Santharian Development

Organization and General Discussions => The Continent of Nybelmar => Topic started by: Miraran Tehuriden on 14 September 2008, 01:22:01

Title: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 14 September 2008, 01:22:01
Dear fellow Moderators and Developers,

If you conceive of a brilliant idea or new concept, and want to place it somewhere on the magnificent continent of Nybelmar, post it here!


1) Be as concise as possible, diving the bare layout of your idea, we don't need whole entries here.

2) If applicable, try to add a map cut-out including some basic information, this is often easier to understand than a textual place description, and makes for less misunderstandings.

3) No debating of ideas in this thread. If you have issues with a concept announced here, edit the announcement to alert the poster (in a bright  colour!), and start a discussion thread in a plain topic.

4) If you read an announcement and have no issues, please edit the post and add a quick line saying so.

5) If a concept has not received an alert/ok after 14 whole days, it can be considered problem free. (I am now assuming we all can check this topic once/ 2 weeks. Tell me if that's a problem for someone)

Title: Ivieth: leave it alone! ;)
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 14 September 2008, 01:42:12
Interest declaration: New sub-tribe of the Krean; somewhere around the ? mark in Ivieth. More to come later. (ie just leave that empty area empty for now)

PS: Edited a few typos in your post above Mira.
Whoops! Thanks..

Let us make the period 2 weeks. After all, anything posted here should only be in the brainstorming phrase so no hurry to get it done.
Fine by me, as long as we have a maximum time limit.

People without moderator status cannot edit the posts here, but they can always make a new post underneath and one of us can tidy up afterwards.


Decipher: No issues from my side with this- Interested in the details though.....

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 14 September 2008, 05:20:26
Concept Announcement (sortof);

I would like to populate the Germon Doith with both the Cairnhoom, on the surface, as the Moh'sys, below ground. Moh'sys presence will be speculated, nothing more (so no fancy Moh'sys insider information). Any semi-direct information is solely based on Tiquaitan relics.

Coren: approved!

Decipher: I especially like the lack of confirmation and relic based ideas

Title: Mountains of Ivieth: the Gondolwenmith ("the Practical Krean")
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 17 September 2008, 01:56:00
Map 1 = the Gondolwenmith Mainland
Map 2 = Mainland + colonies


After the Year of Darkness (1649 BS), many among the Ancient Krean who survived the cataclysm left their lands, disillusioned with their homeland and in search of a new life elsewhere. Some from this Great Exodus settled on the eastern coasts of the Ivieth Mountains, modeling their new state after the principles of Gondolwen Madas Mith (EASTER EGG!), the celebrated Merchant-King of the Ancient Krean. Lovers of order, logic and discipline; stern and pragmatic, the Gondolwenmith became known as “the Practical Krean”. As centuries dissolved into one another like waves into the ocean, they emerged as great traders, shipwrights and bridge-builders. Relative to the size of their small state they have a disproportionately large fleet - the fourth largest in Nybelmar after that of Aca Santerra, Korweyn and R’unor, surpassing that of the Anpagan Republic.

Masters of transportation and commerce, the Gondolwenmith have colonies in strategic locations all across the northern half of the continent and vie with the R’unorians over the corn chamber of Loreney. They maintain a close alliance with the mages of Nybelriod and other Krean tribes & possess an economic influence way beyond the borders of their own territories. Master manufacturers of textiles, porcelain and furniture, the Gondolwenmith are also renowned smiths in northern Nybelmar.

Among the achievements of the tribe one can list the creation of Lex Mercatoria and maritime law; the founding of their capitol, the fortified city of Caradruith; and the construction of the many bridges and aqueducts crowning their land. 

These people take their name from the celebrated Ancient Krean king, Gondolwen Madas Mith, who is viewed as the ideological father of their tribe. Incidentally, “mith” is also the suffix form of “mithreas” – meaning “student of”.

Alternative Names
Gondolwenmith has in common speech been eroded to Gondolwenith, and eventually toGondolith. Gondolwain is also frequently heard, the suffix “wain” standing for “citizens of”.

The Gondolith mainland extends from Cloud Cape at its northwestern-most point to the skerries of the northern shore and traces the idyllic coastline of Ivieth as far south as the delta of the Great River Vaenar. Across the Bay of Gondol it encompasses the peninsula of […], stopping short of the [Lorenite?] city of Lahssar.

Most of the territory is well-forested with a carpet of maquis and evergreen woodlands leading to the soft sands and azure waters of the many coves and inlets hidden along the coastline, except the Vaenar delta to the south, where the trees give way to ordered and well-cultivated cotton plantations.

All along the coastline lie long, narrow inlets of sea between steep cliffs, penetrating into the mountains and their valleys. These inlets are appreciably deeper and colder than the adjacent sea, their waters cooled by the icy currents of the mountain rivers feeding them. The reefs along the bottoms of these inlets abound in marine life, which is perhaps why the Gondolwain coastline, especially its northern shore, is such a generous fishing ground. These inlets provide much needed waterways for passage and ferrying between the quarries deep in the Ivieth Mountains and the coastal towns and ports. During the winter months, however, strong tidal currents and wide saltwater rapids occur at the mouths of these inlets – a menace to navigation. Set against snowcapped peaks, these inlets offer majestic views, especially amidst the much taller slopes of the northern shore, carving a smooth, serpentine waterway through the mountains. The air of these inlets carries the sharp, refreshing scent of the lemon blossoms dotting their slopes; a school of fish causing an occasional ripple here and there only heightens the silence ruling these aquatic valleys.

Thousands of island blocks parallel the northern coast, between Cape Cloud and the Port of Nor, and provide a protected channel for commerce behind an almost unbroken string of mountainous islands and skerries, sheltering Gondolwain transports from the treacherous weather conditions of the open sea. Hundreds of bridges, tall and proud, each a monument to the power and ingenuity of the Gondolwain, span the skerries, linking the islands and connecting them to the mainland. The taller summits amidst the northern skerries are crowned with fortresses and catapults, guarding the Gondolith homeland against the fleets of other Nybelmarian powers and rendering the skerry-protected passage behind unassailable.

Rainwater and snowmelt collect in the mountaintops of Ivieth, forming tiny streams. These gullies either grow larger as they collect more water or add to the water of the larger streams they meet along their descent towards the shore. Countless tributary streams all across the realm of the Gondolwain merge, forming rivers in the higher elevations of the mountains and hills; and the rivers grow larger as they accumulate more water from more tributaries. The great rivers of Daeinion Ivieth carve deep V-shaped valleys as their fast-moving water cuts away at the rock on its downhill surge. The vigorous current picks up pieces of rock and conducts them downstream, breaking them into smaller and smaller pieces of sediment. Leaving the high elevation of the mountains and entering the flat plains, the rivers slow down and begin to saunter towards the level landscape of the coastline, giving the sediment a chance to fall to the river bottom and be deposited along with the rocks and pebbles worn smooth in the river’s long journey. Thus, the Gondolwain say, rivers not just flow; they change the surface of the Disk. But amidst the many waterways of Gondolwenmith, only the Great Vaenar achieves the ultimate goal of the river: to create a wide, flat valley where it can flow smoothly towards the sea.

Geography determines culture, and so does the geography of agriculture determine land use: Dairying and intensive farming of perishable vegetables and fruits take place in the fields close to the settlements as these products must get to market quickly - the refrigerated oxcarts of the Dearanic Age no longer being a luxury Nybelmarian mages can replicate. Since grains last longer than dairy products and are much lighter than the timber and firewood used for fuel, thereby reducing transport costs, they can be located further from the Gondolith cities, often imported from the “corn-chamber” of Loreney to the northeast or from the Sartheran elves to the southwest; the Vaenar delta attends to the much more lucrative demands of the textile industry.

The sea causes numerous indentations in the land, creating picturesque coves and lagoons on the eastern coastline all the way from the Port of Nor to the River Vaenar, with merchant ships taking refuge in their calm waters or the private vessels of the wealthier Gondolwain anchored a few dashes from the coast - tied perhaps to a solid pine tree onshore, enjoying these idyllic sanctuaries. Indeed, throughout the entire Gondolith shoreline bays, ports and shelter creeks are abundant.

The sheltered geography as well as the thermal underwater springs induce a climate very much like that of the Plains of Zhun, which is rater milder perhaps from what one would expect from the higher latitude of the region. The sea surface temperature, for instance, ranges from about 1.6 to 2.5 periks throughout the year, which is warmer than the bay between Faen and the Aesteran coastal city-states to the west. All these factors have led to the region being called “the Zhun of the North” by the southern civilizations of the continent. Again, like the Sea of Zyloth, the currents of the Bay of Gondol are not smooth in light of either speed or direction, influenced as they are by the blowing winds. However, due to its relative limpidity and hot waters, the Bay of Gondol accommodates large quantities and a broad variety of fish at the time of their procreating maturity, immigrating from the harsher Maren Nybeth and Marein Nermarein.

The realm of the Gondolwain is rich in waterfalls, which grow taller and more striking towards the north, adding yet another treasure to the scenic landscape. Ships sailing towards the Gondolith mainland will be quick to spot the great aqueducts carrying the water of its many streams and waterfalls, bringing order and prosperity to a difficult region which no other tribe on Nybelmar had hitherto dared to master.

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 17 September 2008, 03:00:53
Oh, and before I forget: rumours of the Darklord etc Mira & I discussed in Essalui Thareliath; will come in handy in the next Shadow War

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 20 September 2008, 09:43:25
Not really a concept, rather just a reference note:

Germon Doilth= Full of Nasty things (in some ways a more evil manifestation of the 'opposite' theme of the Kaereth Plains [i.e. Giant insects....just they eat you etc. etc.)

Title: Falsejungles of Chuu
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 07 December 2008, 06:43:52
A concept for the Forests Southwest of Ivyieth:

The Meelaimad/Hive Men

Before the cataclysm, history tells of two favourites for the title of High Priestess of Ankriss- Eluda and Alora. Neglected from most textbooks however is a third petal, Meelaia. A Lillivear similar to both Eluda and Alora, though vastly more power-hungry and not as magical capable as the duo, Meelaia was however amongst the greatest Seedshapers to ever live- warranting her the nickname 'Queen of the Leaf'. Somewhere inbetween Eluda's defection and Alora's demise, Meelaia quickly realises her hopes for power have grown fruitless- amongst the Krean at least. As a result, she becomes increasingly resentful of Alora and spends great amounts of time absent from the High Temple grounds- a decision that safeguards her life after the initial shockwaves of the Breaking. Seeing, as Eluda prophecised, the calamity caused by Alora, she sees this as the decline of the Krean- and uses the hysteria to her advantage, leaving, travelling north.

Upon nearly reaching the coasts of the Northern Bay and venturing closer to the Ivyieth territories that will one day be Gondolwenmith, the lone traveller finds herself in (at that point in time) the muddy wastes of Chuupah- inhabitated by the various bands of greedy degenerates, labelled by the locals as the Chuumads, she is both repelled and intriguied. The Chuumads at the time spent practically the entireity of their time fighting amongst themselves, wasting the lives they could scrape off the relatively barren landscape. The Chuumad bands roaming the area were only able to survive by foraging into the mud for the few vegetables that grew there- though the luckiest Chuumads could dine on the lean meat of predators (that generally were stalking them). The wastes were not without their usages though, since below the feet of the Chuumads laid vast deposits of precious stones- though they had no idea about this at the time, they were far too busy trying to survive.

Upon venturing into the wastes, Meelaia's thought-path was simple- she could use these vast numbers of backwards degenerates to form her own domain, overwhich she could reign as a being somewhere inbetween Queen and Goddess. Once Meelaia began to demonstrate her abilities to grow flora from (seemingly) nothingness, the Chuumads quickly began to hail her as a divine manifestation. After uniting the wanderers into one body, the new population was named 'Meelaimad'. Within 50 years of the Meelaimad accepting Meelaia as their leader (dubbing her 'The Prophet of Ankrah', a goddess of Meelaia's own creation, a crude degradation of Ankriss), a vast forest, using seeds from Shar, had been grown (replicating her homeland). The 'Falsejungles of Chuu' as they were known not only provided the Meelaimad with various forms of sustinence in the forms of fruit, but they began to realise how to use the plants for a variety of purposes: recreational or medicinal (though never to the extent of the Ancient Krean or Ancient Tiquaitan). As time progressed, birds began to migrate into the region, adding all forms of colour to the Falsejungles, and local species began to notice the vast amounts of vegetation that had landed on their doorstep.

The forests were not without their flaws though, even the Prophet-Queen Meelaia was not deluded of this. Though her Seedshaping abilities were unparallelled, the climate of the region was immovable and far beyond her capacity. The plants would slowly begin to die, unless tended to magically. Though thereotically she could, Meelaia saw the constant maintenance of leauges of plants as an incredibly cumbersome one, and as such, those who showed ability were taught to Seedshape. This seemingly full-proof scheme to allow an aritifical jungle was put in place, and with this sense of security, the Meelaimad flourished. Learning vastly from their Lillivear leader in various aspects of culture, the Meelaimad began to develop both socially, economically and academically. These were times of peace and knowledge. However, all was not well.

Things seemed to be growing exponentially. The Meelaimad had heeded to words of their long dead Prophetess and had crafted Cities in the canopies composed of Seedshaped branches greatly reminisicent of those on Shar. They were also beginning to consider the extent of their sciences and medicine- becoming quickly renowned as great mathematicians and alchemists. This, sadly, was the peak of their civilisation.

One Meelaimad scientist surveying the lowerlands (as they were described by those living in the upper cities) for new substances to mix in his chemical formulae found something remarkable when he excavated- diamonds. Though the Meelaimad themselves had no idea what to with these 'Clear stones' word quickly spread towards the dominion of the Faen, who quickly saw business opportunities. As seems to be the case in many places however, the arrival of wealth usually foretells the arrival of conflict. The Meelaimad were struck with greed- factions emerged and a civil war began. As described by a later Meelaimad historian 'The war raped Ankrah's blessings and tore all of her divine work to the floor in the pursuit of false wealth beneath the barren ground'.

After the twenty year war as resolved, the damage to the Falsejungles became apparent. To perhaps add insult to injury the 'winners' of the war began to further desecrate the landscape in order to pillage the earth of the diamonds beneath. This wouldn't be a problem though- the Seedshapers (or 'Tai-el Tenders', Tai-el being the most common tree they kept alive) would just rebuild what laid before? This however, presented a problem.

For some reason, the Tai-el Tenders had lost their ability to animate plant life, the extent of their magic limited now to forming structures out of mud. The Falsejungles began to rot. The Meelaimad saw this as 'Ankrah's Punishment' for their insolence. The floral metropolises in the sky had to be vacated before their foundations rotted and they came tumbling down onto the forest floor. The most beautiful plants were the first to die, suited more to a tropical climate, but as time progressed, the colour of the Falsejungles wilted until it became a brown and withered wasteland as it had been long ago.

Distraught, the Tai-el Tenders came up with a makeshift solution, the Hive Cities. Adopting the new names of 'Hivekeepers', the vast amounts of mud were magically formed into great mounds of mud suitable for habitation. This obviously was horrific news for the civilsation of which many of its members have never stepped foot on real ground, and moral dropped. The remaining Meelaimad scrape what is left of their diamonds and try to garner up as much wealth as they can, riding their giant Platypuses through the swamp-like terrain, a haunting reminder of their abuse of nature. Years have been spent trying to decipher the wisdom of the bygone era, the Hivekeepers trying to restore their magic to its former potency. The Meelaimad, however, have lost hope in rational means. The Meelaimad have become bitter and in some cases aggressive, holding on to the sparse remains of their dying forests and relying heavily on their existing but deteroeorating welath for survival.

To this day they still hope for the new prophet of Ankrah, foretold to be a 'King of the Earth', to return to the remnants of the Falsejungles and restore its former glory.

What do people think?

Here's the proposed territory


The Prophet of Ankrah herself (?)


Coren: Just stopping by very quickly: No objection to the idea. A few reminders: (1) Several centuries passed between the Alora's ascension to HP (roughly 20 years before Dearan's birth) and the Breaking. (2) Don't forget that they have the Sartheran elves as neighbours. (3) Earth King ties in nicely with the Morchini myths. (3) The climate of the area is NOT tropical. Dry semi-Mediterranean weather but colder than Zhun.

Decipher: @(3): This is precisely the reason the jungles needed constant maintenance and why now they are dying without it. Oh and is anyone capable of filling me in on the Sartheran elves politically/culturallly?

Mira: Sounds good, more fodder for Coren's sea-trading nation. Sartheran info must be obtained from Smith, methinks.

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 15 December 2008, 05:22:37
I can supply you with info an Sarthera; I was supposed to write it one day anyway... But first: Decipher's email.

Mira; In your PM-box Coren!

 Sorry Mira, I was imprecise with my language! I meant: first I need to respond to the email/questions Deci sent me ;)

Something occured to me: Instead of uri-checking all the concepts I promised to check and answering the PMs/emails individually... perhaps I should use my freetime to re-write the Nybelmar overview? There were a few problems that I promised to help Eleyr with anyway. It might be quicker to sketch out the basics that way. At any rate, I really do not have anything more than a paragraph or two to say on any of these new tribes I put on the map...

What do you think?

Mira; Mira Says: Always Start At The Beginning!

DECI: Yes Coren, an Overview would be a wonderful idea. I assume you would need bits and pieces from us to tie in overviews of our respective brainchildren though, yes?

COREN: That would be very much appreciated, yes  As would any help with the cross-referencing - especially the flora/fauna that has been created since you started piling the list

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 28 December 2008, 20:51:49
This topic (,12934.msg156964.html#msg156964) still needs our attention guys and gals, we need a name to refer to in our entries!

Coren: I thought we decided to go with "Enkyklopadie Nybelmarnica"?
Mira-> Done and done then.

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Miraran Tehuriden on 03 February 2009, 03:01:48
Eyes and Marks and Signs oh my!

These are a rough paint scetch of a sign that can be seen as the mark of Vikthi (upper version) or in its inverted form, the Eye of Aniss (lower version). These marks must be an inversion of eachother, as per the "Vikh entry, so if i must provide Quellion with a Mark of Vikthi for the Ter'ei'Vikh picture, the shape of the Eye must also be determined.

So, what does Lord Coren make of this? Acceptable?

Coren: Fine by me! Plus, there is always scope for artist freedom later on - it is not as if one can go back 5000 years in time and grab the nearest Ancient Krean for a comparison: "Ahm, excuse me my lady - would you be so kind as to turn around for cross-referencing purposes?"

I've actually been toying with two ideas, which can be used cumulatively: (1) The Eye actually varies between each of the "derivative" Krean tribes so that none of the marks we have today actually represent the original. But of course all these tribes could then have their own notions about what the original looked like - just like the Vikh think it was an inversion of theirs. (2) Over the centuries, scholars might have accumulated several different accounts of what the Eye looked like - owing to scholarly mistakes; inaccurate artistic representations; the sheer amount of time that has passed etc. (Sorry, I am a bit tired today; sentences don't flow as usual)

Let me know what you think

Fine with me, as long as the Kaerath Lillivear are showing something at least resembling the inverted Mark, since they share a group of fairly recent ancestors. Sending the Mark to Quellion then!

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 07 March 2009, 07:51:39
Nybelmarian Tribe Proposal- The Alkarun Men

(This here, assuming it is accepted, would be a joint project between Rookie and Deci)

The Alkarun (Al-ka-roon) are a tribe of particularly interesting nomads that exist within the naturally somewhat arid plains of the Moredein Tyrath. Primarily, it is the extravagant appearance of these unusual men that associates such great interest with them. Dusty terracotta red paints their skin, making the sandy to dark colours of their hair even bolder. The boldness of the Alkarun visage extends beyond simple coloration, however. The broad but low shoulders of the Alkarun give them a very pragmatic look, their strongly defined facial features and their generally focused demeanour gives them the appearance of a very patient people. Furthermore, they are blessed with unusually long earlobes, something that they pride themselves upon. They are so attached to them, in fact, that they intricately decorate them with small bones and often ridicule foreigners for having such conservative flaps of skin dangling from the sides of their heads.

The lives of the Alkarun revolve around the rather mysterious Yurratha beasts. It seems that the Alkarun have managed to design almost every facet of their life to accommodate these creatures, the sheer number of uses they have for the animal even leaving the more ‘civilised’ neighbours of the Alkarun dumbfounded. Be it foodstuffs from the creature’s milk and meat, tents and garments craft from the beast’s durable skin, medicinal tools harvested from their stomachs or as mobile transports for the vulnerable infants. Alkarun clans are more than happy to follow the nomadic beasts from pasture to pasture, but there is a deeply spiritual element to this.

The Alkarun have a deep religious relationship with their deity Trohf, who is believed to be the only male Yurratha (usually signified by overtly pronounced horns). As such, they rely of Trohf to divinely impregnate the Yurratha. Besides imploring the deity to fertilise their livestock, the Alkaruni Shamans (known as ‘Cloudsingers’) entreat Trohf to use his omnipotent ‘shape-shifting’ abilities to control the weather, making their lives in their arid conditions much easier. So strong is the relationship between the Cloudsingers and Trohf that groups of them are capable of changing the weather in a matter of minutes, supported by claims of Yurratha-shaped clouds floating over the plains. The Cloudsingers also practice a craft of weather control that allows them to direct lightning bolts, powerful winds and driving rain, making them fearsome opponents when threatened (though such feats have not been seen in years).

The spirituality of the Alkarun runs deep through their culture. As they associate masculinity with the divine, only men are permitted to become Cloudsingers and those that do not are almost guaranteed a life as a Yurratha tender. This association, however, leaves the Alkaruni women with vast number of professions to pursue: craftswomen, crop growers, pseudo-botanists, cheesemakers, homoeopathists, water-collectors, camp guards and many more. It is in fact not uncommon for Alkaruni women to take up more than one job within a clan, on top of caring for the needs of their families and homesteads. Such is the preoccupation of men that all other matters are taken over by the women. Clan chieftains are always female with those who organise trade and diplomacy being of the fairer sex as well.

Note: The Yurratha beasts are, in fact, hermaphrodites. Due to the fact that all creatures are capable of bearing children and have quite inconspicuous mating practices the Alkarun assume that they must all be female and that some otherworldly force (Trohf) must fertilise them.

Mira->Likes! Especially the note :P

Smith: All is well except the location. That area is supposed to be barren. And you have the dwarves keeping an eye on the caravans coming from the west and heading to Korweyn. Instead, I'd say you should move them to the Benderrath area (not just the mountains but the area around the mountains as well). We are supposed to have a nice collection of nomadic tribes there and these guys would be a good start.

Deci: You mentioned in the Drakus thread that this would be a big project Smith. Any more details on the Benderrans you might perchance want to share?

Smith: Hmmm... Lemme see... So we need a "bed" of nomadic populations that at some points in the Nybelmar history might or might not migrate eastwards (and maybe even westwards). The cause of these migrations would be, of course, their conflicts with the Chyrakisth. The Kassites in the Korweyn Empire for instance are such an example. They came from the west and so at that time Koldar and me were imagining that they came from somewhere around that area (Benderrath). However we were supposed to have more tribes there and not just the Kassites. Therefore we imagined those mountains and the area around them as the home of several nomadic tribes (Hmmm... if I actually remember right, the origin of the Anpagans could be traced down to those tribes as well). So, the project there would involve designing several nomadic tribes, each with their different culture. I would also favor something like a Benderran "capital" - a semi-nomadic settlement ran by a dominant tribe, or, if you'd like, by a sort of an anarchist agreement between these tribes living there. The latter would be harder to implement, but it would be really interesting if you like to delve in fantasy political structures (and not just fantasy philosophy - like, ok, you have all these nomads, now can you imagine how an anarchist society would work for them?) Because of their way of life and somehow harsh climate, the other regional powers would kinda leave them alone, so they would only have the Chyrakisth to worry about (plenty of support for demon mythology there, since the Chyrakisth are kinda demon-like). Big project then :D You don't have to deal with it all by yourself, of course, but this proposal could make up for a good start in that direction. You also have no imagination problems from what I see :P so I'm sure you'd have no problem crafting some history/story threads there connecting the east and west through these nomadic populations :) I cannot promise anything right now, really (my life's quite hectic at the moment) but if you have some specific stuff for me to do I might actually be able to really help with the project.

Coren: First of all, a slap on the head for Mira the Usurper for misappropriating my colour. That is now fixed. As regards the proposed tribe, no objections from this corner. Do we still have the Banderrath nomads?

Smith: I guess I'm stuck with orange? I kinda randomly picked it... Anyway, yes we still have the Benderrans around, that's what I was saying. Deci's proposal could be a first step towards that - as they're a collection of nomadic tribes living in that area, rather than just one.

Deci: Rookie and I pondered about this for a while and came up with this. The following tribes live in Benderra. Those with asterixes are past residents:

- Alkraun
- Brathawann
- Kimbalavv
- Sturawah
- Elkoran
- Pagans*
- Kassites*

The term 'Benderran' is quite vague in its usage, so here are the three defintions:

1. Follower of Prince Benderra

Prince Benderra of Elkoran (I think), after a prophetic dream, gathers a few of his kin to expell the Chyrakisth from the Northern Borders, or at least push them back again. His father, the King, falls ill and dies, but he refuses to take up the throne until he has united the various nomadic tribes. The Elkorani who initially followed Benderra in his attempts agaisnt the Chyrakisth were called 'Benderrans'.

2. A Citizen of the Benderrarchdom

Though cultural margins remained horridly apparent between the tribes after Prince Benderra's unification, all the nomadic peoples do recognise (to varying degrees of serverity) the authority of the Benderrarch (the current King of Benderrath). As such, all the tribes are collectively referred to as 'The Benderran Nomads'. Similar to how you may consider yourself French or Spanish, but still European.

3. Those of Mixed Blood

The most influential caste within the Benderrarchdom, at least in terms of their sphere of influence, is those of mixed nomadic blood. Due to the encouraged intermarriage between the tribes after the unification there are large numbers of peoples with mixed heritages. These people are referred to as 'Benderrans'. Benderrans are met with different receptions depending on the tribe. The Brathawann, for example, see 'hybrids' of Brathawann blood as beneath the pure-blooded tribe members, but see mixed-blooded members of other tribes as more important. Benderrans are important because they are considered to eliminate bias within the government (as all high-ranking officials, with exceptions to the Emissary Chieftans, are of mixed, Benderran blood- including the Benderrarch himself!).

Other notes on the Benderran system:

- Political Activity centres around the Capital City 'UNNAMED', which was carved into the side of 'UNNAMED' moutain a relatively equal distance from all the tribal territories.

- The Benderran military is made of Benderran Soldiers, but is assisted by various shamanic magi

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 22 March 2009, 20:22:25
Bumping this so the new additions to the previous post aren't missed, will delete post once it has been acknowledged...

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Tharoc Wargrider on 22 March 2009, 22:30:50
Just a gentle nudge about Luminite, Deci.

DECI: Check your PMs

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 22 March 2009, 23:58:31
This sounds all terrific interesting, it is a pity I'm occupied elsewhere ;)

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Smith in Exile on 23 March 2009, 05:50:30
That sounds excellent :)

Here's one more link to something we were thinking about Benderrans that you should be aware of:,3706.0.html

(you can save the link and delete this post if you want to unclutter the thread)

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Bard Judith on 23 March 2009, 11:31:57
"The Alkarun (Al-ka-roon) are a tribe of particularly interesting nomads that exist within the naturally somewhat arid plains of the Moredein Tyrath. Primarily, it is the extravagant appearance of these unusual men that associates such great interest with them. Dusty terracotta red paints their skin, making the sandy to dark colours of their hair even bolder. The boldness of the Alkarun visage extends beyond simple coloration, however. The broad but low shoulders of the Alkarun give them a very pragmatic look, their strongly defined facial features and their generally focused demeanour gives them the appearance of a very patient people. Furthermore, they are blessed with unusually long earlobes, something that they pride themselves upon. They are so attached to them, in fact, that they intricately decorate them with small bones and often ridicule foreigners for having such conservative flaps of skin dangling from the sides of their heads."

Apart from the face that this tribe's name is similar to mine, their description intrigues me.  Would you care to provide a bit more detail and perhaps an inspiration picture or two, in the chance of getting an illustration done by yours truly?  (For example, what exactly does 'low shoulders' mean - a long neck, or sloping shoulders?  Do they have full lips?  Eye folds?  Sharp philtrums?  Curly or straight folicles? )

Deci: I'll PM you a comphrensive description sometime soon Judith! This thread is supposed to be for proposals but I appreciate the offer greatly!

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 09 April 2009, 17:25:41
I finally figured out what was bugging me about the name "The Meelaimad/Hive Men"! It sounds like the name of a very eminent law & economics scholar: A.D. Melamed - as in Guido Calabresi and Dougles Melamed, who expounded on the Coase Theorem in their seminal article, entitled "Property Rules, Liability Rules, and Inalienability: One View of the Cathedral". An article, which, along with others, I have the pleasure of analysing over Easter...

Was this an obscure easter-egg or coincidence?

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 09 April 2009, 20:03:30
I'm afraid that (even after your wonderful explanation) I still don't know who that man is, so it must be a conincidence...a relatively obscure one, still  :buck:

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 10 August 2009, 11:36:19
Proposal --> Music School (Cusca), Dance School (Cusca) and Drama/Theatre (Cyras)

(NB: I have PMed Coren about this, and he invited me to post a brief outline on it.)

Quite aside from Santharia, I have been doing study into these three areas of human expression, particularly their history. I began thinking whether there was some kind of outlet in Santharia for them ... on reading about the Zhunite city states, and the specific mention of those three here, I thought that this might be just the place.

Music/Dance Schools
- purpose of them:- bring praise to their gods, competition, enjoyment
- instruments:- lyre, flute, drums, trumpets (?), singing(?)
- dances:- religious, popular, entertainment, competition
- location
- names of teachers/pupils ie teacher is called a ________ and pupils are called _________
- perhaps curriculum examples
- famous musicians/dancers
- maybe an Eistedford type of competition?

- structure/types of dramas
- where performed (open aired theatres) --> Diagram/picture
- how many in it
- famous playrights
- names of playwights/actors/etc
- deus ex machina
- maybe an Eistedford type of competition?

Anyway ... that's my thoughts/ideas at the moment on it.


Further comments by me are going to be in blue.

DECI: Hey! As one of (if not the) official head of Zhun I'm always pleased to see new ideas being flushed into it. I think the Classical Zhunite Arts are a great place to start!

I think your selection of Cyras and Cusca are shrewd moves and I think they would be best fitting for the ideas you are discussing. If anything, you could develop both of the settlements as artistic hubs, leading for competition between the two? If there is anything Cusca is good at, its annoying the other states.

Oh and a few notes from my side:

- purpose of them:- bring praise to their gods, competition, enjoymen

You say 'praise to their gods', at current I can only think of two actual Zhunite gods (The Dragon Lord 'Seras' and High Goddess of Nature 'Ankriss'....though I'm not sure if she stayed in the pantheon after the whole cataclysm thing [Coren?]). Evocative dance was used by the Krean Priestesses, who could actually cast omnipotent Krean Magic with it, if I remember correctly. I do, however, very much like the religious element. With the natural business of the Zhunites, I had always imagined much of their worship would be proactive e.g. you dont neccesarily sit in a room and prayer to the God of Wine, you just thank him a few moments before drinking yourself into oblivion. If anything, since the Zhunites in my mind are very Greco-Roman, we could expand the pantheon in a similar way to Classical Antiquity, have a specific God of Dance and Music that your artistic fellows can revere?

I was thinking along a similar line to Greco-Roman as well. I was just putting down ideas as they came to me ... all of which are subject to change of course ... and I know that dance/music was important in some/most of the terran religions. I wasn't actually sure how many gods/goddesses that had actually been created for the Zhunites. I was kind of under the impression, for some reason, that they had more gods than that. So ... would I therefore be able to create such things? ie a God/Goddess of Dance and Music?

Coren: Yep, the Zhunites are supposed to have quite a crowded pantheon, rather like the Greek ones. I've only invented one so far (Seras the Dragon Lord) - that's why you couldn't find any others on site :P The pantheon is headed by Ankriss/Arlea - who were "imported" into Zhunite religion when the Krean expanded into Zhun. All the other Gods are thought to be children of the two main goddesses.

- instruments:- lyre, flute, drums, trumpets (?), singing(?)

I think that could vary from school to school. I see, for instance, Karakanite styles being very drum and trumpet heavy, while Cuscans might prefer lighter string sets. The Zhunites did inherit alot of their culture from either the Anpagans to the East or the Krean to the West, so there is and should be alot of variation in the people and their tastes, which should be reflected in their musics. Though all Zhunites, trying to compare a Cyran to a Hostarian, for example, makes them seem almost alien, so making their music set apart would be the way forward. It also opens to playing field for more competition.

Yep ... so there could be a wider range of instruments than those identified in the "Meet the Zhunites Post" which details the unique features of each city state? Or would it be better to primarily limit them to those instruments?

Coren: Either way is fine with me. The instruments I listed there were what I pictured as the original Zhunite instruments - if you need anything else, you can always attribute that to the Krean influence ;)

- structure/types of dramas

You could go with Comedy/Tragedy/Documentary/Myth set of genres.  I'm (somewhat) in the process of writing a Marmarran Tragedy, though its in a novel format, and though the other Zhunite actors probably wouldnt want to perform it, Its always a good starting point if you can reference actual texts that have been dramatised.

Just dont touch Operas! I'm saving those for the Tiquaitan!

Your wish is my command! I was thinking along the lines of structure as in them having three or four or five parts and that each part basically is called something specific ... and possibly even that if it is a comedy, it should have certain characteristics, which are different to trageies/documentaries/myths.

- deux ex machina

Whats that?

Gahh ... I spelled it incorrectly, it should have been deus ex machina (lit. God of the machine)... but basically they were simple machines used by the Ancient Greeks to do things like lift the actors if they had to be gods. Since then it has become a device used in plays/books/movies to bring a convoluted story line to a conclusion, in a way that doesn't really make sense eg a Detective happening to find the exact person who can help him solve a mystery ... and other such things.

Or a hero facing death for a crime he didn't commit, and while his friends attempt to prove it, they are unsuccessful, and suddenly the real perpetuator steps out at the last minute, or the thing that'll save the queen from death is found amazingly and unexpectedly ... basically it destroys the suspension of belief that stories such as these aim for. A different way of saying it would be 'out of the blue'. Dream sequences ie 'he woke up and it was all a dream' is another version of it. The version I'd be thinking of would be the original meaning of it.

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 11 August 2009, 21:36:40
Hi! Just to let you know I'll read through this later tonight or tomorrow!

EDIT: OK, see my comments in the original post :)

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 11 August 2009, 23:36:21
This does prompt me to want to sketch up a Zhunite Pantheon...Any objections?

Coren: Well I can always shoot down the things I don't like as we go along, so if you want to come up with a rough draft go for it! :D Let's make it an "open-ended" pantheon, so we can add other deities later on

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Fox on 04 November 2009, 15:06:42
Proposal - Kayrrhem Revision

Concepts and Overall Plan

In bullet points:

1) I want to expand on the ‘High Elf’ nickname. We have many traditional ‘Wood Elves’, who live in tree cities and are very casual and nature-focused. I’m looking to make the Kayrrhem more of the ‘lordly’ and noble elf, with grand cities and civilization. Still tied to nature as are all elves, but on the upper scale of it rather than the ‘neutral’ scale (as most Wood Elves), or the lower scale (of the various low-tech wandering elven tribes).

2) Grand cities are still entwined by nature. Is supported by them already being heavily craft-oriented, so their cities are a work of art. Not to say that traditional elven cities aren’t, but the Kayrrhem ones would be more regal, more stone and metal and flourish. “The perfection of balance and order is one of their greatest goals and they proved great in building vast cities with incredible buildings of stone interwoven with the forest in a way that does not make one feel wandering through cold stone streets but flourishing gardens.“

3) Expand on their role as hunters of evil in the past. “... and their determination in fighting the dark servants of Coór whenever and wherever they might raise.“ Other elves tend to stick to their forests and become one with the world and only coming out to defend it when there is an evil that threatens that existence. Not only that, but ties into the above lordly concept. They aren’t just protectors, but see themselves above other races. Note that this will not be against elven principles, like dark elven superiority complexes, but rather should be more of a ‘good arrogance’. They see other races, like humans, as beloved pets—not their equal, but loved in their own way, and something that needs their guidance and protection to thrive.

However--they have, ever since the Third Shadow Realm war, become much more isolated, and much less 'protective'. Some want to expand more and take up this path again. Others want to remain isolated, protecting only their own forests. Right now, the isolated remnants are in the majority.

4) Stress ‘Protectors’. They don’t conquer, and they aren’t looking to expand territory. They do not mind if other races hold the territory, but they are dedicated to supporting and guiding their allies, even if they remain distant. Are fierce opponents of the Coor’hem, their once kin, and they keep the Coor’hem’s ambition over other nations in check.

5) Despite this (or because of), their close ties to the Korweynites mean that they are a bit more ‘human’ in culture than other elves. High chance of mingling between the two cultures in the past means that there is a large chance of bloodlines  that have some diluted human blood from relationships long in the past. Light Elven blood is all but gone in modern times. Though after the Third Shadow Realm war they retreated inwards, they have begun reaching outwards to the Korweynites again over the last several hundred years. However, some members of the tribe are against this mingling, and want to stick to the tribe’s ancient hidden roots. This has caused a rift (the southern settlements of the Urná'rhem (Hill Elves) (the ones who have not yet entirely joined the Korweynites) want to mingle, the more northern settlements don’t).

6) Their aloofness, and human elements, and divisiveness, leads directly into the creation of the Iferhem and Coorhem, and the Hill Elves. It is that tragic flaw in their society that breeds such divisions, because it encourages some to become overly prideful and self-possessive. I want a noble but flawed tribe here.

7) Their goddess, Yvan, will be a slightly altered version of Ava. Not a new goddess. They come from the same roots and have Light Elven qualities, so they can’t be too far from the Avarian religion, even though they are in Nybelmar. Essentially, Yvan is more a 'feeling' than a goddess. Yvan is in everything, and she is worshiped simply by the very nature of living and expressing her in everything.

8) They will worship Yvan first, but will also have (similarly altered) versions of the Twelve. These are more 'parts of Yvan' than separate gods. Sort of a 'Holy Trinity' kind of feeling, where despite being multiple 'gods', they are all the same 'god'.

9) Powerful magic, but civilized. Not as druidic as other elves, more ancient and regal. Probably a heavily runic system, maybe requires focuses (but not reagents) to cast. Is delicately interweaved in all aspects of society though—magic is as much a part of them as nature (but, key difference for them: magic is NOT nature). It is a balance between the natural (nature), the unnatural (magic), and the link between them (civilization). Their magic is not as harmonious with nature as other elves—in fact it deliberately isn’t, because they believe that they are the caretakers of nature, and that they can still be one with nature despite wielding the unnatural. They see themselves as above nature, closer to the Dream and thus “allowed” to shape nature to make it more beautiful. They are wrong.

In ancient times, the magic was much more prominent—not so much anymore. Mages are a respected, but dwindling group in Kayr society. Some blame the loss of light elven blood of the centuries.

10) Note the differences: Wood Elves are a “part” of nature. Humans are “apart” from nature. But the Kayr believe they are a part of nature, yet also apart from it. They think, erroneously, that they can be both. Wood Elves want to be at one with nature, Humans want to dominate nature. The Kayr believe they *already* dominate, and deserve to dominate, nature. Wood Elves are Harmony, Humans are Ambition, and High Elves are Pride.

11) They are a faltering society. Main thematic element should be the slow decay of an age gone past, the cost of Pride. They are losing their light elven ties, they are losing their elven culture to human influences, they are losing their territory and land to divisions, and they are losing their magic. They still put up a lordly face (in fact their grand cities are a deliberate attempt at proving they are still ‘kingly’), and are still High Elves and respected by the Korweyn, but in truth they are afraid. They are in their twilight.

12) To elaborate on the why’s: Their light elven roots cause them to feel superior to other elves and races, so they have developed issues of self-esteem and self-worth that do not plague Wood Elves. This is the lesson of Fa’av’cal’ar. The Kayrrhem never joined Fa’av’cal’ar, and never learned that lesson, like the other Wood Elves did. Though they hid away, and pretended to be the very best of the elven race outside of the Astyrhim, they in fact were only reaching at something that they truly were not, and this is only now just becoming apparent to them. They are just now having to learn the humility that the Fa’av’cal’ar elves learned millenia ago. They thought they could hide from Fa’av’cal’ar, and that their path was greater, but it has caught up with them.

Coren: Sounds good to me! No objections from my end :)

Miraran: I'm with Coren here :)

Deci: Nothing to contest, Go ahead Fox!

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Rakshiri on 23 November 2009, 22:01:59
Hello, just snooping around but wanted to say that most of your points concerning the Kayr are points I wanted them to go as well essepcially with the division of their tribe and their goals and agendas. I kinda envisioned their cities to be like overgrown Maya cities nearly completely overgrown by plantlife with the difference being that the growth is tended to in such a way that the cities and their stone palaces remain fully functional.

It is probably important to note that given Nybelmar's distant past the Kayrrhém were already at an early age intermingled with more down to Earth woodelves (who however thrived and adopted their culture) given that their forests were some of the last refugees on the continent at the War of the Chosen. The rifts partly stem fromt this ethnic divide of immortal / near immortal lightelves and more common "less pure" grayelves so to speak. The lightelves would always have been more isolationists but left this behind till the Second Shadow War and the break up of the nation which absorbed all their other resources (thus the Korweynites seemingly taking over as the idealistic power), the grayelves would be more pragmatic and the natural social structure would make the more longliving elves be on top as mentors and advisors while the shorter lived ones were lower in the structure.

Concerning magic I guess they would "instinctively" add magic to all their works though it thus would have often just some subtle effect (harder steel, finer sculptures, nicer clothes, more shiny jewlry)

I would suggest to check out the Korweynite Aseya faith which is based on an "Avarian" world order where the Korweynites think they are meant to fulfill the dream through their actions. Overall they interpret things from a philosophical / intellectual point first, nature and its forces second (can be seen their choice of gods which are all more or less gods of concepts, not natural forces like the Twelve). They got to get such ideas from someone so if some relationship could be established between the two it would be great (though the humans can obviously get it wrong)! :)

They see themselves as above nature, closer to the Dream and thus “allowed” to shape nature to make it more beautiful. They are wrong.

Why should they be wrong? It's their interpretation of their role in the world and they are supposed to be among the longestliving and oldest elven tribes aside of the Astyrhim. It is intentionally hinted that they lived separately from them because they didn't believe in what the Astyrhim believed. The difference and trouble for them compared to the Astyrhim is that they got involved into the everyday affairs of the world and thus are bound to have more conflict about how to do things the right way.

I wouldn't forgo the possibility that they are wrong but I would not think of it as a negative aspect. Virtually everyone has preconceptions and define themselves via certain worldviews. The idea of the twelve is pretty strange to most in Nybelmar. They certainly do not perceive Santharia as the morale center of the world etc.

Just some food for thought, have fun!

Title: Re: Construction Zone; New Ideas And Concept Announcements
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 31 January 2010, 02:57:51
Re additions to the Gondolwenmith:

A bit of a wild idea: What if all Gondolwain are identical triplets? That is: What if every time the Gondolwain have children, they always give birth to identical triplets?

This idea came about mainly from two things: (i) a random MSN conversation I had with Mira yesterday. (ii) I was revising the Krean Magic entry (Oh Gods! Again!?) and this spawned a sub-entry on the Krean interpretation of conception (yeah, I know, bad pun). The Krean view conception as a three-way act - ok, that did not come out right. What I meant was: Essentially they see conception as a co-creative act not just between the parents, but between the father, the mother, and the spirit that is going to birth/incarnate into the new baby body. So, according to the Krean, the new baby body is not created by some mysterious process between the parents alone; the spirit of the child makes an active contribution too - flowing from the First Wave into the womb as it were, to fill the new body with life.

I would also need to have some other Nybelmarian tribe attribute the Gondolwain's individualistic culture to this? Deci, can I have the Tarshiinites say that the Gondolwenmith obsession with individuality and the rights/freedoms of the individual emerged as a response to this biological phenomenon? That they developed a culture which revolves around the individual because they spend all their lives trying to distinguish themselves from the other two twins who look exactly like them?  :grin:

PS: I espy a new Shabakuk 'affliction of the mind' on the horizon! :P

What do you guys think?

Mira; Nybelmar sense.... tingling... Coren must be making.. horrible, horrible puns..

Old Man Coren: Oh hush! You nasty little child... More importantly, what say you regarding the idea? Like it / hate it? Any objections?

DECI: I like the idea, and you can quote Tarshiinites, but I they do have naming conventions so you cant just make anyone up! Maybe a naval officer, intent on proving himself, made a mistake out of hubris and the Jartan replied with something like 'Their brothers make them too concerned with heroism'. To add a contrast, you could say the Tarshiinites only ever have single-child births...making the Tarshiinites think there is something 'flawed' in this constant triplicity.

Mira: Well, i love it, of course. the possibilities for funky social systems are just about limitless!

Coren: @mira: Ah, the insolence! :P Crossed that irreverent comment off - hasn't any told you not to pin notes on people's backs?

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