Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 13 April 2010, 18:36:28



Title: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 13 April 2010, 18:36:28
The Great Maul


Overview:

Great Mauls are weapons generally used by strong warriors. With devastating power when used correctly, the Maul can break bones and cause grievous bodily harm without even breaking the armour. One of the most effective weapons against plate armour, the Maul can be considered as a sort of militarised sledgehammer.


Description:
Great Mauls are made up of a heavy block of metal atop a long wooden shaft. The look of the head of the maul varies depending on the race it was made by; Human mauls almost always have a steel or iron block on a thick wooden shaft, while Dwarven ones often have the entire maul made out of the same metal; usually iron or steel, but some have even been known to be made of the rare mithril and decorated with fine gold runes and patterns! Some  have one or more spikes on the back. Shafts lengths can range anywhere from one ped to two peds, two fores, and are mostly made of woods. Some of the best woods are Ironwood and cherry, though most hardwoods are acceptable.

According to the few people to have seen them and lived to tell the tale, there are also varieties that are used by the larger races such as Trolls and Ogres, as these giants can carry a massive maul with one hand. Loch-Oc Orcs are also known to use Mauls, especially those that have spikes on them. Most varieties have a leather thong attached to the end of the shaft to ensure warriors don’t drop their weapon.


Usage:
Many races use a variation of the Great Maul. Humans and dwarves most commonly use them however. Elves rarely use this weapon, as it is too bulky for the nimble fighting style they are used to. Avennorians and Shendar are rarely seen using the Maul. As mentioned above Orcs (especially Losh-Oc), Trolls and Ogres also use the Great Maul, and though they are the weapon of choice for dwarves- being Urtengor's own favoured weapon-, the Kurakim are especially proficient with them, as are many Erpheronian warriors who are more thick set than their kinsmen.


Fighting Style:
Great Mauls are more cumbersome than most weapons, if not the most, but they can still pack a powerful punch, especially against multiple enemies. When facing more than one foe, the wielder swings the maul as hard as they can from side to side, keeping them from getting close enough to attack. The long shaft is what allows this to happen, and so we come to one of the greatest assets of the Maul; the reach. Sometimes this tactic can be used against a single enemy, but more often the user of the maul will lift it to head height and bring it crashing down, before lifting it and quickly repeating the process, until their adversary makes a mistake. They are able to do this for long periods of time having had to train for long hours in order to be able to access the upper body strength essential to use this weapon.
Great Mauls are not the weapon of choice for most warriors. They are too heavy and unwieldy, leaving only those with immense strength able to use them efficiently.


Origin/History:
The true origins of the Great Maul are lost in the mists of time, but an Erpheronian legend common in the area around Voldar tells of a time, during the Battle of Four Swords, when a farm blacksmith, by the name of Sydus Goth, roused to the defense of his farmstead, led the counter-attack against the orcs wielding his sledgehammer. His awesome muscles and familiarity with the balance and use of the tool allowed him to use it to devastating effect and the orcs were routed. After the battle, Sydus realised just how formidable a weapon he carried and set about enlarging the head and studding it with nails in case of another orc attack. The legend goes that a mere three hours after the completion of the transformation of the hammer from tool to weapon a larger orc force attacked the farmstead, but were once again defeated by the simple peasant folk, emboldened by the sight of Sydus' devastating hammer. Similar legends exist across the length and breadth of the disc of Caelereth.

One of the compendium experts on dwarves, Bard Judith, provided the following explanation:
The dwarves of Northern Sarvonia, who have been using hammers as their warweapons for literally thousands of years, claim that the Great Maul originated with their tribe back in the dawn of their history.  In the colder wastes of the North where forge hammers and sledge hammers rang day and night under the icy rocks to carve out their living caverns, and where axes were rarely used due to the dearth of large trees, slowly the hammer became their symbol.  The tool of choice, it would have come readily to hand if icewolves attacked or a wandering band of orcs encountered a work party of dwarves... and so, simply and easily, the dwarven hammer took on its fighting connotations.   The handle was lengthened, the striking face made more convex, and the shaft given inset rings so that the weapon could be slung on a strap across the back. By the time humans encountered the northern Thergerim, the hammer was already an omnipresent part of their aboveground attire, as unremarkable as the eating knife or nailstudded rock boots... but a novelty to the human tribes, who seized on this simple but practical tool and adapted it for their own physique and fighting style.

How the use of the Great Maul spread is unknown, and there may have been many factors, but some things are for sure: this weapon, while primitive, can be devastating in battle and its use is still widespread.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 13 April 2010, 23:23:49
Hey M'ruk!

I don't profess to be an expert on Santharian weapons or how the entries should be written, but it seems to me that you have a bit of a contradiction in your Origin section. First you say the origin has been lost and then that "records" exist. Surley it would be better to say "The true origins of the warhammer are lost in the mists of time, but a human legend common in the area around Voldar tells of a time, early in the [insert name of war], when a farm blacksmith, by the name of Sydus Goth, roused to the defense of his farmstead, led the counter-attack against the orcs wielding his smithy hammer. His awesome muscles and familiarity with the balance and use of the tool allowed him to use it to devastating effect and the orcs were routed. After the battle, Sydus realised just how formidable a weapon he carried and set about enlarging the head and studding it with nails in case of another orc attack. The legend goes that a bare three hours after the completion of the transformation of the hammer from tool to weapon a larger orc force attacked the farmstead, but were once again defeated by the simple peasant folk, emboldened by the sight of Sydus' devastating hammer. Similar legends exist across the length and breadth of Santharia, if not Sarvonia or even the entire disc of Caelereth." This avoids the contradiction implicit and gives the sense that this legend was chosen almost at random from a multitude of similar ones - but please don't think I'm trying to write the entry for you! Feel free to lift this, change it a bit, change it a lot, use it only as a basic framework or even ignore me altogether.

Hope my ramblings helped a bit.

Athviaro


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 14 April 2010, 00:27:08
Thanks for looking to help, Athvario, but this isn't all mine. I merely copied and pasted this from an old thread, and am in the process of revising/rewriting/paraphrasing it. Also, the posticon means it is a work in progress, so please don't comment yet.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 14 April 2010, 01:27:33
Ok, ladies and gentlemen, this entry is now ready for comments.

Fire away!


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 14 April 2010, 02:10:16
You asked for comments, and I deliver

The Warhammer

Overview:

Warhammers are a weapon generally used by strong warriors in combat. With devastating power when used correctly, the Warhammer can break bones and cause blunt-force trauma Too scientific I'm afraid. To borrow a page from one of my favourite authors "grievous bodily harm" sounds much better. without even breaking the armour. Best against plate armour, when it is studded with spikes the warhammer's damage-dealing potential increases greatly.


Description:
Warhammers are made up of a heavy block of metal atop a long wooden shaft. The look of the head of the warhammer varies depending on the race it was made by; Dwarven warhammers are usually made of very strong alloysthis seems a little on the anachronism side, and the whole section isn't very well structured. It resembles a list as much as anything else, and needs a space somewhere to break it up, some have even known to be made of mithril, and are decorated with fine gold runes and patterns.Like what? Human warhammers are much the same, but less finely crafted and are usually very plain. If they're much the same, what makes them different? Do humans not use the same materials in their hammers?
SPACE
There are also varieties that are used by the larger races such as Trolls and Ogres, as these giants can carry a massive warhammer with one hand. Orcs are also known to use warhammers, especially those studded with spikes. Most varieties usually usually have a leather thong attached to the end of the shaft to ensure warriors don’t drop their weapon. We could use something in here about dimensions or weight. At the moment we really know nothing about what this weapon might looks like. Materials for the handle (not all wood is good wood after all) or for the head would be a good idea


Usage:
Many races use a variation of the warhammer. Humans and dwarves most commonly use them however. Elves rarely use this weapon, as it is too bulky for the nimble fighting style they are used to. As mentioned above Orcs, Trolls and Ogres also use the warhammer, and even Halflings have been seen to wield them.I doubt this one about as much as elves. Halflings aren't a physically strong or violent race. Anything a halfling could use as a weapon to hurt someone likely wasn't designed explicitly to injure other people. Knives, slings (and hob-bows) are all lighter weapons that could be used for something more practical and peaceful.

That aside, who? There has to be a tribe somewhere that would prefer these. And be sure you do your reading. I'd hate to think of a Shendar or a Zirghurim using one of these, to say nothing of Avennorians.


Fighting Style:
Warhammers are more cumbersome than most weapons, if not the most, but they can still pack a powerful punch, especially against multiple enemies. When facing more than one foe, the wielder swings the warhammer as hard as they can from side to side, keeping them from getting close enough to attack. The long shaft is what allows this to happen, and so we come to one of the greatest assets of the warhammer; the reach. Sometimes this tactic can be used against a single enemy, but more often the user of the warhammer will lift it above their headNot a very practical sort of attack, since it leaves your whole chest open to anyone who cares to put a knife into it, to say nothing of your arms. It would also be tiring. The process you might consider is this. Lift the head to shoulder height. Bash something (doesn't matter what, as long as you hit something) repeat.  and bring it crashing down, before lifting it and quickly repeating the process, until their adversary makes a mistake. They are able to do this for long periods of time- having had to train for long hours in order to be able to access the upper body strength essential to this weapon- but if they start to tire and their foe seems to show no sign of it, they can choose one of three options; continue, throw the warhammer, Or simply drop the weapon seems easier in the long run.or leap forwardThis really doesn't seem practical at all, I mean, leaping around is the sort of thing you see in cartoons, and you're already tired. and smash the head of their enemy. The first option is the safest but the least likely to gain victory. Besides leaving the wielder of the hammer unarmedYou'd really only carry one weapon? Not even a dagger? and vulnerable if they miss, the second option has another problem. Warhammers are very heavy, so are difficult to throw powerfully and accurately. The third option leaves the warrior vulnerable if they miss and as they jump.

All have problems, which is why warhammers are not the weapon of choice for most warriors. They are too heavy and unwieldy, leaving only those with immense strength able to use them efficiently. Those that can, however, become legends. One such example is Zigilrak the  as a rule, nicknames are usually short. Zigilrak doesn't sound like a human so perhaps specify the tribe, since Milkengrad has several races that dwell there with their own Fratrae.WarHammer, a famous and much feared fratric leader of Milkengrad,When? who struck fear into the enemies wielding this formidable weapon.


Pros:

    * Very heavy, so it can pack a huge punch when used correctlyHow heavy?
    * Difficult to fight againstHow?
    * Simple to make
    * Spikes can be added to pierce armourWhy would you worry about piercing the armor if the point of the weapon is that it doesn't need to?
   * Blunt, so it can cause a lot of blunt-force trauma without even breaking the armour


Cons:

    * Very Heavy, so it is difficult to use for long periods of time
    * Clumsy, so it is difficult to use against multiple enemiesHey! Wait! What was this then? "especially against multiple enemies" (it's highlighted in yellow up there)
    * The shaft is easy to break Surely someone has figured out a way around this?
    * Blunt, so if thick enough armour is worn than the warhammer is uselessThis doesn't seem like it would be a factor. A hammer like this seems that it would have enough weight to ignore the armor. Or that enough armor to ignore a warhammer blow would be excessive.

Kill this list, with fire. Write it in sentences please.
Origin/History:

The true origins of the warhammer are lost in the mists of time, but a human legend common in the area around Voldar tells of a time, early in one of the Sarvonian wars, when a farm blacksmith, by the name of Sydus Goth, roused to the defense of his farmstead, led the counter-attack against the orcs wielding his smithy hammer. His awesome muscles and familiarity with the balance and use of the tool allowed him to use it to devastating effect and the orcs were routed. After the battle, Sydus realised just how formidable a weapon he carried and set about enlarging the head and studding it with nails in case of another orc attack. The legend goes that a mere three hours after the completion of the transformation of the hammer from tool to weapon a larger orc force attacked the farmstead, but were once again defeated by the simple peasant folk, emboldened by the sight of Sydus' devastating hammer. Similar legends exist across the length and breadth of Santharia, if not Sarvonia or even the entire disc of Caelereth.This is going to call for at least one more myth I think. Nybelmar or Northern Sarvonia.

How the use of the warhammer spread is unknown, and there may have been many factors, but some things are for sure: this weapon, while primitive, can be devastating in battle and its use is still widespread.

You need some work here it seems M'ruk. Color the bits that you've already added, if you don't mind, and then colour the changes. I've changed your icon back to the pencil. Which does not exclude you from being commented on if someone notices a glaring inaccuracy or contradiction and wants to make sure you catch it before putting the exclamation up.

That being said, there's plenty of contradictions and problems here that I've pointed out. And the entry skimps on details, which is never a good thing.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Seeker on 14 April 2010, 02:25:38
M'ruk

Well done, it will certainly be nice to get this basic weapon up on the site after all this time.  So Aura +1 from me because I like to see these weapons get done.  :grin:  

Just a couple of comments from my end:

Quote
Best against plate armour, when it is studded with spikes the warhammer's damage-dealing potential increases greatly.

I would remove the part about it being best against plate armour.  One, it doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the sentence. and two, it is not really accurate.  the hammer is best against bare skin, then maybe clothed skin, then maybe chain mail, leather armour etc working ones way up to plate armour.


Quote
Most varieties usually usually have a leather thong

One usually too many.


Also be aware there already is a short description and picture of a warhammer being wielded by a dwarf in the Dwarf Tools & Weapons  (http://www.santharia.com/races/dwarven_tools.htm) entry .  So just keep that entry in mind if you make any changes to the description.

Finally please take Valan's comments.  Valan is like a warhammer, blunt and deadly, but he is also accurate.  I hate to imagine what will happen if he upgrades to spikes.  :shocked:


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 14 April 2010, 03:46:52
Point taken M'ruk. I know you were just revising it, but didn't think that was any reason not to post. Plese don't think it was a criticism (or if so, completely constructive), I was just pointing it out to you, and meant no offence. I see you still used it - I hope it's up to scratch, and I'm sorry the last part drew Valan's ire - I should have seen it coming. Maybe cut it to "the length and breadth of Sarvonia". But it's your entry.

Athviaro


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 14 April 2010, 04:20:54
No, I should thank you Athviaro. I don't mind you pointing it out at all, and thanks for the constructive points you gave me. And I'm definitely keeping the last part. In fact, I'm relishing the chance to write another story!


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 14 April 2010, 19:19:29
Ok, ready for comments again. Comments addressed in lime green.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 14 April 2010, 20:47:08

Finally please take Valan's comments.  Valan is like a warhammer, blunt and deadly, but he is also accurate.  I hate to imagine what will happen if he upgrades to spikes.  :shocked:

Easy! Let's not let that get to his head.  :buck:

*adds some soft moss to the Valan-Hammer to soften his blows once in awhile*


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 14 April 2010, 20:55:30
Quote
To this day, a warhammer is also called a 'kemruhnt' in this area of Sarvonia
Otherwise it sounds like the whole world knows this legend...


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 14 April 2010, 21:13:51
It's known as kemruhnt to all dwarves


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 14 April 2010, 22:18:55
Khemrhunt is the Thergerim for warhammer, but I expect that the precise spelling is limited to dwarves on Sarvonia. Styrash varies between Sarvonia and Nybelmar (for various reasons) but it would stand to reason that the Nybelmarian dwarves might not be using Thergerim the same way as their Sarvonian cousins either.

Quote
(as are many Shendar warriors who use lumps of rock for the heads).
Sorry if you didn't get what I'd been saying, Shendar would certainly not use a warhammer. They live in a desert, and lugging around a big lump of rock would be a waste of resources. They also have those frightening double kilij (http://santharia.com/weapons/double_kilij.htm) and the bane whip (http://santharia.com/weapons/bane_whip.htm) to use as weapons, which makes everything else look wasteful I think.

If you're looking for a human tribe with that sort of martial tradition, the Erpheronians are a sure bet. They've fought with just about every tribe in southern Sarvonia at one point or another.



Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 14 April 2010, 23:06:21
Quote
It's known as a khemrhunt to all dwarves

Sorry, my mistake, but in that case say "To this day, the Dwarven word for 'warhammer' is 'khemrhunt'."

Avoids ambiguity - not everyone will know the Dwarven tongue off pat!

Athviaro


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 14 April 2010, 23:46:16
More comments please. Last ones were incorporated in teal.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 15 April 2010, 00:36:30
My last nitpicks, and then I'll consider for blarrowing.
Quote
early in one of the Sarvonian wars
Which one. The First and Second Sarvonian Wars were fought between men and elves (for the most part). while the Third brought the orcs South of the Tandalas in great numbers. However, it was a while before they reached into the Vardynn province, most of their early attacks were aimed towards Nermerran by default, since it was in the way. Take a look at the description of the Battle of Four Swords, which seems an ideal time for a smith to improvise such a weapon. The battle is close enough that some of the outlying settlements around Jernais might have been threatened by orcs that broke from the main battle.

Quote
metal; usually iron ore steel,
There's another way to produce steel? I was given to understand that steel was an alloy of iron with carbon. However, we do have several types (http://santharia.com/resources/metals_of_caelereth.htm) of iron. You might wish to send a PM to Bard Judith, our resident (more-or-less) expert on all things dwarven about the various shades of iron being used to produce steel. Take a look at Fyrite while you're there, it might be important on the handle of an all metal hammer.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 15 April 2010, 01:03:10
Oops, I meant iron OR steel.  :rolleyes:

Will add any further changes in brown.

I can't seem to find anything about the Battle of four swords. Would you mind elaborating on what it is please?


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 15 April 2010, 01:35:53
Check the history section (a pair of crossed swords) under the continents heading, click Sarvonia, South and then look for the bit labeled "The Age of Blood". The Third Sarvonian war occured around 300 b.S. so scroll down there, the Battle of Four Swords should be well towards the bottom of the page (I believe it's around 290 b.S.).

Also of help is the "Search" function on the main site. If you look next to the "Santharian Dream" button that takes to back to the main page and just above the "Site Menu" bar there's a little magnifying glass. This is your best friend when developing Miscellaneous entries next to good sense. It's good for most entries, but Miscellaneous work has been known to reference more disparate entries than others.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 15 April 2010, 01:57:46
Addressed all the comments put forward so far. Ready for more now. :grin:


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 15 April 2010, 04:57:24
I'm still a little cautious about those spikes. It seems ideally that you would have a curved face, since the physics would give you the weight of the hammer focused to the apex of the curve rather than distributed across a flat face.

That said, it seems like one of those spiked monstrosities might be a Chyrakisth weapon. They do so like to make things intimidating, and it would be a nice touch to have some mention of Nybelmar.

All that aside, I'm willing to give this a blarrow if Seeker has no problem.



Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Seeker on 15 April 2010, 05:08:01
Quote
I would remove the part about it being best against plate armour.  One, it doesn't really have anything to do with the rest of the sentence. and two, it is not really accurate.  the hammer is best against bare skin, then maybe clothed skin, then maybe chain mail, leather armour etc working ones way up to plate armour.


I would still like to see that little part at the beginning removed or at least explained.  I normally wouldn't want to rush the entry to blarrow, but in reality this entry already got a good amount of attention a few years ago, so once that one piece is fixed/explained I am good with it.

Regarding the spikes-  A spiked warhammer is bordering on being called a mace.  However I am OK with how it is described here.  Certainly someone out there will put a spike on a hammer even if it doesn't fit the original intent of the hammer.



Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 15 April 2010, 05:10:43
I think the intention is that it would have spikes on the face of the hammer, a little like a meat tenderizer.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 15 April 2010, 06:43:48
The spikes - They would probably be about an inch or so long, and there would be a distinct difference between "spiked" and "plain". The former would probably have molded spikes on a flatish face whereas the latter would have, as Valan said, a rounded face.

And the plate armour - I think it is ambiguous. everyone reads it as "The warhammer performs better against plate armour than bare skin", but it could (and probably does) mean something like "The warhammer performs better against plate armour than other weapons as effective against a less heavily defended opponent" or "The effectiveness of the warhammer is not greatly affected by armour as much as that of other weapons, and so is an ideal way to attack an opponent wearing plate armour" - ie, it is relatively very effective against plate.

I think...

Athviaro


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 15 April 2010, 07:24:42
What I meant was that warhammers are one of the most effective weapons against plate armour. Sorry if that confused anyone. Ill write that instead in navy if it helps.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 15 April 2010, 07:27:54
Or should I just remove that part altogether?


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 15 April 2010, 07:38:24
I'm trying to figure it out. Plate armor is a series of interlocking metal "plates" that cover the body. I think there's just too many to break to actually say it's better than say, a well shot arrow (A good shot with a bow could put an arrow through steel plate and into say, your stomach)  or an expertly placed sword.

At least traditionally plate armor would stand up better to battering because it was more rigid than say chain.

So yes, remove the bit about the plate armor altogether. You'll want to rework the rest of the phrase (which isn't the best at the moment) or drop the whole thing entirely.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 15 April 2010, 07:44:33
Quote
A good shot with a bow could put an arrow through steel plate and into say, your stomach
 

Most plate armour was designed well enough to avoid this, by being strong and rounded so the arrow was deflected instead of puncturing.  Not to say it couldn't or didn't happen.  But, the rise of warhammers was in part due to the improvements in plate mail.  Good plate negated the effectiveness of slashing swords.  Hammers took the place.  As far as spikes go, I don't see the need for putting them on the face of the hammer, but think it makes more sense to place it (one thick spike) opposed to the face, so that the weilder simply twisted the face about and was able to punch through helmets, etc.

Edit: In battle, the hammer was used to knock down and stun an opponent, then turned about so the spike could be employed to dispatch the victim.  Also where the dagger was employed by knights.

Edit 2:  Pic of Warhammer (http://therionarms.com/armor/hammer1.jpg) examples


Edit 3:  or are you perhaps confusing the Warhammer with the Great Maul?  Which was more like a sledgehammer.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 15 April 2010, 07:58:30
You seem to have hit the nail on the head. We do seem to have the wrong scale. I think we might have been creating a maul instead. Blame this Aylix character perhaps?

And there was that whole arms race business between arrows and armor. Better arrows and bows, thicker plate.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 15 April 2010, 08:19:05
What are the differences between warhammers and great mauls? I think that mauls were simply big smithy hammers, whereas warhammers were shaped for war with one face bigger than the other and sometimes had spikes attached. If that is the case, we can blarrow this (if no one can see anything else wrong with it) and make a new entry for the Great Maul because is a seperate weapon.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 15 April 2010, 08:40:03
What Altario is saying is that we may have, unintentionally, created a great maul *instead of* a warhammer entry.

A great maul is what it sounds like. A large slab of rock or metal on the end of a handle. You bash faces, rupture internal organs and general cause mayhem with it. And I believe it has a longer handle. Essentially a weaponized sledgehammer, like you mentioned. A warhammer would have been a more precise (in terms of size) weapon. And it has the spike on the rear, like a bigger, fused claw hammer.

And kindly exercise some patience M'ruk. As Seeker mentioned an entry doesn't usually get called for a blarrow all that quickly and for reasons exactly like this. I'm going to go over this again in a bit to make sure nothing else has been missed.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 15 April 2010, 11:46:03
The Warhammer

(Also known as Brainbeater or Deathdealer)  By who?

Overview:

Warhammers are weapons generally used by strong warriors. With devastating power when used correctly, the Warhammer can break bones and cause grievous bodily harm without even breaking the armour. Best against plate armour, when it is studded with spikes the warhammer's damage-dealing potential increases greatly.  As stated, this is a misleading statement.  It is better than other weapons against plate mail, but would be far more effective against an unarmoured opponent.  Perhaps change the sentence so that it compares itself to slashing weapons which are relatively ineffective against plate.


Description:
Warhammers are made up of a heavy block of metal atop a long wooden shaft. The look of the head of the warhammer varies depending on the race it was made by; Human warhammers almost always have a steel or iron block on a thick wooden shaft, while Dwarven warhammers often have the entire warhammer made out of the same metal; usually iron or steel, but some have known to be made of mithril I quote from the metals entry
Quote
Mithril (Silversteel, True Silver)
Extremely rare kind of metal, silver in color, a metal that does not tarnish. Mithril can be beaten and polished without being weakened, and it is both light and hard. It is treasured greatly by the Thergerim as well as the elves and made into powerful armour. Kor Mithrid once was the greatest provider of Mithrid, but nowadays there exists no mithril-vein anymore on the whole world of Caelereth worth mentioning. Mithril items therefore are priceless and very difficult to come by.
  Make sure you stress the rarity of such an item.  and decorated with fine gold runes and patterns! Shafts lengths can range anywhere from 1 Ped to 2 Peds, 2 Fores, and are mostly made of woods. Some of the best woods are Ironwood, cherry, and pine, though most hardwoods are acceptable.  What you have described is a great maul, not a warhammer as such.  See notes at the bottom of entry.

There are also varieties that are used by the larger races such as Trolls and Ogres, as these giants can carry a massive warhammer with one hand. Orcs are also known to use warhammers, especially those that have spikes on one or both ends. Most varieties have a leather thong attached to the end of the shaft to ensure warriors don’t drop their weapon. Orcs in general?  There are many orcs in many places around the disk, and not all are even on the same continent.  Do they all use them, or just certain tribes.  That's like saying Humans use warhammers.  But, the human Ice Tribe don't.


Usage:
Many races use a variation of the warhammer. Humans and dwarves most commonly use them however. Elves rarely use this weapon, as it is too bulky for the nimble fighting style they are used to. As mentioned above Orcs, Trolls and Ogres also use the warhammer, and though they are the weapon of choice for dwarves, the Kurakim are especially proficient with them (as are many Erpheronian warriors who are more thick set than their kinsmen).


Fighting Style:
Warhammers are more cumbersome than most weapons, if not the most, but they can still pack a powerful punch, especially against multiple enemies. When facing more than one foe, the wielder swings the warhammer as hard as they can from side to side, keeping them from getting close enough to attack. The long shaft is what allows this to happen, and so we come to one of the greatest assets of the warhammer; the reach. Sometimes this tactic can be used against a single enemy, but more often the user of the warhammer will lift it to head height and bring it crashing down, before lifting it and quickly repeating the process, until their adversary makes a mistake. They are able to do this for long periods of time- having had to train for long hours in order to be able to access the upper body strength essential to this weapon- but if they start to tire and their foe seems to show no sign of it, they can choose one of two options; continue or throw the warhammer. The first option is the safest but the least likely to gain victory if the enemy is very fit. Besides leaving the wielder of the hammer without their main weapon and therefore more vulnerable if they miss, the second option has another problem. Warhammers are very heavy, so are difficult to throw powerfully and accurately.  Again, Maul, as most warhammers are sleek efficient killing tools.  To be good at any weapon, long hours of training are required.  Perhaps rewriting this paragraph might help.  You appear to have a lot of thoughts that merge and ramble on and leave the reader at a bit of a loss in trying to follow.

Both have problems, which is why warhammers are not the weapon of choice for most warriors. They are too heavy and unwieldy, leaving only those with immense strength able to use them efficiently. Those that can, however, become legends. One such example is Zigilrak the Hammer, a famous and much feared leader of the Nerters of Milkengrad at around 617 b.S., who struck fear into the enemies wielding this formidable weapon. How?  Why?  Tossing out a famous name without a little bit of context does liuttle to expand on the point you are making.


Origin/History:

The true origins of the warhammer are lost in the mists of time, but a human can we nail this down to a tribe?  It is not a Remusian legend.  It would make it sound better to attach it to a particular people.  legend common in the area around Voldar tells of a time, during the Battle of Four Swords, when a farm blacksmith, by the name of Sydus Goth, roused to the defense of his farmstead, led the counter-attack against the orcs wielding his smithy hammer. His awesome muscles and familiarity with the balance and use of the tool allowed him to use it to devastating effect and the orcs were routed. After the battle, Sydus realised just how formidable a weapon he carried and set about enlarging the head and studding it with nails in case of another orc attack. The legend goes that a mere three hours after the completion of the transformation of the hammer from tool to weapon a larger orc force attacked the farmstead, but were once again defeated by the simple peasant folk, emboldened by the sight of Sydus' devastating hammer. Similar legends exist across the length and breadth of Santharia, if not Sarvonia or even the entire disc of Caelereth.

Another example is from Northern Sarvonia, where a Kurakim called Mithten Kemruhnt had a similar revelation while defending a forge in a settlement outside the mountains at around 700 b.S., also from orc raiders. He picked up his hammer and saved his smithy from getting even a scratch. People were inspired by his use of the hammer, and he became very successful selling refined versions of the smith's tool. To this day, the Dwarven word for 'warhammer' is 'khemrhunt'.  Might want to check with Bard Judith on the plausability of the name origin.

How the use of the warhammer spread is unknown, and there may have been many factors, but some things are for sure: this weapon, while primitive, can be devastating in battle and its use is still widespread.


All the way through this entry, you describe this weapon as a maul while caling it a warhammer.  Not just the physical description, but in the fighting style as well.  Now, not to get stuck on semantics, maybe just explain that a maul is a subset of hammer, a two handed version, then you can keep the warhammer name, if it means that much to you.   But warhammers, true warhammers, are smaller, more handler friendly, weapons.

As far as spikes go, I'm not sure this makes a lot of sense.  Clubs are done like this, but clubs are primitive weapons suited for attacking victims who are unarmoured.  If only a few spikes are on the end of the maul, then they would be broken/bent by plate mail, which you have asserted as the primary target, and if you put too many spikes, well... have you ever been hit with a brush, or seen those Hindu magicians laying on a bed of nails?  They impact gets dispersed too much to make it effective.  You would be better off then to use a plain hammerhead with a convex surface.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 15 April 2010, 12:14:27
The Loch-Oc are the only tribe who uses the warhammer as listed in their entry. Most other orc tribes prefer blades or lighter fighting styles. Generally, Sarvonian orcs are not heavy weapons fighters, neither are Nybelmar orcs.

I'd say the warhammer is typically used in various forms among the trolls, ogres, giants and gorba races who are large and powerful. Among humans, I'd say Kuglimz and Ash'mari for sure. Elves a definite no.

Also among some dwarven clans the warhammer is most prevalent given that it is also Urtengor's chosen weapon.


Title: Re: The Warhammer
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 15 April 2010, 17:29:59
Maybe I should change all mentions of warhammers to great mauls, then correct any mistakes/ incorporate edits.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 15 April 2010, 21:18:15
Ok, how does it look now?


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 19 April 2010, 20:24:45
*bump*


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 19 April 2010, 20:58:33
Your usage section generalizes the races that use the maul. You mention humans, dwarves and orcs without being very specific. You mention the Losh-Oc or Erpheronians in other sections though. Also, you may with to provide some evidence that trolls and ogres use mauls. Did you gather eyewitness accounts or stories from certain tribes who provided details?


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 01:12:47
Ok, changes made in brown


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 20 April 2010, 05:24:05
The Great Maul


Overview:

Great Mauls are weapons generally used by strong warriors. With devastating power when used correctly, the Maul can break bones and cause grievous bodily harm without even breaking the armour. One of the most effective weapons against plate armour, the Maul can be considered as a sort of militarised sledgehammer.
I believe this was discussed. At length even. A great big hammer wouldn't be much good against plate armor.

Description:
Great Mauls are made up of a heavy block of metal atop a long wooden shaft. The look of the head of the maul varies depending on the race it was made by; Human mauls almost always have a steel or iron block on a thick wooden shaft, while Dwarven ones often have the entire maul made out of the same metal; usually iron or steel, but some have even been known to be made of the rare mithril and decorated with fine gold runes and patterns! Somerandom space?  have one or more spikes Why go to the trouble? If it's a militarised sledgehammer people are likely to keep it that way. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see this doing double duty in an erpheronian camp being used to hammer in tent spikes or building fortifications. This business with the spikes is getting a little tired.on the back. Shafts lengths can range anywhere from a ped to two peds two fores, and are mostly made of woods. Some of the best woods are Ironwood, cherry, and pine, though most hardwoods are acceptable.a note on why there are red letters in there. It's a fairly common convention that you don't mix numerals in writing. Two, not 2 and all that. I've gotten told this one often enough though. It just doesn't look right. Also, you wouldn't say Two Meters, you'd write it Two meters. Peds and fores are measurements just like meters and feet.

According to the few people to have seen them and lived to tell the tale, there are also varieties that are used by the larger races such as Trolls and Ogres, as these giants can carry a massive maul with one hand. Loch-Oc Orcs are also known to use Mauls, especially those that have spikes on them. Most varieties have a leather thong attached to the end of the shaft to ensure warriors don’t drop their weapon.


Usage:
Many races use a variation of the Great Maul. Humans and dwarves most commonly use them however. Elves rarely use this weapon, as it is too bulky for the nimble fighting style they are used to. Avvenorians and Shendar are rarely seen using the Maul. As mentioned above Orcs (especially Losh-Oc), Trolls and Ogres also use the Great Maul, and though they are the weapon of choice for dwarves- being Urtengor's own favoured weapon-, the Kurakim are especially proficient with them (as are many Erpheronian warriors who are more thick set than their kinsmen).
Why so bracketed? you could easily work these in with a simple comma or semi-colon I think.


Fighting Style:
Great Mauls are more cumbersome than most weapons, if not the most, but they can still pack a powerful punch, especially against multiple enemies. When facing more than one foe, the wielder swings the maul as hard as they can from side to side, keeping them from getting close enough to attack. The long shaft is what allows this to happen, and so we come to one of the greatest assets of the Maul; the reach. Sometimes this tactic can be used against a single enemy, but more often the user of the maul will lift it to head height and bring it crashing down, before lifting it and quickly repeating the process, until their adversary makes a mistake. They are able to do this for long periods of time having had to train for long hours in order to be able to access the upper body strength essential to use this weapon.
Great Mauls are not the weapon of choice for most warriors. They are too heavy and unwieldy, leaving only those with immense strength able to use them efficiently. Those that can, however, become legends.


Origin/History:
The true origins of the Great Maul are lost in the mists of time, but a humanwe've got all sorts of tribes. It wouldn't kill you to name one. legend common in the area around Voldar tells of a time, during the Battle of Four Swords, when a farm blacksmith, by the name of Sydus Goth, roused to the defense of his farmstead, led the counter-attack against the orcs wielding his smithy hammer.A smithy hammer is not a particularly large or heavy hammer to begin with. It doesn't have a long handle either. And I don't think there's any one hammer either for some reason. I've no doubt a smithy would have a sledgehammer though. His awesome muscles and familiarity with the balance and use of the tool allowed him to use it to devastating effect and the orcs were routed. After the battle, Sydus realised just how formidable a weapon he carried and set about enlarging the head and studding it with nails in case of another orc attack. The legend goes that a mere three hours after the completion of the transformation of the hammer from tool to weapon a larger orc force attacked the farmstead, but were once again defeated by the simple peasant folk, emboldened by the sight of Sydus' devastating hammer. Similar legends exist across the length and breadth of Santharia. if not Sarvonia or even the entire disc of Caelereth.
That's taking a it a little far. My suggestion is to crop the end off, or rework the phrase. It sounds... silly. I can picture some evil mastermind saying it quite easily. Sarvonia, or Caelereth. Not both please.

Another example is from Northern Sarvonia, where a Kurakim called Mithten Kemruhnt had a similar revelation while defending a forge in a settlement outside the mountains at around 700 b.S., also from orc raiders. He picked up his hammer and saved his smithy from getting even a scratch. People were inspired by his use of the hammer, and he became very successful selling refined versions of the smith's tool. To this day, the Dwarven word for 'hammer' is 'khemrhunt'.I think you were asked to ask the Bard about this one. Have you?

How the use of the Great maul spread is unknown, and there may have been many factors, but some things are for sure: this weapon, while primitive, can be devastating in battle and its use is still widespread.
A quick rule for you. Wherever you have the complete name of something (which might only be one word) It's capitalized. Great Maul, should be written with both the G and M capitalized. Conversely, Maul does not need to be capitalized and breaks the flow of the sentence.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 05:42:47
Done. And I don't really see why I need to consult Bard Judith, helpful and knowledgeable though she is, about this word, Kemruhnt. It does say that it means warhammer in the dictionary.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 20 April 2010, 06:03:34
Because Judith is the Mistress of Dwarvenlore and it is not the word, so much as the use of it as a name, as I recall.
Another example is from Northern Sarvonia, where a Kurakim called Mithten Kemruhnt had a similar revelation while defending a forge in a settlement outside the mountains at around 700 b.S., also from orc raiders. He picked up his hammer and saved his smithy from getting even a scratch. People were inspired by his use of the hammer, and he became very successful selling refined versions of the smith's tool. To this day, the Dwarven word for 'warhammer' is 'khemrhunt'.  Might want to check with Bard Judith on the plausability of the name origin.
Why yes it was!


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 06:12:13
Valan, if we can make up our own names, we can use warhammer as a name.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 20 April 2010, 06:23:25
I think you might be underestimating the amount of work that Bard Judith has put in to this race over the years.  You are not simply creating something insignifigant and naming it, but you are potentialy changing something fundamental.  She should be given the respect she deserves by allowing her to give a nay or a yay on this.  I hope that Bard Judith deserves this little measure of respect.  She may have no problem with this at all.  May give you Kudos for your inventiveness.  I don't know.  I'm not a dwarf expert.

I know I would do so if I were creating a dwarven entry, or from Talia in a Shendar entry, or Azhira in a Mists entry or any number of developers in their staked out areas where they have spent countless hours working on something.  I think Judith and her 6800 + posts here deserves that much from you.  No?  Or am I wrong?  Is that too much?


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Bard Judith on 20 April 2010, 09:26:05
I apologize for taking so long to weigh in on the subject at hand.  I've been recovering from Influenza B and dealing with my students' midterms.

As to to question of name origin:

Another example is from Northern Sarvonia, where a Kurakim called Mithten Kemruhnt had a similar revelation while defending a forge in a settlement outside the mountains at around 700 b.S., also from orc raiders. He picked up his hammer and saved his smithy from getting even a scratch. People were inspired by his use of the hammer, and he became very successful selling refined versions of the smith's tool. To this day, the Dwarven word for 'warhammer' is 'khemrhunt'.

This is historically implausible for a number of reasons - first, the association of dwarves and hammers goes back far longer than 700 b.S.!     Yet a story so detailed, including the Thergerim hero's name, would not have come down over thousands of years despite the way in which the dwarves literally carve their histories in stone.    And finally, dwarves are named (their 'last', 'family', or 'cavern' names) after existing Thergerimtaal words, not viceversa.  (In other words, all dwarven names fit into a pattern of a unique first name which may be one, two, or three syllables, plus an 'epithet' which can be translated into Tharian:   'Krennik Forgehammer', 'Hren Weavewender', 'Boldt Spiltwater', and so on...)

  A more general and plausible way to write about the long association of dwarves and warhammers  might be as follows:


The dwarves of Northern Sarvonia, who have been using hammers as their warweapons for literally thousands of years, claim that the Great Maul originated with their tribe back in the dawn of their history.  In the colder wastes of the North where forge hammers and sledge hammers rang day and night under the icy rocks to carve out their living caverns, and where axes were rarely used due to the dearth of large trees, slowly the hammer became their symbol.  The tool of choice, it would have come readily to hand if icewolves attacked or a wandering band of orcs encountered a work party of dwarves... and so, simply and easily, the dwarven hammer took on its fighting connotations.   The handle was lengthened, the striking face made more convex, and the shaft given inset rings so that the weapon could be slung on a strap across the back.    By the time humans encountered the northern Thergerim, the hammer was already an omnipresent part of their aboveground attire, as unremarkable as the eating knife or nailstudded rock boots... but a novelty to the human tribes, who seized on this simple but practical tool and adapted it for their own physique and fighting style.


Just a suggestion - I'm glad to see someone taking on the entry for the warhammer and attempting to incorporate the existing concepts and details that we have available.   I trust this additional information will be useful!

Regards from the Bard,
Judith




Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Seeker on 20 April 2010, 09:45:04
Ahhh, thank you Bard. 

M'ruk, I sense you want to get this one done.  Well this entry started off trying to be a simple entry about a warhammer.  You have turned it into a much more rich and complete entry of the Great Maul.  So feel good about that and lets get this one down the final stretch.   :thumbup:


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 20 April 2010, 10:09:30
Waaait...

So Northern humans learned of the war hammer from the dwarves? That really must go back far in history. Perhaps the dwarves took the war hammer to greater significance, such as a religious or cultural symbol as well as a weapon. The humans, who probably had similar hammer type weapons (it's such a simple tool after all) adopted the dwarven fighting technique with it. To me, that seems plausible.

I wish Alysse were here to give some insight. Human tribes are not my forte... :undecided:


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 20 April 2010, 11:00:43
Yes, thank yiou Bard.  Here's an aura for being so detailed and providing an alternative. :)


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 16:10:52
Thankk you so much bard Judith for the detailed explanation and constructiveness of an alternative story. I'll be sure to put that in. I would give you an aura, but I can't yet.

Thanks also to everyone else who helped me, especially those who did uri checks. I hope this will be close to satisfactory once I add in the Bard's story in red.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 17:29:00
Put that in. How does it look now?


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 20 April 2010, 21:53:37
A Uri check is named after a member by the name of Uragel.  Now, admittedly, you and I might be getting off on the wrong foot here, but I think by calling it a urinal check is a bit derogatory and disrespectful.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you did not know that and were trying to be funny, but please try to avoid that in the future. :)


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 22:13:03
OMG i am so sorry I had predictive text on and it put that on I am really sorry :(


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 20 April 2010, 22:15:14
 :D  No problem, just wanted to point that out as most of the newer folks don't always know where some of the terms around here come from.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 22:17:31
Yeah I read about it. Sorry that was an accident.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 20 April 2010, 22:18:54
 :)  If I have time today, I will go over this entry once more.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 20 April 2010, 22:24:49
Thanks. I really appreciate everyone's help.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 20 April 2010, 23:51:11
Having another look at this.

Good to see that you have used Bard Judith's suggested dwarven history for the warhammer.  As you can see, there is much to consider when going back into the mists of time.  My suggestion with this is that, if you are going to use her suggestion in wholesale fashion, maybe a quick note in a researcher section acknowledging the contribution of Bard Judith.  Not mandatory, but I think it might be appropriate, as you took it verbatim.

You state that handles are best used by hardwoods, which is correct.  However, pine is a soft wood, and having worked with pine often, I wouldn't want to entrust my life to a weapon handle made of it.

Quote
Great Mauls are not the weapon of choice for most warriors. They are too heavy and unwieldy, leaving only those with immense strength able to use them efficiently. Those that can, however, become legends.

I would drop the "those that can, however, become legends" sentence.  Stating it thus, you infer that simply knowing how to use a maul will make you a legend.  But, this is not true.  There are some with a maul that would have much in the way of fame for his proficiency with it, but so do all weapons, and then stating that would become superfluous.  The vast majority of people using it will not become masters with it, and can only hope to be proficient at it enough that they don't get killed in battle.  Strength does not equal skill, and being strong enough to use this weapon may not be enough in a battle with someone nimble and highly skilled in something as small as a dagger.

I think everything else looks good. :D


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 21 April 2010, 03:17:24
Done. Ready for comments again. Thanks Alt  :grin:


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 21 April 2010, 03:38:01
A spelling mistake: Avvenorians

As well, it is customary that if people take the time to comment on entries and make suggestions, that if you choose not to take their suggestions or integrate their comments, that you at least explain why not.  I see that you chose not to create a researcher section and mention Bard Judith's help, or take pine out of the preferred handles.  I have not looked at other peoples comments to see if you simply brushed them aside as well.  You don't have to agree, but at least explain why you aren't changing things so we can either understand why or explain why you are wrong, if indeed you are.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 21 April 2010, 03:51:32
I'll second Alt's comment on pine. It's not a hard wood. Better suited to something like arrowshafts than an axehandle or hammer haft.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 21 April 2010, 04:20:26
1) I thought it would be best to perfect the main entry before mentioning help. I'm intrigued, though, at how one would law out a researchers section. I'll look at other entries to find out.

2) I don't see where anyone has mentioned pine before, and though I will change it I would ask you to enlighten me as to where this suggestion is.

3) I'm not aware of selecting any comments without explaining my reasons. Please enlighten of as to when this has occured.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 21 April 2010, 04:35:37
As to your first point?
Good to see that you have used Bard Judith's suggested dwarven history for the warhammer.  As you can see, there is much to consider when going back into the mists of time.  My suggestion with this is that, if you are going to use her suggestion in wholesale fashion, maybe a quick note in a researcher section acknowledging the contribution of Bard Judith.  Not mandatory, but I think it might be appropriate, as you took it verbatim.

You state that handles are best used by hardwoods, which is correct.  However, pine is a soft wood, and having worked with pine often, I wouldn't want to entrust my life to a weapon handle made of it.

QFE.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 21 April 2010, 04:39:27
Ah, ok. Forgot about it  :rolleyes:. That is removed as of... now.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 April 2010, 23:00:08
An aura for you, M'ruk, for being so pleasant to work with.

 It can be very frustrating for a newcomer to have to take all the critique from all the people who know so much more and so much better  ;) and try to incorporate all the extant concepts and precedents while still retaining the originality of his/her initial design....   and as the site gets bigger and older and more and more cross-referenced, it will only get more difficult.   So bravo for keeping your cool and integrating comments in a non-defensive and prompt way.   (thumps him approvingly on his shoulder and proffers him an aura cookie (aka Brownie point.....)   :D


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 22 April 2010, 01:15:55
Thanks for the aura, Judith. It's been a real pleasure working with all of you, and I would definitely give auras to all who posted if I could.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Seeker on 22 April 2010, 07:50:03
Yep for sure there was a lot more back and forth on this one than I would have predicted.  As you get to know everyone things usually get easier.  I am glad for Bard's soothing comments. 

You seem to have responded to the major points and the resulting entry seems to work fine.  I think it would be courtesy to mention Bard Judith somehow as Alt mentions.  Oh and make sure to spell Avennorians correctly.  Once this is handeled I think I will be ready to blarrow this.







Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Seeker on 22 April 2010, 07:59:08
Art-  During this thread we determined this huge hammer should be called the Great Maul versus the smaller knight version which would be called warhammer.  As such can you replace "Warhammer" with "Great Maul" in the following sentence found in the blunt weapons overview?
Quote
A very well known and even more feared hammer is the bulky Warhammer. This is probably the largest variant of a hammer. Either the wielder has to use both hands to deal effective blows, or he has to be an ogre. Well aimed strikes with a warhammer can bash-in the skull of a troll or crush the thorax of a full-grown cartashian bear.

Art- Also I need to do some rework of the Blunt Weapons overview-  For some reason we have two of them where we only have one for the other weapons categories.  

And Finally, Aylix Goth wrote major parts of this entry many years ago.  M'ruk kindly finished what he started.  So it is appropriate we give Aylix credit along with M'ruk.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 23 April 2010, 01:22:35
I've just finished modifying the main entry, so if someone could take a look at that and tell me whether it is fine now, I'll add in a research section.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 23 April 2010, 01:42:53
Doesn't work that way m'afraid. :azn:
The idea is, you integrate all the comments, or provide reasons why you have not.
The researcher section is one of the one that sort of floats around like a satellite in some cases and doesn't require the entry to be changed other than it's addition.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 23 April 2010, 02:41:34
Ok, Blunt Weapons page is already changed... Aylix will be mentioned as well, so I only need to have the final comments handled until the weekend, then it can go up!


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 23 April 2010, 05:26:50
Sorry, I can't seem to find any indication of how I should set out the researchers section. If someone would give me a link to a good example or just explain it, I would be grateful.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 23 April 2010, 12:09:02
It's a plant (http://santharia.com/herbarium/trinity_herb.htm#Researchers) but a researcher section is a researcher section when you get down to writing it.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 23 April 2010, 19:39:09
Not to override Valan...

Researcher sections are not required for weapon entries, unless the Misc mods have a new requirement? Unless the weapon is specific to a tribe and/or unique somehow, I don't see why a great maul would have researchers. In most entries, researcher is just a nice extra bit.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Seeker on 23 April 2010, 22:49:02
Yes I agree, especially since this isn't a unique weapon, like a special one specific to a tribe.  This is a generic entry of a large weapon used by many groups.  So I also think a researcher section is NOT necessary.  Valan is there any specific reason why you would think otherwise?

So don't forget the earlier comment

Quote
I think it would be courtesy to mention Bard Judith somehow as Alt mentions.  Oh and make sure to spell Avennorians correctly.  Once this is handeled I think I will be ready to blarrow this.


Perhaps you can do the following:


One of the compendium experts on dwarves, Bard Judith, provided the following explanation:
" The dwarves of Northern Sarvonia, who have been using hammers as their warweapons for literally thousands of years, claim that the Great Maul originated with their tribe back in the dawn of their history. In the colder wastes of the North where forge hammers and sledge hammers rang day and night under the icy rocks to carve out their living caverns, and where axes were rarely used due to the dearth of large trees, slowly the hammer became their symbol. The tool of choice, it would have come readily to hand if icewolves attacked or a wandering band of orcs encountered a work party of dwarves... and so, simply and easily, the dwarven hammer took on its fighting connotations. The handle was lengthened, the striking face made more convex, and the shaft given inset rings so that the weapon could be slung on a strap across the back. By the time humans encountered the northern Thergerim, the hammer was already an omnipresent part of their aboveground attire, as unremarkable as the eating knife or nailstudded rock boots... but a novelty to the human tribes, who seized on this simple but practical tool and adapted it for their own physique and fighting style."
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Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 23 April 2010, 23:09:04
Seekers's example is enough.  I simply wanted the Bard mentioned as her entire paragragh was used in wholesale fashion; cut and pasted rather than rewritten in M'ruk's own words.  A simple acknowledgement is fine by me.  I have no further comments. :)  So, Valan was just following what I had originally wanted.  A mention of Judith's contribution.


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 24 April 2010, 04:50:49
Ok, no problem. That is done as of now. I would like to thank Athviao, Altario, Seeker, Valan, Bard Judith, Azhira, and Artimdor for their helpful contributions, and look forward to working with them again in the future. I would give you all aura points,  but I can't yet. So have some theoretical ones instead. I have incorporated all the comments. What do you think?


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Seeker on 24 April 2010, 05:26:15
Well I am happy with it.  :D  It is blarrowed.

M'ruk, well done.  Now you can see how complicated some of these entries can get and why we have to work so closely to get them done.  So hopefully you learned a bit about how things work around here and have enjoyed yourself along the way.  Overall I am quite pleased with the tone of your responses throughut the post.  So much of success here in Santharia goes beyond talent in writing (or art) but being able to work and get along with others. 


Title: Re: The Great Maul
Post by: Mīruk Loshashzuck on 04 May 2010, 02:34:44
Auras given to all who contributed. Thanks again!