Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Magic in the Lands of Caelereth => Topic started by: Rayne (Alýr) on 28 July 2005, 20:52:00



Title: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 28 July 2005, 20:52:00
People have been asking about Shadowmancy since the Kasumarii entry was written. Most recently Takashi. So I started the entry, though, of course, I'm not entirely sure if the magic-theory works, but I think it does.

I also wanted to write it to assert my magic-expertness that I'm afraid I might be lacking in. >_<;

I haven't forgot about Weavers!

Edit: I don't know what else to add to this entry!



Shadowmancy

Overview: Shadowmancy is the magical art of manipulating shadows, and is used almost exclusively by the darkpriests of the Kasumarii tribe in Cyhalloi. Shadowmancy serves purposes both occupational and recreational, for while it may be used by assassins to hide in the shadows, it is also utilized for entertainment purposes, to act out scenes and stories for entertainment.

The Clerical Art: Shadowmancy is a clerical magic, but it does not operate in the same manner as the Santharian clerical system. In the Santharian clerical system, spells are cast often with the use of song or spoken prayers, and when a spell manifests, it is said to come from the worshipped god of the respective caster. For example, if a Nehtorian cleric casts a spell that heals an open wound, that healing was said to be done by Nehtor and not the caster himself. The cast was merely the means through which the god operated.

This is not so in the Kasumariian art of Shadowancy, where the clerical quality is more indirect than in Santharia. Darkpriests, the most skilled and knowledgeable practitioners of this art, believe that the spells come from them—that they are the ones who cause the spells to take place. However, they believe their gift and ability to cast spells comes from Korenjah, their God of Shadows. Because shadowmancers believe they are the true casters of their magic, they tend to have more control over the end result of a spell than most Santharian clerics.

Shadowmancy also differs to traditional Santharian clerical magic in that no prayers are vocalized. Instead, Shadowmancers make use of hand gestures to cast their spells and manipulate shadows. In this manner, they can retain the silence necessary for their assassinations. These hand gestures and movements tend to differ slightly from caster to caster, which implies they were, like prayers and mantras, more of an aid for focusing than as an action necessary to cast a Shadowmancer’s spell.

The casting of spells relies heavily on faith--as do all clerical spells. Most Ximaxian scholars attribute this to strong will power gained through their faith. When a shadowmancer loses her faith, often their spell-casting will suffer through a similar loss in will. In general, from what is known of the art of shadowmancy, those who have perfect faith in Korenjah tend to cast more precise, potent spells than those of little or uncertain faith.

Ximaxian Explanations: Shadowmancers are clerics, and thus they are not limited in many of the ways Ximaxian mages are by being bound almost exclusively to one element or type of magic, but can enjoy use of many different types of magic, though with less control. Although what kind of magic shadowmancy is has been debated for some time, most Ximaxian scholars have identified the Shadowmancer as a kind of Fire Mage on the basic level, and a Ecua mage on the more advanced level, though some should argue otherwise.

The explanation starts on the smallest level. Fire oun has a tendency to be attracted to other Fire oun. This is why, for instance, when the sunlight fades and night comes, it gets cold. The heat you felt from the fire oun in the surrounding area followed the sun as it went down, and thus won’t return again until morning. Similarly, when a candle is lit in a dim room, the shadows appear to get darker—the fire oun giving them light has been attracted to the candle and the candle’s rays. One reason many perceive the night to be dark even when the stars are out is because, due to their size, the stars don’t possess enough energy to push their fire oun out enough to light Caelereth. In the same way, a fire grows by attracting the fire oun in various caralls to feed itself. A shadow is merely a carall lacking in fire (or in a carall where the fire oun, no longer sharing the energy of surrounding fire oun [i.e. from the sun], have their connections move from Soor to Ahm, while the other oun links go from Ahm to Soor)

The concept of simple Shadowmancy often deals with this attraction of Fire oun to themselves. Often, the simple fire mage will be able to change these Xeua links between fire to make them Ahm (though thus far no shadowmancer has been able to change the links to Soor), echoing the type of spellcasting done in spells of the first sphere. In this manner, he create shadows in dimly-lit places, and often move these shadows to some degree, but like most spells of the third sphere, they quickly fade and the carall returns to it’s most comfortable balance. In a slightly more advanced way, a shadowmancer may separate fire oun, as is done in the second sphere, and while keeping a carall in a ahm-fire state is slightly easier, it is still considered by most darkpriest to be “novist” or just “poor shadowmancy.”

The most advanced shadowmancers have the ability not only to change the quality of the fire xeua links in a carall, but in fact “move” some fire out of the carall. This is made easier, obviously, by a source of light to which the fire oun can attach themselves too. These spells last longer, making the shadows more malleable for a longer period of time. While this is generally considered to be spell casting in the third sphere, many of those who are capable of manipulating shadow this way are also to give turn their shadows into “individual ghosts who are able to suck the life” out of their victims. While this is a frightening thought, the truth of it comes through the power of advanced shadowmancers to summon, which of course supports the claim that some shadowmancers are, in turn, Ecua mages.

Many of the life-sucking ghosts rumored to emerge from a shadowmancer’s conjured shadow are often parasitic demons both from Caelereth and the Netherworld who are easily able to inhabit shadows or are most comfortable in shadowy habitats.

Shadowy Practitioners: Shadowmancy is an art limited almost completely to the cols island of Cyhalloi. Though Shadowmancy can be practice on the most basic levels by Fire mages, they tend to lack the skill of manipulation and control of their assumed shadows that the Shadowmancers of the north enjoy. Ecuan mages are the only non-Kasumarii who can practice Shadowmancy on the fundamental level, though their lack of faith does not allow a practical use of the art. Only those blessed with the Shadowy ‘gift’ by Korenjah can use this clerical magic with stealth, grace, and pragmatism.

The most elite of the shadowmancers are the darkpriests, who are said be gifted the most by Korenjah in the ways of shadow magic. Many Kasumarii say that the gift of shadowmancy is “the gift of Korenjah to his beloved Kasumariian daughters,” as most darkpriests are female. Others believe that female Kasumarii are merely more potent in magic, and are thus most suited to such a sect. In any case, darkpriests are the most highly trained and skilled in Shadomancy, though many Kasumarii not of the darkpriest sect also have the ability to cast novice spells to aid them in their assassinations. These include, obviously, the Nightsons, who are trained in all Kasumarii sects including that of the darkpriests. Often the Korenjaans will also make use of basic Shadowmancy spells, as well.

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 10/1/05 15:46


Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: isaraldor glamthail on 30 July 2005, 07:22:00
Very good. But summoning I still don't get and there was some talk sometime that it was both ecua and xeua, though i don't think it was ever published. Could you clear it up? Thanks, and no 2 page essays please, i'm no teacher. ;)  



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Arancaytar Ilyaran on 30 July 2005, 07:34:00
Summoning and Weavers. Aw gosh, we talked about this for a long time in Landshut, but I don't remember if we came to any conclusion. ^^


If Fire is Earth desiring to be Wind,
And Water is Wind trying to be Earth,
What then is Fire wishing to be Water?

Santharia, a place of world creation and roleplaying.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 30 July 2005, 15:10:00
You're right, Isaraldor--both Xeua and Ecua mages can summon, though they do it in different ways. As I understand it Xeua and Ecua mages can essentially do the same things, but they use a different method to do it--eac huses the reverse of the other. They're two sides of the same coin, to use a popular figure of speech.

Now, Summoning: As I said, both Xeua and Ecua mages can summon:

Xeua mages do it by strengthening the connection between the place the mage is and the beast he/she is trying to summon. Those links go from Ahm (passive) to Soor (active) and the links become stronger at the mages location than the beast's, so the beast moves.

Ecua mages do it in the reverse way. Instead of strengthening the connection between the place the mage is and the beast, he/she weakens the connections linking the beast to its current location, causing the links to the mage's location to strengthen, eventually causing the beast to move to the mage's location.

Some basic principles that you should know to fully understand this: everything is connected to everything else, though most of those connections are extremely weak. Everything is connected to everything else. Also, there are the same amount of Soor (active) and Ahm (passive) links in and between any one carall at any given time. Thus, if you strengthen a link, another link has to weaken.

Understand?



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Mina on 31 July 2005, 01:18:00
What you have now sounds like it was written from a Ximaxian perspective, which I suspect might not be the best for such entries.  Certainly it would be better for the main part of the entry to deal with the Darkpriests' own believes and theories about their magic system?  I have no problem with an essay describing the Ximaxians' views of shadowmancy, of course, but I don't think that it would do a very good job of describing it.  

As for summoning, I recall posting some time back a proposal that it requires cooperation between xeua and ecua mages, strengthening links to the mages' location while at the same time weakening those at the summoned being's original location (a somewhat simplified description).  Unfortunately, it didn't generate much discussion, and apparently has been lost during the hacking.  Possibly, it was this proposal that Isa was referring to.  




Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 31 July 2005, 01:26:00
I describe it in the Ximaxian way because I believe the Ximaxian way provide the basics, the necessary components needed to scientifically explain how Shadowmancy works. Shadowmancy is a CLERICAL form of magic, so if I tried to do an explanation on it from the dark priests' point of view, the reason spells work is because "the gods will it so." Ximaxian magic, I think, better explains all the components needed to make such a reaction take place.

I will, however, add a section in just for the purpose of explaining that shadowmancy is clerical. Would that suffice?



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Mina on 31 July 2005, 01:36:00
I suspect that shadowmancy is clerical in a different way than Santharian clerical magic.  Dasson once mentiond that they would more likely cast using gestures than incantations, in order to be more quiet, implying that their magic is more reliable and mage-like, instead of merely praying to their gods and hoping for miracles to happen.  What little we know of shadowmancy from the entries already on the site suggests so too.  We know that it is clerical because that's what Xarl said when shadowmancy was first created, but exactly how it is clerical has never really been explained, and I don't think the clerical magic entry currently being worked on is really applicable to non-Santharian clerical magic.  Clerics certainly come in more forms than that.  




Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: isaraldor glamthail on 31 July 2005, 08:13:00
Yeah, I understand now, and yay! no 2 page essay! :biggrin

The way the Kasumari entrance is described as is "wizard-clerics". So perhaps they have somewhat of a combined ximaxian and clerical system. One in which they understand what the gods are doing in order to create the effect the shadowmancer wants to varing degrees of skill and faith. That would also mean that a shadowmancer can not have only one of the 2 aspects and hope to be good. They must have both to be of any help. This in turn makes the kasumari shadowmancer seem more deadly then it already is.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 31 July 2005, 10:43:00
@Mina: I'm confused at where you're getting the idea that clerical magic requires prayers--in the basic magic entry it even says prayers are optional. I said it was clerical because that's what's in the entry on Kasumarii, where darkpriests are said to have "the clerical gift of Shadowmancy." I never said they read prayers aloud, and indeed, as you mentioned, that would be silly, because it would blow their cover.

It's a clerical magic because it is based on belief in a god who gives such a power to the darkpriests-- probably Korenjah. For the Kasumarii, HE is the reason the spells work. At least, I see it this way. You seem to see it differently. Can you explain?



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Mina on 31 July 2005, 12:23:00
@ Rayne: I think you have misunderstood what I said slightly.  I didn't claim that clerical magic required spoken prayers.  Talia's new clerical magic entry, as far as I can remember, seems however to suggest that prayers of some kind, whether spoken or otherwise, are required for Santharian clerical magic.  But, the main point I was trying to get across was that the entry seems to describe Santharian clerical magic as being rather unreliable - the cleric prays for something to happen, and it is up to his or her god to decide whether anything happens, and what exactly happens.  Essentially, if anything happens at all, it'd be the god doing the magic, not the cleric.  Or at least that's the general impression I got from it; I've never been particularly good with clerical magic.  

Shadowmancy, on the other hand, seems a lot more reliable, from what we already know.  They at least seem to have fixed spells that work every time, instead of having to rely on their god's decision.  The part about Dasson telling us about their use of gestures rather than incantations is merely to further illustrate this point.  Their god, probably Korenjah in this case, as you have mentioned, would have to be involved somehow, seeing as it is some kind of clerical magic, but I am quite certain it would not be the same way Santharian clerics believe their gods are involved in their own magic.  It could be that the Kasumarii believe that the ability to perform shadowmancy is a power granted by Korenjah, as you said, or it could be something else entirely.  I think we are quite free to make up how Korenjah is involved in their magic, since Dasson seems to have left magic for good, and Coren, who had expressed some interest to develop shdowmancy in the past, has apparently disappeared.  

I think we have also diverged quite far from the point I was trying to make in my first post here, which was that I think the main entry of a magic system should be about how its practitioners think it works, rather than how some outsider (ie. the Ximaxians) think it works.  The Ximaxian theories, I think, should be in addition to the main entry, instead of being the main entry, perhaps as a section by itself, or in cases where it is very detailed, like this one, maybe a separate entry.  

@ Isa: I not sure what you are trying to say.  Perhaps you could elaborate on it.  




Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 31 July 2005, 14:00:00
Quote:
since Dasson seems to have left magic for good, and Coren, who had expressed some interest to develop shdowmancy in the past, has apparently disappeared


:veryconfused  I'm still very much here :wave  But I don't remember asking to work on shadowmancy?



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 31 July 2005, 14:39:00
As previously stated, the I have written the how Shadowmancy works in the Ximaxian way because it is a more scientific means of appraoching shadowmancy. It describes specifically what is going on.

And I don't think we can leap to the assumption that shadowmancy, as a clerical form of magic, is more reliable than other types of magic, but I'm sure it seems that way. After all, Cyhalloi is pretty far away, so the only shadowmancers we hear about are likely to be the skilled ones. The only shadowmancers we're likely to see are the ones that were good enough at their art to be hired by Santharian noblemen for assassinations or whatnot.

As I see it, clerical magic means that whoever does the magic asserts that this magic came from a god. I think the place we're really diagreeing seems to be on this point. I think that it's clerical magic if the cleric believes their god gave them the gift to do spells or that the cleric believes the spells came from god. You solely believe in the latter.

To make this a little clearer: if magic were music and spells were songs, I would describe a magic/music as clerical if a cleric/mucisian claimed that a god had given him the instrument and the skill to play it, or if the cleric/mucisian claimed that the song people heard came from a god. In the end, the spells/songs are the gods doing--only one way is direct and the other is indirect. Shadowmancy, as I see it, is an indirect form of clerical magic. Does that make sense?

I won't make the Ximaxian form of magic the main part of the entry. The entry is unfinished (hence the icon). But I still see the Ximaxian explanations as more scientific--and, perhaps, the most difficult to write, so I got it out of the way.

Can we agree on the clerical explanations above?



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Mina on 31 July 2005, 14:45:00
@ Coren: Oops, must have gotten the name wrong.  I guess his name was spelled Koren, then?  I'm sure I pronounced it the same way.  

@ Rayne: Will reply later; I need some sleep.  




Title: ...
Post by: Takashi Logan on 31 July 2005, 19:23:00
Started writing an essay, randomly, since the actual shadowmancy topic has been taking, originally offering a brief explanation, now a full explanation from a Ximaxian's point of view, though the point of clerical magic doesnt seem to suit it. I would probably mark it, were it taught at Ximax, as water, or wind, some highly advanced form of a cross between summoning, and illusion perhaps (you did mention up there that the Nether-parasites, wind up acidentally summoned.



Title: Re: ...
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 31 July 2005, 19:38:00
Shadowmancy isn't taught at Ximax, but Ximaxian people could perform it, or something close to it. And the nether-creatures aren't always summoned accidentally. ;)  



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Mina on 01 August 2005, 04:10:00
After reading through your post carefully it seems both of us agree that shadowmancy is an indirect form of clerical magic.  I was under the impression that you were claiming it to be the direct form, which I did not agree with.  As for the definition of clerical magic, I never said that it could only be clerical magic if the magical effect was believed to be solely caused by the god.  What I said was that that was how Santharian clerical magic seems to work, and it need not be the same for other cultures of Caelereth.  I believe I did mention that a magic system could be considered clerical if gods are believed by its practitioners to be involved in any way, whether directly or indirectly.  

I also see that I might perhaps have acted too quickly in assuming that you intended the Ximaxian theories to be the main part of the entry.  I'll try to remember next time that the main parts of an entry aren't always the ones that are written first.  

BTW, since you did mention summoning ghosts and demons as part of the Ximaxian entry, does this mean that they are now no longer mythical beings, but definitely exist?  I haven't been able to find any recent discussion about them on the dev board when I looked, though I seem to recall that there was some talk about them only a short time ago.  

I'll most likely be unable to visit again until the next weekend, so any further discussion you might wish to have with me would probably have to wait until then.  




Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: isaraldor glamthail on 01 August 2005, 18:32:00
@mina: was going to, but you covered it already.

@rayne: you can always talk to me. (well, almost always) besides i need to learn how the experts do things and get invovled to become one.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 01 August 2005, 21:04:00
Quote:
since you did mention summoning ghosts and demons as part of the Ximaxian entry, does this mean that they are now no longer mythical beings, but definitely exist?


Well, I don't know. I have to remain true to the entries currently up on the site, and the Kasumarii mentions this:

Quote:
Those who dabble in Shadowmancy learn how to bend light around them, to cloak themselves in shadow, and have the frightening knowledge to turn the very shadows around an individual into spiritual ghosts that have the power to literally suck the life out of the one whom they have attacked.


I would prefer to keep myths as myths. The Ximaxian explanations explain how such a thing is possible, though I think the entry does a good job of not stating that such creatures exist, just that this is how they would do it. I don't think dark priests often come to Santharia, so a lot of the Shadowmancy we've been exposed to probably comes from Kasumarii assassins hired by the rich, and these assassins know a little bit of shadowmancy, though they don't have the ability to summon.

Isa: Just join into the conversation. Perhaps you have an idea about what to do with this summoning problem? We want to keep myths as myths, but we also need to stay true to the entry.

I wonder if we can't get Arti to tweak that part a little.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 09 August 2005, 12:20:00
How about letting the shadows suck the fire ouns out of people, or something like that?

And does faith still have an influence on the casting? Like stronger/weaker spells? And can somebody who completely lost faith still cast? Or do the gods 'take away their abilities' when that happens?



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 09 August 2005, 12:31:00
How would shadow suck fire ounia away from people? The car'all of a shadow... that's not right... the car'all of something IN shadow... is stable. The car'all of most people is stable at any given time (or we assume). It would be rather difficult to had shadows such fire ounia out of people. I'm not sure I see why a caster would do this, either.

Faith should have some influence over casting. That's a good point. I'll address that in this entry. Thanks, Marvin!



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Erian Melor on 09 August 2005, 13:34:00
Quote:
Those who dabble in Shadowmancy learn how to bend light around them, to cloak themselves in shadow, and have the frightening knowledge to turn the very shadows around an individual into spiritual ghosts that have the power to literally suck the life out of the one whom they have attacked.

I can understand how this paragraph could cause a few problems. Maybe instead of claiming that the ghosts are actually demons, you could say that the victim perceives himself/herself to be surrounded by ghosts and dies of fright? I would imagine that a darkpriest could do such a thing. I realize that I probably have no business commenting in the magic forum, but I actually understood your entry! Maybe I'm learning to understand the magic system after all.;)  

Erian Melor~The spark of life rests upon the edge of a knife.
~Elf Age Calculator
~Measures Converter



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 09 August 2005, 13:43:00
I do try to use a less complicated means of explanation, which is why I redid some entries for Artimidor. Artimidor is the expert, but he can be awfully complicated at times (it's because he's so brilliant, though).

I don't want to change the entry too much based on perceptions--how someone might perceive a fiven situation. I think that, if in actuality someone was killed because of how they percieved the shadows, that would be the explanation given in the Kasumarii entry. Maybe, though, the Kasumarii entry can be changed. It is a good point you bring up!



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Kain Cristar on 09 August 2005, 18:20:00
Maybe... Maybe it is a spell that is much like touch of fate, but instead of through the actual hands, it creates an avatar of shadow drain the victim of Car'all? Then the "ghost" dissapears because it's car'all takes damage = to that of the victim's?... I have no idea what the avatar might be, maybe just a manifestation of anti fire? That acts as a channel for the spell? You would have to be mighty powerfull to do such a thing, but... uh.. I say it can so there!:evil  I dont know.:noidea  

Edited by: Kain Cristar  at: 8/9/05 2:30


Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 August 2005, 18:29:00
Oh, I missed this entry totally, will come back to it later!

(2:30 am here)

Rayne, do you know my first steps of magical cleric for santharia?

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 09 August 2005, 21:58:00
You can't really "drain" car'all. :|  ::is confused::



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Kain Cristar on 09 August 2005, 23:44:00
sorry I say things funny because I talk like i think and it makes sense to me... sometimes... What i mean is it takes the foes Car'all into yourself. Thats what the discriptor states anyways. I am bad at explaining this... here is a link

Edited by: Kain Cristar  at: 8/9/05 7:52


Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 August 2005, 01:45:00
Rayne, I haven't followed all of your discussion with Mina, just read your entry. I'm totally happy with it (not really understanding your Ximaxian explanation, at least I couldn't say, if it is correct!) and will have no problem with integrating it in this huge project about Clerical magic I'm planning. I might just introduce your "essay" with the hint, that an Ximaxian mage wrote it and that those of course tend to say, that clerics, even Santharian, use spells,where clerics deny heavily, that their prayers are spells. I will treat Viresse' entry about clerical magic in the same way. Hope you don't have objections with it.

And I really like it, especially the part I understand ;)  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Mina on 10 August 2005, 04:54:00
That spell is old.  Car'all isn't analogous to things like the mana that a lot of fantasy worlds seem to have.  I don't think it's a concept that can easily be explained in English.  Terms used in the past to translate it include 'aura', 'spirit', and 'idea', but I don't think any of those terms really fit.  The best translation I can think up at the moment would be 'a nonphysical equivilent of the physical manifestation of something'.  Thus, you can't just drain it.  The closest you can get, from what I understand, is to merge two car'alls into one, and even that would require powerful xeua magic, if it's possible at all.  You could, of course, assuming it works, merge your foe's target with your own, but I doubt that it'd produce the effect you want.  




Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 10 August 2005, 05:42:00
Well, I'm just trying to give an alternative way of seeing things. Maybe it's just the Kasumarii that say that the live is sucked out of the victims. It’s not like the victims will be able to tell how it feels afterwards. I was thinking about the shadows of being more a visual representation of what really happens.

Cár’áll is stable at any give time, but what happens if the cár’áll of a person is altered? It’s still going to be stable, but with slightly different characteristics. To give a RL-example: if the acidity of blood would be slightly altered it would kill you, so maybe the altering of you cár’áll is going to kill you as well.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Kain Cristar on 10 August 2005, 13:19:00
Oh... but it is such a sweet spell... it makes me so happy inside... anyways it was just a thought. good one though, if it had been good i mean... yea. ON that note, should i cut the spell out of my character then? And what is wrong with the spell being availible only to extremely powerfull mages? I am not extremely familliar with the entry, but does it say that lesser mages can cast this ghost spell?:noidea  



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 10 August 2005, 16:04:00
Marvin, car'all is more spiritual and acidity of blood is physical. When we add oun to a car'all we change it's properties, but we only kill someone when we take away or make ahm enough links in their body. This is basically impossible to do unless your a a high-level Xeua or Ecua mage (in which case you're probably not casting a lot of spells anyway). Even Shadowmancers (who, at best, are novist Ecua mages--which is still powerful) would not be able to do something like that.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 12 August 2005, 03:27:00
I know it's more spiritual. You say that when you add/take away ounia you change it's properties. But those new could be the cause that the human body no longer functions properly, making you sick or resulting in death. You said in the suffocation entry (will update when I have time to review by the way) that too much prominence from any one oun in a living car'all will result in death. If lower the prominence of one oun, you have to much prominence of the three others, so why couldn't it be lethal?

In any case it does not necessarily have to be the removing of ouns. The point mostly is that the victim dies and the Kasumarii see it as 'life being sucked out of the body'. For Ximaxian people, that could just as well be symbolically: the life/light of the person fading away until he dies/his lifeless body is a shadow of it's soul (probably a bad way of saying it, but it's the best I can think of).



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 12 August 2005, 19:36:00
Quote:
If lower the prominence of one oun, you have to much prominence of the three others, so why couldn't it be lethal?


Because a living car'all will do whatever it can to maintain living. If you restrict all the xeua of Earth and make them all ahm, the car'all will reach out and make a soor connection with a earth oun somewhere in the surrounding environment. You have to heavily restrict the environment around the Car'all or restrict the car'all on all sides, inside and out, in all directions, which would be extremely difficult even for a level 10 mage to do (if he/she could do such at all).

Quote:
...the Kasumarii see it as 'life being sucked out of the body'.

No, the entry was done by Santharians--it is written for the Santharian Compendium.

Quote:
For Ximaxian people, that could just as well be symbolically: the life/light of the person fading away until he dies/his lifeless body is a shadow of it's soul

The point above refutes this. I doubt that any Shadowmancer would have the power to do this, even the advanced ones. Ecua deals with the breaking of links (not really break, but making ahm), but you still run into the problem of the living car'all struggling to maintain life. I think an outside force (not the magic) is needed to actually do the killing.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 13 August 2005, 15:11:00
Quote:
Because a living car'all will do whatever it can to maintain living. If you restrict all the xeua of Earth and make them all ahm, the car'all will reach out and make a soor connection with a earth oun somewhere in the surrounding environment.

And if the mage removed them faster then the body could add them agian?
Quote:
No, the entry was done by Santharians--it is written for the Santharian Compendium.

But probably not by a mage, so the person who did the research could have taken over the point of view of the Kasumarii, no?



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 13 August 2005, 15:19:00
If a mage could remove them (oun) faster than the car'all (not body) could add them, then you'd have a very powerful mage. I'm not going to say it's impossible, but rather that it's very, very unlikely that a Darkpriest would be this powerful.

The person who wrote the entry probably took over the point of view of a person that someone had hired a Kasumarii to kill.

If we could just change the entry, this would all be so much easier. |I  



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 13 August 2005, 15:48:00
When I said 'body' I meant the car'all of the body :)

Quote:
If we could just change the entry, this would all be so much easier.

Looks like that's the easiest solution :nod  



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Darien Gulath on 13 August 2005, 17:22:00
Just reading and somebody said; a car'all can maybe be best compared to; "aura" (and she named some other things) but she wasn't sure if that too would be the right word... But it certainly wasn't something like a manabar.

Hm somehow in the course of time i've started to look as Car'all as a Elastic (not sure this is right word in english). If somebody casts a spell the elastic (car'all) stretches but returns back to normal once it is done. The older a mage gets (and casts) the more this elastic stretches, to the point that it widens and can stretched even further. Also i like the idea that a person's aura, (or Psi) is linked (or the same) to the Car'all.

Also if somebody's Car'all would be sucked it would eventually return to normal (if the person doesn't dies) at some point.

The link to ones Psi with Car'all would  definitly explain why Clerics (or Cleric alike) are able to "cast" or "make spells" happen. As long as they have their gift of magic and their strong belief in being able to perform it.  



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 13 August 2005, 20:08:00
Car'all is very elastic. Xeua, the links that connect the oun, are elastic. Everything has Car'all, and everything is linked with Xeua of some sort. You could never actually suck someone's car'all out of them. But yes, magi especially have very elastic car'all--unless they get the Mage Grabber's disease, in which case, the Xeua aren't as elastic, and run the chance if 'snapping', so to speak.



Title: Re: Shadowmancy
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 30 September 2005, 14:30:00
I mark this one for integration as it basically ok. Rayne isn't available as she's busy with university, but I think what is a bit problemativ (like the demons reference) could be adjusted a bit and here and there a little update while putting it up should do the job.

At the Overview I miss a bit some examples on what Shadowmancy can do, actually it's stated in the Karii entry, and parts from there need to be integrated a bit better:

"The mages of the Kasumarii, the Darkpriests, are also, thanks to Korenjah, endowed with the clerical gift of Shadowmancy, the art of manipulating shadows. Darkpriests are, in a change from the human norm, valued members of the Kasumarii society, and are treated equally to the other sects. They are both feared and honored, as the art of Shadowmancy is quite a scary thing to behold - seeing a figure clothed in black suddenly disappearing only to reappear behind the orc that had snuck up behind you and slit its throat.

Those who dabble in Shadowmancy learn how to bend light around them, to cloak themselves in shadow, and have the frightening knowledge to turn the very shadows around an individual into spiritual ghosts that have the power to literally suck the life out of the one whom they have attacked.

Shadowmancy is also very comical, however, and is one of the Kasumarii forms of entertainment - playing with the shadows of an individual, turning them into dancing figures and reenacting tales. Only the caster needs knowledge of the play in order to perform it correctly with the shadows. "


Aside from that I guess the entry can go up, even if Rayne isn't here at the moment. Better to have the entry on the site than just at the Forum:)  


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Title: ...randomly he appears!
Post by: Xarl on 05 December 2005, 00:24:00
If the sucking the life out of people really doesn't fit... no problems with having it axed here. To be honest, I have no recollection of ever writing that bit... doesn't seem to fit.

It's utterly unrequired, naturally, but the explanation as given certainly gets my total approval.



Title: Re: ...randomly he appears!
Post by: Mina on 05 December 2005, 00:54:00
Whoa, Xarl reappears.  :jawdrop
Are you going to be sticking around this time, or will you disappear again?