Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Magic in the Lands of Caelereth => Topic started by: Eferno Tir on 13 February 2007, 05:07:32



Title: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 13 February 2007, 05:07:32
"O hope that all thy limbs be broke,
Lest you become mere ash and smoke
For life's own sake, I pray, O Sire
Thou shaly not feel the Wyvern's Fire..."

Truly, it is better to live a poor life than to die by the Wyvern's Roar: if you are lucky, the fire will kill you almost instantly. Or it may take much time.
However, low-level mages attempting this have breathed not fire but uncomfortably humid air...

Spell Effect: The mage gathers fire ouns within their lungs, which is expelled when they feel ready to release it, as a hot ray of fire.

Casting Procedure: The mage utters the formula, and gathers the energy within them, until they can hold no more. It is essential that the mage does not breathe during this, lest their breath burn them. Then, they open their mouth, and the energy is expelled faster than they breathe, in one powerful jet.

Spell level: begins Level 2, but fire is unproduceable until level 4

Magical Formula: not added yet

Focus/Target: Anything in front of the mage.
Reagents: Although risky, sulphur can be placed on the tongue after uttering the formula.

Magical School: Fire magic

Spell Class: Sphere III, class 3: Pyrokinesis

Range: Up to five peds

Casting Time: As long as the mage can hold their breath.

Duration: Up to seven blinks

Counter Measures/Enhancing Measures: The fire cannot pierce metal or stone, and causing the mage to breathe would result in the spell's premature effect falling on them. The fire's strength greatly increases with the mage's level.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Arceon Barrurbeleth on 13 February 2007, 05:13:15
Doesn't the hot air burn you throat and mouth while you are breading?


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Nsikigan Ho´Tonanese Yourth on 13 February 2007, 05:16:58
breathing, not breeding I hope... mabye the spell also makes your throat fire proof? So a mage launches a fireball down your throat and you cast the spell, not only are you safe, but he is GONE!


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 13 February 2007, 05:21:38
It would be safer to draw fire ounia to your own breath path....


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Arceon Barrurbeleth on 13 February 2007, 05:32:42
... so when you breathe you cast the ounia at great speed at the target.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 13 February 2007, 08:10:24
How is this different then fireball?  You are just making the source a new location.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Clurion on 13 February 2007, 08:20:40
Actually Drasil, the difference is actually the fact that fireball, as it name suggests, is more of a ball of fire which means one shot. While this spell on the otherhand, is a constant flame more like a Firebreath, which could in some ways be nicknames "Wyvern's Roar". So yes technically their is a difference while this one is more constant and close range.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Clurion on 13 February 2007, 08:22:00
Also, why is a level 2 spell if its shpere 3?


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Mina on 13 February 2007, 11:37:09
Producing the flame just outside your mouth would be perfectly fine.  Rather showy though, because it could just as easily be produced at your hands or something, but still, nothing wrong with that.  Producing the flame inside your lungs...ARE YOU INSANE?!

Not breathing is no protection against having our lungs completely burninated.  If you gather enough Fire ounia, which it seems you do because you are trying to produce a flame, you get a flame.  Unless you make the ounia express some other property.  But even doing that so that your spell does not kill you is making it needlessly complicated. 


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 14 February 2007, 02:41:04
Inside, the fire is contained in Ahm, it only becomes Soor on leaving the Mage's mouth, because it is the air contact which does it. Breathing in would cause air contact inside you, as you so perfectly put it and, to quote Trogdor, "burninating" them. The lungs are used as an adequate storage space for the ahm ounia, and less energy is lost than holding it out in the cold. The flame is produced outside the mouth, from energy stored inside.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Falethas Whisperwind on 14 February 2007, 05:16:00
...Inside, the fire is contained in Ahm, it only becomes Soor on leaving the Mage's mouth, because it is the air contact which does it. Breathing in would cause air contact inside you, as you so perfectly put it and, to quote Trogdor, "burninating" them...

If, as you say, contact with wind ounía switches internal fire ounía in the passive áhm state into the active soór state, then every single breath we took would cause our lungs to burst into flame.  We can't just say that this effect would only occur during the working of the Wyvern's Roar invocation; there aren't, as far as I know, exceptions to the natural laws of the Caelerethian universe.

Did that make any sense?  :undecided:


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 14 February 2007, 06:36:50
Yeah, it made sense, and is true, I guess... could that be what creates body-heat in Caelreth? Makes sense... ish...
Yeah, it would only cause mild warmth usually, it's the concentration of the ouns that makes it so strong: usually, there's barely any fire in the air, but here, there's tons of the stuff. That's why it works.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 18 February 2007, 00:22:23
Also Wyverns (Demon Drakes) are found on Nybelmar...so I assume that it would have a different name unless created by a Nybelmarian 'exchange student'....


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: xerampelinae deicida on 18 February 2007, 04:22:08
If the fire comes from the same place that creates body heat would someone feel a chill from doing this?

It would make sense if the spells effect increased with lung capacity some mages with a higher lung capacity might find this spell more effective then other fire spells.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Mina on 18 February 2007, 12:46:59
Body heat is bsically due to the presence of Fire ounia expressing the heat property, which would be nearly all of them, most likely.  There's no place that creates body heat.  It is not impossible to feel a chill if you use too much of your own Fire ounia for spells, but that is unlikely to happen.  Fire ounia make up about a quarter of the ounia in any living being, and using enough to have such an effect might be quite dangerous. 

Fire ounia does not need contact with Wind ounia to produce fire.  What is needed is merely a high enough concentration of Fire ounia.  While this is not likely to happen naturally without the presence of Wind, it is not too hard for a Fire mage to force Fire ounia close together to produce flames in places where no Wind is present, I think.  I don't see much point to doing that though. 

As you have observed, concentrating Fire ounia at a point causes its influence at that point to become so great that a flame will be produced at that point, most likely in the form of a fireball.  However, as I have pointed out, doing that in your lungs is a very bad idea.  It is of course possible to prevent this by keeping the links between the Fire ounia ahm or make them not express properties like heat, but that is just making things needlessly complicated as I've mentioned.  It would be so much simpler to concentrate the Fire ounia just outside one's mouth (if you want to give the appearance of breathing fire), or a more conventional place such as your hands. 


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 20 February 2007, 00:59:42
What about my name change request?

EDIT: Sorry! After consultation of the bestiary it seems that only the Locust Wyvern inhabits Nybelmar, name change uneccesary...


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 20 February 2007, 19:34:01
Sorry, only just got back from London and haven't read replies.
Wyvern is just an old and unused name for dragons, like Wyrm. Dragon's Roar seemed a little cliched, and Wyrm's Roar could be misinterpreted.
OK, as for the non-internal-burning, think searing: the fire itself can protect from heat. So, if a protective layer were to line the lungs, the fire itself could provide the protection.
The energy doesn't come from within the mage: he/she must fing an external source. A good one, if they're gonna pack a punch on one lung full.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 20 February 2007, 20:26:22
Quote
OK, as for the non-internal-burning, think searing: the fire itself can protect from heat. So, if a protective layer were to line the lungs, the fire itself could provide the protection.

That would be possible, but it would make the spell needlessly complicated and at most something a mage does to show off (and even then it's unlikely because of the danger) because a simple fireball does the exact same thing and is far more easy and far less dangerous to cast.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 22 February 2007, 01:17:52
It is a very showy spell, but that's the idea: it seems even worse than it actually is, and, as long as the user is strong enough, no-one lives to say otherwise. It's basically a more scary version of Rays of Heat, or one for magi with no fingers, which, due to a dangerous lifestyle, is quite likely.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 22 February 2007, 08:48:43
What I think Marvin is getting at is why even bother?  While its a cool concept and would be interesting to watch at a street fair, the dangerous properties, life threatening status, and extreme diffculty would cause the spell to soon fade from existence as magi passed by it.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Jeréth Ancalídormis on 22 February 2007, 12:32:37
i find this all fine and dandy but you must explain it a little more. add more detail, if you would be so kindly. oh and another thing, move the fire producing to the mouth or lips, not the lungs.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 22 February 2007, 19:43:25
The fire becomes between the lips, but the energy is stored Ahm and harmless within the lungs, therefore no chance of internal burnage and no need for protective measures. The mage converts it to Soor as it leaves his/her lips. So there is no real fire until it leaves the mouth, just gathered energies. It's only dangerous if you breathe out, as it's that conscious action which causes it, and, as long as they breathe out of their mouth, there's no danger there either, as it will be released as normal. Breathing in, looking back on other comments, would do nothing but add air to the mix, which was already there, what with breathing in beforehand.
I know what I'm trying to explain, I just can't, effectively.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 23 February 2007, 02:07:41
I never said it wasn't possible, but why would a mage gather fire in his lungs first and then get it out again when he could just as easily gather it in front of him? It's like moving everything you want in your attic to your basement first and as soon as it's all there start moving it to the attic. The spell is dangerous (even if it's possible to do so while remaining unharmed) and needlessly complicated (it can be done way easier and more powerful) and as such I fail to see why anyone sane would try this.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 23 February 2007, 02:57:55
It's somewhere to store it: it's more like filling up a water-gun then shooting it, or lifting the blade of a guillotine: you're putting it back with much more force and much more purpose, and you choose where it goes. Gathering it on the outside means that while it's out there, it's warming the air and losing energy already; inside's more efficient. Plus, you've got a higher lung capacity than external holding ability:breathe all the way out, then breathe in really deeply, and think how much air you just took in. Then, cup your hands around some air. Compare.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Mina on 23 February 2007, 03:41:34
Quote
It's somewhere to store it: it's more like filling up a water-gun then shooting it, or lifting the blade of a guillotine: you're putting it back with much more force and much more purpose, and you choose where it goes.

Magic does not work this way.  You do not have to store ounia or anything like that.  What you propose isn't going to make the spell anymore effective.  It'd just make it more difficult and cause you to have to spend more energy casting it. 

Quote
Gathering it on the outside means that while it's out there, it's warming the air and losing energy already; inside's more efficient.

Incorrect.  You are assuming that there is a transfer of energy between the Fire ounia and the air, which is not the case.  The presence of Fire ounia in the car'all of the air would simply make it warm air, or hot air depending on the situation.  Or, if the concentration of Fire ounia is high enough, fire. 

You also seem to have the idea that you need to 'store' the ounia for a time before releasing them.  This is not the case.  Gathering Fire ounia at a point will produce a flame there.  This can be done fairly quickly, almost instantly in fact, if you're not attempting a particularly big spell.  Due to certain properties of Fire, it should be naturally be inclined to movement, so all you have to do is supply a direction.  Doing so will cause the flame to shoot off in the direction.  This is a basic fireball spell. 

Creating a stream of fire is not so different.  You merely continue to gather Fire ounia while at the same time 'releasing' what you have gathered the instant before.  This can be maintained for as long as the mage is able to concentrate on it. 

Quote
Plus, you've got a higher lung capacity than external holding ability:breathe all the way out, then breathe in really deeply, and think how much air you just took in. Then, cup your hands around some air. Compare.
I don't see how this is in any way relevant.  Ounia are not physical, so why should the physical capacity of something matter?  In any case, you do not store ounia, not in the way you seem to be thinking. 


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 23 February 2007, 07:09:34
Sod it, I fail again.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 23 February 2007, 10:24:39
In addition, you completely ignored the impracticality of the spell that I mentioned above.  A decent explanation as to why it even exists would definatly be in order IMHO.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 25 February 2007, 23:52:15
I didn't ignore it at all! I didn't have an answer, so I didn't give one. I realise the impracticality of it, which is why I posted my last post. Obviously I don't understand the concept of the magic systm enough to bring up a useful idea, as my last two turned out to be suicidal, useless and over-complicated, so I don't see the point answering questions I don't know the answers to. If I were to ask you what protons were made of, would you answer?


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 26 February 2007, 02:36:12
IMHO, its not that you don't know enough about the magic system (I had no idea about Ahm and Soor until a month after my first attempts) but that you try to do overcomplicated, unpractical things.  Try starting with something basic, such as something that deals with the expression of a property ect.  As you do more and more skills you get a better understanding of what to attempt and what not.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 26 February 2007, 23:31:48
ok, cheers. Someone mentioned drawing the ouns o the breath path; this actually sounds a good idea to me, as, what with breath being fairly warm, I assume it's fairly fich in fire ounia already, so drawing more to it would result in a pretty strong flame by comparison. Also, it gives it the directionality it needs, doesn't risk burning your organs to the point where they look like a barbcued mis-steak. The mage would just need to say the formula, take a deep breath, and lo and behold!, carbonised adversary. Of course, I may be talking rubbish again, but it's better than turning magi into ash heaps.
What effect would doing the same with wind do? One huge gust of wind?


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 27 February 2007, 00:43:52
Hmmm....For that to work, you'd either need to centralize all the fire ounia from the breath into one location, causing an intesification in their properties, and a relitively small, controlled flame, or you'd have to draw fire ounia from the environment into the "breath stream" for it to igninte, IMHO.  The second would probably create much grander effects but would be more difficult to cast.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 03 March 2007, 20:35:20
The idea I meant was to draw all the available fire ouns from everywhere into the breath stream, giving all the air breathed out the properties of heat and light. Now, this is also complex, but I know the basic spell must be possible, otherwise drakes wouldn't be able to do the same thing. Now, I'm out of ideas, so I'm depending on quite a lot of help: if drawing it to the breath stream would be complex and not very useful, and building the fire in the lungs would be suicide, what about just usin the point right between the lipse as the spell's point of origin, and just shooting the beam straight from there? Simple enough, useful if the mage has no fingers or is tied up, explains dragons... or, option b, I'm talking nonsense again, but I think this one was suggested earlier by someone with a hell of a lot more experience than me. AKA any experience at all, but... I can't see a problem with this, but I couldn't with the others either.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Falethas Whisperwind on 03 March 2007, 22:28:47
...but I know the basic spell must be possible, otherwise drakes wouldn't be able to do the same thing.

Drakes, as far as I'm aware, don't need magick to create their fiery breath.  It is merely a natural process within their bodies which allows them to do this, am I right?


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 05 March 2007, 03:40:27
Yup.  Drakes don't use magic to summon forth fire.


Title: Re: Wyvern's Roar
Post by: Eferno Tir on 09 March 2007, 01:18:33
OK, so just inspired by a drake doing so.