Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Magic in the Lands of Caelereth => Topic started by: Rayne (Alýr) on 14 December 2009, 13:01:08



Title: Ounía - The Defining Part of the Magical Aura
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 14 December 2009, 13:01:08
This is a revised repost of a very old but apparently much-referenced entry  (http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php/topic,10582.0.html)I wrote a very long time ago. I would like to get this away from being an thread post that is referenced 1225 times and into an entry on the site.

NOTE: This entry would require changes to the Xeua entry currently on the site. I plan on undergoing a revision of that entry in the near future.

 I'm calling on Fox, Mina, and Twen for this entry!


Ounía - The Defining Part of the Magical Aura

An oún (plural ounía), along with “links” (xeuá), compose everything in the universe. An oún is a term used in Ximaxian magic which means “part,” and can be defined as a single “unit” of which all entities and structures consist. All oúnia have properties that manifest based on the connections it maintains with surrounding units. These properties are in turn associated with the oún’s element: earth, water, wind, or fire. More simply, an oún is a unit with the capability of producing properties that affect the cár’áll, the natural aura, in which it is contained. The links connecting it to surrounding oúnia determine to what degree these properties are manifested in the cár’áll: if an oún is connected primarily by soór (or active xeuá links) to other ounía the property will be expressed, and if it’s connected by ahm (or inactive écuá links) such properties won’t affect the cár’áll’s qualities. A mage manipulates, either directly or indirectly, both links and oún when casting a spell.

When connected through active, or soór, links, each oún has two types of properties they can manifest in the cár’áll: physical and spiritual. Physical effects are those that alter the physical qualities of a cár’áll, be it, for example, motion or temperature. Spiritual effects can only affect something with an individual and discernible will or spirit, namely something alive: a rock cannot be made to be happy or sad. The spiritual and physical properties manifest independent of one other, so making someone physically heavier does not directly cause a spiritual or emotional change.

The Elements
There are four elements: wind, water, earth, and fire. An oún will belong to one of these elements, and that element defines the possible properties an oún can express actively when in relation to other ounía forming a cár'áll. The nature of those properties, as imposed by the elements through the oún, are defined, in part, through the explanation of that element: according to the often cited elven principles mentioned in the Cárpa'dosían creation myth wind and earth are the primary elements and have a solid identity; water is wind trying to be earth and fire is earth trying to be wind in the eternal struggle of the elements. The Ximaxian theory of elemental interpretation is heavily influenced by this mythical elven point of view and deduces interesting consequences for elemental magical theory: wind and earth are stable in terms of their given realms of influence, their metaphysical place, while water and fire, extensions of wind and earth, suffer perennial instability because of their desires. Therefore, the properties of ounía are defined in one part from their base element (fire with earth and water with wind), and in second part from the expression of these desires for the opposing element (fire for wind and water for earth).

It can be said metaphorically that the ideas of wind and earth are identical to their voices, while the ideas of fire and water are not, and what is “voiced” by these elements are in fact attempts to express their desires and find direction in doing so. Heat, for example, is fire’s attempt to become more like wind, while cold is water trying to assume the solidity of earth. The instability of these elements also contributes to their relative chaotic/random properties (fire more than water because of the permanence of earth that water tries to manifest). This instability, however, is eternal, and fire will never become wind just as water will never become earth. It is important to mention the permanence of these chaotic states.

Spheres and Intensity
All Elemental magic is broken down into three spheres defined by the complexities of a spell and the ability and focus of the willpower, as well and the intensity of the elemental property expressed. In essence, the elemental spheres are broken down based on how they affect the way an oún manages its links, and a mage’s ability to manage those links through the ounía.

The first sphere involves expression of an oún’s elemental properties through turning the links around it from ahm to soór, or alternately through negation of an oún’s elemental properties (turning the links around it from soór to ahm). In these spells, a mage focuses upon the property she wishes to express or negate, and the links around the oún are compelled to change as a byproduct of her willpower. Thus, the willpower affects the state of the links (as either ahm or soór) through focus on the oún. The mage does not control what other, surrounding ounía the target oún forges soór connections to: a fire mage, in enhancing the element of fire in a given cár’áll through the first sphere may strengthen a link with water oún, or wind oún, or earth oún. Usually the expression of these elements remains relatively constant within a cár’áll. Through Conservation of Voice, by turning the links around the targeted fire oún from ahm to soór, other links within the cár’áll will turn from soór to ahm. The elemental properties negated in the ahm link shift are again expressed in the new soór links they form with fire. Because the meta-state (or the state of the links which determines how readily the it will change) are ecua, or passive, they have little stay-power.

The second sphere involves expression of an oún’s elemental properties through, not just turning the surrounding links from ahm to soór, but creating those links with oún of its elemental type (thus water oún linking with water oún, wind oún linking with wind oún, etc.). In the negative, this involves not turning all links from ahm to soór (as in the first sphere), but specifically targeting those between oún of the same element (turning links between two ounía of the same type from soór to ahm). This requires a greater amount of precision than in sphere I spells, and yields a greater intensity in the property expressed. In sphere II spells, the resulting effect is not just the result of independent oún expressing a given property, but a collection of active oún tied to and supporting one another, without the expressed property being diluted through soór connections with other elements. While the meta-state are still ecua, as in sphere I, the number of links changed makes the effects slightly longer-lasting. The precision required by the mage to manipulate the elemental ounía in this way requires more focused willpower than in sphere I.

The third sphere requires the most of the elemental mage, because links are not simply being converted from ahm to soór; the meta-state of the links must change as well. Links outside of the cár’áll are identified for not only being ahm in nature, but having a ecuán meta-state that makes them extremely difficult to change to soór. Ahm links are considered to be part of the cár’áll if they have an ecuán meta-state that makes them easily changed to soór, and so these links have a greater potential to affect the cár’áll. Spells in the third sphere must not only turn these outside links from ahm to soór, but change the meta-state of the link from xeuán to ecuán (therefore making them part of the cár’áll). Because the mage is “adding” more ounía to the cár’áll, the property expressed thus has greater intensity than either sphere I or sphere II. However, these spells also require the most from the mage in terms of strength and agility of willpower.

While Elemental magi generally affect links through the ounía (manipulating how ounía manage their links), Xeuá and Ecuá magi generally affect the properties of ounía through the manipulation of links. The effects are therefore similar; the process is simply reversed.

Elemental Interdependence
Properties create interdependence between elements. For every property an element has, another element (usually the opposition element) has an equal and opposite property. For example, fire may have the property of heat, but water will have the property of cold, and although earth may have the property of inertia, wind has the property of movement. To negate one property is to enhance the other. This means that the realms of all the elements overlap and interact.

Every element can control its “opposite property” to some degree. Fire magi can lessen heat to cool things down, just as earth magi can lessen inertia and cause motion; the control is very limited. When a fire mage, for example, lessens the prominence of his element, he makes the links connecting fire oún turn from soór to ahm. By the Conservation of Voice Principle, a cár’áll will necessarily maintain the same amount of soór and ahm contained within it. Thus, when the fire mage turns the links to ahm, soór links must replace what were ahm links. This includes links with water. However, because a fire mage can’t control water, or any of the other elements, he or she can’t directly regulate soór links to water to express coldness.

Although it isn’t common, there are occasionally times when two opposing elements both express opposing qualities in the same cár’áll. This is a very rare circumstance, because it not only requires the same amount of ounía for each element, but the same amount of soór links connecting them. Collisions of properties are thus extremely rare. In this situation, however, there are two possible behaviors. All elements fight for dominance in any cár’áll; the will keeps them balanced. However, more than dominance for a single property an element wants at least one of its properties expressed, so when neither element has its qualities expressed, it turns to expressing other qualities. For example, wind and earth are both expressing their particular property of motion and immobility but, because they both have the same amount influence over the cár’áll, don’t have their property expressed to the degree they seek, they turn to other properties—perhaps lightness in the case of wind and permanence in the case of earth. Another less possible outcome is an impact of sorts, where the two qualities collide and the impact bumps soór links to other elements, due to their chaotic or random properties.

Imprinting
Every oún is connected to all other oún through links, or xeuá. Many of these links are ahm (with xeuán meta-states). With any oún, these links may change, creating different effects and manifesting different properties. These various changes are imprinted on the oún itself, and provide a means to which (if one is gifted enough to identify the imprints of soór and ahm linkage to that oún and is able to translate them) could reveal the past. This process may take hours or even days to uncover a single event from the past, with more difficulty arising from trying to translate the ancient past.

Although determining the past can be difficult, the future is even more so, but possible. For those who use Ximax magic to try to predict the future, the task is one that takes a great deal of time and effort, but they claim its possibly due to the “shadow imprints” on an oún—the imprints xeuá have not yet made. The phenomenon is often described in this way: if you take a piece of parchment and draw a line on it in dark pen, it is easy to see—this is like a path through time and space an oún has followed. However, say it had not yet been followed. This would be like taking another strip of thin parchment and resting it on top of the first; now, you can no longer see the line. However, if you take both parchments and put them up to the light, you can vaguely distinguish the line through the parchment. This is the way in which the line can be read and translated. There are several margins of error, though, and often predictions are incorrect. Those who practice predicting the future through this means claim that the lines are often hard to see, and that sometimes it appears the line splits or goes a different direction, obscuring the real future.

Clerics of Seyella and Baveras’ Wills are far more adept at telling the future, and often the past, than the mages and scholars of Ximax. No one is quite sure why this is, though many scholars claim that those who keep their focus purely in prediction will naturally be better skilled at it. At Ximax, telling the future and predicting the past are skills only some schools share. The archschools both have such programs. Wind mages have a great advantage, though, because the oún on which a path best imprints is wind, perhaps due to properties of clarity. Wind mages equal and sometimes surpass the skill at which the archschools can predict.

Morality
The oún is the link between the spiritual and the physical, linking and uniting both these principles into a single, elegant unit. Many scholars stipulate that within oún exists the key to morality and defining the true measure of right and wrong if only we had the tools to extract this kind of information. Other scholars, on the other had, believe the oún already emits this quality, and we can sense it if only we try. The true measure of right and wrong, they say, is not sealed away in part of an oún, but is the oún itself. This leads to many questions of how oún can be manipulated to evil ends if they’re truly “moral,” to which, though many have debated on the subjects, many scholars familiar with elven metaphysics claim that the morality of an oún is hindered by its allegiance to the necessity of some events imposed on them by the links which connect them.

No one will ever truly know if these ideas about morality in oún are correct, and they remain part of high magic theory and pure speculation.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 15 December 2009, 04:29:36
A fascinating scholarly work on the oún, Rayne.  :) It explained much. While the first parts are very specific, the last two sections are more conjecture. I found it neat that Wind magi can possible read this imprint and can perhaps attain a divination skill of sorts. I feel that is something that has been lacking in Ximaxian magic. However, in the scope of the rest of the article, it seems a little bit like a whole other discussion on the philosophical aspects of the oún, as opposed to the technical explanations.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 15 December 2009, 06:46:55
That's a good observation, Azhira. Yes, it does seem to move from technical to more philosophical. Do you think perhaps the last two sections might belong in another entry? Or maybe just the second to last. I could see the bit about Morality fitting as a nice closer.

I only have difficulty in deciding where the other piece(s) might go. Perhaps an entry on divination? I'm not entirely sure...


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 15 December 2009, 23:25:52
I think the Morality section is a nice closer, I agree. I think all of it can be in the same entry. Maybe just have a different title when moving into the more philosophical/unknown aspects of the oun discussion. That way the reader knows what is technical and when the text moves into more conjecture. All of it talks about the oun, so it is all relevant in some manner. Just divide the entry into separate sections. Maybe a intro leading into the Retention part somehow.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Mina on 15 December 2009, 23:28:44
I'm not very clear on what exactly meta-states are.  I suppose they will be explained in the revision of the Xeua entry? 

As Azhira said, the last two sections do seem to have a somewhat different tone from the rest of the entry, although since they are still about ounia, it should probably be fine to keep them here.  An entry on divination sounds like a good idea though.   :)


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Fox on 16 December 2009, 07:09:22
Mina, check Rayne's Enchantment entry for an explanation on Meta-states. Essentially, a meta-state is the natural tendency of a link to stay ahm, stay soor, or desire to become the other. A link that desires to stay ahm will be much more difficult to change to soor, but one that has a meta-state that causes it to be susceptible to change will be much easier to alter.


Regarding the entry as is, I personally see nothing wrong with it. The last two sections might be a little different, but not so much as to take me out of reading the entry, and I think they fit fine. Afterall, ounia are fairly undefinable scientifically as it is, so there's no reason both the technical and the philosophical can't fit into the same entry.



Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 16 December 2009, 07:40:23
hmmm ... so a real world example of meta-states might be inertia? As it is the tendency of an object to be still or keep on moving at the same speed (if I remember my physics from back in the late 80's early 90's correctly).


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 16 December 2009, 12:37:04
In a way, Deklitch, but not completely.

A link with a xeuan meta-state will tend to stay as it is. This would be the concept of inertia in a way. A link with an ecuan meta-state would tend to change. The tendency to change does not mean it will necessarily change, but change has a higher probability and, for a mage, a link with an ecuan meta-state is easier to manipulate.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Mina on 16 December 2009, 13:32:59
Quote
Mina, check Rayne's Enchantment entry for an explanation on Meta-states.
Ah, it seems I somehow missed that entry.  I shall go have a look. 


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Mina on 08 January 2010, 18:51:45
Well, I've had another look at this entry.  Don't really have much to say about it that hasn't already been said though.  I'm pretty sure I understand it, and it doesn't really seem to contradict what I know about Ximaxian magic.  But since you mentioned deepening people's understanding of ounia, perhaps it would be a good idea to test it on some of the non-magic people to make sure it is sufficiently clear to them? 


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 08 January 2010, 23:56:09
I know Eldor glanced through the entry, but I'm not sure if it was more this entry or more my explanations that turned the lightbulb on.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Eldor Delrossa on 09 January 2010, 02:09:52
It was kind of a little bit of both, but I would have eventually understood it while trying to drive myself crazy. Someone who had no idea how the system worked...they might understand it, but I had to ask A LOT of questions until I finally understood it. So, would I be correct in saying that this is how professors at Ximax would explain the Spheres to their students.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 17 January 2010, 01:18:31
Coren reminded me of this entry, which I had sort of lost track of.  :buck:

I have made edits and tried to clean up the prose to make it more readable. If there are still parts that seem a bit obscure, please point them out and I will try to see if I have re-word it in a more coherent, clear way.
 :heart:


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 02 March 2010, 04:06:41
Another BUMP for Coren and/or Magic Mods!!

INTEGRATE!


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 17 July 2010, 06:09:05
I'm not sure how active you still are Rayne, but I noticed that you last checked the boards just a couple of days ago so I thought I'd comment on the few things I noticed while reading over your entry.

First off, I'd like to start by complimenting you on the entry as a whole.  Its beautifully written, well thought out, and quite easy to read through.  You really are as excellent of a writer as the rumors I have heard suggest.

Now down to the critique:

Every now and then, I noticed that you referred to elemental Earth's solidity a bit loosely, using it as an overarching term to describe all the properties associated with it.  Solidity, however, refers solely to Earth's tendency to create physical hardness, firmness, and rigidity, none of which really reflect what you are describing.  I've highlighted the following passages to show you more specifically what I mean.

Quote
The solidity of earth, while a property, is also a quality. Earth oún generally resist changing state, and impose the quality of stability on the links connected to it to make changes more difficult.

The property that refers to Earth's desire to resist change is not its firmness, hardness or rigidity, as the use of solidity implies, but rather is more accurately attributed to Earth's permanence (which describes its resistance to change) or the stability/order it imposes through permanence.

Quote
For example, fire may have the property of heat, but water will have the property of cold, and although earth may have the property of solidity, wind has the property of movement.

Again here, earth's property of solidity is not the opposite of wind's property of movement.  Again, I'd suggest using either permanence or inertia.

Quote
Fire magi can lessen heat to cool things down, just as earth magi can lessen stability and cause motion; the control is very limited.

I'd suggest replacing stability with motionlessness or inertia or another property along those lines that is a more direct 'opposite' to motion.  

Quote
Heaviness is a quality of fire oún which is not a property and does not necessary effect the links connecting it, but which causes the oún to generally stay close to the earth. Lightness, similarly, is a quality of water that keeps it suspended in wind.

Qualities define the natural tendencies of elements, but can be overcome based on the behavior of other elements to which an oún is connected. Fire, although light, can become actively connected to earth and stay close to the ground.


Another thing I noticed is in the above quotation.  These fragments of paragraphs quite directly contradict one another.  I believe you accurately conveyed what you meant to say in the first two sentences as you refer to fire as earth (and thus heavy) trying to become wind and water as wind (thus light) trying to become earth.  Imagining the elements as a layered cake, earth would be on the bottom, with fire above it, water above that, and wind serving as the frosting.  If you flip the example in the second section around the problem should be solved.

Finally, as a matter of personal preference more than a required change, would it be possible to elaborate a bit more on the sections dealing with Sphere II and Sphere III?  In each, you leave out some major features of control over the oun that the mage obtains at that level.  For example, in Sphere II, you discuss how a mage is able to forge new bonds between two ounia of his element, but fail to mention how he is also able to re-arrange the position of ounia of his element within an object.  To conceptualize it loosely, I imagine this would be accomplished through the severing and releasing of bonds at distinct points around the oun.  Think for example, a ball suspended in their air by two bands on opposite sides pulling against one another.  So long as both bands are there, the ball will remain fixed in place as the force exuded by one cancels out that of the other.  However, if you were to cut one of the bands, the net force would no longer be zero, and the ball would be tugged in the direction of the remaining band.  Similarly, in Sphere III, you fail to mention how a mage is able to 'implant' a foreign oun of his element into an object.  

Other than these few things, all I noticed was an occasional typo and grammatical error that, if you'd like, I could go through and highlight for you at some point.  Once the few issues that I brought up are addressed, I see no reason why this entry couldn't be blarrowed and integrated, unless there are issues Coren, Mina or Fox find that I have missed.    


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 19 July 2010, 02:11:24
Hi - just a reminder that the grey section is not meant to be uploaded:

Quote
NOTE2: I have included the section of Properties and Qualities more as reference than anything else. This section created the most confusion, and I hope the new section I added--Spheres and Intensity--has obviated the need for this one. I include it anyway as a means of reference (it is grayed out as a way of showing that I don't mean for it to be included in the actual entry).


:)


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 19 July 2010, 10:28:29
In that case scratch the one comment I made concerning that section from necessary changes.

Edit1:  I don't really understand the purpose of "greying" the section out instead of outright deleting it, but alright.  Before this gets blarrowed you should physically delete it from the entry.  

Edit2:  For convenience's sake, I double checked and only the first quote and the last quote I mentioned are in that greyed out section.  Everything else still stands as things that need to be addressed.  


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Drasil Razorfang on 21 August 2010, 11:41:21
Bump.  I'll give Rayne another couple of days before I go ahead and finish this myself. 


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 21 August 2010, 17:38:54
The best way to reach her would be to send her an email :) (If you don't know her email address, drop me a PM)


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 19 February 2011, 11:52:21
From somewhere in the inky blackness of another night in the sullen, cavernous towers comprising the Magic Forums, a tender sound rustles away the silence. Nearly indistinguishable, it sounds at first like dry grass, dry paper, then the soft sough of a bird--a paper bird, that whistles through the towers and unfolds elegantly in a letter, written neatly by the hand of an elven scholar:

Dear Drasil,

Please find the revision of my entry included. Forgive me that it has been so long, and in my travels I have left so much undone.

Thank you for the compliments on my prose. In an entry such as this one, so recondite and yet also so rudimentary, I wished to elucidate, not complicate, to the best of my ability. I still believe the entry as a whole is somewhat confusing, but perhaps there are aspects of the content that no manipulation of form can clearly present.

In regards to your critique of the second and third sphere: I believe that the explanation of these spheres, particularly the second sphere, has perhaps been taken too far, and is somewhat deceptive. It assumes a rather insistent physical dimension I don't feel is worth credence. Oun and cár’áll are not, in the end, entirely physical--if they are physical at all. We say that cár’áll is the "natural astral aura of all things or beings"-- we call it "magical energy" and say it is an "aura." If cár’áll is really such a spiritual or incorporeal entity, why do we say it is made up of "parts" that are so stubbornly physical, and act in such stubbornly physical ways?

In world of ounia and cár’allia I envision is less physical and more spiritual. I feel we need to move away from the visualization of ounia as physical balls connected by strings, and move more toward a conceptualization that presses against the laws of physics a little. Let us not say that xeuá may be long or short depending on how far away two ounia are. Let us instead talk about the quality of that xeuá, give it a binary quality that allows a simpler, cleaner, and yet more intriguing view of Ximaxian magic that, like the magic of Nybelmar, makes us reconsider possibilities.

Forgive me if I seem to pontificate. What I propose is not the complete restructuring of a magic system--even the explanation of the second sphere as physical units being moved into close proximity is still somewhat valid as a elementary conceptualization--but a tweaking that adds a level of simplicity and sophistication to this system of magic--a system that is unfortunately somewhat confused by the collection of so many interpretations, misinterpretations, and reinterpretations.

I intend to revise those entries that need revising--most blatantly the Xeuá; the fallacies in that entry are purely mine, and I take responsibility for emending them.

Please let me know your thoughts, and if you would like to discuss this in some more immediate medium. I am also not opposed to bringing in other magic experts and novices into the fold. It is important, I think, to view our subject, not as some esoteric and high-brow pursuit of a select few, but the plenary goal of a community, of a kind of guild in which those who know should ensure knowledge to those who wish to learn.

I eagerly await your reply.

Sincerely,
Rayne


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Alexandre Scriabin on 19 February 2011, 15:44:31
Quote
In regards to your critique of the second and third sphere: I believe that the explanation of these spheres, particularly the second sphere, has perhaps been taken too far, and is somewhat deceptive. It assumes a rather insistent physical dimension I don't feel is worth credence. Oun and cár’áll are not, in the end, entirely physical--if they are physical at all. We say that cár’áll is the "natural astral aura of all things or beings"-- we call it "magical energy" and say it is an "aura." If cár’áll is really such a spiritual or incorporeal entity, why do we say it is made up of "parts" that are so stubbornly physical, and act in such stubbornly physical ways?

If I might try conversing with the All Mighty Rayne about magic and propose a solution for these apparent rifts in concept that you have highlighted, I would propose that the rifts are there and  they are appropriate, because the practice of Ximaxian magic should provide some leeway for personal magical philosophy.

Did that make sense, or should I try being more specific or give examples?

By the way, this is a prolific revision and I would like to see this up so that you can go on and revise the Xeua entry.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 19 February 2011, 16:25:55
If I might try conversing with the All Mighty Rayne about magic...
I do not know if your intention in the use of this epithet was to be condescending or obsequious; neither will elicit favor from me, and neither portrays you in a flattering light. With the utmost sincerity, I advise that, for the sake of civil and egalitarian discussion, you avoid such address.

As to your point...

My lover's eyes are like the sun, because like the sun, they are bright and fill the world with light; but my lover's eyes do not cause UV radiation, and I do not burn my retina to gaze into them.

My imagination is like a bird, because like a bird, my imagination soars freely; but my imagination does not run into windows or relieve itself on your newly-cleaned car.

Analogies and metaphors can be more than just convenient learning tools; they can also be poignant and thoughtful. However, it is important to note where the similarities stop so as to not to cause any misunderstandings.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Alexandre Scriabin on 19 February 2011, 19:46:22
I do not know if your intention in the use of this epithet was to be condescending or obsequious; neither will elicit favor from me, and neither portrays you in a flattering light. With the utmost sincerity, I advise that, for the sake of civil and egalitarian discussion, you avoid such address.

As to your point...

My lover's eyes are like the sun, because like the sun, they are bright and fill the world with light; but my lover's eyes do not cause UV radiation, and I do not burn my retina to gaze into them.

My imagination is like a bird, because like a bird, my imagination soars freely; but my imagination does not run into windows or relieve itself on your newly-cleaned car.

Analogies and metaphors can be more than just convenient learning tools; they can also be poignant and thoughtful. However, it is important to note where the similarities stop so as to not to cause any misunderstandings.

Um... That was a compliment Rayne. I've been reading some of your entries for a while now and the reference was a playful gesture towards the magnitude of your magical expertise. I think I can speak for several of us here when I say that we kind of idolize you, and miss you when you're gone.

As for your reference to analogies, I am kind of confused. Would you mind elucidating me as to what that has to do with the topic?


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 19 February 2011, 23:10:19
Rayne ... an elegantly written entry as per normal, full of information about magic. Just one question ... and this is about the very last word of the entry ... 'stipulation'. Does stipulation fit there? I thought speculation might have fitted there better, but I'm not sure. A point of Aura to you for this entry, Rayne, and I hope we get many more such entries in the future ... maybe we could also work on getting the Ximax City entry finished?  :cool:


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 20 February 2011, 00:47:56
Too grand a title, I think, Mr. Scriabin. Idolization is certainly too much, and I am not deserving. I will say that I appreciate such a feeling has not deterred your inquiries, which I will gladly address:

Let me pull back a bit from my analogy of analogies. If I understand you right, you bring up the point that the metaphor doesn't matter so much, because Ximaxian magic as a philosophical system allows room for interpretation. However, the problem we have on the site is that, because of a certain metaphor used, people are explaining magic in a way that contradicts how we see the system to actually work. People have, to some degree, taken the metaphor too far, and now attribute properties and qualities to essential elements--like Ounia and Xeua--that they do not necessarily have.

Of course there is room for these interpretations, but unfortunately assuming properties of this type cause contradiction down the road. Magic is already somewhat obscure, which is perhaps why we have so few people who know the system or are even willing to begin learning it at this point.

I will say, also, that when personal philosophies stray too far, they form new philosophies of magic--ones which are separate from the Ximaxian system. I have no problem with people cogitating upon a personalized system, but my task it to create more or less a consistent and demotic philosophy.

I hope my point is a tad more lucid now. Let me know if you would prefer further discussion.


Dek, thank you! You are completely right--good catch! I have changed the word. And yes, I suppose it is time to return to that looming project at long last.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 23 February 2011, 05:49:13
Ok, read the whole entry as well now again, some comments here, Rayne!

- Basically this is quite a brilliant entry, covering pretty much everything that is important to know about ounía. It's not the easiest topic, so it requires some thinking, but I guess everything that we've discussed dozens of times in the past made it into these explanations and is written as precise as it can be - and there are even more interesting things that open up the imagination for more magical ideas! :)

- The title could have a short explanation as the caption, and we usually have the entry written for the singular word. Like: "The Oún, the Elemental Part of the Magical Aura" or something like that...

- What could perhaps be stressed a bit more in the explanation of the sphere parts is the tendency of the ounía to revert back to the original state the lower the sphere - as a rule of thumb. But obviously the "meta-state" is important here as well.

- Speaking about that meta-state: I see that in the reply to the post there were also questions about the meta-state - and indeed I think as well this isn't explained very well looking at this entry alone. Maybe you can try to explain the meta-state thingy a bit better as you did in your replies further down (even if it's only done in a footnote)?

- The Retention section is very interesting! Though it is more of an own discipline perhaps, which can also be intuitively mastered I'd say - gifted people who can predict past and future might be able to see via interpreting ounía retention (technically described). Or maybe "mirroring"/"reflection" or something of that sort would fit better, so that it is implied that future and past can show in an oún. "Retention" sounds more like an oún only has the past state in it to be interpreted.

Cool idea at any rate to describe the art of clairvoyance that way - though of course a Ximaxian technical approach cannot compete with the intuition of those who just read the - for them - obvious signs due to their "gift".

Ok, so far my comments, Rayne, and an aura +1 for the super detailed entry, which should finally make it on site within the next weeks I hope!  :cool:


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 27 February 2011, 03:43:32
I believe I have integrated all the comments into the entry, though please take a look an ensure I have done this correctly and to a satisfactory degree. And thank you for taking a look at this entry, Artimidor!


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 06 March 2011, 00:39:51
Great entry, Rayne! Wow - reading over this again makes me feel nostalgic ;) I recall the original version - how long ago was that? 4, 5 years? - and the ensuing discussions, and its various re-incarnations over the years...

I think I mentioned this when I uri-checked your Enchantment entry last year, but I am blown away by the concept of meta-states! I just cannot believe this concept has been missing for so long! Like most great ideas, it seems so obvious as soon as it is presented... Not only does it provide such a neat explanation for something we have for a long time sensed but struggled to express, but also because it opens up so many possibilities! Definitely an "Aha! That's it!" moment :D

I especially like the suggestion that it is the meta-state which creates the separation, "veil", between individual carallia. (Or perhaps I should say: "which creates the illusion of indiviual carallia?) Speaking of this, I think I may have spotted a typo in that paragraph?

Quote
Links outside of the cár’áll are identified for not only being ahm in nature, but having a ecuán [should this read "xeuan" instead?] meta-state that makes them extremely difficult to change to soór. Ahm links are considered to be part of the cár’áll if they have an ecuán meta-state that makes them easily changed to soór, and so these links have a greater potential to affect the cár’áll. Spells in the third sphere must not only turn these outside links from ahm to soór, but change the meta-state of the link from xeuán to ecuán (therefore making them part of the cár’áll).

Looking forward to your xeua entry!




EDIT: Just noticed this:

Quote
Wind mages equal and sometimes surpass the skill at which (with which?) the archschools can predict.


Title: Re: Ounía
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 09 March 2011, 04:17:34
Some small things only, which aren't properly English:

Quote
Because the meta-state (or the state of the links which determines how readily the it will change) are ecua, or passive, they have little stay-power.

Quote
While the meta-state are still ecua, as in sphere I, the number of links changed makes the effects slightly longer-lasting.

Guess other than that we can add this entry to our collection of key entries on site!  :thumbup: Finally :)


Title: Re: Ounía - The Defining Part of the Magical Aura
Post by: Rayne (Alýr) on 10 March 2011, 13:30:36
Forgive this request, but may we delay this entry a little longer? It might be helpful to integrate Coren's piece on Properties, and I have a few lingering issues I would like to untangle before I potentially dig myself into a deeper hole.


Title: Re: Ounía - The Defining Part of the Magical Aura
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 10 March 2011, 16:01:36
Ok then, just take your time, Rayne!  :thumbup: