Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Magic in the Lands of Caelereth => Topic started by: Decipher Ziron on 17 August 2007, 03:26:26



Title: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 17 August 2007, 03:26:26
Dearest Masters and Mistresses of Magic,

I would like to draw your attention to a proposal for a form of magic found on the Continent of Nybelmar- Blood Magic. It revolves around the use of the bodies inner energy- Sanryu- which is similar to the chi concept. The Sanryu concept entails that all Bodily functions are performed purely by the use of Sanryu flowing around the body.  Blood Magic (at lower levels) is channeling your own Sanryu to certain parts of your body to increase strength, agility or endurance. One can also focus their Sanryu flow onto a wound to increase the rate of healing. At higher levels, Blood Magic allows you to increase these abilities- but it requires Sanryu from an outside source. I have prepared a rough entry on Sanryu, and now I will post some extracts from which may help explain my idea for blood magic:

Basic Concept

Sanryu itself is present in all animals and sentient beings. It is not present in plant life and various other types of vegetation due to the fact that Sanryu is found in the blood. Some scholars though have hypothesised that plants do contain some Sanryu, but much less than is noticeable by a crimson reader or to be used to decent effect.

Sanryu is a requirement of life. All bodily functions are only able to take place due to the usage of Sanryu energy. This is everything from the lowliest blink to sprinting leagues at a time. Without Sanryu no movement is possible, and eventually, if you are starved of Sanryu for too long, you will die.

Some of the more learned members of Marmarran society have suggested that people are born with varying amounts of Sanryu, which directly affects their life expectancy as well as their abilities to perform physically. These ideas though are normally rejected since there is no evidence to suggest that anybody has more Sanryu than anyone else.

Sanryu Focusing and Manipulation

Most who dabble in the nuances and complexities of the Sanryu concept are the so-called ‘Sanriers’. Anyone who can to any extent control their own Sanryu can give themselves the title of Sanrier, though to be truly accepted as one you must be a member of the Sanrier’s Guild and Institute or a member of the selective ‘Red Sisters’ cult.

Based on the idea of all bodily functions being performed using Sanryu, Sanriers take this to the next step. They increase the amount of Sanryu used in a certain function to perform, in some cases, things beyond human possibility. A Sanrier can focus their Sanryu to strengthen their muscles, increase their speed and rates of healing or sharpen their senses among other things. In addition to this they are able to direct their Sanryu to specific organs, which allows them to survive in amazing circumstances. They can increase their lung capacity, speed up their heart rate or overwork their liver to survive poisoning. There are some, a rare elite, who are able to direct Sanryu to very specific points on their body, or even in extremely rare cases project it outside of their own body and use it for offensive or beneficial purposes.

There are also amazing feats that very advanced and well-trained Sanriers are able to perform. In fact there is one act that is almost never performed known as ‘The Pillars of Revival’. It involves at least four individuals sacrificing all of their Sanryu to resurrect an individual person. This kills the Sanriers involved.

As well as ‘The Pillars of Revival’ another well-known feat that very advanced Sanriers can perform is the ‘Unconditional Vengeance’, which allows a Sanrier to bear a fatal wound for a period of time (depending on the power of the Sanrier) before they die by continuing the Sanryu flow.

The Dangers of Blood Magic

Blood Magic, though amazing in itself, can cause those who attempt acts far greater than their ability horrible fates. The first and most common is ‘Sanryu Flood’. This is when an individual attempts to absorb too much Sanryu for their mortal frame to bear. This leads the flesh to overwork itself, and it tears under the stress. Muscles ripping, bones breaking, blindness, deafness, Paralysis and various other horrid symptoms can come about in situations like these.

Another is known as ‘Sanryu Thirst’, or within the Sanrier community ‘The Thirst’. It is when the body becomes too used to unnatural amounts of Sanryu, and requires much more than a normal person to function. They seem to develop an addiction to Sanryu, which has terrible withdrawal symptoms. They will firstly slowly lose their mind. They will hallucinate, develop ticks and shivering and have various aversions or extreme anxieties. Then their body will suffer, every part of their feeble flesh ‘aging’ at an incredible rate, until the body can no longer support itself, leading the victim to die a painful death.

A development of ‘The Thirst’ is that of ‘The Lust’. This is when a person subject to ‘The Thirst’ manages to secure sources of larger Sanryu, but then joins a very peculiar relationship with it. They seem to get amazing rushes of ecstasy from absorbing Sanryu, though this constant absorption overworks the body and can lead to ‘Sanryu Flooding’.

Sanryu Absorption

Though low-level Blood Magic is performed using only the Sanryu of the individual, many of the more powerful feats are only performable using stores of Sanryu the body does not contain. As such, to gain control of more Sanryu, Sanryu absorption occurs. This is when Sanryu from an independent source is taken into the body of an individual (and can be used in the same way as their own). The source of Sanryu is normally that of blood extracted from the body, though it can be a living creature (or human).  There are two main ways of doing this: Channel Absorption and Raw Absorption.
Channel Absorption is the most complicated to learn (but normally preferred in favour to Raw absorption). It involves the individual touching the blood (normally with hands but any body part normally works) and then draining it of its energy. Though nobody outside of the Sanrier community knows explicitly certain how this works, it is thought that the Sanrier extends their flow outside of their body and picks up the Sanryu and then draws it back in. The analogy for this normally is ‘Like a frog shooting its tongue at flies’. 

The second, simplest method is raw absorption. In Raw absorption, the Sanrier consumes the source and the Sanryu added to their flow. In the case of blood, it is drunk by the Sanrier to gain the energy within it. This is much more effective as it is a lot easier to gain a higher amount of Sanryu from a small amount of raw absorption in comparison to the volume needed in Channel absorption.

As the above indicates- Blood Magic will have no spells (so no need to develop a template ECT. for this) and  will not consist beyond a few entries.

I hope this proposal is accepted,

Decipher Ziron

I would like some input on the idea which I welcome from anyone...



Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Fox on 17 August 2007, 05:18:09
Okay, a few comments.

First off... part of this reminds me a lot of an older member's magic system idea that they never fully developed. His name was Theodoros (or something like that), and the magic system he had wanted to develop was known as 'Exastri'. It was very similar in that it was used to strengthen the body by tapping into an inner energy source. I'll try and find some of the old threads for it if they still exist.


Secondly... some of this type of magic is very similar to vampirism. In the past we've disallowed most vampire-relating things, so I don't know how well it will sit (Rayne's Blood Eye Cult made it in, so this probably could, too). Basically what I see here is a more ritualized form of the 'Blood Buff' from Vampire: The Masquerade (using blood to augment their strength, agility, reflexes, healing, etc). That being said we do have other White Wolf elements that have made it on to the site (the Ulvur are very, very similar to the Werewolves from Werewolf: The Apocalypse), and in this instance it's a pretty minor reference... but just throwing it out there to see if other people are fine with it.


From a Ximaxian point of view, nothing here seems overly 'out of place', we have some Ximaxian spells that achieve the same effects, so I don't see anything wrong in that regard (not saying the entry has to be written from a Ximaxian standpoint, just that its system could be reproduced by Ximaxian scholars if they so wished with the Ximaxian system).




Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 17 August 2007, 08:57:35
Aren't new magic systems still banned? is this not the reason Coren's magical system didn't make on the site yet?

How would it fit to Coren's magic?


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Fox on 17 August 2007, 09:21:31
New magic systems are 'technically' banned but as with other banned things, sometimes projects get accepted despite the ban. Usually depending on how required the magic is for certain tribes and how well done/researched the entry is (Ulvur for instance which made it past the races ban and Shadowmancy which made it past the magic ban (albeit shadowmancy was an already integrated magic system that simply had yet to be expanded on in detail)).


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 17 August 2007, 17:30:33
Well- I have planned a project for Marmarra which involves this system and alot of various important individuals and groups who use this. To I would say it is pretty much an intergral part of the project and as such required...

I didnt really think about the Vampire element to this, but if this doesn't bother anybody is it a problem?

Oh and Taila- Why would my work have anything to do with Coren's magic?


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Fox on 17 August 2007, 17:38:51
I didnt really think about the Vampire element to this, but if this doesn't bother anybody is it a problem?

Not a problem by me, but others may have issues with it. I was just pointing it out.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 17 August 2007, 18:26:39
K Fox, I see, Thanks I guess...

Does anyone else have any queries/problems/suggestions on this?


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Mina on 18 August 2007, 13:54:41
I like it.  The fact that it has some overlap with other magic systems is desirable, I think, as that would suggest the existence of some sort of underlying principle tying together all the magic systems.  And it's about time we had a system where blood plays a relatively important role. 

Quote
Sanryu is found in the blood
You later mention things like directing Sanryu to specific organs and such.  I suppose this means that while it is naturally found in blood, it can be moved beyond it?  Otherwise you'd be messing up your blood circulation. 


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 18 August 2007, 20:04:02
Perhaps I didnt articulate this properly...Naturally Sanryu travels in the blood where it is transported to other parts of the body (to stay alive)...where a Sanrier can affect their own Sanryu flow...not the flow of their blood...


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Aurora Damall on 19 August 2007, 00:15:15
I would mention something like, "Sangyu manipulation is found in all humans, however it can't be controlled. For only the heart can do this." Something of that sort? Also I think Thorgas's "Grip of the Malefic" should be mentioned as one of the worst things a Sanrier can suffer. Anyways it's very interesting.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Helvíl Ypherén on 19 August 2007, 00:34:18
I would mention something like, "Sangyu manipulation is found in all humans, however it can't be controlled. For only the heart can do this." Something of that sort? Also I think Thorgas's "Grip of the Malefic" should be mentioned as one of the worst things a Sanrier can suffer. Anyways it's very interesting.

I think Sangryu is found on the blood but it is not the blood itself. So the one using sangryu is manipulating the energy but not the blood.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Aurora Damall on 19 August 2007, 01:10:32
Oh :rolleyes:, I see.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 19 August 2007, 02:07:06
Yes Sanryu is IN blood...Sanryu is NOT blood...

And I dont intend to include references to Ximaxian spells for this is intended for Development on a different continent...Unlikely to find Ximaxian Mages there...


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Twen Araerwen on 19 August 2007, 03:34:45
I like this idea alot Deci! I truly was not expecting something this inspiring to strike me on my return home, from work. One of the base thoughts this has brought to me is simply this.

"If Sanryu can be used to magnify or focus energy/strength to various organs. What effects could be accomplished in the human/elf/dwarf ... ect , mind. Could practitioners of this have photographic memories, heightened mental retention skills and how would this effect a powerful long time user? This gives me images of wise men and powerful sages within this art."

Ximaxian Concept: "It seems like these people would be in control of their own Car'all. Or at least this is how I would envision those of Ximax would/could view this type of magic."

I myself would like to see some system of tiered learning in this art, if it comes to be part of the site. Just to give a more in-depth overview of who these practitioners are and what they could accomplish, over their course of learning.

I have a lot more thoughts on this, but it will take me some time to present them here. Just want to sit back and see where others go with this idea.
~Sincerely~
Cáo fá cár'tuulén:Twen Araerwen


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 19 August 2007, 04:55:22
I had only thought about the physical improvements...This idea of the mind is unexplored...

Also...I did intend for this to be Ximax-Friendly...so it doesn't exactly break any of the Ximaxian rules of Magic- But is explained, taught and approached in a completely different way...

Please could I have some of these ideas Twen...You are beginning to make me curious...

'The happy to see his concept developing' Decipher Ziron


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 20 August 2007, 02:50:20
The Pillars of Revival sounds a bit iffy. Zombification I could see fitting in, but truly reviving? That's going into the spiritual aspects of things as well, not to mention you'd also have to have a way to cure/heal the dead body from whatever it was it previously died from to prevent it from just dying again instantly.

Otherwise I don't see any problems with the system. There's still the ban though. So far the previous 'exceptions' didn't really fall under it as they were already existing systems (with referenced to them on the site) being worked out.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 20 August 2007, 02:56:25
Perhaps an Intelligent Zombie-state?

So are you telling me there is no way I can do this due to the ban Marvin?


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Mina on 20 August 2007, 03:06:56
I think that if the tribe is already done or in development there shouldn't be too much trouble with the ban.  It's really meant to stop people from creating new systems for no good reason.   


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 20 August 2007, 19:15:01
Marmarra is more of a sub-tribe within the Zhunite men...and they exist...but the information on site is notoriously outdated...

So can I have a definitive answer to this:

'Can I develop this Blood Magic System?'


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Lorek Sarnif on 20 August 2007, 22:46:59
Though I'm no magical expert it is a world I wish to delve deeper into. I thought this would be a good start so here's my two sans worth. First off, Blood Magic is a great idea though I think it should be heavily restricted to highly experienced role-players with great knowledge of the Santharian magic system and have no history of God-modding. Allowing someone like Navar to role play a Blood Mage would pose a great threat to any decent role player. Secondly, I don't see how resurrection would be at all possible. You're talking about bringing back the dead from the Ethereal Void. They have disintegrated into the very fabric of our world and now have no soul.

Thirdly, Blood Magic; strictly IMHO, would most likely be banned for power reasons, much like Black Druids. The reason Black Druids are banned is because they are capable of ripping the conscience from any living being and transferring their own into that body. That's basically immortality with the ability to kill anyone at your merest whim. I think a Blood Mage beyond the very basic teachings would be capable of similar feats. Fourth, a practitioner of Sannryumancy (unofficial term for it created by my sleep deprived conscious mind after 29 hours) could ... in a sense, manipulate all four elements to extreme results. With necromancy they are no longer inhibited by the limits on it presently defined in fire magic or anywhere on site for that matter. They could manipulate the element of water in us (since that is the chief element in blood) to the point of where we would become almost completely water or none at all.

Mind you, I'm not trying to discourage you Deci, I do consider you a friend. If you need any help in this matter after gaining moderator approval; you know my display name, send me a Private Message. I would be more than happy to help in the development of this particular aspect of magic. I know it doesn't sound like it above but you do have my full support. Those are merely some questions I have about said development. I wish you the best, Lord Deci. Take care all of my fellow dreamers.

Sincerely,
Dagan A. Ironfist


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Helvíl Ypherén on 21 August 2007, 00:00:12
Dagan...
We are not creating things here for the rpg board. UNtil this is approved it is not wise to talk  about the connection of the rpg board to this topic...



Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 August 2007, 01:25:53
I have thought about this...and I want to make it an unconditional ban for RPing...This is because:

- Sanriers are Rarely found outside of Nybelmar

- Blood Magic offers too much power to the individual

- Regardless of your previous knowledge on Santharian Magic- This is a Nybelmarian magic and thus is unrelated

I would however have no problem with NPCs having this ability in stories set in Nybelmar...if of course there is a good reason for it...


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Gaffin on 21 August 2007, 01:36:58
They could manipulate the element of water in us (since that is the chief element in blood) to the point of where we would become almost completely water or none at all.

Dagan, I think Blood Magic is restricted to the channeling of Sanryu in one's own body. I'm not positively certain, but that's what I deduced from reading the post.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Helvíl Ypherén on 21 August 2007, 01:48:49
The purpose of Blood Magic is to manipulate the Sanryu, the "energy" within the blood. In simple terms, it is used to direct that energy so more of it can be put into a specific area.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Gaffin on 21 August 2007, 01:50:05
Yes, but the first post does not state that one can control the allocation of Sanryu in another's body, it only says they can control it in their own.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 August 2007, 01:57:08
I DID state you can affect other people's Sanryu flow using your own....


There are some, a rare elite, who are able to direct Sanryu to very specific points on their body, or even in extremely rare cases project it outside of their own body and use it for offensive or beneficial purposes.

Oh and to Adress Dagan: This concept is not to be used in conjunction with Ximaxian magic- Blood Magic isn't approached as manipulating elements or Ounia or however Ximaxian magic works...


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Gaffin on 21 August 2007, 02:00:07
I thought that simply meant affecting the environment or for actual physical offensive abilities, not actually altering someone else's Sanryu flow. Thanks for clearing that up.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 August 2007, 02:05:40
It is vauge I guess:

But It should be recognised- Blood Magic alters 'Sanryu flow'- at least at most levels...

Blood Magic consists of moving your own Sanryu to specific areas to achieve a desired effect

BUT

Sanryu Flow is always happening- constantly- in all living creatures (I say that most people accept plants are exempt from Sanryu Flow). Sanryu Flow is what keeps people alive.

I assume that the same thesis could applied to affecting other people's Sanryu as 'Channel Absorption'...When one extends their own Sanryu flow OUTSIDE of their body...This though is very hard to do...


SO

I assume it is possible that one can affect someone elses Sanryu Flow to produce the same effects that a Sanrier can cause on themselves- Though only as long as the flow contact remains



Am I making sense or just rambling?


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 21 August 2007, 02:53:58
Personally I don't have anything against it, but as it was brought up for Coren's thingy I figured it needed mentioning here as well.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 August 2007, 03:56:42
What is 'Coren's Thingy' ...I'm lost right now....


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 21 August 2007, 04:05:04
Magic is not my thing anymore, but I was called to take a look here, so I can at least give my opinion from the distance:

Ban:
I personally have no problems with a member wanting to introduce a magic system if the environment and the concept fits and there are plans to go from there. This system seems to be planned to be embedded in a region, a culture, and Deci intends to properly develop it - as he has proven that he can do with all entries he made in the past. The proposal seems to have the basic things it needs (though it can still use some more explanation) and isn't so weird as to make it impossible to follow or contradict magic the way we understand it in Caelereth.

Concept:
I don't know that much about "chi" on which this concept is based on primarily, so an entry on Sanryu would be ideal before the magic based on Sanryu can be elaborated properly. But from what I gather Sanryu might be defined as an energy, that is neither physical nor something spiritual as opposed to the physical stuff - maybe it is the link between body and spirit that for people practicing this kind of magic is located in the blood. I'm just trying a definition here as I didn't read it that clearly in the proposal. So this is the impression I got. Maybe the term "energy" could be avoided as well, the function of Sanryu would then be something like connecting, balancing, something like that. Just thinking aloud.

The way you describe the using of that energy in various bodily function is interesting - and indeed it reminds of that Exasthri concept of Theo from ages past. At Theo's concept it was more a form of martial arts and nothing else, so I don't know where you want to put your emphasis.

But there are lots of possibilities. You know, it could even be of interest for example in the erotic field - the techniques could serve as viagra substitutes... :lol: So maybe Sanriers also are better lovers?  :grin: - At any rate: It looks as if Sanryu magic can have many uses while it could be limited to special practices and applications. Looks like a really good idea to me.

Side note on elven magic:
As that topic has been brought up recently: Elven magic could be "universal Sanryu" if you want to call it that way. The Sanryu mages are focussed completely on blood obviously (see definition I tried to give above), while elves feel these energies everywhere, also in plants and stones to a degree for example and can thus reach out further and share or use such energies better - if they understand nature or try to understand it better, this will increase their capabilities. So there would be basic similarities between elven and Sanryu magic, with a completely different emphasis, though. But this is just a rough footnote.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 August 2007, 04:09:57
So you would like an entry on Sanryu itself...That sounds workable...Could I post a rough draft soon to see what you think?

Its actually funny you mention martial arts- since I did plan for a Martial Art involving Sanryu manipulation based on certain points on the body. Would this be okay?

Regardless...Its nice to know I have your approval Artimidor...

Decipher Ziron,


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 21 August 2007, 04:13:55
Well, if there are no major issues regarding the concept - seems it is generally accepted, details are of course always to be debated. But getting the rough basic details done on the Sanryu sounds like a good idea to me.


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 21 August 2007, 05:25:25
Will do then!


Title: Re: Blood Magic Proposal/Discussion- Magic Experts Come Here!
Post by: Marvin Cerambit on 23 August 2007, 02:47:58
His nybelmarian (sp?) magic write up or something. I should be somewhere on these boards. I figured it was brought up then it should be brought up now too. But since none seem to have objections... :D