glass structure, and the top floors will simply be currents of air which the archmage creates.  
The fire building might be normal stone, then volcanic rock, and at the very top, flowing magma with flames leaping from it.  
For earth, I doubt the tower would go very high.  Perhaps just have the earth tower be a mound of dirt and a huge network of underground caves.  Most earth mages are dwarven anyway.
Water would start with stone once more, and slowly the stone would become ice, and at the very top, liquid water.
I picture the tops of Xeua and Ecua as dust storms.  Material would constantly be breaking up and gathering together, causing them to be shrouded in the resulting air and dust currents.

It makes sense really, the higher levels have higher level mages with stronger magic.

Well, if you want to go with a unique look for each tower, I think Xarl's ideas were pretty good.  
Basically,
Wind: Yellow cone with doughnut-shaped rings cut out (not sure what this mean, but I get some really odd images from this)
Water: Upside-down icicle
Fire: Twin-towers spiralling around each other, meeting at a large ruby at the top
Earth: Miniature mountain (extends underground as well)

About the only thing I'd change is the appearance of the tower of wind.  I think it'd be interesting if the tower is invisible, or perhaps only a shimmering outline of the tower is visible.  I also get the feeling it might be nice to place the tower of water in the middle of some sort of miniature lake, but I can't seem to figure out how that will fit.  I suppose the outer towers (those having nothing to do with teaching magic) will have a uniform appearance?  

I agree about not having too many trees outside the Garden House.  Some trees would be nice, as Rayne said, but having an entire forest will be a little troublesome.  Besides, it'd be a little redundant, since the Garden House will, I think, pretty much have an indoor forest.  Well, mini-forest anyway.  And perhaps jungle, and desert, and maybe even something like a Zen garden.  There should be enough space for all that, since it pretty much takes up the entire length of one side of the inner wall.  

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Edited by: Mina Aylwin at: 4/13/04 18:57

Water towers?  Why worry about those when you have the most potent group of water mages in santharia (presumably).

Why not just have a waterfall flowing down the water tower.  It would look beautiful if the entire tower was constantly covered in a torrent of running water, it would provide security, and it would provide more then enough water to keep an entire city watered, let alone the acadamy.  

That could work well.  And the tower would look really cool..

you mean like having an endless source of ice melting at the very top of the tower, and creating a waterfall as it falls?

Do we need to have a tower shaped like an upside down icicle? Why not have some sort of palm like (hand) thing or an open flower (something related to water? some special sort of a water lily perhaps) with the water surging up from the middle? Then perhaps instead of having a normal waterfall, the water coming out from this source could spiral around the building (so the water doesn't block all the windows and gas exchange etc)?

Fire: Maybe the ruby could always look as if it's about to explode (very red, glowing, hot etc)?

Earth: maybe (after a certain floor) the material / mud keeps molding and changing shape and type periodically? (perhaps this could serve as a Ximax clock tower? noon, bright sun, hot >> clay, dawn >> white marble, just making these up. Probably someone could come up with periods)

oooh, it could be an avalange.  THe water magic is so strong at the top that the water is ice, then it melts as you go further down and the magic becomes weaker.

When it comes to the water tower, I personally like the idea of having an endless streamof water coming up from the top and rippling down to perhaps a small mote serroundings the structure. From this mote, water can be pulled back up to the top. Basically, it's the same amount of water flowing continuously through the structure.

Ice is cold. Magma is hot. Let's be sure we keep all this in mind, all right? If we're going to have a building with magma floating down the sides, then we're going to have some very crispy students.Also remember that anythng too extreme (like duststorms, churning magma, whirlwinds) will have to be maintained. Spells don't just cast themselves.

So, let's keep in mind:
1. Practicality of design: maintaining some of these things might be a bit difficult.
2. Practicality of function: This is a school. It's main purpose is to teach, not to look pretty. Let's not loose focus!

But it can look pretty on the side!!

M'hmm

I like the waterfall suggestion too.  It certainly fits very well.  As for the moat, perhaps make it look more natural, sort of like a miniature lake.  I think that'd look pretty nice.  

So, what does everyone think about my invisible tower idea?  

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I think that it might perhaps be better if the tower could be seen. The Wind tower is an important tower, after all. Not being able to see it would come as a hindrance. Plus it would confuse a LOT of students.

Well, I did mention that perhaps a shimmering outline of the tower could be visible.  Looks better than a levitating tower or a tower with sections cut out of it, I think.  Perhaps the main entrance could be visible, so the students don't get too confused.  

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Yes, you mentioned that, but I think it would still lead to confusion. I would suggest it be seen. Having a random door to what would appear to be nothing at all would still seem a bit confusing. I might even prefer a floating tower, though that might be difficult to pull off.

or only the stone base could be visable o.-

M'hmm

If we decide to have a stone base...

Touche, salesman.... touche

This discussion looks a little dead....

So, does anyone have any more suggestions for the appearance of the inner towers, or should we discuss something else first?  

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IMHO, uniform towers, you know, not too fancy. Decorated with colors, thats fine. Ximax I recall isn't just a school, but also a fortress to shield the Orb from the people and the people from the Orb.

Who suggested having magma flowing down the tower? offf, and i have lenses already....  

Umm the outer towers first... Again this slipped into nothingness, which defeats the purpose...

If the outer towers are all fancy looking, as some have suggested, they nood to have a function. I doubt the school would've been built too look fancy rather than to be a proper institution of learning magic. The water tower providing the rest of the school with water is a good Idea, but that implies that running water (plumbing) is used. And don't try the "IT'S MAGIC" argument. Rayne already said that t would be a high maintenance job. The school would have to hire mages to do such things.

If insisted upon, the students can mantain this system, but a reasonable function for th other towers is needed. Remember, magic CAN'T do everything.

I propose that the towers each be made of white marble, streaked with the previously proposed colors.

The inside of the towers, however, should be customized for the type of magi residing inside. I don't have any great ideas right now but I have a few that are either ridiculous, or contradict what I said earlier... Sorry but thats how I am... you can;t change it.

All of the towers should have a unique transportation device; after all they are prettyy big, and higher level mages will have difficulty getting all the way down to the classrooms.

Maybe just a teleportation spell for the win tower.
A fountain "elevator" in the water tower
Fire...
A... something for the earth tower...

I went blank *sighs*  

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If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
 
Henry David     Thoreau

Some of the appearances might be able to be made through enchantments. Transportation spells are really high level, and no higher mage has time to transport students and teachers wherever they need to go.

I would rather the structures be uniform in the general shape, but I think things like water flowing down the side of the watrer tower would be a nice touch. They should still retain some individuality.

Well what about wards ::checks the dictionary:: sorry, they don't exist...

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If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
 
Henry David     Thoreau

Hey, a new Ximax discussion started while I was away!

My first question: Do we stick still to the hexagons I proposed some time ago? Then I would do a new layout without numbers yet, and I would need your ok to the fact, that the base of each tower is the same, but that the inner towers are much higher (that simplifies the layout).

This time I know by now, how to do layers, so the naming or renaming is easy .

I would propose to concentrate on the outer layout first and finish it off and then go to the interior - though of course some issues have to be in the back of the head while writing it.

To the outside:

I assume now, that the inner towers were build first, the outer towers later .

I think, it would be nice, if the towers would be generally uniform, outer and inner, especially the outer ones, because this fortification was build at the same time (it reduces the costs to do the same design, keep that in mind).
I would like to see the inner towers based on this hexagon as well, but in a way, that it is just the ground itself, which belongs to this tower, the building itself could be different.

An idea to simplify the look: Let be the inner towers be built all the same, out of marble if you like, (similar in the interior as well), and then let the residing mages do illusions (I assume, they are not to hard to do??? Just read Leguin‘s earthsee books again, so I might be wrong). Then the water tower can have its waterfall and the firetower its magma look, the windtower can vanish from time to time - at least partly. If something goes wrong, the towers appear in their original form. We could adopt Xarl‘s ideas - where the entrance to this drop tower is has to be clarified then - but it could just be a (partly hidden) point/gate at the base somewhere? Which leads you in the interior. I would really love to see the rule applied here as well which says, that we should rework around older ideas where possible instead of doing entirely new things, respect the old ideas  if possible.

No such fancy things at the outer towers, just a hexagonal plain layout, building material white (?) granite, marble is too expensive (should be). That does not mean, that there could be stony ornaments(different ones, matching the purpose of the tower), but the description could be done extra, in a new entry. Lets do now just the main features, all towers have in common. Just the garden-house tract may be different with it‘s glass structures.

No need to think now about , where are trees or even a small lake in the green areas. There will be probably a few trees, even a small grove in the recreation area or the garden/healing plant area, but the description can be postponed and added later, with more detail and love done than we can afford now.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

This thread has fallen too far...

Well, that sounds like a good idea.  But how about making slight variations to the same basic tower design, instead of relying entirely on illusions?  Illusions will have to be sustained, so having some of the differences being in the structure of the towers themselves would make it easier to sustain, I think.  On the other hand, is it possible to make the illusions permanent, and thus not require any sustaining, through Xeuá magic?  

The outer towers, I agree, should have a rather uniform design.  There's not much point giving each of them a unique design, and they don't really have much to do with the study of magic anyway.  

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Thats coz there's not much to discuss

I do not believe that even Xeua magic could make a perminant illusion.  It would have to be refreshed periodically, and how many Xeua mages would really care about outward appearances enough to cast illusions on the school when they should be meditating on magic.

Time to come to come conclusions, here are the options that I see

Outter towers: all symmetrical, perhaps some gardens or a grove of trees near the healing tower etc.

Do we all agree on that?  I haven't heard otherwise in the thread, and it would be a leap forward if we had that okayed.


Inner towers: Three options I see here.  

-Six identical towers either indistinguishable, or distinguishable only by the trim (each element with their respective color.

-Six identical tower bases, then as the tower gets higher, the element will take effect (partially dissappearing for wind, a waterfall for water, magma flow for fire, and perhaps just a huge miniature mountain, or a paritally buried tower for earth)

-Six totally differant towers all made purely from the element (crystal or glass for wind, molten rock for fire, stone for earth, ice for water)

The third one really doesn't seem to popular, and the first one is just boring.  I vote we have six identical marble bases for the six elemental towers.  Six identical towers underneath it all, but the evidence of each element surrounding the tower.

Dear Beth.....

There is no discussion about "believe"Kik, if the master mages here who are competent about the working of Xeua say, it is possible, it will work if not - it is not. And my question was - how difficult is it to keep an illusion. Perhaps it needs only a few adepts to do this, and this would be the task of all three level studets or such.
I wonder , if you worked yourself through all the proposals already done a while ago?

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

How are other options suggested in this thread not possible, Kik?  Your suggestion is extremely difficult to carry out, perhaps even more so than constructing a tower entirely from it's element, since you'd need a smooth transition from normal building materials to those that better represent the elements.  As for the illusions, yes, the only problem is how hard it would be to sustain them.  If it's not too hard, it should not be too much of a problem to have the towers differentiated by illusions instead of actual structural differences.  

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Khikku ... silly

I don't think he meant entirely from the element Mina. And I agree with you on the illusions... kinda... illusions are a wind mage thing... so illusions in all the towers aren't very likely.  

Here are some points that need to knocked out... Let's try and tackle these one at a time or this will never be done... Remember, these are a collection of all of our opinions, not just mine (I was a bit biased in the selections though)

Have we agreed on Symmetrical towers? Talia's Hexagon thingy I like, and that should work well...  

The towers should be their different colors, possibly with some other distinguishing feature relating to its element.(If we do this, I still insist they should be functional features, not to make things look pretty... yech!)...

The inside of the towers be totally element specific...

I still insist on some sort of groovy transportation system in each tower...

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If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
 
Henry David     Thoreau

If only wind mages do illusions, let them do for all towers - where should there be a problem?What about mages working together?

This way we could respect Xarls first description - remember, working around old entries is what we should do, not entirely skip them! It could be f.e. this drop tower in appearance and a solid structure underneath as well.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Good news!  Near-permanent illusions using Xeuá should be possible.  That should solve the problem of sustaining illusions, if we should choose to use that method.  

Quote:

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<Mina> okay rayne...basically...is it possible for xeua mages to make illusions permanent or near-permanent?

<Dreamress> I don't see why not, Mina.

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Dreamress is Rayne, BTW.  

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:-)

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Ok... thats cleared up... Whats next?

• Inner tower Appearances: Illusions sustained by Xeuá magic.

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If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
 
Henry David     Thoreau

Ok... thats cleared up... Whats next?

• Inner tower Appearances: Illusions sustained by Xeuá magic.


• Outer Tower Appearance: Undecided

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If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.
 
Henry David     Thoreau

Well, hexagones like on my layout? All similar in the ground structure, later additions and ornamentations different, representing the subject of the tower?.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Sounds good to me.  But, just going back to the inner towers for a while...what are their appearances going to be like?  Do the illusions basically give the appearance Xarl mentioned in the entry on the site, or the incomplete one in the forum, or something else entirely?  

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Err, maybe I'm too late to join in, but may I work on the non-magical buildings, such as the Garden, Stables and such? It's more in my reach than the sophisticated matters of the great magical towers. But please? May I do that? *does his puppy eyes trick and begs*

With non-magical I mean the last which were named by Avalotus, these:

The Garden House
The Grand Dining Hall
The Guest House
Storage and Stables
House of Fine Arts
Physical Education
Recreation Area for Music and Arts
Recreation Area for Physical Education
The Club House (was the Herb and Plant Garden)
Ornamental Garden and Academy Gates

P.S.: Rayne, why haven't you added me to your Hotmail account?  

Edited by: Arcuar at: 5/1/04 10:31

Well, the design of the Academy is more of a group project, so perhaps you could post your suggestions here and let us discuss them instead?  

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The Grand Dining Hall:

The Grand Dining Hall is a long room, with six tables. Each table represents an Element and Ecuá and Xeuá. Each table is colored in the colour appropriate to its Element. An interesting fact is that there is a hierarchy to who sits where, which is defined by level, and the place is defined by the tone of the table. The darker the tone, the lower the level of mages who sit there. This symbolizes how "close they are to enlightenment". So it is obvious that the teachers sit in the center, with the newest apprentices moving outward. The reason for this is the grand chandalier in the center of the tables. In the center of the Grand Dining Hall is a chandalier, with appropriate gems for each Element. The part that points to the Earth Element has emeralds in it, the part that points to the Fire Element has rubies in it, and so on. The center of the chandalier holds a quartz gem, with a candle in it. The light of the candle is reflected to all sides, and gives each Element it's own light in the respective colour. The chandalier is one of many priceless artifacts of the Academy, and is the centerpiece of the Grand Dining Hall.

Edited by: Arcuar at: 5/4/04 18:27

Arcuar, I don't want to chase you away, but have you looked at the design back then in this thread? The form of the dining hall is pretty fixed, it is a long stretched building which connects two of the outer towers. So no such things as three circles.And I doubt, that the Arch mages will eat there. We definitly should concentrate on the inner towers first AND how the outer towers look OUTSIDE.
The same is true for the garden tower and other things. I would propose however, write your ideas down - and then when we come to it, we will see, what we can use of your ideas?

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

D'oh! Sorry :(

I do like the chandalier though ^_^  

I now redid the round piece into a box-shaped. The chandalier stays, however. Thanks, Kikhku!

Actually what she ment (kik here ~.^) was not to worry about the dining hall at all, and that once we figured out what the towers looked like we could worry about the dining hall.  Remember, the towers could effect what the dining hall looks like (is there a place for water from the water tower to flow to provide the students with fresh water, etc)

Once those are discussed, I shall further improve the Grand Dining Hall. But the Grand Dining Hall is mine, 'kay? *Smeágol imitation* Nobody steals my preciousssssss! RAARGH!

Arcuar, as Mina already pointed out, this is done in a joined effort. We don't know , what we will decide when and how what will function. Maybe others had some idea about how looks the dining hall as well - and that half a year ago? Maybe it is only used for special occasions and the students eat in their respective towers?
What about doing something which is not connected with the wishes and ideas of others? Starting small is always good! And the dining hall is nothing small or unimportant. There are many who have definite ideas how what looks like - and that's not me! Maybe there is decided, that an air of equality should be the main theme? Or what about the races?Would they mix at the tables(unlikely).  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Never thought of it that way. Terribly sorry...

Just pushing up

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"