Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Magic in the Lands of Caelereth => Topic started by: Pikel on 11 October 2005, 21:34:00



Title: Druidic Magic: Any thoughts?
Post by: Pikel on 11 October 2005, 21:34:00
Overview
Druidic magic requires the veneration of nature and is practiced in a very special way by the Druidic orders, including the heretical order of the Black Druids. It is based on their belief in 'essence‘ and the ability of the sentient mind to merge with it and then to manipulate it .This takes quite a long time to learn as to perform, but the results are often quite spectacular.

Prevalence
Only druids are able to practice the merging of essences. That limits the prevalence of druidic magic to those places where druids live. That is mostly throughout Southern Sarvonia and parts of Northern Sarvonia, however there are some scattered communities on other continents as well.

Concept/Worldview
Druids teach that all things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with it. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as its material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, its material counterpart changes to accommodate it. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of its counterpart.

Basic Principles
Druidic magic is based on the druids’ belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their own essence with the essence of what they want to change, and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with it. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millennia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. An older essence has "gotten used" to being the way it is. It is set in its ways, and thus harder to merge with. A younger essence is less set in its ways, and thus easier to merge with.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that its material counterpart comes into existence. Example, a human essence comes into being as soon as the child is conceived. Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Each essence is as completely unique as its counterpart, but like its counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the seven sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their physical “bodies” are, but the essences are still earth based. Nothing in this world has an essence that fits into two categories. It is always has a dominant essence type. Sometimes this is confusing, for it seems that someone objects in the world could theoretically be classified as two, but this is mainly due to confusion. For example, if one were to mix sand and water, a new essence would not be created, there would merely be two essences next to each other, water and sand, and while their physical aspects may be mixed, their essences are still quite separate.

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to influence the essence of the other object, thus changing its characteristics. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

Abilities
Once the merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he wants to change are one. The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes. Of course, the more complex or intricate the change, the more a druid must concentrate on said change, or he may wind up with unexpected results. Making a seedling grow into a full grown tree is fairly simple, while making it grow into a tree of an odd shape or into a different color or texture than what is natural, that is a bit more complicated, and requires more concentration, and more practice.

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the number of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids. Thus, if an inexperienced druid is added to the task, the task will get done faster, but not nearly as fast as if an expert druid was there, for experience is another factor. A practiced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how often a druid has merged with a particular essence; the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time.

Druids also have the ability to physically merge with their element. In Green Druids, this produces the Kroi’lon, or war dryad; a gigantic half man, half tree being. In Red druids this produces the phenomenon known as the firedance. The Druids body is completely turned to flame, but retains its humanoid shape. Gray Druids can merge with an animal of their choosing. This often makes for interesting, often bizarre and horrific, transformations; such has a half-man/half-flunki, or a half woman/half-Cartashian Bear. The Brown druids can merge with the earth, making the Sfomm-Kereen, Thergarim for stone baby, who have bodies of moveable rock, not unlike a golem. Stone baby is a misleading name although, for considering the Somm-kereen's size, very few of the people of Caelereth would consider it a 'baby'. Similar to the Brown Druids, the Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice, again, not unlike a sentient golem. The druids all retain their sense of self, and their intelligence during these transformations. These transformations last for three days, and they cannot revert back during those three days, for that would require changing one's own essence, which is not only tabooed, it is thought to be impossible. After these three days, the druid dies, for causes unknown not only to this compendium but to druidic society as a whole. Because of this, these transformations are only used in a last desperate attempt to protect nature. Black and white druids do not use this ability, for White druids are too aloof to become martyrs, and Black druids do not love sentient beings enough to die for them. Considering how formidable these transformations are, the attempt often works.

Limitations
However, there are limits. The main thing that must be remembered is that the druid must maintain his meditation while performing what he wants to perform. If his concentration is broken, than the merger is also broken, and any control over his element is lost. To maintain this concentration, the druid can only merge with, or attempt to merge with, one essence at any one time. Beyond that, the druid’s limits are few. He can change anything about the essence, as long as it remains based on the same category. For example: A Gray druid can do anything he wants to an animal, except give it sentience, because that would change it from an animal based essence, to a sentient being based essence.

It should be noted here that druids have placed a ban on changing one’s own essence. They have gone so far with this ban that they even teach that it is impossible to do. Not only that, one would have to be a Black druid to do it (for changing oneself would usually mean changing a sentient being essence, unless one is less than sentient), which is also banned by druidic society. There are stories of the elven Black druid, Mehán’chón, who figured out how to change his own essence. The stories say he made himself grow wings, and jumped off a cliff to learn how try them out. Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay, he remade acquaintanceship with the ground much sooner than he originally intended. However, for the most part, druids believe the story of Mehán’chón to be only a fairy tale.

It should be made clear that the merging process takes far too long to have any practicality whatsoever in most fights. Although, if one wanted the grand effects of an "artillery" of sorts, the druids are the people capable of fulfilling that role. Druids are capable of creating smaller effects; it just takes far too long to be practical in some cases. For example, a fire druid could burn down a tree, but it would be much faster merely to chop it down with an axe.

Training
Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that are required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of how to learn to meditate effectively which takes up a huge amount of time, and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. It usually takes roughly fifteen years for a human to learn druidic beliefs and magic, although there are rare cases of people taking a faster or , in some cases, longer amount of time to learn it. It should be noted that if the druids cannot use druidic magic until after they have completely learned the belief system and completed their training. Black druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders, and then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient essence. They are able to do this because they already know the basics of merging with essences, even though they know not how to merge with a sentient one. Thus it takes much longer to learn to become a Black druid than any other druid. Black druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on Black druidism. Thus, there are very few Black druids in the world.

Origins
This compendium holds no concrete evidence on the actual origins of the magic of Druids, although there are several reports, stories, and myths concerning it, and depending on which druid you ask, you will likely get a different story, assuming that the druid would be willing to tell you his stories in the first place, which is not likely unless you have proven your worth to him. Elven Druids tend to tell people that Avá, and the Aeolía placed the essences, or énh’cár'ámn in their tongue, in to their physical ‘bodies’. Some druids say that the first person to access an essence was an old farm lady, who managed to merge with one of her many cats, although this story is unlikely. Some Druids say that everything started as one essence, and thus one body, and slowly split into many, until finally all the essence that exist today, exist, as do all the bodies.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 5/4/06 0:00


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Theodorus Holzman on 11 October 2005, 23:46:00
Some thoughts on this draft.

1) You say there are no limitations to what a Druid could do, but I must disagree there. You cannot simply expect that by "coaxing" objects/creatures you will be able to do anything.
For instance, I could not, in a hundred years by a hundred Druids, be coaxed into growing to a hundred peds in height.
You need two things to explain the Druidic magic. Firstly, why things/creatures comply with a Druid's request. And secondly, how a Druid enables a thing/creature to comply to this request.

To take your example about the seed growing into a tree. Well, there's no reason why a seed wouldn't want to grow into a tree within a month. So coaxing might not be a problem. But for a seed to grow so quickly, it'd need a lot of energy (call it "lifeforce"), and that needs to come from somewhere. Druids might be able to provide it, but you need to explain how.

2) You say that Druidic magic can finally be explained. But what is the reason it's suddenly possible now, and not before? Why would Druids want to talk now?

3) Why do Druids consider Ximaxian magic to be "unnatural".

KR,
Theodorus



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Luca the Thief on 12 October 2005, 00:11:00
Looking pretty good so far, Pike! (though I spotted a few grammar and spelling blips I'm too lazy to point out at the moment)

As I said in the people thread, I think it should be worked out how much of a uniform concept there is among the druidic sects. They are so few and far between, and the races you have mentioned here do not intermingle very often or particularily well. So if a fire druid percieves his ability in the same sense a blue druid would hers, when/how did this connection become established? Of course, it seems rather druidly to keep such things a secret (they're good at that), but it's a bone for your brain to gnash on :biggrin

Oh, and what about white/wind druids? (I think the Maeverhim would do nicely here)


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Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 12 October 2005, 03:52:00
A good start, a start though only. I hope you know, what you have started here - it will be a lengthy bit of work.
But it is not a bad idea, to get the basics right first before starting to write the whole thing together using a template.

So I would propose, to work out a single point first - till it is cleared: I think, the „how does it work“ should come first, but keep in mind, what Theo has said (for later.)

I‘ll summarise:

Next work:

„How works druidic magic GENERALLY?“
„Differences between the druidic orders“


Work which has to wait:

„The Ximaxian View“
„Why do we know more now, since it was a mystery till now?“

A comment on the post itself:


I don‘t do a spell check now, for it will not be the final entry anyhow:



Druids and their their magic have always been mysterious. This is mainly attributed to the secretive and hermit-like lifestyles. But now, the magic of the druids can finally be explained. However, Depending on who you ask, the answer will be different. A druid describes his power in a much different way than a ximaxian mage.

You want to describe druidic magic here, and not compare both, so  would not mention Ximaxian magic here, but in an extra paragraph later on, at the end of the entry.

Druid's Explanation: Everything in this world has an essence. This intangible essence is what makes everything different than everything else, and can be described as a soul of sorts. If one learns how to communicate with this essence, one can convince it to suit one's needs. This is what the druids have learned to do. The essence of a druid is linked through meditation to the essence of what he is trying to alter. Once this link is established, the druid continues meditation in an attempt to coax the other essence into altering itself to his needs. The more drastic the change, the longer a druid must meditate. Example: It would take merely a few minutes to make a flower bloom, whereas it might take weeks or months to coax a seed into growing to a full grown tree.
I still feel unwell with this ‚convince‘ and ‚coax‘ thingy. It sounds like you use a soft form of force. I would rather propose to say, that with the meditation, the essence of the druid and the essence of the other being (animal, plant , water) come to get in resonance somehow, come to „exist“ on the same „wavelength“, so that the other „being“ does what the druid would like to have because they were for a moment „one“. I know, it is difficult to write down, I‘m not happy with my wording either. maybe think in this direction. My approach would have the advantage to be quite different from ximaxian magic and clerical magic, because the Ximaxian use a kind of ‚force‘ , don‘t ask if it is ok what they do with their target or with what they use to achieve their wishes, while clerical magic tries to persuade to achieve their wishes.
In addition you have to think about what has Theo said  where form comes the energy to let a tree grow. Though we never talked about this - I think the sentence of the conservation of energy or however you want to call it is given (you can‘t really create anything out of nowhere without having to give something back). And we should think about how much a single druid (the strongest) can achieve - growing a whole tree in a matter of a few days is pretty much, compared what else is possible in ximaxian realms or with clerics .


There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. Also, the stronger the personality of the druid meditating, the faster his goal will be completed. A stubborn dwarf is much more convincing than a nervous gnome. Experience is another factor. An experienced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time.

Certain races ave an affinity for certain essences, and thus are able to coax the essences much faster than one of another race. The list goes as follows:
Earth - Dwarf
Animal - Human (Eyelian)
Water - Merfolk
Fire - Orcs
Plant - Elves

I‘m not too happy with the categorisation here, and though it is not a must, I would stay to what the elven myth says about the affinity of the races to the elements, which are:

elves-wind
dwarves-earth
humans-water
orcs- fire

In addition, we can say:

elves-plants
humans- animals
dwarves- ?
orcs- ?

(the Eyelian are a different thing, they are not all druids and should achieve their goals in taming the animals in a different way)!)

I would not mention the merfolk, for they are half sentient only and surely not able to be druids - apart from a lacking interest in such things. you could however think about the hobbits and other minor races (mullog, trolls? surely not a gorba..)- ask their creators or post a general question in the forum , what other people think - but not before your concept is on a more solid base.

I don‘t think, that the fire druids in Aeruillin are a problem, for they could just be an exception, a joke of history. I don‘t know at all now, how and when to include them in aeruillin history.
And don‘t forget, that this is only an affinity..



Ximaxian Explanation: Druidic magic is not completely dissimilar to ximaxian magic, through druids would deny this vehemently. There is, however, one (at least) fundamental difference, and that is this: Ximaxian mages deal with only one aspect of an objects Car'all, while a druid deals with all of the car'all in an object. Example: Air is made of up of both wind and water Car'all, the former being the dominant. A windmage would deal with just the wind car'all, while a wind druid would deal with all aspects of the car'all. The druids, of course, know nothing of Car'all. They just speak of their essences and refuse to learn different, especially from those whom they consider to use unnatural power.
Keep this for later, no need to do it now, concentrate on the above - my proposal

Limitations: This form of magic has no real limitations should the druid be willing to spend enough time coaxing the object to do his will. If a druid spends enough time meditations, he can do basically anything.
As mentioned above and by Theo - it has to have limits - the power to do it has to come from somewhere - and it is boring, if everything can be achieved generally - single individuals may work miracles though...




I have warned you, Pikel!  ;)  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 12 October 2005, 03:54:00
Yeah, and what Luca said, white druids could be invented as well - stick to what we have but bring forward new ideas as well....

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 12 October 2005, 07:06:00
I agree it's probably best to wait with any Ximaxian stuff untill the end. First work out what druid believe and than try and find a Ximaxian explanation for it.

And it's probably best to leave out orcs. I don't think they're really the druid type of persons. That and pictured them to be more clerical. (I'm really going to start with that orcish religion/shaman thing soon. Just need some time to write things out :) )



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 12 October 2005, 07:40:00
Yes, Marvin is probably right - at least orcs won't fit in the sheme which works for all others (just imagined an orc using druid ways of coming in contact with the fire essence - terrible things could arise.
Maybe a special group of orcs (Nybelmar?) is different and uses druid ways of manipulating fire, just an idea.Marvin?

Btw, I would not stress the differences between the different druid orders in the general entry - they should work all the same way, but mention difference (which will mostly be the visible way, rituals etc to approach the essence)  in the druidic entry itself.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Erian Melor on 12 October 2005, 08:49:00
You've already have several great comments, so I'll just mention how trolls could fit into this entry.;)

Trolls could become red druids, as they believe that they are animated by an inner fire that does not perish. Thus, Talia's suggestion with a druid becoming "one" with his element would work great with trollish red druids. They would not be druids of any other element, not even earth. They were born of the earth, but it was fire that truly gave them life, according to their myths.

Anyway, I'm rambling on about trollish beliefs. Basically, trolls could become red druids but not any other kind of druid. If you choose to include trolls, then keep their strong family bonds in mind. In fact, I've got a suggestion on how you could use trolls.:biggrin

Trollish red druids would be trolls that left their bands after learning that they were fated to be killed by an insane spirit (natural disaster). Not wishing to bring disaster upon the entire band, a troll that learned of such a fate (he would have learned it from the shaman) would wander in search of somewhere he could belong. Upon finding the base of the red druids (wherever that will be), the troll would be relieved to find others of his kind and the trollish red druids would become his new family. The very first trollish red druid would have left his band in the same way and would have respected the red druids for their connection with the element of fire. Over time as more lone trolls joined, the number of trollish red druids would have slowly grown.

Of course this is only a suggestion, and it would not give you many trollish red druids. In fact, I would not want there to be more than thirty trolls that are red druids. Even though there may be enough trolls to form a band, they would not consider themselves to be one as it is not a band unless there is a shaman to guide it. By the way, no trollish shamans would ever become red druids.:p  It probably looks like I'm rambling and I may be, but I just like the idea of trollish red druids.:D  


The sun falls from the evening sky,
this life I cannot abide.
The eternal night draws nigh,
I seek the loving embrace of my lost bride.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 12 October 2005, 11:52:00
A good first draft, summarizing the discussion and outlining your work to be done, Pikel.

What strikes me as I read the comments is the programming dogma: "If the work seems big and incomprehensible, divide and conquire!"



Applied here, I see that the concept of Essence should IMHO be separated into an entry on its own, and worked out. How it behaves, what kinds there are, if there are kinds of it (your draft suggest fire essence and such), and so forth. Look to Car'all entry for inspiration. Once the concept of Essence is known to us, we can begin to speak of the druids, what they can and cannot do, and how they would do it.

Essence can be divided further still:

Essence itself, what it is and what it consists of. Here, be wary not to make it "yet another car'all".

The question of persuading (is guiding a better word?). How, etc.

Are the types of essence associated with not only races, but personality traits? And would it then be so that a stubborn dwarf is good with earth (similarities), or good with wind (opposites)? (This is Ximax speak, of wind and earth, of course. My point is the similarities vs opposites.)

Would essence of a certain type resist certain influences? Would a tree resist a druids attempt to kill it? Or would fire resist to be extinguished?

Also for essences, the talk about only "fully sentient" races to be able to be druids: Is it necessary? Does druidism firstly require power of mind in terms of intelligence, or strong emotions, feelings etc.? Do not limit yourselves too much by Ximax, my friends, for it will be your doom.

A final comment: Clear the concept! You are speaking of fire essence, then saying that a wind druid deals not ONLY with wind, but all aspects.

This all would fit into the the Essence entry, IMHO.



The druids entry:

Do the druids believe that a gift is needed to be a druid, or is only learning needed? Perhaps a personality? Strength of mind, or gentleness of it?

Also, here you would duplicate some of the Essence stuff, with personalities and such, if you chose to implement it. (To make the druids entry readable without having to memorize the Essence entry)

Orders of druids. Are there known organization of druids, or do they all operate alone?

The question of energy. Tio, your physics are appreciated ;). Ximax also has such problems, to an extent. Sometimes we say that car'all is energy and fuels things, other times we omit that and it looks just like what you commented on here.

However, the simplest explanation is to say that the druids use their own energy, same as they use to move, breathe etc. to guide or persuade. If they want a tree to grow faster, they would give it energy/take it from somewhere and give it to the tree. See this spell here, Burning Regeneration. There is a lot of presedence for "possible ways to practically solve magical problems".



Talia, are you sure you don't know magic? Your comments are fully adequate.

Finally, in this post there is only one proposal which I strongly burn for, and that is "divide and conquire". The rest are questions - answering them will give you something to write, Pikel. Also, some are alternatives - they are by no means complete, and there are surely many possibilities I have overlooked. IMHO, Pikel shall have the artistic freedom to make some of the choices for the druids himself (opposites vs similarities, personalities altogether etc.)

Keep up the good work.

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 10/11/05 21:20


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 12 October 2005, 12:03:00
:lol

Pikel, you have a lot to do, you got many good comments!

I see just one thing different, and that is what Silfer writes about a better description of "essence".
I don't think, it is necessary here to be so "scientific" like in the ximax entries. It depends a bit "who" actually writes it - the author could just not be interested in diversifying it too much. However, you as developer should know, what you want and where it should be heading. It could even be an extra entry (the essence), to not to make this entry too big.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Theodorus Holzman on 12 October 2005, 13:04:00
Well, just a suggestion here on how the Druidic magic would work.

Instead of the coaxing/persuading thingy, perhaps we could have the Druid personality/essence merge with the essence/"personality" of the object/creature that has to be magically altered. This also explains the need for a strong personality/essence, as the Druid needs to be able to retain its own personality throughout the process.

Then, the mechanism would be as follows:
A Druid enters a state of meditation somewhere near the object (distance depends on skill) and tries to harmonize his own essence with the essence of the "target".
Once there exists harmony, the two essences can merge, and now the Druid can alter things in the target as though he was altering himself.
If there is energe required for the operation that has to be performed, the Druid can drain the target's energy reserves, his own reserves, or perhaps some "stored" energy which he has with him. (A way of storing lifeforce in objects could be developed).

I don't know how you think about this, but perhaps this is a more natural view towards Druids than the "coaxing" thingy.

KR,
Theodorus



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Luca the Thief on 12 October 2005, 15:17:00
Just a quick reply to something Silfer said:
Quote:
Are the types of essence associated with not only races, but personality traits? And would it then be so that a stubborn dwarf is good with earth (similarities), or good with wind (opposites)?


I think this relation between essences and personalities could work, but remember, to be a druid in the first place a person must have a certain amount of discipline and drive. It's not like magic where anyone can walk into Ximax, read some books and set somebody on fire (okay, so I'm exaggerating, but I think you get my point? :biggrin ) . So, though a druid's personality may slightly influence what essence they are capable of manipulating/coaxing, to understand and harness the concept at all, the person in question must have certain qualities to begin with.


Also, just another idea, I think it would be neat if gender played a role among druids. Perhaps they beleive in feminine or masculine spirits? Or at least, among the four core elements. Perhaps because Plant and Animal souls posess "life", they are both? Could be a neat angle to explore.


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Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 12 October 2005, 15:21:00
Theo, that was what I meant with "becoming one" - merge.

And I like Lucas idea, that the gender might play a role!

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 12 October 2005, 15:50:00
Luca, discipline and drive is the Ximax way. Discipline and focus of mind. Also, Ximaxians believe that you need a gift, and that not all can become mages. (Partly I think this is assumed, Artimidor should back me/disprove me on this.) Therefore, I am asking Pikel if a) The druids believe a gift is needed, (If this has somehow been established already, point me there please.) and b) If personalities should play a role.  

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 10/11/05 23:51


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 12 October 2005, 19:11:00
OK, I am looking through all the comments and will be writing them down to figure out responces to all questions and working on incorporating anything i feel should be incorporated.

Thanks everyone for all the help....Ava knows I need it :p  

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 12 October 2005, 19:45:00
SHould I put the difference between orders HERE or should it wait until the actual DRUID entry is redone?

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 12 October 2005, 20:07:00
Also, I believe I should just take out the whole race thing. I just don't really see a reason to have it. There is only myth that really connects races to an element, and thus I don't want to connect them here.

So all races have the same advantages towards becomign any type of druids, although like Eri said, surely some races are more PRONE to choose a certain element i.e Dwarves to Earth.

I believe the "which races prefer which order?" question should DEFINITELY be saved for the druid entry...not the druidic magic entry.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 12 October 2005, 20:49:00
Talia I really like your approach to it....the "becoming one" Approach. I think I will definitely incorporate it.

As to the limit thing, Of course not everything, but I am finding it hard to explain what I want to occur.  I want the limits to be very low, but i don't want something just stupid (like the growing a hundred peds in height thing.) [And Talia, I believe i said a couple weeks-months, not a couple days. And if I did, then I apologize and I MEANT to say weeks - months]

Also, Silfer, I explained the "essence" thing, there IS no such thing as an essence. It is merely the overall Car'all of an object. Whether or not that is possible I have asked and gotten positive feedback on.

As to the gift, I believe nothing is really required except a certain kind of personality. One who is able to go through years of training one how to become one with an object's essence, and thus being about to manipulate it. And obviously, someone has to have a love for the element in which they are manipulating.

I am going to leave out the whole "Druid's disliking Ximaxian mages" thing. It was a nice idea, but i can't really justify it.

AS to the gender thing, I will think on it and get back to you.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 10/12/05 4:53


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Grunok the Exile on 12 October 2005, 21:57:00
Wow, so many comments in such a short time! I haven't really got time to read it all now (tho I want to!) but I just had to point out: secretive and mermit-like? :lol   And if you do in fact mean hermit-like, you could even perhaps use "hermetic".  Not that it makes any difference as this is a rough draft, but meh, random commenting is kewl, says I. :biggrin  





Grunok's CD



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 13 October 2005, 06:17:00
Okies, orcs. In Nybelmar you have Chyrakisth and Orcristh. Orcristh have a more clerical system, so they probably won't fit too well. Chyrakisth could work, but the question is, how will you find out what they think and believe?

I think the best fitting tribe are probably the Osther-Oc. They don't believe in gods, but spirits (see Festivals section). They are somewhat more peaceful and 'human' as well (don't kill the wounded, like to walk in the woods). But, of course, they are still warriors, so there way of using their magic will be affected by that.

Edited by: Marvin Cerambit  at: 10/12/05 14:18


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Erian Melor on 13 October 2005, 08:38:00
You should mention which races belong to which orders in the Druid entry and not in the magic entry. I would suggest giving some insight into how the different orders interact with their elements, i.e. blue druids may have methods of merging that differ from those of red druids.

This next comment is for when you write the Druid entry, so you can ignore it for now.:p  You have to remember that some races may have beliefs that prevent them from belonging to a particular order, i.e. trolls could not be gray druids as they would be more interested in eating the animals than they are with communicating with them. I would suggest asking each creator of the different races for their opinions on what orders their race can belong to. Bell ring them if you have to!:biggrin  


The sun falls from the evening sky,
this life I cannot abide.
The eternal night draws nigh,
I seek the loving embrace of my lost bride.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 13 October 2005, 12:40:00
Thanks people for all the comments, but I think we should Pikel now give some rest and time to think! ;)

A last tip from my side for you Pikel: It is not necessary to make it too complicated and to take in all what have been proposed here. You can always expand it later. There is always place for differences  - in the magic respect as well - in the single order entries. Maybe this magic entry you are doing here could even go in the main entry about the druids, but then it has to be quite general.

Just think about it for some time, and then you will know suddenly what to write :)  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 13 October 2005, 18:25:00
I will be posting a description of "essence" sometime soon...either tonight or tomorrow night.

That's the next time you will hear of this.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 13 October 2005, 19:19:00
Essence

All things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Thus nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with them. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as it's material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, so to does it's material counterpart. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of it's counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that it's material counterpart comes into existence. Example, A human essence comes into being as soon as the child is concieved. Also, an essence can be said to have died once it's material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existant. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, it's essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Each essence is as completely unique as it's counterpart, but like it's counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the six sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentiant being. For instance, a small piece of obsidian is vastly different from a mountain, but they are both earth based, as are their essences. and this is how druidic magic is formed.

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to manipulate the essence of the other object, thus changing it's make-up. If the spiritual side is changed, it's physical side will be changed as well, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, it's essence will change to accomodate it. The exception to this are sentient beings. Those essences cannot be manipulated, although they can manipulate non-sentient essences.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 10/13/05 3:58


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 13 October 2005, 20:21:00
I am putting the "essences" thing as it's own entry. It is far too lengthy and widespread to just have a little blurb in the druidic magic section.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 13 October 2005, 20:22:00
Because it is so lengthy and widespread, I am making the essence thing it's own entry.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Bard Judith on 15 October 2005, 18:41:00
Grunok, you spoilsport! :hammer

And here I was thinking we had a new race I hadn't heard of yet.

'Mermits'...

I even had a picture of them in my head - little, pallid, greenish things, with mossy hair, baggy pants, and big, froggy eyes.  Sort of a cross between a Mullog and a Terran dollar-store garden gnome...


:lol  



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Mina on 17 October 2005, 00:13:00
Quote:
(the Eyelian are a different thing, they are not all druids and should achieve their goals in taming the animals in a different way)!)

Well, I'd say that the Eyelians' skill with animals would give them a slight advantage in becoming Grey Druids.  

I could probably supply the Ximaxian explanation, if you want, though I've never seen much need in giving Ximaxian explanations for everything.  




Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 17 October 2005, 15:30:00
Mina, Silfer has offered to provide a santharian explanation, so no NEED of you to do it.

but if you would like to work with silfer on it, twould be very much appreciated I think.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 17 October 2005, 16:04:00
Mina, go right ahead if you want, I don't lack stuff to do. And generally, I haven't put dibs on anything yet, I was just stating that Pikel shouldn't worry about Ximaxian explanations, as I doubt we'll have a problem making them when/if the time comes.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Mina on 17 October 2005, 16:04:00
Hmm...didn't see that, must have missed it somehow.  Well, if Silfer wants to do it, it's fine too.  

Edit: Argh, posting at the same time.  


Edited by: Mina Aylwin at: 10/17/05 0:05


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 19 October 2005, 11:54:00
Edits have been made, awaiting comments, will probably edit mroe later today.

Obviuously not done though :)  

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 10/18/05 20:04


Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Erian Melor on 22 October 2005, 11:52:00
grammar
comments
suggestions

Druidic magic is based on their belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their essence with that of what they want to change and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millenia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. I agree with you on that the age of the essence would determine how difficult it is to merge with, but I think you should tell why this is the case. Perhaps the older an essence is, the more it is inclined to resist outside influences? Personally, I think of it in the way that I would a child and an elder. The child is very easy to influence (My niece repeats anything you say to her, and my sister wonders why the girl curses!), but an elderly person is set in their ways and cannot be convinced that they could be wrong.

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. I would like more details about druids working together. Perhaps they first merge with each other and then try as one being to merge with their subject? Experience is another factor. An experienced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how much a druid has merged with a particular essence, the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time.

Once the Merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he is changing are one. The druid then has the chance to change what he wants. The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes. Although there are limits. A druid couldn't make a rock catch fire for example, but he could definitely make it change shape. I'm not sure that this would be a good example, or at the very least it needs more details. Could a druid alter the size of a rock, i.e. changing a rock into a mountain? When he changes the shape of the rock: does he merely alter its shape or does he change it into another form, i.e. changing a rock into water. I would assume the former. Also, when you say change shape, I tend to think of shapeshifting like that of the shapechanger dragon. I think you simply need to clarify the example and maybe use different words to describe it.

Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training, one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that is required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of mass amounts of time mediating, and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. Black druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders, then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient essence. Black druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on black druidism. Thus, there are very few black druids in the world. Perhaps there could be an original black druid that discovered the secrets of merging with a sentient essence? Such a druid could have left written works that are forbidden for pupils or any other druid as such dark power is often tempting. Then, black druids would be those that were corrupted by such writings. You could even write an interesting myth about the original black druid.

Essence: All things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with them. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as it's material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, so to does it's material counterpart. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of it's counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that it's material counterpart comes into existence. Example, A human essence comes into being as soon as the child is concieved. If an essence comes into existence at the moment a child is concieved, then how does the essence of the child interact with that of the mother? Do they merge during the pregnancy? Also, an essence can be said to have died once it's material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existant. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, it's essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Each essence is as completely unique as its counterpart, but like its counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the six sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. You have seven categories here. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their counterparts are, but the essences are still earth based.

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to Influence the essence of the other object, thus changing it's make-up. If the spiritual side is changed, it's physical side will be changed as well, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, it's essence will change to accomodate it. The exception to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. I would like to see more details about why it is harder to merge with a sentient being. I think you need to mention that any being that is self aware and thus sentient resists outside influences and must be convinced that such a merger is beneficial. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. Experience is another factor. An experienced druid wgets his task done much faster thanone who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. You stated this earlier in the entry, and there is no reason for you to repeat it here.

Ximaxian Explanation:


The sun falls from the evening sky,
this life I cannot abide.
The eternal night draws nigh,
I seek the loving embrace of my lost bride.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Pikel on 22 October 2005, 21:02:00
Thankies Eri for teh comments.

Pikel LOVES comments.

Will explain the age thing, your idea for it has much merit i think.

The greater number of druids merging with eachother as a group will not work, because they are merging with sentient beings, which has a giant taboo on it. plus only black druids know how to do it. I will find a way to explain how it is done.

I will explain the rcok example.

As for the black druid thing, I want it to be so one can only learn how to merge with a sentient being by oneself. They just have to sit down and figure it out through trial and error (thus needed sentient subjects.)

I will explain the essence birth thingy.

Will explain more on why sentient beings are harder to merge with.

As for the final paragraph, the miscounted essence types and the numerous Grammar issues. That's just me being tired. Will fix

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Pikel on 24 October 2005, 21:21:00
I'm thinking that even with the new magic systems, some of the abilities the druids posses may still be used (ex: the fire druids ability to firedance, and the green driods ability to form the half-tree, half-man Krói'lón, or War Dryad)

anyone opposed to this?

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Mina on 25 October 2005, 00:30:00
Like I've said before, all known magic systems should be possible to explain using the Ximaxian system, so it'd depend on whether Ximax could explain those abilities you want to include.  

Firedancing, if I remember correctly, has to do with the druid actually becoming flame.  I suppose that could be done, though one would have to be really good to stay in control, and even then it would still be extremely dangerous.  

Forming war dryads is something I'm less sure about.  I can't figure out anything that can turn a tree into something that fits the description of a war dryad without what would probably be considered shapeshifting, which is impossible with Ximax.  However, assuming it fits your new system, you could perhaps have it as a sort of 'lost ability', something great druids in the past were supposedly able to do, but which no modern druid knows how to or is powerful enough to perform anymore.  That gets past the Ximaxian restriction because, without reliable records of that actually having happened before, and without any druid being able to perform it now to proof that it can actually be done, Ximax would probably not accept it as fact, and hence wouldn't feel a need to explain it.  




Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 25 October 2005, 08:26:00
Mina, I stick with a different theme - as long as it doesn't break world stability, it's quite fine. As in, don't want overpowered things/things like teleportation. But I agree with your view on the two abilities. Shapeshifting, however... well - good question. I can't recall any discussion of it at all, might be good to have one.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Crugeon on 25 October 2005, 11:51:00
Why would mergeing with a tree to become a War Dryad be shapeshifting?  I thought shapeshifting was the ability to change ones shape and appearance. I know shape shifting and becoming a War Dryad are almost the same the key difference is that when a druid merges with a tree to become a War Dryad he isn't changeing HIS shape are HIS ability; he is combineing his essence with the body or form of the tree so he can use it as a shell of sorts.

Atleast this is the best way I can explain how I see it..  



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 25 October 2005, 11:58:00
Quote:
Firedancing, if I remember correctly, has to do with the druid actually becoming flame. I suppose that could be done, though one would have to be really good to stay in control, and even then it would still be extremely dangerous.

Like said before, you could make the druid into a living torch (maybe even going as far as saying his skin or so turned into flames), but I doubt any curent living person can turn himself into flames.

As for shapeshifting, there are two ways to do so. First of all, you can for the illusion of being the object, without actually being it. Maybe you can even let it be that strong that at high levels people will actually start believing that they touch a tree, while in reality it's still a person.
A second way is to actually shapeshift. Change of the color or length of ones hair should be fairly easy. Once you can start adapting your own height it will get much more difficult. You will need a pretty high level to change into a cat for example. Turning into a tree is however something completely different (while a cat still a mammal and has sever things that work the same as a human, a tree no longer has any resemblance with a human) will probably be near impossible.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Mina on 25 October 2005, 16:35:00
Crugeon: I knew there'd be problems with using the term shapeshifting.  I'm not talking about the druid changing his form, but the tree's form.  Trees, as you should know, are not normally able to move, at least not the way a war dryad would be able to.  They lack certain necessary...equipment.  

Silfer: I just think it makes more sense if anything that doesn't follow Ximaxian rules are unknown to Ximax (and Santharia).  I've mentioned it several times before, but I'll say it here again to clear things up.  As I see it, Ximaxians are the sort who apply the scientific method to magic.  They're essentially scientists (well, the more theory-oriented ones anyway; those who are just there to learn how to cast spells don't count), though they don't work with physical stuff.  That said, I am quite sure that if they encountered (actually see for themselves, or have resonably solid proof that it exists)magical phenomena they cannot explain with their system, they would adapt their system to come up with an explanation, or come up with new theories if that is not possible.  Thus, they'd, over the ages, have arrived at a magic system that can explain any other system known to them.  I doubt that the Compendium writers would have more knowledge of magical things than the Ximaxians (especially since  there are mages who work with the Compendium too), so anything that appears on the Compendium would be possible to explain using the Ximaxian system.  

Marvin: As far as I know, true shapeshifting is not possible with the Ximaxian system.  I'm not completely sure about this anymore, since the last time this came up was long ago, but I think it's probably still true.  Then again, could be something to ask Arti about.  A team of xeua and ecua mages working together could (after an enormous amount of work) probably alter one car'all to become identical to another, very different car'all.  What effect that has on the physical form of the target I have no idea though.  


Edited by: Mina Aylwin at: 10/25/05 0:41


Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Pikel on 25 October 2005, 18:30:00
I am getting mixed signals.

I have been told that ALL magic should be explainable by XImax

Then other people say that's not necessarily true.

I really have no idea to believe, but really, i think that I agree with the latter.


anyways 2 more things

1) With the abilities, both abilities could easily be explained by this magic system. Just because ximax doesn't know whats going on, doesn't mean the druids should be limited that way.

2) does anyone have any comments about the entry itself?

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 26 October 2005, 05:09:00
Well, the problem is that all magic is compared to the Ximaxian system to determine how difficult it would be to achieve. As for spells it would probably be best to be able to have some kind of comparisement as to how it could be done (even if it's very vage).

As for explaining how it all works (the magic in general), you don't have to bother too much how things are done.

(Note: this is what I think of course.)

Edit:
By the way, you could explain the War Dryads the way Crugeon said. If the druids use trees to be some kind of harnas and fighting equipement (by merging with it instead of changing into it) it would be a lot easier to explain.

Edited by: Marvin Cerambit  at: 10/25/05 13:11


Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 26 October 2005, 07:36:00
Mina: Well, these things we talk about now, are "mythical magic", magic so powerful that it would be seen by a few only, if anyone, except those who allegedly could do it. Thus, Ximax could just dismiss it as legend, but the druidic magic entry should be written from the druid's POV, and Pikel can add a note about Ximax disagreeing if necessary. I would have been more restrictive had it been "simple" to do the tricks we speka about, becuase then we have question of world stability.

Pikel, you'll get a better/more intresting entry if you elaborate on the Ximaxian "disagreeing" and such. Ximax, Mina, is not the most "scientifically correct" org on Caelereth, they would be inclined IMHO to first say "that's just bull", and after a ton of observations grundgedly say "maybe it's possible, we'll have to rethink a bit".

The entry itself: Comments in red, grammar comments in blue

Druidic magic is based on their belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their essence with that of what they want to change, and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millenia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. An older essence has "gotten used" to being the way it is. It is set in it's ways, and thus harder to merge with. A younger essence is less set in it's ways, and thus easier to merge with. I cannot resist: It's is short for it is. Its is the same as Pikel's, Silfer's etc. Thus, your "it's" must be "its" a few places around here.

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids. Ex: 10 druids can do in 6 minutes what it would take 1 druid an hour to do. Is it feasible to let this work linear? Experience is another factor. An experienced druid wgets his task done much faster thanone who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how many times a druid has merged with a particular essence, the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time. I would suggest smaller paragraphs, perhaps... makes for a better read.
Also, is it only the expirience that counts? What of all the suggestions made, from gender to personality and whatnot? You don't HAVE to incorporate them, but you should expand the entry, alternately state explicitly that expirience is all that counts.


Once the Merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he is changing are one. The druid then has the chance to change what he wants. The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes. Although there are limits. A druid couldn't make a rock catch fire for example, but he could definitely make it change it's shape.
Here I would like more examples, and more importantly, limitations and reasons for them. (Limitations on what can and cannot be done)

Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training, one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that is required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of mass amounts of time mediating, and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. Black druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders Why? If tis possible to learn how to merge with sentient essence on your own, w1hy not possible to learn the normal kind on your own?, then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient essence. Black druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on black druidism. Thus, there are very few black druids in the world. Black druidism will be explained in different entry?

//snip, no specific comments on essences

Pikel, IMHO you are making good progress, but now come the trials. Main is to expand and better the entry. Also, to pick what to incorporate of the ideas that have been tossed at you. Oh, and please, check grammar!



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Mina on 26 October 2005, 08:33:00
I tend to assume that Ximax has gone through the "That's just bull," stage ages ago.  Most of the magic systems that are going to appear here have been known to Santharia for quite some time anyway, if I'm not mistaken, so most aren't going to contradict Ximax.  




Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 26 October 2005, 12:11:00
Mina: Yes, but they would in these ages have heard such claims only a few times, being that this is very powerful stuff. (Heard claims from good sources). So they could very well keep the "It's just bull" attitude.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Pikel on 26 October 2005, 18:59:00
Silfer

About the linear workings of the mass druid works....I was thinking about it today and thought it was very stupid, and thus will make it non linear. Will be explained in edit.

as to the other suggestions made to what affects time, i threw them out. I dislike them.

The limits thing we will be far more detailed ( i have it all in my head, but am trying to figure out how to make teh computer say what i am thinking :veryconfused  )

Will explain the black druidic learning more clearly.

And i do not understand you "black druidism gets its own entry? question......why would they?


and a question....would Ximax just disbelieve Druidic magic in general or just the more powerful/ rare abilities of the War Dryad (will explain how the War Dryad is made and how the firedance is done)  

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 10/26/05 3:01


Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 27 October 2005, 01:09:00
Pikel: Don't ask so concrete questions to such elusive topics . I am discussing with Mina here, and then you come and ask, "would they disbelieve all or partly?". Erm... I'd say they MIGHT disbelieve the very powerful kinds of druidic magic that they cannot and cannot find an explanation for in their own system. They have no reason to disbelieve that a druid can change the shape of a rock. Of course, they WOULD disbelieve the concept of essences, but they wouldn't dismiss the "observations".

As for the black druids: My question is this: They are mentioned here briefly. Therefore, do you plan to write about them in a different entry? (Druidic orders, whatnot - I don't know what you plan) Because if this is all you are going to write about black druids, it is muchly too little - I know more about them from our 10-line conversation in IRC .



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Rheine on 27 October 2005, 01:28:00
Quote:
As for the black druids: My question is this: They are mentioned here briefly. Therefore, do you plan to write about them in a different entry? (Druidic orders, whatnot - I don't know what you plan) Because if this is all you are going to write about black druids, it is muchly too little - I know more about them from our 10-line conversation in IRC


p223.ezboard.com/fsanthar...=155.topic

;)

-----
"She wants to go home, but nobody's home
It's where she lies, broken inside,
With no place to go, no place to go
To dry her eyes, broken inside."
-Nobody's Home, Avril Lavigne



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Pikel on 27 October 2005, 23:07:00
Edits up, please comment.

I will Put in ximaxian stuff after you guys are done discussing things, and after i am done with everything else.

I dont wanna deal with the druids POV AND Ximax;s at the same time

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Mina on 30 October 2005, 12:27:00
Silfer: It's a matter of perspective, I suppose.  I was assuming  that most known magic systems would have been known for long enough that Ximax is past that stage.  Now that we're clear it's an assumption, I guess it could also be wrong.  Still, I doubt there are going to be many systems that are that new to XImax, especially those systems that are native to Southern Sarvonia.  Ximax has been around for a very long time after all.  Magic systems from other continenets could be exceptions, of course, depending on when contact was made and how good the relations between the schools are.  The Memnoor Brownie's magic system, for example, is probably explainable with the Ximaxian system, given their apparent closeness (in the old entries, at least).  




Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Pikel on 05 November 2005, 03:50:00
I hate to seem rude or impatient, but could i please get some comments on the edits i have made

Thank you :)  

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 05 November 2005, 03:05:00
Patience, Pikel, you got a lot of comments already where others get none or have to wait for  a week till the first comes in . There is no need to scream all over the place with capital letters, we know you are here and we are looking (even I do look, though I do not comment all times when I see others around)

I try to get to your stuff this weekend, though I have limited internet access. While waiting you could go and comment on other entries, that is as important as finishing your own.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Edited by: Talia Sturmwind  at: 11/4/05 10:07


Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 05 November 2005, 11:55:00
Pikel: Comments are always nice to get, but try to think about how you could expand your entry - ATM my comments would be "Good work so far.", which is why I haven't posted them, as it doesn't containt information. Think on your own a bit now, it builds character



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Luca the Thief on 05 November 2005, 22:42:00
Quote:
it builds character
Silfer... that phrase can follow nothing good. :lol  


Contact me: faye_004@yahoo.ca or all us admins: rpg@santharia.com



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [AWAITING COMMENTS!]
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 06 November 2005, 16:33:00
Luca: I know



Title: Druidic Magic
Post by: Pikel on 14 November 2005, 12:34:00
Alright, Sent the entry through word and fixed grammar / spelling issues.

I have decided not to mention Ximax or their view on druids and their magic in this entry, for i am getting differing accounts ON how Ximax would view Druids and theri magic.

What? Why must we speak of my profession? Come, let us have a drink. - Pikel

Pikel



Title: Re: Druidic Magic
Post by: Pikel on 25 November 2005, 13:36:00
I have looked over this entry over and over again and I have no idea what to do with it.

I really need some help here. If any is offerred, it would be GREATLY appreciated.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 25 November 2005, 16:59:00
Some ideas:

Well for one you could explain the firedance and War Dryad more in detail (like you did in the other thread).

Also, maybe make somthing similar for each group? Like an earth druid gathering earth around him to form some kind of goblin like thing or a wind druid could create a strong whirlwind around him.

Still, try to avoid them becoming an element, but rather be surrounded by it, like you did with the War Dryad. Like for fire I propose:
Quote:
you could become so engulfed in flames that you become a large torch, but I doubt you could completely become a flame without dying. Also, instead of staying in that form after doing it too much I would let them burn up. If they stayed in that form for a long time they would probably run out of fuel after a while.


Druids are rather peaceful, right? so you could add that and stating that they will only resolve to fighting as a last option.
Quote:
It should be noted that the merging process takes far too long to have any practicality whatsoever in a fight.

Well, they could be prepared for the fight. A druid could gather animals or plants to fight for them or do protective spells. Or they could simply be sneaky and lure them in traps.
Quote:
Although, if one wanted the grand effects of an "artillery" of sorts, the druids are the people capable of fulfilling that role.

How? What kind of artillery? Can all druid do this (*imagines an animal druid using artillery - go my kitten go!*? Explain more.
Quote:
Druids are capable of creating smaller effects, it just takes far too long to be practical in some cases. For example, a fire druid could burn down a tree, but it would be much faster merely to chop it down with an axe.

Burning down a tree and chopping down one are two different things. A chopped down tree is still useful for one. Also, if there are multiple trees, burning will be considerable faster.

Quote:
Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Maybe it would be better to say essences change instead of die?

Quote:
Sentient essences recognize that an essence is trying to merge with it, and resists.
...
If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

Aren't chance higher that the druid will simply fail to merge with the targetted essence if the target has a stronger will? And if the target can change the druid, won't he just mess up (since he has never done somthing like it before)?
Also, you could also add that black druids suffer anyway because the their targets have a stronger will than animals or plants, like you added in your other thread.

Which makes me think. Can druids learn several elements? Black druids for example learn two elements (although they only specialize in one).

Oh, and maybe change the names of the orders to match with the other thread.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Pikel on 25 November 2005, 17:43:00
Thankies for the comments Marvin

Quote:
Well for one you could explain the firedance and War Dryad more in detail (like you did in the other thread).


Will do.

Quote:
Also, maybe make somthing similar for each group? Like an earth druid gathering earth around him to form some kind of goblin like thing or a wind druid could create a strong whirlwind around him.


I do not understand this comment.

Quote:
Well, they could be prepared for the fight. A druid could gather animals or plants to fight for them or do protective spells. Or they could simply be sneaky and lure them in traps.


This is true, i meant a fight in which the druid could not prepare for.

Quote:
Maybe it would be better to say essences change instead of die?


Had a discussion with Silfer regarding this, and changing will not work. They "Die", and a new one replaces it

Quote:
Aren't chance higher that the druid will simply fail to merge with the targetted essence if the target has a stronger will? And if the target can change the druid, won't he just mess up (since he has never done somthing like it before)?


Merging never fails if the time is taken to do teh merger. But the stronger of the two wills will be able to control what that merger accomplishes.

Quote:
Also, you could also add that black druids suffer anyway because the their targets have a stronger will than animals or plants, like you added in your other thread


I do not see what you are saying here.

Quote:
Which makes me think. Can druids learn several elements? Black druids for example learn two elements (although they only specialize in one).


They COULD, but for the most part wouldn't. All druids, with the exception of black druids, are part of their order for love of their element. Even black druids retain their love of their original element.

Quote:
Oh, and maybe change the names of the orders to match with the other thread.


...I honestly have no idea why I did not do that....




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 25 November 2005, 16:49:00
Quote:
Also, maybe make somthing similar for each group? Like an earth druid gathering earth around him to form some kind of goblin like thing or a wind druid could create a strong whirlwind around him.

Fire druids have firedance and plant druids have their War Dryads. So maybe you could find similar 'special abilities' for other orders? Just a thought though.

Quote:
Also, you could also add that black druids suffer anyway because the their targets have a stronger will than animals or plants, like you added in your other thread

I'll just quote what I mean from the druidic orders:
Quote:
A good many are also insane beyond function, for in merging with a sentient essence, the druid sometimes gains memories or knowledge. Gaining to many bad memories can be very bad for one’s mental stability, and some Nor'sidian druids lose their sense of identity in the merger.


Quote:
They COULD, but for the most part wouldn't. All druids, with the exception of black druids, are part of their order for love of their element. Even black druids retain their love of their original element.

Well, don't forget to add that in this entry.

Edited by: Marvin Cerambit  at: 11/24/05 23:52


Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Pikel on 25 November 2005, 17:53:00
About the black druids, Oh ok...will be integrated.

about the love thing and multiple orders, won't be forgetting. will be diting soon.

As for the  Idea of special abilities for all orders....interesting...I shall see what i can cook up.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Pikel on 25 November 2005, 18:07:00
AS to the special abilities, they will all end in death, including the fire dance.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 25 November 2005, 19:18:00
'Well, that could be a solution. You become fire, but 'burn up' in the process.

Maybe it lets them become the element, but they can't return as they loose their sentient side (thus control)? Plant guy becoming a tree, fire guy becoming a flame...



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Pikel on 26 November 2005, 13:32:00
I took out the paragraph concerning the joining for two orders because that seemed like something that should be put int he druidicv orders entry, so thats where it is.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic [I AM STUCK!!]
Post by: Pikel on 30 November 2005, 21:38:00
AS the title says, ready for comments.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 01 December 2005, 16:32:00
Okay, I shall go trough and comment. Also, I have few comments to add, it seems, and that's a good thing.

Quote:
Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and gravity took over, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay. However, for the most part, druids believe this only to be a fairy tale.


Gravity should be avoided. As in, the word.

Quote:
Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice


Not water? Movable ice is hard to do, you know, it's solid.

Quote:
Tragically, it costs the druids their lives to use these abilities for tree days.


Three days, I suppose. This is unclear, however  - if they use them less than three days, can they survive? Clear it up - not by just adding one sentence, but by rephrasing this point.

I have no further comments, but a question for Talia, perhaps, and also for you: Would druid ethics and such go here? You speak of protecting natur,e but in by-sentences, also of the taboo on tinkering with sentience, and so on.

Talia should look this over about "is this complete, and if not, why not".



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Pikel on 01 December 2005, 22:24:00
Gravity shall be avoided

Yes Ice....it is hard, but it is moveable (due to magic)....it was supposed to tie into the rock sentence right before it kinda...but it failed. will rephrase

will rephrase the three days thing....they have no choice as to the three days...they are like that for three days then they die. a cool explanation for this i just came up with while writing this post shall be incorporated.

thanks for the comments

EDIT: Entry = Edited




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 12/1/05 5:44


Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 02 December 2005, 07:11:00
I will try hard to get to your two submissions today -at least to one to give you something to do!! *sigh*

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 07 December 2005, 10:33:00
 


Druidic magic is based on their belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their essence with that of what they want to change, and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millennia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. An older essence has "gotten used" to being the way it is. It is set in its ways, and thus harder to merge with. A younger essence is less set in its ways, and thus easier to merge with.

From your druids entry I had the impression, thy do the merger out of „fun“ as well, so without wanting to change something - is this so, or are they only doing it on purpose, when they want to achieve something with it.

Abilities: Once the merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he wants to change are one. The druid then has the chance to change what he wants. The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes.

 This is a bit too vague and could be expressed in a shorter way. Give an example how you imagine it. Although there are limits. The druid must also maintain his meditation while performing what he wants to perform.
This is unclear phrased. I think you mean:
Although there are limits.The main problem (task, requirement?)is to maintain his mediation while performing what he has in mind (try to avoid repetitions please, this makes a text easier to read and understand)
If his concentration is broken, than the merger is also broken, and any control over his element is lost. Beyond that, the druid’s limits are few. He can change anything about the essence, as long as it remains based on the same category. Example: an Ithild druid can do anything he wants to an animal, except give it sentience, because that would change it from an animal based essence, to a sentient being based essence.
 „anything“ is a bit far fetched and would surely exceed the limits of this world compared with what other magical systems are able to do. You could add a „principally“, but again, be a bit more conctrete and give some examples

Druids, with the exception of Nor’sidian, and White druids, also have the ability to physically merge with their element.
Why is there a difference? If a animal druid can merge with a beast, why not a black druid with his victim? Where is there the basic difference? a black druid can overtake his victims mind completely, if I understood you right, so why should it not be possible?
Same with the wind druids - if fire druids can become flame - why can‘t wind druids wind? Is there a general difference in the essence?


In Styruine Druids, this produces the Kroi’lon, or war dryad, a gigantic half man, half tree being. Please rephrase it so that it becomes more readableIn Red druids this produces the phenomenon known as the firedance. The Druids body is completely turned to flame, but retains its humanoid shape. See discussion in ordersIthild Druids can merge with an animal of their choosing. This often makes for interesting, often bizarre and horrific, transformations. Examples! The Brown druids can merge with the earth, making the Sfomm-Kereen, or stone baby, who have bodies of moveable rock, not unlike a golem. Stone baby is a misleading name although, for considering the Somm-kereen's size, very few of the people of Caelereth would consider it a 'baby'.  Tell some more about these, what are they doing? lying around? Walking? for what purpose? Similar to the Brown Druids, the Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice, again, not unlike a sentient golem. Ice is a special fornm of water - why not with water - ice is a very special thing, maybe even the essence is slightly different, add some more here, there is so much room for imagination! The druids all retain their sense of self, and their intelligence during these transformations. These transformations last for three days, always, in every case? Who has documented this, how is it known? and they cannot revert back during those three days, for that would require changing one's own essence, which is not only tabooed, it is thought to be impossible. Tragically, it costs the druids their lives to use these abilities for three days. Thus they are only used in a last desperate attempt to protect nature. Considering how formidable these transformations are, the attempt often works.
 I don‘t understand, why they can‘t reverse the merging, it works in a ess intense stae as well - what is the difference?

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids. Thus, if an inexperienced druid is added to the task, the task will get done faster, but not nearly as fast as if an experienced druid was there, for experience is another factor. An experienced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how often a druid has merged with a particular essence, the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time.
Do the druids merge with each other in these cases, are they touching the minds of each other somehow, how do they know, what the other has in mind or wants to achieve? How do they communicate during these combined mergers if at all?

Limitations: It should be noted here, that druids are not able to change their own essences, for they have nothing to merge with. Not only that, one would have to be a Nor’sidian druid to do it (for changing oneself would usually mean changing a sentient being essence, unless one is less than sentient) and thus, there is a taboo on even trying to tinker with one’s own essence. There are stories of the elven Nor’sidian druid, Mehán’chón, who figured out how to change his own essence. The stories say he made himself grow wings, and jumped off a cliff to learn how try them out. Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay, he remade acquaintanceship with the ground much sooner than he originally intended. However, for the most part, druids believe the story of Mehán’chón to be only a fairy tale.

It should be made clear that the merging process takes far too long to have any practicality whatsoever in a fight. Although, if one wanted the grand effects of an "artillery" of sorts, the druids are the people capable of fulfilling that role. Druids are capable of creating smaller effects; it just takes far too long to be practical in some cases. For example, a fire druid could burn down a tree, but it would be much faster merely to chop it down with an axe.
ow would the firedruid achieve this? does he need a fire to merge with first? why not just putting a normal fire to the tree?

Training: Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training, one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that are required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of mass amounts of time meditating, and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. Nor’sidian druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders, and then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient essence. They are able to do this because they already know the basics of merging with essences, even though they know not how to merge with a sentient one. Thus it takes much longer to learn to become a Nor’sidian druid than any other druid. Nor’sidian druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on Nor’sidian druidism. Thus, there are very few Nor’sidian druids in the world.
 I would like to know, how a druid of one of the six orders comes to be a black druid - what gives him the idea? I think, not much is known about them in the druidic orders themselves - so you have to get the idea first, that you want to be one.

Essences: All things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with it. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as its material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, so to does it's material counterpart. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of its counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that its material counterpart comes into existence. Example, A human essence comes into being as soon as the child is conceived. Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Each essence is as completely unique as it's counterpart, but like it's counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the seven sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their counterparts are, but the essences are still earth based.

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to Influence the essence of the other object, thus changing it's make-up. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow , and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. Sentient essences recognize that an essence is trying to merge with it, and resists. Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.


 What you have so far isa good idea and  generally ok . What still is lacking a bit is the general layout, an introductuion, writing parts in a more relative way. I will try to set up a template for stuff of this kind as soon as posible, then you can adjust your entry to it and I will make some proposals to it as well. But apart from this there are some other things to mend or consider as well. Till then! :)

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Pikel on 10 December 2005, 22:53:00
Quote:
From your druids entry I had the impression, thy do the merger out of „fun“ as well, so without wanting to change something - is this so, or are they only doing it on purpose, when they want to achieve something with it.


This has been removed from the Druidic orders entry, for it now seems nonsensical to me.

Quote:
„anything“ is a bit far fetched and would surely exceed the limits of this world compared with what other magical systems are able to do. You could add a „principally“, but again, be a bit more conctrete and give some examples


I have talked to A few magic experts (Mina and silfer) and they see nothing wrong with how far druids can go with their magic...considering how long it usually takes.

Quote:
Tell some more about these, what are they doing? lying around? Walking? for what purpose?


the purpose of all the transformations is in that paragraph...at the bottom to be precise.

Quote:
Why is there a difference? If a animal druid can merge with a beast, why not a black druid with his victim? Where is there the basic difference? a black druid can overtake his victims mind completely, if I understood you right, so why should it not be possible?


Will explain better in teh entry....It is for lack of inclination, as opposed to ability....Wind druids do not care enough to do defend a certain area, and black druids do not love sentient beings enough to do it.

Quote:
Ice is a special fornm of water - why not with water - ice is a very special thing, maybe even the essence is slightly different, add some more here, there is so much room for imagination!


Ice is a form of water, thus it is water based. It has an Ice essence, as opposed to a water essence, but both of those are water based. so both would beunder the domain of blue druids. I figured ice was mroe formidale than water, so i decided to go with Ice as opposed to water with teh transformation.

Quote:
always, in every case? Who has documented this, how is it known?


Explained in entry

Quote:
Do the druids merge with each other in these cases, are they touching the minds of each other somehow, how do they know, what the other has in mind or wants to achieve? How do they communicate during these combined mergers if at all?


The druids are not merging with eachother, for that is black druidism. They know what they want to perform, for before they start, they tell eachother what they want to go down. multiple people merging with one essence for the same effect makes the merger go that much faster.

Quote:
I don‘t understand, why they can‘t reverse the merging, it works in a ess intense stae as well - what is the difference?


Was explained in a different part of the entry, made it mroe clear

Quote:
ow would the firedruid achieve this? does he need a fire to merge with first? why not just putting a normal fire to the tree?


he could do all those things....i was just using the axe as an example.

Quote:
I would like to know, how a druid of one of the six orders comes to be a black druid - what gives him the idea? I think, not much is known about them in the druidic orders themselves - so you have to get the idea first, that you want to be one.


explained in teh newly edited druidic orders

AS for the firedance issue.....i do not see a probelm....they merely become very much like a sentient Fire elemental....see here




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 11 December 2005, 13:09:00
As for the "druids can do anything" - Well, yes, just a Ximaxian fire mage of sufficient level can do anything with a fire/with fire car'all. However, a) Some things are harder than others, b)There is a reason Ximax has spells, and that is to be able to control what they do. So for a druid, it would also be a challenge at times to know what he/she is doing, otherwise the results might be nasty. (Consider a fire druid manipulating fire to say form a firewall, need to be careful or else he might get a big fire instead of a firewall.) The morale here is thus: Talia is a layman to magic, and that is very good, for "anything" for her and for me are different things, and thus you should perhaps add what I wrote here to the entry, so that laymen who read about druids get the right picture, and not a wrong one. (Provided you agree with what i wrote, but even if you don't, think of the layman and specify what exactly falls under "anything" and what problems may arise)

And yes, I did not think of this before. It is good to have other people with less habituated eyes look upon stuff.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Pikel on 11 December 2005, 22:08:00
Yes, I agree that druids may "mess up" what they are doing...especially with fire....or what they do have certain side affects....and i will mention it in the entry.




Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 30 December 2005, 15:01:00
Pikel, could you please rearrange your entry according this sheme? Though Artimidor has not given his last ok, it will come out nearly as it is now, I implemented all comments.
And add something about origin, it is too cheap to just say, it is not known. At least there are rumours, people have an opinion, even if it might not be the truth. You need to state of course, that this may be pure lore, but add something nevertheless!

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic Ready for Comments
Post by: Pikel on 30 December 2005, 16:52:00
rearranging shall occur, but it will be awhile, for i have to come up with something for the origin.

I'll ring ya when it's done



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 05 January 2006, 09:02:00
comments in red

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to Influence the essence of the other object, thus changing it's make-up. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. Sentient essences recognize that an essence is trying to merge with it, and resists. Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

Here I would like some clarification. By your wording, the essence of a sentient being is itself sentient, and can feel and be strongwilled. It is a little like saying that the essence of a plant is itself a plant. Is this intended? And, if it is, is this wise?

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids.

How do the druids coordinate their actions? Not in merging, but after they merge, how do they coordinate their actions to keep working on the same goal? They don't merge with eachother, I guess, but they could, say, have some kind of contact trough whatever they all merged with. This should be added.

Origins: This compendium holds no concrete evidence on the actual origins of the magic of Druids, although there are several reports, stories, and myths concerning it, and depending on which druid you ask, you will likely get a different story, assuming that the druid would be willing to tell you his stories in the first place, which is not likely unless you have proven your worth to him. Elven Druids tend to tell people that Avá, Coór, and the Aeolía placed the essences, or énh’cár'ámn in their tongue, in to their physical ‘bodies’. Some druids say that the first person to access an essence was an old farm lady, who managed to merge with one of her many cats, although this story is unlikely. Some Druids say that everything started as one essence, and thus one body, and slowly split into many, until finally all the essence that exist today, exist, as do all the bodies.

I would love some myth here... If you allow, I can try to write one.

I like the organised version, it is quite good now, and you can find your way around it.  



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Pikel on 05 January 2006, 16:46:00
Alright, Incorporations shall be made.

And Silfer, if you would like to help with the myth/origin section, It would be most welcome.

EDIT: I elaborated on the areas you specified, I am still thinking of some possible myths, and if you want to add one or two of your own, that's no problem Silfer.



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 1/5/06 0:05


Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 05 January 2006, 17:32:00
Ad-crockery, Pikel, second meaning. ;)  

Quote:
If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.


Essence being strong-willed?

It's a liguistic point, I just realized. "Wind essence, earth essence... sentient essence" versus "this essence is sentient". First is just a name, second means that the essence can think.

I shall see about the myths.

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 1/5/06 0:33


Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Pikel on 05 January 2006, 18:43:00
I shall look through the entry and see make sure none of that confusion can be found.

*realizes that the above sentence is worded fairly poorly*



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Theodorus Holzman on 08 January 2006, 14:01:00
I was asked to comment on this particular entry, and so I did.

Most comments concern themselves with content of the entry, and are in red. A few grammatical/stylistic things have been changed, and are noted in blue.

Overview: Druidic Magic is the magic of nature. Why is it specifically the magic of nature, if it is focussed around the idea of essences? What’s the basic link to nature, aside from Terran associations?  It is the magic practiced by the 6 Druidic orders, and the ‘rogue order’ of Black druids. Why name the Black Druids aside from the others? This magic takes a quite a long time to perform, but the results are usually quite spectacular. Wouldn’t Druids be able to do smaller things as well?

Prevalence: Druidic magic is, obviously, the magic of druids. Only druids, in places where druids can be found (which is primarily Northern and Southern Sarvonia), practice druidic magic.

Concept/Worldview: Druidic magic is based on the Druids’ belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their own essence with the essence of what they want to change, and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with it. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millennia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. An older essence has "gotten used" to being the way it is. It is set in its ways, and thus harder to merge with. A younger essence is less set in its ways, and thus easier to merge with.
Is this relative or absolute? For I would think that it depends on the kind of essence how fast it ages. A sentient or animal-essence might age faster than that of a plant.
Otherwise, some Druids (working with earth, for instance) have a much harder time than others (who might work with animals). As animals generally are much younger than mountains.


Basic Principles: Druids teach that all things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with it. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as its material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, so too does it's material counterpart. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of its counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that its material counterpart comes into existence. Example, A human essence comes into being as soon as the child is conceived. Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.
Perhaps I overlooked it, but I fail to find a notion of “where” the essence comes from. You tell us it comes into existence, but does how does it do so?

Each essence is as completely unique as its counterpart, but like its counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the seven sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their physical bodies are, but the essences are still earth based.

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to influence the essence of the other object, thus changing its characteristics. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient beings. Sentient beings recognize that an essence is trying to merge with its own, and resists, although the person may not know exactly what is transpiring. However, if one can get past that resistance, then they are able to merge with the essence. If one is not as strong willed as the person who's essence he is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

Abilities: Once the merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he wants to change are one. The druid then has the chance to change what he wants. The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes.

However, there are limits. The main thing that must be remembered is that the druid must maintain his meditation while performing what he wants to perform. If his concentration is broken, than the merger is also broken, and any control over his element is lost. Beyond that, the druid’s limits are few. He can change anything about the essence, as long as it remains based on the same category. Example: an Gray druid can do anything he wants to an animal, except give it sentience, because that would change it from an animal based essence, to a sentient being based essence.
About the limits. You say they are few, but your analogy gives rise to problems. If a Druid changes the essence of e.g. a mountain like he would move his arm, is he able to defy physics (even for a short time). The broader question would be: Is a Druid able to change an essence (and the connected object) beyond naturally imposed limits?

Druids also have the ability to physically merge with their element. In Green Druids, this produces the Kroi’lon, or war dryad; a gigantic half man, half tree being. In Red druids this produces the phenomenon known as the firedance. The Druids body is completely turned to flame, but retains its humanoid shape. Gray Druids can merge with an animal of their choosing. This often makes for interesting, often bizarre and horrific, transformations; such has a half-man/half-flunki, or a half woman/half-Cartashian Bear. The Brown druids can merge with the earth, making the Sfomm-Kereen, Thergarim for stone baby, who have bodies of moveable rock, not unlike a golem. Stone baby is a misleading name although, for considering the Somm-kereen's size, very few of the people of Caelereth would consider it a 'baby'. Similar to the Brown Druids, the Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice, again, not unlike a sentient golem. The druids all retain their sense of self, and their intelligence during these transformations. These transformations last for three days, and they cannot revert back during those three days, for that would require changing one's own essence, which is not only tabooed, it is thought to be impossible. Tragically, it costs the druids their lives to use these abilities for three days, for the essences between the druid and what he physically merges with are incompatible, and thus, the being dies after a few days. Thus they are only used in a last desperate attempt to protect nature. Black and white druids do not use this ability, for White druids are too aloof to become martyrs, and Black druids do not love sentient beings enough to die for them. Considering how formidable these transformations are, the attempt often works.

There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids. They are able to achieve their same goal through communication, for in merging with the same essence,they create a link to eachothers thoughts, and can project any ideas they have through this link. They cannot send any actual words, but only ideas, or notions. If an inexperienced druid is added to the task, the task will get done faster, but not nearly as fast as if an experienced druid was there, for experience is another factor. An experienced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how often a druid has merged with a particular essence; the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time.

Limitations: It should be noted here, that druids are not able to change their own essences, for they have nothing to merge with. This is strange. They can “will” another essence into changing, but not their own? I thought the actual process of change was caused by the “willing”, and not that much by merging. The merging seems to me only necessary to change other objects.  Not only that, one would have to be a Black druid to do it (for changing oneself would usually mean changing a sentient being essence, unless one is less than sentient) and thus, there is a taboo on even trying to tinker with one’s own essence. There are stories of the elven Black druid, Mehán’chón, who figured out how to change his own essence. The stories say he made himself grow wings, and jumped off a cliff to learn how try them out. Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay, he remade acquaintanceship with the ground much sooner than he originally intended. However, for the most part, druids believe the story of Mehán’chón to be only a fairy tale.
Another thing. Are Druids able to merge with multiple objects simultaneously? Otherwise, their inability to do so could be noted as a limit.

It should be made clear that the merging process takes far too long to have any practicality whatsoever in a fight. Although, if one wanted the grand effects of an "artillery" of sorts, the druids are the people capable of fulfilling that role. Druids are capable of creating smaller effects; it just takes far too long to be practical in some cases. For example, a fire druid could burn down a tree, but it would be much faster merely to chop it down with an axe.

Training: Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that are required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of mass amounts of time meditating, and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. I suppose there is also enough time to meditate on Druid ideology? Black druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders, and then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient being's essence. I don’t think anyone would be able to join an order with the purpose of becoming a Black Druid. It seems to me that such a thing only develops later on. Perhaps you could mention that in your entry. They are able to do this because they already know the basics of merging with essences, even though they know not how to merge with a sentient being one. Thus it takes much longer to learn to become a Black druid than any other druid. Black druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on Black druidism. Thus, there are very few Black druids in the world.

Origins: This compendium holds no concrete evidence on the actual origins of the magic of Druids, although there are several reports, stories, and myths concerning it, and depending on which druid you ask, you will likely get a different story, assuming that the druid would be willing to tell you his stories in the first place, which is not likely unless you have proven your worth to him. Elven Druids tend to tell people that Avá, Coór, and the Aeolía placed the essences, or énh’cár'ámn in their tongue, in to their physical ‘bodies’. Some druids say that the first person to access an essence was an old farm lady, who managed to merge with one of her many cats, although this story is unlikely. Some Druids say that everything started as one essence, and thus one body, and slowly split into many, until finally all the essence that exist today, exist, as do all the bodies. What you say here concerns itself more with a creation-myth/worldview of the Druids, rather than the origin of their orders. You should perhaps explain more how Druids actually came to practicing magic.


KR,
Theodorus



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Pikel on 08 January 2006, 15:07:00
Quote:
Perhaps I overlooked it, but I fail to find a notion of “where” the essence comes from. You tell us it comes into existence, but does how does it do so?


This is really the only one of your comments i dislike. And the reason for it is simple. How would a compendium writer POSSIBLY know this. I think people would just assume that it is born as the new object is born.

And as for your "aging" question. Absolute. Yes if they are merging with mountains, it takes a very, VERY long time to do it. But The Brown druids are mostly dwarves, so they don't mind.

Quote:
Is a Druid able to change an essence (and the connected object) beyond naturally imposed limits?


Yes. HOWEVER, he can't make a mountain FLY for example, because that just doesn't make sense. But he CAN make it  grow to a vast size, or make it explode, or make itflatten etc etc

Quote:
Why name the Black Druids aside from the others?


Because they aren't an "Order". This is explained in the druidic orders entry.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, I will be making edits today, or tonight, whichever is easiest for Pikel



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 1/8/06 6:22


Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 08 January 2006, 21:49:00
The question of where an essence comes from could be posed to Ximax as well, "where does a car'all come from". So I agree with Pikel, it doesn't really make sense in this setting.  



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Pikel on 09 January 2006, 00:37:00
Quote:
Why is it specifically the magic of nature, if it is focussed around the idea of essences? What’s the basic link to nature, aside from Terran associations?


Because druids revere natures, specifically the aspect of nature in which they merge with. Will make this more clear.

Quote:
Wouldn’t Druids be able to do smaller things as well?


See later in the entry. They CAN do small things, but with the time required to merge, it is often a waste of time, and more prudent to do what you are trying to achieve by more mundane means.

Quote:
This is strange. They can “will” another essence into changing, but not their own? I thought the actual process of change was caused by the “willing”, and not that much by merging. The merging seems to me only necessary to change other objects.


I am finding this very hard to explain, so confusion is not surprising. What i mean is, they cant change their own essence because they don't....have ACCESS to it. They have nothing to work with, whereas if they merge with somehting, there is something 'tangible' to work with (although it really isn't tangible, i just couldn't think of a better word.

Quote:
Another thing. Are Druids able to merge with multiple objects simultaneously? Otherwise, their inability to do so could be noted as a limit.


Because of the concentration required in merging, no they can't. I will elaborate in entry.

Quote:
I don’t think anyone would be able to join an order with the purpose of becoming a Black Druid. It seems to me that such a thing only develops later on. Perhaps you could mention that in your entry


It is mentioned in the druidic orders entry, where i think it would be more prudent to address that question.

Quote:
What you say here concerns itself more with a creation-myth/worldview of the Druids, rather than the origin of their orders. You should perhaps explain more how Druids actually came to practicing magic.


I am confused as to this, I thought i was supposed to come UP with the creation myth / origins of the MAGIC, not the orders, whereas i would come up with the origins of the orders, in the orders entry (which btw, i i have started work on the druidic orders history, although it is gonna be awhile until it is complete)

Thank you very much for the comments, I am editing and integrating your comments as we speak.



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Pikel on 09 January 2006, 00:45:00
EDIT: Please delete this post, Accidently reposted Entry here :upset  

I did edit it though :)  



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 1/8/06 7:51


Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Theodorus Holzman on 09 January 2006, 09:05:00
Quote:
The question of where an essence comes from could be posed to Ximax as well, "where does a car'all come from". So I agree with Pikel, it doesn't really make sense in this setting.


They seem different to me, actually. What I understand from Ximax is that Car'all is there, alongside normal matter. And although it changes over time, it doesn't really come into existence out of nowhere. I regard Car'all a bit like energy in the normal Terran world. It's there, and although it can be changed, Law of Conservation of Energy exists.

Essences I view more as would they be the equivalent of a "soul" of some sorts. And if you look at Terran beliefs concerning souls, you'll see they all have some sort of explanation whére this soul comes from. Especially if it is believed it is only conceived upon "birth" of a being.
For instance, some faiths say souls come from some universal Source, or from Heaven or God.
Point is, that it seems strange to me that the Druids wouldn't have speculated about the origin of the essences, and never took the time to construct some idea about their origin.

KR,
Theodorus



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Theodorus Holzman on 09 January 2006, 09:17:00
Quote:
I am confused as to this, I thought i was supposed to come UP with the creation myth / origins of the MAGIC, not the orders, whereas i would come up with the origins of the orders, in the orders entry (which btw, i i have started work on the druidic orders history, although it is gonna be awhile until it is complete)


Well, yes. But what you tell in the overview concers itself more with how the essences came into being, rather than how the first Druids came into existence.
Magic is the manipulation of essences, rather than the essences themselves. So I think your origin could use some extra information on how people learned to manipulate the essences around them, thus laying the foundation for Druidic magic.

KR,
Theodorus



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 09 January 2006, 12:05:00
Aha - Theo, I see your point about where essences come from.

As I see it, essences "coming into being" at creation of an object can be seen as an abstraction. After all, everything has an essence. So the essence of that object comes into being as the object does, but it is too a combination of the essences of whatever made the object.

Of course, that's one way to see it. If Pikel wants something else, I have no objections whatsoever.

I should see about some myths, yes. I am thinking a myth of creation specifically (surely the druids wouldn't hold to Ava, or have their own twist on it). And maybe some more.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 January 2006, 12:35:00
Theo, Silfer - thanks a lot for your help here! would you please bell-ring me as soon as you think I should have a look? It has not to be finished though (myth etc), but your present ideas/comments integrated to a certain amount. I'm currently behind my shedule of looking at entries that I'm glad if I can finish looking at some others, easier ones first.

Thanks again:)

Pikel, please email me about what you plan for your masterpiece!

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic ---- Set To Template
Post by: Pikel on 10 January 2006, 01:36:00
Quote:
So the essence of that object comes into being as the object does, but it is too a combination of the essences of whatever made the object.


That is the point i am trying to get across, about the coming into existence of Essences. I will try to find a way of integrating it into the entry.

EDIT: well it isn't exactly the point i am trying to get across, because sometimes one essence splits, or it just changes. They way it is, essences change according to their physical bodies, and vice versa. If a tree dies, then the essences also "dies" and a new "dead tree essence" is put in it's place. If a dead tree's essence is changed to become living, then that essence "dies" and a new "living tree essence" is put in its place. or one essence is "split" into two, like when a rock is split asunder. The rock's essence "dies" and the two new rocks have completely new essences for themselves. so there weren't two "parent" essences in either case, so your theory doesn't really work.



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter

Edited by: Pikel Thunderstone at: 1/9/06 8:53


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: ishmaelion on 10 January 2006, 06:13:00
@Grun

Quote:
secretive and mermit-like?  And if you do in fact mean hermit-like, you could even perhaps use "hermetic". Not that it makes any difference as this is a rough draft, but meh, random commenting is kewl, says I.


I would like it to be marmot-like, meaning gopher-like:crazy

like you said, random commenting rulez:number1

Ishmaelion



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 10 January 2006, 17:05:00
Oh, I just thought of it: Can an essence be more than one type? Think car'all, car'all of object typically consists of multiple elements. What about essences, can the essence of an object be like this? And, if it can, who of the druids can manipulate it and so on.

Also, I recall making this point:
Quote:
As for the "druids can do anything" - Well, yes, just a Ximaxian fire mage of sufficient level can do anything with a fire/with fire car'all. However, a) Some things are harder than others, b)There is a reason Ximax has spells, and that is to be able to control what they do. So for a druid, it would also be a challenge at times to know what he/she is doing, otherwise the results might be nasty. (Consider a fire druid manipulating fire to say form a firewall, need to be careful or else he might get a big fire instead of a firewall.)


I see no trace of that in the entry. As in, how do druids train to avoid messing stuff up etc.

Edited by: Silfer Darkflare at: 1/10/06 0:11


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 10 January 2006, 19:16:00
AS to the essences: No. One type. I have spoken to luca about this, regarding "mud". The essence of Mud is called a "mud essence". Mud is created by mixing earth with water, but it is PRIMARILY earth, thus the essence of Mud is an earthbased essence, and thus would be under the dominion of Brown druids.

Essence of mud....I think I just created a new Cologne.

As to the messing stuff up dealy: You don't see a reference to it yet because i have yet to put one in. I have NOT forgotten about it, i am just trying to find a way to incorporate it without it sounding forced. Also, this seems to be an "assumed" thing. A fire druid can accidently catch stuff on fire, seems pretty obvious to me. But i will continue trying to find a way to incorporate it without sounding forced.



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 10 January 2006, 20:55:00
Well, I assumed it because even if changing an essence is done just as you move your hand, doesn't mean it's necessarily simple. The stuff we do in say capoeira (or any other martial art) is all hands and a feet, but not easy to do. Good you haven't forgotten about it.

As for the essences: A more elegant escape would be to say that mud is not one object, after all, if I mix sand and water, saying that it is a new object is a bit strange... what if I put two rocks side by side, is it a new rock now? So for mud, earth druid manipulates the earth in it, water druid manipulates the water. I suggest chemical reaction to be the defining criterion for a new object and a new essence. And death, of course, for living things.  



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 13 January 2006, 11:33:00
Quote:
I think I just created a new Cologne.

:lol  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 16 January 2006, 20:02:00
I am having a spot of trouble explaining this, so here it goes.

Quote:
As for the essences: A more elegant escape would be to say that mud is not one object, after all, if I mix sand and water, saying that it is a new object is a bit strange... what if I put two rocks side by side, is it a new rock now? So for mud, earth druid manipulates the earth in it, water druid manipulates the water. I suggest chemical reaction to be the defining criterion for a new object and a new essence. And death, of course, for living things.


well, with the sand and water example, those would be two essences, because you can still pick out the sand from the water, you can seperate the two. In mud however, it doesn't work that way, and thus it has one essence. The two rock one is false, for they are next two eachother, and can be seperated. Mud is one THING, while sand in water is two. Thus sand and water have 2 essences, while mud has one.

As for the 'difficulty' thing, I am also having a hard time explaining how i want this, for how do we determine what is difficult and what is not. Mainly, i want the druids do be able to do anythign cept change the essence type, although it takes a massive amount of time, although what they do may have unforseen side effects



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 17 January 2006, 11:47:00
Well, you can just say what you just said, about mud versus sand in water. You can pick out the sand from the water, thus two objects. With you can't, thus one object. Of course, sometimes this will be hard to determine, but that is not really a problem. Druids are, after all, not Ximax, and do not need strict formal definitions.

As for what is difficult: Precise results are difficult, or, that is what I am pointing at. Just as with your hand, say, it is easy to grab something, but to grab something in a certain way might be hard. As said - it is easy to make a fire, but if you want to make a firewall, you need to be more precise, and that would require careful thinking and directing. IMHO, of course.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 17 January 2006, 15:02:00
Reading the second part of your commeny, i JUST came up with the way to explain this, and thus, shall be editing it in today.

THank you oh so very much.



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Kain Cristar on 18 January 2006, 01:52:00
I am going to smash in here with random critizism because I hate Derek that much...

Mud has different levels of water and dirt, depending on the circumstance of the mud, and if the sand is fine enough, you would have a very difficult time taking the sand out of the water. If you take a hand full of water from the surf on some of the beaches of hawaii, the feeling is much like that of taking a hand full of mud. In both you have a fine solid heterogeneously mixed with a liquid. With this fact in place, does the domain of the essence then depend on how find the peices of rock/dirt are?


Oh and in a forest dirt is mostly dead leaves, does that make dirt in forests under the plant domain?

This is just crap to bug you because im up late and feel like such is teh appropriate thing to do.

ps, Spelling correctly is never the appropriate thing to do.:clap  

You have lived a life of cruelty and atrocity, you have bathed in the blood of the innocent, you have considered every act of depravity and your corruption knows no bounds. I am the angel of justice, I am the accumulation of all of your sins. Prepare for your redemption.

-Kain Cristar, Divine Aspect



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 18 January 2006, 18:44:00
...

Damn you James.

Anyways.

Mud does have different levels, but if there is more water, then the water doesn't soak in, thus you can seperate the "mud" from the water. Thus two essences. If there is more earth, then the water soaks in, creating mud.

"dirt' never contains leaves. Mulch contains leaves. Dirt is little pieces of earth.

The Beach reference: It's still sand and water, which aren't completely mixed. Given enough time, you can seperate the two. You can't with mud.

Spelling correctly is always appropriate.

Derek wins. James loses.



Physical beauty is inextricably bound to Spiritual Beauty. If you are lacking in Spiritual Beauty, then you are lacking in Physical beauty. If you are overflowing with spiritual beauty, then you are also overflowing in physical beauty. At least in MY messed up eyes.   -Derek Coulter



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 24 January 2006, 00:28:00
EDITED UP

Any questions would be greatly appreciated, as i am trying to think on ways to expand the entry, and answering questions always helps that process.



We are the music makers, and we are the Dreamers of Dreams.
- Ode, Arthur O’Shaughnessy



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 24 January 2006, 03:13:00
Quote:
The Beach reference: It's still sand and water, which aren't completely mixed. Given enough time, you can seperate the two. You can't with mud.


Given enough time and energy (you have to put in to reverse the chaos effects), you can seperate mud as well, I would say.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 24 January 2006, 19:19:00
I disagree. the water has soaked into the earth when it is mud, and thus impossible to remove without drying it, which makes it not mud.

Unless my understanding of mud is confused



We are the music makers, and we are the Dreamers of Dreams.
- Ode, Arthur O’Shaughnessy



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 24 January 2006, 20:30:00
From a scientific point of view: unless there have been chemical reactions, it's possible to seperate it manually. In the case of mud it would be hard, but possible.

But Santharia doesn't know anything about molecules and atoms, so druids could believe differently.

Marvin Cerambit ~ Do not tease my Warg, because you are crunchy and tasteful

Need help with your new Character?
~> Click Here <~



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 25 January 2006, 03:26:00
While that may be true, I seriously doubt a compendium writer would have access to that information, seeing as how i doubt anyone in this era would be able to seperate the water from teh earth in mud without the limited technology which they have.

Although i still have trouble believing that one can manuelly seperate water and water in mud. granted the atoms haven't become one, but the earth has still absorbed the water, which is why mud has the consistensy it does.  



We are the music makers, and we are the Dreamers of Dreams.
- Ode, Arthur O’Shaughnessy



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Kalína Dalá'isyrás on 25 January 2006, 15:24:00
You can manually separate water and "mud".

All it takes is a piece of cloth. Granted it may not be the best quality of water, it is still water and separated from the dirt. Naturally, the thinner the cloth the easier the water will seep through.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 26 January 2006, 00:10:00
Hmm.

Guess i was wrong about mud being an example.

I shall find a new idea for an example.



We are the music makers, and we are the Dreamers of Dreams.
- Ode, Arthur O’Shaughnessy



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 26 January 2006, 03:35:00
Wait a minute.

The kind of mud i am talkjing about doesn't 'leak' water. For the earth has already soaked up the water. thus not leakage. I see what you meant, and it does seperate mud and water, but it does not undo the actual mud.



We are the music makers, and we are the Dreamers of Dreams.
- Ode, Arthur O’Shaughnessy



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 26 January 2006, 18:57:00
Pikel: there's always leakage, but sometimes incredibly slow. That's how underwater reservoirs come into existance btw: water slowly seeping into the earth (even through clay) until it hits stone.

But like I said, druids don't know what we know, so they might believe differently.

Marvin Cerambit ~ Do not tease my Warg, because you are crunchy and tasteful

Need help with your new Character?
~> Click Here <~



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 31 January 2006, 16:57:00
Comments

Proposals

 Errors





Overview: Druidic Magic is the magic of those who revere nature. It is the magic practiced by the six Druidic orders, and the ‘rogue order’ of Black druids. This magic takes a quite a long time to learn and  to perform, but the results are usually quite spectacular.

Prevalence: Druidic magic is, obviously, the magic of druids. Only druids, in places where druids can be found (which is primarily Northern and Southern Sarvonia), practice druidic magic.

Well, I wonder, if druids COULD practise druidic magic in places where they are not found? So why mention it extra? This paragraph is a bit meager, though I don‘t know what to add here either.

Concept/Worldview: Druidic magic is based on the druids’ belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their own essence with the essence of what they want to change, and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with it. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millennia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. An older essence has "gotten used" to being the way it is. It is set in its ways, and thus harder to merge with. A younger essence is less set in its ways, and thus easier to merge with.
What about living and not-living essences?

Basic Principles: Druids teach that all things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with it. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as its material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, it()s material counterpart changes to accommodate it. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of its counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that its material counterpart comes into existence. Example, a human essence comes into being as soon as the child is conceived. Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Each essence is as completely unique as its counterpart, but like its counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the seven sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their physical “bodies” are, but the essences are still earth based. Nothing in this world has an essence that fits into two categories. It is always has a dominant essence type. Sometimes this is confusing, for it seems that someone objects in the world could theoretically be classified as two, but this is mainly due to confusion. For example, mud is earth based, but it has water in it. However, you cannot separate the water from the earth, so it has one essence. It has more earth than water in it, and thus, it is earth essence. However, if you just put a little bit of sand in water, then the sand is still distinguishable from the water, and it would be possible to separate the two, thus it has to essences, the essence of the water, and the essence of the sand, for they are two different objects.

You need to add first as an example the little earth in water example, what would be water essence then . iif you say you never get the little colour (=earth) out of the water. Then the sand/water example

Even then - what if you dry up the mud and save the water - then your mud essence dies and a new water and earth essences comes to live? That would be the way to seperate earth from water.



With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to influence the essence of the other object, thus changing its characteristics. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. Sentient essences recognize that an essence is trying to merge with it, and resists. You said this already in the last sentence Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

Abilities: Once the merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he wants to change are one. The druid then has the chance to change what he wants. Don‘t repeat yourself  The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes. Of course, the more complex or intricate the change, the more a druid must concentrate on said change, or he may wind up with unexpected results. Making a seedling grow into a full grown tree is fairly simple, while making it grow into a tree of an odd shape or into a different color or texture than what is natural, that is a bit more complicated, and requires more concentration, and more practice.

Druids also have the ability to physically merge with their element. In Green Druids, this produces the Kroi’lon, or war dryad; a gigantic half man, half tree being. In Red druids this produces the phenomenon known as the firedance. The Druids body is completely turned to flame, but retains its humanoid shape. Gray Druids can merge with an animal of their choosing. This often makes for interesting, often bizarre and horrific, transformations; such has a half-man/half-flunki, or a half woman/half-Cartashian Bear. The Brown druids can merge with the earth, making the Sfomm-Kereen, Thergarim for stone baby, who have bodies of moveable rock, not unlike a golem. Stone baby is a misleading name although, for considering the Somm-kereen's size, very few of the people of Caelereth would consider it a 'baby'. Similar to the Brown Druids, the Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice, again, not unlike a sentient golem. The druids all retain their sense of self, and their intelligence during these transformations. These transformations last for three days, and they cannot revert back during those three days, for that would require changing one's own essence, which is not only tabooed, it is thought to be impossible. Tragically, it costs the druids their lives to use these abilities for three days, for the essences between the druid and what he physically merges with are incompatible, and thus, the being dies after a few days. Thus they are only used in a last desperate attempt to protect nature. Black and white druids do not use this ability, for White druids are too aloof to become martyrs, and Black druids do not love sentient beings enough to die for them. Considering how formidable these transformations are, the attempt often works.


There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the amount of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids. Thus, if an inexperienced druid is added to the task, the task will get done faster, but not nearly as fast as if an experienced druid was there, for experience is another factor. An experienced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how often a druid has merged with a particular essence; the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time.

Maybe try to use experienced one time less? :)  I know, it is difficult!

Limitations: However, there are limits. The main thing that must be remembered is that the druid must maintain his meditation while performing what he wants to perform. If his concentration is broken, than the merger is also broken, and any control over his element is lost. To maintain this concentration, the druid can only merge with, or attempt to merge with, one essence at any one time. Beyond that, the druid’s limits are few. He can change anything about the essence, as long as it remains based on the same category. Example: an Gray druid can do anything he wants to an animal, except give it sentience, because that would change it from an animal based essence, to a sentient being based essence.

It should be noted here, that druids are not able to change their own essences, for they have nothing to merge with. They cannot access their own essence, only the essences of others, through merging. Not only that, one would have to be a Black druid to do it (for changing oneself would usually mean changing a sentient being essence, unless one is less than sentient) and thus, there is a taboo on even trying to tinker with one’s own essence. There are stories of the elven Black druid, Mehán’chón, who figured out how to change his own essence. The stories say he made himself grow wings, and jumped off a cliff to learn how try them out. Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay, he remade acquaintanceship with the ground much sooner than he originally intended. However, for the most part, druids believe the story of Mehán’chón to be only a fairy tale.

It should be made clear that the merging process takes far too long to have any practicality whatsoever in a fight. Although, if one wanted the grand effects of an "artillery" of sorts, the druids are the people capable of fulfilling that role. Druids are capable of creating smaller effects; it just takes far too long to be practical in some cases. For example, a fire druid could burn down a tree, but it would be much faster merely to chop it down with an axe.

Training: Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that are required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of how to learn to meditate effectively which takes up a huge amount of time , and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. Black druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders, and then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient essence. They are able to do this because they already know the basics of merging with essences, even though they know not how to merge with a sentient one. Thus it takes much longer to learn to become a Black druid than any other druid. Black druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on Black druidism. Thus, there are very few Black druids in the world.

Origins: This compendium holds no concrete evidence on the actual origins of the magic of Druids, although there are several reports, stories, and myths concerning it, and depending on which druid you ask, you will likely get a different story, assuming that the druid would be willing to tell you his stories in the first place, which is not likely unless you have proven your worth to him. Elven Druids tend to tell people that Avá, Coór, and the Aeolía placed the essences, or énh’cár'ámn in their tongue, in to their physical ‘bodies’. Some druids say that the first person to access an essence was an old farm lady, who managed to merge with one of her many cats, although this story is unlikely. Some Druids say that everything started as one essence, and thus one body, and slowly split into many, until finally all the essence that exist today, exist, as do all the bodies.




*sits at her comp and meditates with furrowed brows about this entry.*

A lot of work is done, a lot of time invested, from different people and it is surely not a bad entry. Nevertheless I‘m not quite satisfied, the problem is just, I don‘t know why.....  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 01 February 2006, 16:41:00
Well, these sentences definitely won't make you famous, Pikel:

"Druidic magic is, obviously, the magic of druids. Only druids, in places where druids can be found (which is primarily Northern and Southern Sarvonia), practice druidic magic."

They're quite redundant, you know. They have a good chance of making the reader feel very dizzy... :lol  Better mention that druids work with nature and specific elements of nature. That they therefore be found e.g. in the forests or at seas etc., just say where druids can be found.

At the Concept/Worldview I've tried to come up with some more philosophical background seen from a scholars point of view (actually the concept is a lot of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche anyway). Changed passages I've marked in yellow;

Concept/Worldview. Druidic magic is based on the druids’ belief in what they call "essences". "An "essence", interpreted from a philosophical point of view of a Santharian scholar, "for a druid seems to be the substantial form of the being, giving it its individuality and identity. But an essence is more than a form. It's also a will, a will that determines the content of the essence and may connect through its own impulse with another will or essence, forming something new. To the druids this is a process of nature, a coming together with the elements. The concept seems very elven, and for sure has a lot of Xeuá sides to it." (Kechelwan of Thyslan in his speech on "Will and Being";) . The way the druids explain it, they merge their own essence with the essence of what they want to change (usually an object of nature), and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger.

How's that?


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
World Development Admin - The Forum where Worlds are born...



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 01 February 2006, 18:08:00
Pikel: On mud and all those problems. I have suggested before, that you could use chemical reaction as the deciding measure of what is an object. It solves your problems, IMHO.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 02 February 2006, 15:36:00
Well, the theory laid out in Basic Prinicples is quite shaky if you ask me.

E.g. " For example, mud is earth based, but it has water in it. However, you cannot separate the water from the earth, so it has one essence. It hames more earth than water in it, and thus, it is earth essence." - Very confusing! Seems very much as if physical quantity here determines the quality of the spirit. The theory reminds me strikingly of the whole cár'áll concept - too much, I admit, but then the major differences aren't stressed properly. So the "Each essence..." paragraph can lead to many misunderstandings. You get very physical here when you in fact want to show what's behind.

As I already tried to adjust in my previous post - what you really mean I guess with the "essence" is its "will", its orientation, its innermost purpose, its "meaning of life" simply put (also applying to plants, beasts and "elemental essences" here). I try my interpretation:

An essence in the world has a relation to the rest of the world, determining its role in it, and this role is the "will" to be (primarily) earth for example. That's why an essence cannot be water and earth together, because it has only one "alignment", at least I think that way it is much more understandable and prepares for the rest of the entry. Because the will is influenced by its surroundings, and the way you describe it, a druid can transfer his will into a tree for example, merge with it. He identifies so much with this will, that these essences become one. Thus the appearance of this essence (the physical body of a druid) simply aligns with the joined wills (tree + druid), so that the physical druid becomes the tree. Don't know if that is expressed clearly, but I have the impression that this is what you try to say, but can't get quite around to it at this paragraph.


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Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 2/1/06 22:38


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 13 February 2006, 17:22:00
Ok, Your last post confused me a great deal, so i will try to explain a little better as to what I mean by 'essence'. (another word that can be used is "soul")

the essence is basically the spiritual mirror image to it's physical counterpart. You change, one, you cxhange the other, for they are mirror images. A druid learns that he can merge his 'spirit' with the 'spirit' of other objects, and can from there, shape the other spirit, or change it, thus changing the 'spirit's' physical counterpart as well.

i am in the process of editing (this was put on the backburner while i was away, but i am returning to it full force)



**DISCLAIMER** I apologize to anyone I may have offended in the above post. I would like to assure you that was (most likely) not my goal. I would also like to assure you that the above post (again, most likely) in no way reflects the views of the Santharian boards or their webmaster, Artimidor Federkiel.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 16 February 2006, 20:58:00
Edits up

I realized that Essences and what they are is not described in the Concept / World View section, but in the basic principles section. I still do not fully understand the points that both silfer and Artimidor were trying to get across, but i can only hope that i have acknowledged them in some way, eithe rthrough the editing or my past 2 posts.



**DISCLAIMER** I apologize to anyone I may have offended in the above post. I would like to assure you that was (most likely) not my goal. I would also like to assure you that the above post (again, most likely) in no way reflects the views of the Santharian boards or their webmaster, Artimidor Federkiel.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 09 March 2006, 05:27:00
Pikel,  think you have to rethink your concept a bit, or it will never fit. I considered what you wrote forth and back, what Art wrote (thought I didn‘t reread all other comments) and came to the conclusion, that you need to differ between basic essences (like water, earth, wind?)  etc and composed. Say, a rock is a basic essence, that is easy, but a mountain? It is composed out of rock, earth, water, maybe plants and animals. It is a new essence then, unique. Your mud would work this way as well. It is a special essence in the moment the druid looks at it, but it might be a different one the next moment, for some of the water has leaked away (that might be dangerous , if a druid tries to merge with a changing essence!)

I see well, what you mean with the „mirror image“, but we could surely ad some more depth to it with adding the „will“, and the other things Art wrote. don‘t be confused, I needed quite some time as well to realise what he wanted, but then :speechless .
In your mirror image you say nothing about who influences who, the essence the body or vice versa, for you both have the same „weight“(? missing word). Art proposes to give the essence the forming, therefore the  defining power - and in fact it is like you described it yourself: If you change the essence, the body will follow. Of course it works the other way round as well - if the body is hurt, so will the essence. But the essence is the primary power. The force behind the facade(=body) .

I started to write up the concept /worldview, but can‘t finish it now (Lunch). will hopefully come to it later this day.

For now I post just the first few sentences.





***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Edited by: Talia Sturmwind  at: 3/9/06 13:25


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 March 2006, 07:29:00
Comments

Proposals





Overview: Druidic Magic is the magic of those who revere nature. It is () practiced by the six Druidic orders, and the ‘rogue order’ of Black druids. This magic takes a quite a long time to learn and to perform, but the results are usually quite spectacular.


Your first sentence does not quite fit, for though druids revere nature, other - non druids do it as well, but not all who revere nature are druids.

Aren‘t the black druids  druids as well? You might need to formulate it a bit different then.
Shouldn‘t there be a sentence about what druidic magic is?


Druidic magic requires the veneration of nature and is practised in a very special way by the Druidic orders, including the heretical one of the Black Druids.  It is based on their belief in ‚essence‘ and the ability of the sentient mind to merge with it and then to manipulate it .This  takes  quite a long time to learn as to perform, but the results are often quite spectacular.

Prevalence: Druidic magic is, obviously, the magic of druids. Only druids practice druidic magic. Druids can be found mostly throughout Northern and Southern Sarvonia, and thus, this form of magic is exclusive to that landmass, although there may be a few scattered druids on other continents.

Don‘t tell evident things, don‘t contradict you ;) .

Druids only are able to practice the merging of essences. That limits the prevalence of druidic magic to those places where druids live. That is mostly throughout  Southern Sarvonia and  parts of Northern Sarvonia, however there are some scattered communities on other continents as well. Most  prefer to live in remote areas, but some are found in cities as well.

(Please don‘t mention undeveloped parts like huge areas in Northern Sarvonia)

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 March 2006, 15:19:00
Concept/Worldview-Proposal


Druidic magic is based on the concept of the essences. According to their belief, every being, be it a human, an elf or any of the sentient races, be it a animal, a plant or even a things we would consider not alive as rocks, a mountain or the water in a lake is not just a human, an animal or a rock as it can be perceived  from outside, but is a dual being, consisting of what is visible and an inner characteristic the druids call „essence“. Both, inside as outside could be seen as mirror of each other. This "essence" might come close to what we call „soul“ within a human being, some sholars describe it as „awareness“, though it may not be confused with „consciousness“ . Some go as far as seeing it as the „will to exist“ in every creation of Avá.

The famous philosopher Kechelwan of Thyslan formulates it in his speech on "Will and Being" as follows:  "For a druid ‚essence‘ seems to be the substantial form of the being, giving it its individuality and identity. But an essence is more than a form. It's also a will, a will that determines the content of the essence and may connect through its own impulse with another will or essence, forming something new. To the druids this is a process of nature, a coming together with the elements. The concept seems very elven, and for sure has a lot of Xeuá sides to it." Not everybody is willng to follow him this far though.

The way the druids explain it, they merge their own essence with the essence of what they want to change (usually an object of nature), and from there merely will it into changing to the desired form. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 March 2006, 15:46:00
Basic Principles: Druids teach that all things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with it. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as its material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, its material counterpart changes to accommodate it. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of its counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that its material counterpart comes into existence. For example  , a human essence comes into being as soon as the child is conceived. Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

 I would propose to reformulated it - that is if you accept my proposal of the basic and composed essences:  

Since the mountain is no longer there, its essence can be said to have died - or changed into the essence of the two new mountains.

Each essence is as completely unique as its counterpart, but like its counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the seven sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their physical “bodies” are, but the essences are still earth based. Nothing in this world has an essence that fits into two categories. It is always has a dominant essence type. Sometimes this is confusing, for it seems that someone objects in the world could theoretically be classified as two, but this is mainly due to confusion. For example, if one were to mix sand and water, a new essence would not be created, there would merely be two essences next to each other, water and sand, and while their physical aspects may be mixed, their essences are still quite separate.

With this part we will get into troubles now if we follow my ideas. But there is surely a solution:
The basic essences would be of course water, fire, earth, wind, the other three could be a preferred (composed) combination of the  basics and though have their right to exist as such.  This way you evade the problem that all other categories consist mainly of water etc.. Now they would only be a composed  essence out of water, earth, whatever you wish! The sentient beings could be part wind essence, the animals perhaps part fire.. Just an idea.  

Your two sentences above contradict each other, if you have a close look:
„Nothing in this world has an essence that fits into two categories. It is always has a dominant essence type“

If there is a dominant essence, then there is another as well..

Your example with the sand could still be valid, though it would not be needed here to explain something.


With training, one  Language   learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to influence the essence of the other object, thus changing its characteristics. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it.
The exceptions to this are sentient beings.
No, that doesn‘t fit, for principally it is valid for sentient beings as well - the stronger willed can do it. The resistance comes in addition.

In principle, this merging possible for sentient beings as well. However,  it is resisted by them
(The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences.) Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.
I doubt, it can be the corporeal part, it is the essence what makes the „mind“. I would change this to that the essence is aware of it and resists.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 10 March 2006, 16:03:00
Overview: Druidic Magic is the magic of those who revere nature. It is () practiced by the six Druidic orders, and the ‘rogue order’ of Black druids. This magic takes a quite a long time to learn and to perform, but the results are usually quite spectacular.


Your first sentence does not quite fit, for though druids revere nature, other - non druids do it as well, but not all who revere nature are druids.

Aren‘t the black druids  druids as well? You might need to formulate it a bit different then.
Shouldn‘t there be a sentence about what druidic magic is?


Druidic magic requires the veneration of nature and is practised in a very special way by the Druidic orders, including the heretical one of the Black Druids.  It is based on their belief in ‚essence‘ and the ability of the sentient mind to merge with it and then to manipulate it .This  takes  quite a long time to learn as to perform, but the results are often quite spectacular.

Prevalence: Druidic magic is, obviously, the magic of druids. Only druids practice druidic magic. Druids can be found mostly throughout Northern and Southern Sarvonia, and thus, this form of magic is exclusive to that landmass, although there may be a few scattered druids on other continents.

Don‘t tell evident things, don‘t contradict you ;) .

Druids only are able to practice the merging of essences. That limits the prevalence of druidic magic to those places where druids live. That is mostly throughout  Southern Sarvonia and  parts of Northern Sarvonia, however there are some scattered communities on other continents as well.

(Please don‘t mention undeveloped parts like huge areas in Northern Sarvonia)

Concept/Worldview: Druidic magic is based on the druids’ belief in essences. The way they explain it, they merge their own essence with the essence of what they want to change, and from there merely will it into changing. This of course takes time, for they have to meditate for a time to actually make the merger. The older the essence one is trying to merge with, the longer it will take to merge with it. For example: a coastal redwood that has been standing for over two millennia will take longer to merge with than a seedling flower. An older essence has "gotten used" to being the way it is. It is set in its ways, and thus harder to merge with. A younger essence is less set in its ways, and thus easier to merge with.

I think what you describe here is not world view, or concept, but belongs either under basic principles or „How to achieve it2 and results..

Basic Principles: Druids teach that all things in this world exist on two levels; the physical level, and the spiritual level. An "essence" is the spiritual side of any given object. Nobody ever sees an essence, although with the proper training, it is possible to interact with it. It can be called a soul of sorts, but it is only as sentient as its material counterpart is. An essence is the very core of an objects existence. If an essence is changed somehow, its material counterpart changes to accommodate it. One could say that an essence is the spiritual make-up of its counterpart.

Each essence comes into being at the same exact time that its material counterpart comes into existence. Example, a human essence comes into being as soon as the child is conceived. Also, an essence can be said to have died once its material counterpart is destroyed or otherwise no longer existent. Example, a mountain has an essence. An earthquake occurs, and the mountain is split in twain. Since the "mountain" is no longer there, its essence can be said to have "died". But now there are two smaller mountains in it's place, and a completely new essence is created for each of them.

Each essence is as completely unique as its counterpart, but like its counterpart, it shares similarities as well. All Essences fit into one of the seven sub categories, which are: Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, Plant, Animal, and sentient being. For instance, a small rock's essence is as different from a mountain's essence as their physical “bodies” are, but the essences are still earth based. Nothing in this world has an essence that fits into two categories. It is always has a dominant essence type. Sometimes this is confusing, for it seems that someone objects in the world could theoretically be classified as two, but this is mainly due to confusion. For example, if one were to mix sand and water, a new essence would not be created, there would merely be two essences next to each other, water and sand, and while their physical aspects may be mixed, their essences are still quite separate.

With training, one could learn to merge one's essence with the essence of something else. If such a merging occurs, the stronger willed of the two objects will be able to influence the essence of the other object, thus changing its characteristics. If the spiritual side is changed, its physical side will follow, and vice versa. If the physical side is changed, its essence will change to accommodate it. The exceptions to this are sentient beings. The merging of the essences is resisted by sentient essences. Its corporeal counterpart has a vague notion of something trying to control him, but they are not sure what is actually going on. However, if one can get past that, then they are able to merge. If one's essence is not as strong willed as the essence it is merging with, then one might find his own essence being manipulated, instead of vice versa.

Abilities: Once the merger is actually complete, the essences of the druid and what he wants to change are one. The actual changing is quite natural. He changes something like he would move his arms, he merely wills it to change, and it changes. Of course, the more complex or intricate the change, the more a druid must concentrate on said change, or he may wind up with unexpected results. Making a seedling grow into a full grown tree is fairly simple, while making it grow into a tree of an odd shape or into a different color or texture than what is natural, that is a bit more complicated, and requires more concentration, and more practice.

Druids also have the ability to physically merge with their element. In Green Druids, this produces the Kroi’lon, or war dryad; a gigantic half man, half tree being. In Red druids this produces the phenomenon known as the firedance. The Druids body is completely turned to flame, but retains its humanoid shape. Gray Druids can merge with an animal of their choosing. This often makes for interesting, often bizarre and horrific, transformations; such has a half-man/half-flunki, or a half woman/half-Cartashian Bear. The Brown druids can merge with the earth, making the Sfomm-Kereen, Thergarim for stone baby, who have bodies of moveable rock, not unlike a golem. Stone baby is a misleading name although, for considering the Somm-kereen's size, very few of the people of Caelereth would consider it a 'baby'. Similar to the Brown Druids, the Blue Druids can merge with ice, making their bodies a sort of moveable ice, again, not unlike a sentient golem. The druids all retain their sense of self, and their intelligence during these transformations. These transformations last for three days, and they cannot revert back during those three days, for that would require changing one's own essence, which is not only tabooed, it is thought to be impossible. Tragically, it costs the druids their lives to use these abilities for three days, for the essences between the druid and what he physically merges with are incompatible, and thus, the being dies after a few days. Thus they are only used in a last desperate attempt to protect nature. Black and white druids do not use this ability, for White druids are too aloof to become martyrs, and Black druids do not love sentient beings enough to die for them. Considering how formidable these transformations are, the attempt often works.

There is a bit a contradiction here: On the one side you say, the druid‘s essence and the say, tree‘s is one, on the other side that the two essences are not compatible, isn‘t the druids essence already changed when merging with another, hasn‘t there are new essence formed already?

I would put this paragraph about the man/plant etc merger at the end of this section.



There a few factors that may reduce the amount of time needed. For instance, the greater the number of druids working towards the same goal, the faster said goal will be accomplished. This is accomplished because the experience of all the druids is put as one, and they all merge with the object at the same time, thus the time is divided between the druids. Thus, if an inexperienced druid is added to the task, the task will get done faster, but not nearly as fast as if an expert druid was there, for experience is another factor. A practiced druid gets his task done much faster than one who doesn't use his gifts. Therefore, it is quite possible for a young druid who uses his abilities often to be more skilled than an elder who rarely finds need to use his skills, even though the elder has been a part of the order for a longer amount of time. The last thing that effects the time is how often a druid has merged with a particular essence; the more a druid merges with the same essence, the faster it takes every time.

Limitations: However, there are limits. The main thing that must be remembered is that the druid must maintain his meditation while performing what he wants to perform. If his concentration is broken, than the merger is also broken, and any control over his element is lost. To maintain this concentration, the druid can only merge with, or attempt to merge with, one essence at any one time. Beyond that, the druid’s limits are few. He can change anything about the essence, as long as it remains based on the same category. For example: A Gray druid can do anything he wants to an animal, except give it sentience, because that would change it from an animal based essence, to a sentient being based essence.

Hmm, I still don‘t know, what is the difference between a merger of a gray druid with an animal where he manipulates just the animal and is himself not affected - you say, that the merger has to be complee before you can do something - and the merger with an animal to form a new beast?

It should be noted here, that druids are not able to change their own essences, for they have nothing to merge with. They cannot access their own essence, only the essences of others, through merging. Not only that, one would have to be a Black druid to do it (for changing oneself would usually mean changing a sentient being essence, unless one is less than sentient) and thus, there is a taboo on even trying to tinker with one’s own essence. There are stories of the elven Black druid, Mehán’chón, who figured out how to change his own essence. The stories say he made himself grow wings, and jumped off a cliff to learn how try them out. Unfortunately, he made the wings too small to hold his weight, and, much to Mehán’chón’s dismay, he remade acquaintanceship with the ground much sooner than he originally intended. However, for the most part, druids believe the story of Mehán’chón to be only a fairy tale.

It should be made clear that the merging process takes far too long to have any practicality whatsoever in a fight. Although, if one wanted the grand effects of an "artillery" of sorts, the druids are the people capable of fulfilling that role. Druids are capable of creating smaller effects; it just takes far too long to be practical in some cases. For example, a fire druid could burn down a tree, but it would be much faster merely to chop it down with an axe.

I‘m not sure, if manipulating one‘s own essence is not possible - it may be dangerous, very, but this taboo seems to me like a ban on something which is possible but should not be done out of ethical reasons  - don‘t you think so ;)  

Training: Of course, one must learn how to do all this, and to get training one must first find a druid (which is a task in and of itself.) If the druid decides that the hopeful has the personality and drive and love that are required, then the druid trains him. This training mainly consists of how to learn to meditate effectively which takes up a huge amount of time, and learning how to merge with an essence that is so unlike that of the druids. Black druids however, must first become a druid of one of the other six orders, and then learn by themselves how to merge with a sentient essence. They are able to do this because they already know the basics of merging with essences, even though they know not how to merge with a sentient one. Thus it takes much longer to learn to become a Black druid than any other druid. Black druids are far too distrustful to take on apprentices, and the other six orders hold a taboo on Black druidism. Thus, there are very few Black druids in the world.

Please add something how long it actually takes before one is a druid .

Origins: This compendium holds no concrete evidence on the actual origins of the magic of Druids, although there are several reports, stories, and myths concerning it, and depending on which druid you ask, you will likely get a different story, assuming that the druid would be willing to tell you his stories in the first place, which is not likely unless you have proven your worth to him. Elven Druids tend to tell people that Avá, Coór, and the Aeolía placed the essences, or énh’cár'ámn in their tongue, in to their physical ‘bodies’. Some druids say that the first person to access an essence was an old farm lady, who managed to merge with one of her many cats, although this story is unlikely. Some Druids say that everything started as one essence, and thus one body, and slowly split into many, until finally all the essence that exist today, exist, as do all the bodies.

I think you should out Coor , for he is destructive and would not form anything. Maybe even Ava, depends abit on how many elven druids you have. Otherwise your human druids would know about -ava, and I don‘t know, if we want to have this.



Pikel - we will finish this entry ..somewhen ;)  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 18 March 2006, 02:00:00
Ok, my weekend shall be devoted to editing this, and finishing my Masterwork (which nears completion, after almost being deleted due to computer hating me)



**DISCLAIMER** I apologize to anyone I may have offended in the above post. I would like to assure you that was (most likely) not my goal. I would also like to assure you that the above post (again, most likely) in no way reflects the views of the Santharian boards or their webmaster, Artimidor Federkiel.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Pikel on 13 April 2006, 15:51:00
OK Al edits up and in LIME!!

Talia: about this

Quote:
Hmm, I still don‘t know, what is the difference between a merger of a gray druid with an animal where he manipulates just the animal and is himself not affected - you say, that the merger has to be complete before you can do something - and the merger with an animal to form a new beast?


the latter is an actual PHYSICAL merger, as is mentioned in the paragraph regarding the druids turning into the half man half beast thingies. THe former is all done with the druids mind.



**DISCLAIMER** I apologize to anyone I may have offended in the above post. I would like to assure you that was (most likely) not my goal. I would also like to assure you that the above post (again, most likely) in no way reflects the views of the Santharian boards or their webmaster, Artimidor Federkiel.



Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 14 April 2006, 14:02:00
Will get to it later, dear apprentice.. :)

Edit: Oh, this is sitting long here, but I push it up now and start on rereading it, hopefully I'm able to finish it as well this night. Pikel, could be, that you get more comments tomorrow, for I always dream my best ideas :)

No critics on the basic things accepted anymore - this thingy is far too much advanced! (Just a warning!)

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Edited by: Talia Sturmwind  at: 5/29/06 12:09


Title: Re: Druidic Magic (Rough Draft)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 31 May 2006, 16:26:00
I went throuhg it again Pikel, but I'm too tired now to post.  I haven't seen , that you have addressed all the things I mentioned, nor told me, why you didn't like them, nor have you said anything to what Art proposed - and which I reformulated for an easier understanding.

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"