Santharian Development

Organization and General Discussions => Active Projects => Topic started by: so orril miesefer on 21 December 2006, 06:05:22



Title: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: so orril miesefer on 21 December 2006, 06:05:22
Measure: Weight, volume.

1 Starbright  = 12 Ods ~ of the clean material. 
1 Ingot = 12 Ods of the metal ready to work with it.

Misc. Minerals (/per 12 Ods of raw material in New Santhala):

Ash Salt --- Common --- 1 San
Bloodstone Mineral --- Rare --- 10 Silverbards
Charcoal --- Common --- 1 San
Magather and drake eggs --- Uncommon. --- 1 Copperbard
Quartz ---- Common --- 4 Sans
Uruyant --- Rare --- 8 Goldbards.
Xazuran --- Uncommon --- 3 Copperbards

Gems (/per starbright in New Santhala):

Amethyst Small  --- Uncommon --- 3 Copperbards
Aquamarine --- Uncommon --- 4 Copperbards
Carnelion --- Rare --- 3 Silverbard
Diamond --- Rare --- 6 Goldbard
Emerald --- Rare --- 4 Goldbards
Garnet --- Rare --- 4 Silverbard
Opal --- Rare --- 5 Silverbards
Pearl --- Rare --- 3 Silverbard
Peridot --- Uncommon --- 2 Silverbards
Ruby --- Rare --- 4 Goldbard
Sapphire --- Rare --- 4 Goldbard
Topaz  --- Rare --- 3 Silverbards
Turquoise  --- Rare --- 2 Silverbards

Lesser Gemstones (/per starbright in New Santhala):
Agate --- Uncommon --- 3 Copperbards
Citrine --- Uncommon --- 3 Copperbards
Moonstone --- Rare --- 2 Silverbards
Hematite --- Common --- 1 Copperbard
Jade --- Uncommon --- 1 Silverbard
Jasper --- Uncommon --- 2 Copperbards
Lapis lazuli --- Common --- 1 Copperbard
Malachite --- Uncommon --- 2 Copperbards
Obsidian --- Common --- 1 Copperbard
Pyrite --- Common --- 1 Copperbard
Spinel --- Uncommon --- 5 Copperbards
Tourmaline --- Uncommon --- 4 Copperbards


Metals & crystals (/per ingot in New Santhala) [in raw state]:

Aurium --- Rare --- 2 Goldbard
Iron --- Common --- 2 Silverbards
Fyrite --- Rare --- 3 Goldbards
Herne --- Common --- 2 Copperbards
Ithildin --- Rare --- 2 Goldbards
Malthanune --- Uncommon --- 3 Silverbards
Mithril --- Rare --- 15 Goldbards
Orcrystal --- Rare --- 4 Goldbards
Copper --- Common --- 1 Copperbard
Silver--- Uncommon --- 1 Silverbard
Gold --- Rare --- 1 Goldbard
Brass--- Common --- 3 Copperbards.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 December 2006, 06:32:23
'raw state' won't work - should be 'pure state'.

Gold in the 'raw' is incorporated in its ore, with plenty of rock waste, for example.

What you need to have is a pure form, in a standard or close to standard weight.

And crystals should be separate and have a 'range' , because while you can cast an exact size/weight of metal, you wouldn't want to whack a chunk off a lovely cluster of orcalescent crystals just to get it to one starbright exactly...  yes, I know we can do fractions, if not decimals - but crystals will also vary in their purity, brightness, flaws, etc.   So Crystal A may weigh exactly the same as Crystal B of the same material, but be rutilated - shot through with striations and interior 'flaws', and thus be less desirable to buyers. 

I'd also be tempted to do the same for gemstones - give a range.  Makes it much more realistic, and allows both developers for specific regions as well as roleplayers some leeway.

Thus:  "Agate -  2-5 copperbards per starbright"

What do you think?


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: so orril miesefer on 21 December 2006, 11:01:09
Sure, though this will take some time, I work in general with raw materials or in its most basic state IRL, that's why I could tell prices in aproximations... So, you want the things procesed, not the materials to make the thing, like a pulished Gem ready to be incerted in a thing or Gold ready to be melted into gold bars.

Just resolve that little question for me, and I'll have the new price list.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Twen Araerwen on 21 December 2006, 11:08:37
That is exactly what she is saying I believe So Orril. Though she wants a variable value for gemstones as no two gems are exactly the same in quality. In ancient times it is unlikely that any two gems were exactly the same at all. Most similiar stones of today are man-made. Sorry for jumping in here Judith, just trying to be of help. ~Bows gracefully and departs~


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: so orril miesefer on 21 December 2006, 11:41:09
You are welcome, thanks for telling me.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Twen Araerwen on 21 December 2006, 11:47:02
In essence she is looking for the "refined" state of a material IMHO.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 December 2006, 13:08:25
Well, I think we'd better make a decision about WHERE the valuation takes place.

This is really a good point - do we list:

one sack of mined but unprocessed silver ore - X Silverbards
one ingot of refined silver - X Silverbards
one silver necklace weighing Y - X Silverbards

?  Or just leave it at defining the ingot's market price and let people try to figure out the rest by extrapolation as they might need it? 

In other words, do we need to examine every resource we have from starting point to finished product?

I guess I was oversimplifying; my original concept was based upon a 'market-ready product', if that makes sense.  What would you expect to pay for a Thurgo-whatsit-ingy in the stalls of New Santhala's Street Market, in other words?

Obviously we need both prices for a sack of Golden Rain grain AND for a loaf of Golden Rain bread.  We also need prices for a live cow and a slaughtered side of beef...  (starts tearing out her hair and chewing on the end of her quill)


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Wanderer on 21 December 2006, 15:53:48
Not to mention that you want both the low end and the high end prices :)
And yes, you would want to know what everything costs from raw material to finished product. That way you get a "real" price, since every step in the chain adds value to it. So i.e. a sack of golden grain might cost 50 sans, and a baker can make 50 loafs of bread out of it, meaning that a loaf would cost 1 sans, plus something for the baker.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 21 December 2006, 19:31:21
Just a note - these are the prizes in new Santhala, right?
Pearls might be cheaper then, with a big pearl "industry" not too far away (eastcoast)


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Wanderer on 21 December 2006, 19:33:35
Santharian prices yes, maybe with a base line for "real" prices


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: so orril miesefer on 22 December 2006, 07:17:12
Judith please no, that would be like asking to know how many things can be made with gold, in how many things can be incorporated amethysts...

So, we can say:

Gold ore (with impurities and all that) --- X
Gold (purified) --- X plus something due the purification costs.

Amethyst raw stone --- X
Amethyst processed --- X plus processing costs.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Bard Judith on 22 December 2006, 11:04:54
That's correct, Orril - don't worry.  We've been discussing this in two threads and the other one is farther along.

No, I wouldn't have entries for

'Cup, Golden'
'Cup, Wooden'
'Cup, Tin'
'Cup, Horn'
etc. etc. ad infinitum.

The AVERAGE product should be listed though, as it is in a chandler's shop...

so

"Drinking Cup: turned from wood, holding about a 1/2 gill of liquid, undecorated - 8 sans"

Then people can extrapolate as to how much a horn cup or tin cup might cost - but the most commonly available drinking vessel would probably be wooden, so it gets listed.

Make sense?


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Wanderer on 22 December 2006, 15:31:36
This method has an advantage: If we have that average product, we can always at that time decide to add some more products. i.e. Lets have the normal wooden cup first and when we have time to spare (somewhere around 2010 or so) we can expand on that list for things like the golden cup and what not


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 22 December 2006, 21:27:36
Quote
Somewhere around 2010 or so

ROFL.. as if!

I fully expect to be able to spend the next ten years alone on completing the one bit of Nybelmar i'm having as a main development region.. and that does include the amount of work i will be able to pile on the backs of my unsuspecting Apprentices in due time. :P


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: so orril miesefer on 23 December 2006, 11:22:57
Oh I c, so I can say:

Gold necklase: common gold made necklase- x
 and so on.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Niccoli on 23 December 2006, 11:38:54
common gold necklace. orril. just making the correction.


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: so orril miesefer on 23 December 2006, 11:49:29
Ty Niccoli


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Niccoli on 23 December 2006, 11:53:11
so you'd have common Tankard, pint, pewter 30 coppers (i've no idea if that's accurate)


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: Bard Judith on 23 December 2006, 16:03:36
No, actually you wouldn't want to list all the possible types of jewelry.

That would be an entry all on its own.  We do have a specific measurement unit ( the Starbright, is it?) for gems and precious metals, and it's a flexible assessment.

A pure gold necklace would simply be assessed by weight for starters (that's the cost of the material itself) - then the smith or jeweler who made it would add on his asking price for the craftsmanship.  Since that's a very subjective standard, it's difficult to measure - and certainly it's not possible to just say a 'common gold necklace!' as there is no such thing!

Peasants don't wear gold, even most wealthy merchants can't afford chains of the stuff, so anything made in gold would have to be small (gold is weighty) and crafted with care (gold is soft) and sold to the court or nobles (gold is expensive).

Once you think about all the possibilities when you mix metals, add in gemstones, etc... I don't want to even consider a list that goes like the following:

TIARA: silver, set with amethysts - x silverbards
TIARA: silver, set with emerauds - y silverbards
TIARA: silver, set with rubies - z goldbards
TIARA: gold, set with diamants - q goldbards
CROWN:  gold, elven fretwork - p goldbards
CROWN:  mithril, dwarven antique - n mithrenes
.
.
.

You do see how ludicrous that could get very quickly....  For one thing, the economy is not going to be based around what one unique tiara (custom-made for a specific duchess, because you don't buy tiaras 'off the rack' as t'were) might cost, is it?  It's going to be fueled by all those straw withes of Taenish eggs and all those willow baskets of Loibl bread and the pannikins of milch and the sacks of ore and the polished treenware, all changing hands...

So - I'd stick to the ore unprocessed, the pure form of the metal in a standard weight ingot, and the cut gemstone at a standard weight or starbright measurement...


Title: Re: Santharia Economy team project. Minerals in general.
Post by: so orril miesefer on 03 January 2007, 12:48:24
Updated, the list didn't changed a lot, but there is, mainly corrected prices and stated the Starbright and the ingot weight.