Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Valan Nonesuch on 28 May 2010, 10:19:15



Title: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 28 May 2010, 10:19:15
The Rev'oq is the traditional weapon of the Kaaer'dar'shin half-orcs of Northern Sarvonia. It is unusual  as the blade of the dagger is made from the bone of the great Tsor-Shotak lizard, while the handle is wrapped in leather made from its skin. The dagger, much like the t'lark that often acompanies it, is a religious talisman of great significance as much as it is a practical tool for a Kaaer hunter; the tribe believes the knowledge required to make such a weapon is passed down from the Beastlord, Durgho, himself.

Description
The Rev'oq is a bone dagger, made from a single piece of tsor-shotak bone, cut and ground into a fine blade. Tsor-shotak bones are incredibly tough, and so the blade is not as weak as one might guess from its material. The blade is made from the shoulder of a tsor-shotak, ground down to a fine edge and point.  Unlike most weapons this dagger begins without an edge, in a sort of extended tang. It curves slightly, before fanning out into a longer, leaf shaped blade. The grip has a slight curve and is usually made out of one of the leg bones of the tsor-shotak, while the pommel may be one of its teeth or claws.


The tsor-shotak is a northern lizard of prodigious size with a toxic bite, hunted by the Kaaer for various properties, least of which is its flexible hide, used in the crafting of tlark bucklers. Its bones are of a remarkable durability, enabling them to be ground and tooled into blades which remain lighter than a stone or metal blade of the same sort.

This Mist Hunters, a subset of the tribe, do not make their weapons out of tsor-shotak bones.The great lizards do not live near their territory, in and around the Mists of Osthemangar, and so they craft their blades out of the teeth and spines of the vile spined wyrms of the Mists. The blades are attached to their handles with the noxious spit of the wyrm, a sticky substance which hardens quite well, and wrapped in whatever available hide can be found. This affects the appearance of the blade. A Mist Hunter Rev'oq seems to be stained yellow with a black handle, a result of the materials used in the construction.

To the Kaaer'dar'shin the Rev'oq may represent a unique form of To'vtar, a sort of religious totem which should be carried in the hunt. The handle of the dagger is usually adorned with some sort of charm. The claw of an uncil cat, the fang of a tsor'shotak, the tailfeather of a toran eagle or the tail of a snow wolf can be found adorning the pommel or the grip of a Kaaer'dar'shin warrior's dagger. In addition, the blades and handles are quite often painted with patterns in red, yellow or blue, broad curves around small dots creating stylized teeth or eyes on the sides of the blade.

Usage
The  clans of the Kaaer'dar'shin half-orcs of Northern Sarvonia are the only ones to use the Rev'oq. Lack of access to Tsor-Shotak bones and the knowledge to make the knife also restricts their usage to these groups. On occasion, another orc might be found with one of these daggers, however they usually break in orcish hands, since they are not accustomed to the relative fragility of the blades.

Fighting Style
The Rev'oq is not a weapon that stands up well to armor or to blocking. It is intended to be used with as little fuss from the party on the receiving end of the blow as possible. The Kaaer are quite adept at stealth, and the curve of the blade, as well as it's leaf shape makes it excellent for slicing throats as much as it is a tool for cutting things.

A harsh stabbing motion can chip or break the blade, so ideally, the motion made with it is a long cut, either with the blade held point down in the hand, or a short cut with the blade held point up. How effective this motion will be is determined by where one strikes the target. Favoured points to aim for are behind the knee, the elbow and underside of the shoulder, the neck and the inside of the thigh.

Additionally the blade can be coated with tsor'shotak saliva to add to the lethality. tsor'shotak saliva is remarkably toxic, and the infection resulting from a wound contaminated with this substance is a painful, slow way to die. Most Mists creatures seem to have abominable constitutions, or are otherwise difficult to kill with such methods, and so the Mist Hunters do not use the saliva.

It would be lax to mention the Rev'oq without mentioning the t'lark which so often accompanies it. The t'lark is a buckler made of the hide of the tsor-shotak lizard. Fighting including the t'lark keeps the buckler close at hand and exclusively uses this to block, to prevent the dagger from being damaged or broken. The t'lark is often used to make an opening by feinting an attack with the buckler, by shoving or even striking an opponent with the shield. The t'lark also serves to keep the dagger hidden from view by the opponent which allows a Kaaer warrior to lash out with the edge of the dagger in a surprise attack.

While the Kaaer try to avoid stabbing attacks with the dagger, if necessary the t'lark may be used to add extra weight to the dagger thrust by placing the hand holding the dagger in front of the buckler before striking.

Origin/History
The origins of the Rev'oq are lost to time. The Kaaer believe the method of creating the knives from the Tsor'Shotak to be a gift from the spirits, a way to bring them closer to Durgho and the Beasts in nature since they have neither claws or fangs.

The Themed'lon, where the Kaaer dwell, contains no ore-bearing rocks, or other particularly durable materials, thus the tsor-shotak's bone is the best substitute, much like the Ashz-oc use the wood of the ironwood tree to make weapons. The dagger can be made from stone, but most Kaaer'dar'shin prefer the weapons be made out of bone.

The first Kaaer'dar'shin warrior, Temuuj Tartaan is said to have been given the design for the Rev'oq by Durgho, the Beastlord. One of the duties of a new warrior is to teach a younger warrior how to craft a dagger from the hide of the tsor-shotak, and it is with this dagger that the tsor-shotak hides for a t'lark must be taken. The Kaaer'dar'shin dagger is central to the hunt, and is sacred. The first adornments to a new dagger are often made with the blood of the first creature that it slays.

One of the ways young children are taught how to hunt is to give them a blunt or broken dagger with nutshells attached on bits of cord on the handle. These jangle together, making noise. The children must then track and "kill" their teacher or another student, who must evade the hunters for as long as they can.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 28 May 2010, 11:34:17
Ohh nice start, Valan! I am happy to see you went ahead with this.  :D

A few notes to consider as you work on this:

- Since a dagger could be considered a type of to'avatar, I'd like to see each dagger as a unique design for each warrior. Feathers, leather strips, designs for the blade and grip, etc...maybe colored blades like red, black or yellow.

- Try to mention the t'lark buckler (http://www.santharia.com/armour/tlark_war_buckler.htm) in their fighting style.

- Perhaps the Kaaer coat the dagger blades with the lizard's own toxic saliva? This would give the wound a nasty infection even if the kill were not immediate. Given the dangers of the Mists, the hunters would need some extra bite in their strikes.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 28 May 2010, 11:39:57
I want it stated right here, that any dagger created for the Icelands actually be a dagger.. and NOT a knife. :buck:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 28 May 2010, 23:59:38
Altario can I assume your definition is the same as mine:

Knife- Only one side of blade is sharp. Designed for cutting and slicing.

Dagger- Both sides of blade are sharp.  Primarily used for stabbing.

Both can be small or large.  However once they get too large they are called swords.  :)

Valan is describing what appears to be a knife.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 29 May 2010, 00:50:35
Part of the reason I'd like a better name for it Seeker.  :buck:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Agran Velion on 29 May 2010, 01:14:42
Well you can always use a title, like, "Silent Death" "Silent Blade" "Swift Strike" etc.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 29 May 2010, 01:45:21
Not if I can help it.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 29 May 2010, 01:56:39
What about Valan Bot's Blunt Kitchen Knife of Stabbing? :D :evil:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 29 May 2010, 04:40:08

Valan is describing what appears to be a knife.

I refuse to revise all my entries to say knife. This is a dagger, I say! I trust Valan Bot to make it a dagger.  :nod:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Agran Velion on 29 May 2010, 04:46:39
IMO

Dagger-Weapon
Knife-Utensil/tool


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 29 May 2010, 04:57:28
Quote
Knife-Utensil/tool


Tell that to Jim Bowie


Quote
I refuse to revise all my entries to say knife. This is a dagger, I say! I trust Valan Bot to make it a dagger.

Don't let little things like facts get in the way.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Agran Velion on 29 May 2010, 04:58:32
Quote
Tell that to Jim Bowie
...good point. I'm with you.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 29 May 2010, 05:00:08
The lady knows what she wants.

Generally a knife is a utensil/tool according to the real world categorizations I have found.  However when you consider a knife is a hunting tool well, the definitions become blurred.  So if you are one who likes to hunt humans the tool all of sudden becomes a weapon.


In the end this weapon being described sounds really cool.  I have been waiting for a weapon made of bone that I could draw.   For some reason I have been wanting to draw bones.  Perhaps i should draw another bone tree.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 29 May 2010, 05:52:17
I play a game in which knife/dagger are used interchangeably in one of 17 weapon types. :D

Scalpels are also in the same weapon type ... the weapon type is called 'Knife' by the way :)


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 29 May 2010, 06:35:00
It matters little to me.  Seekers definition is the accepted one, however.  Knife has one sharpened side, while daggers have two.  Knives are predominately for cutting, while daggers are for stabbing.

But, the site is full of these inconsistencies, so I'm not advocating changing it now.  Just saying that if anyone decides they want to create such a tool or weapon in any lands under my discretion, be prepared to use the correct terminology.  I prefer things to be right, is all. :grin:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 29 May 2010, 06:47:16
Like I said...

Valan will describe this as a dagger with two sharpened sides. That was how I envisioned this.

My people don't go to war armed with glorified steak knives.  :P


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 29 May 2010, 21:19:08
Well Valan you don't look as smart as you appear.  :grin:

Quote
Tsor-Shotak bones are incredibly tough, and so the blade does not look as weak as it appears.


I love that oxymoron.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 06 June 2010, 21:19:47
My people don't go to war armed with glorified steak knives.  :P
These (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kukri) are not steak knives.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 06 June 2010, 23:33:03
But it is a knife.  :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 07 June 2010, 08:17:33
I trust Valan-Bot to develop a suitably cunning and awe-inspiring weapon deadly enough for a Kaaer warrior. Be it "labeled" as a knife or dagger is irrelevant. As long as it fits the tribe is what matters.

There. Diplomatic enough for ya?  :grin:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 07 June 2010, 08:33:54
Nope  :P

Try again please  :grin:

But really ... you are a bunch of half orcs and orcs aren't known for being diplomatic. And I 'holidayed' with Altario up in Remusia recently ... those people can hardly be called 'civilised' either :evil:

So, I suppose that is about as 'diplomatic' as we can expect from our 'dear' friends from the far north.

In spite of that, I do love you guys :heart: :pet: :grin:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 07 June 2010, 09:15:24
Civilized is soooo over-rated. :buck:

Holidayed?  Guess that explains why you didn't work for your keep. :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 14 June 2010, 02:41:29
I think I've finally sorted this out :D


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 14 June 2010, 08:18:54
I'll uri this more thoroughly later, but for now a few comments.

- An entry on the dagger fighting style without mentioning the t'lark misses much of the Kaaer style. I thnk when researching the t'lark buckler I found several examples of how a smaller shield can be used with short blades effectively. The Kaaer are stealthy, quick fighters both on horse back and on foot.

- I would mention in the overview the t'lark and also the relationship to Durgho. The dagger is important to the tribe and can be considered a religious to'avatar. It is something sacred to the hunt.

- The origins can be defined as the tribe is not as old as some other Caelereth tribes. Likely, an old myth can go that the first Kaaer had to make weapons without the use of steel. So bone was the likely alternative, and fortunately, the Tsor-Shotak lizard was the best candidate.

- The Tsor-Shotak has dense bones that are heavier than similar sized creatures. If I need to revise the lizard entry to reflect that, I can. So a bone dagger of a Kaaer warrior is durable and tough and lighter than steel. But not as strong as bone can still break easier than steel.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 14 June 2010, 08:54:30
All solved


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 20 June 2010, 12:03:07
I have an idea to give the Kaaer additional close quarters weapons such as punch daggers and claw bracers. The concept originates from the Kaaer's reverence of Durgho, the beast spirit, and the attempt to imitate the attacks of certain beasts. A claw bracer, for example, would function like the claw of the uncil cat. I am not sure how feasible that would be given the bone blades.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 20 June 2010, 16:07:35
A claw bracer, for example, would function like the claw of the uncil cat. I am not sure how feasible that would be given the bone blades.

Nothing to do with me, of course...but why not use an actual claw? Kind of like how people dressed up in leopard pelts to gain the reactions and strength of a leopard etc.?

Anyway, just an idea.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 21 June 2010, 10:01:47
Length of the claws, difficulty mounting the claws, procuring the claws. An uncil, is I believe a snow leopard. General appearance and judging by the fact that Rayne is the author and the latin name for the Snow Leopard is uncia uncia, I would say this a fair assumption.

I would not want to try to get those claws. Better to try to reproduce a similar mechanism for yourself.

@Azhira Punch daggers I could see working however. Perhaps doubling as an awl? They would be more easily made, close to the traditional bone knife, mounted into a piece of wood. Give me a second I might have a few ideas for you.

What other resources do the Kaaer have access to? And also, can we get a better name for this poor dagger?




Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 21 June 2010, 12:32:23
Resources? The Kaaer have access to wood and bone, surely. I would assume they have access to metal and steel but they don't do their own mining. The Osther-Oc mine from the Caaehl and can produce metal weapons so the Kaaer could trade for those. However, the clan most in contact with the Osther would be the Mist Hunters. Of any clan, the Mist Hunters would the most technologically advanced in weapons given their occupation to the dangers of the Mists.

As for a name...I am horrible with names so don't hold your breath... :P I don't even have a basic Kaaer vocabulary. The names I do have in my entries are from the talents of Alysse and Bard. One of these days I'll actually have some semblance of language for my tribe... :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 23 June 2010, 08:08:43
The Kaaer'dar'shin dagger is the traditional weapon of the Kaaer half-orcs of Northern Sarvonia. It is an unusual weapon. The blade of the dagger is made of the bone of the great Tsor-Shotak lizard, while the handle is wrapped in leather made from its skin. The dagger is almost always acompanied by a t'lark (a buckler made of t'sor-shotak hide) and is a religious talisman for the member of the Kaaer.

First, we need a formal name here. Did you like the one I proposed in the vocab thread? What makes this dagger unusual? Unless no other tribe creates weapons from bone, then I'd say that unusual is the case. Maybe word the t'lark bit to say that traditional Kaaer warriors use the dagger and t'lark war buckler together and have developed a swift, deadly fighting style. Instead of religious talisman, I would say that the dagger is considered central to the Kaaer belief of the hunt and is revered as a symbol of their faith.

Description
The Kaaer'dar'shin dagger is a bone knife, made from a single piece of Tsor-Shotak bone, cut and ground into a fine blade. Tsor-Shotak bones are incredibly tough, and so the blade is not as weak as one might guess from it's substance. The blade is made from the shoulder of a Tsor-Shotak, ground down to a fine edge and point.  Unlike most weapons the Kaaer'dar'shin dagger begins without an edge, in a sort of extended blunt tang. This tang curves slightly, before fanning out into a longer, leaf shaped blade.. The handle has a slight curve and is usually made out of one of the leg bones of the Tsor-Shotak, while the pommel may be one of its teeth or claws.

To the Kaaer'dar'shin and Mist Hunters, the dagger may represent a unique sort of To'vtar, which should be carried in battle. The handle of the dagger is usually adorned with some sort of charm. The claw of an uncil cat, the fang of a Tsor'Shotak, the tailfeather of an eagle or the tail of a wolf can be found adorning the pommel or the grip of a Kaaer'dar'shin warrior's dagger. In addition, the blades and handles are quite often painted with patterns in red, yellow or blue, broad curves around small dots creating stylized teeth or eyes on the sides of the blade.

A few things need explained to a first time reader:

1. The Tsor-Shotak needs to be explained as being a large lizard that the tribe hunts as a source of food, armor, weapons and even poisons. Maybe mention the lizard's territory too. I think a reader needs some background on the animal as it is important to the tribe and the construction of the dagger.

2. What is a tang?

3. Mention in a sentence or two what a to'avatar is. It is a physical representation of a spirit. In the dagger's case, it represents Durgho, the primal and chief nature spirit.

4. Specifically, the eagle is a Toran eagle. Wolves native to the area would be the snow wolf or the Ash wolf (moreso the snow wolf).

Usage
The Kaaer'dar'shin half-orcs of Northern Sarvonia and the Mist Hunters by association with that tribe, are the only ones to use the Kaaer dagger. Lack of access to Tsor-Shotak bones and the knowledge to make the knife also restricts their usage to these groups. On occasion an orc might be found with one of these daggers, however they usually break in orcish hands, since they are not accustomed to the relative fragility of the blades.

The Kaaer and Mist Hunters are the same tribe. The Mist Hunters are now denoted as a clan within the tribe. I would mention that he dagger is used by all three clans in fighting and hunting. The Mist Hunters specifically employ the daggers but likely it would not be made of Tsor-Shotak bone as the lizard is not found that far north near the Mists. In fact, I would think that the Mist Hunter dagger is made of bone from a different creature such as the oogorim or spine wyrm.

Fighting Style
The Kaaer'dar'shin dagger is not a weapon that stands up well to armor or to blocking. It is intended to be used with as little fuss from the party on the receiving end of the blow as possible. The Kaaer are quite adept at stealth, and the curve of the blade, as well as it's leaf shape makes it excellent for slicing throats as much as it is a tool for cutting things.

A harsh stabbing motion can chip or break the blade, so ideally, the motion made with it is a long cut, either with the blade held point down in the hand, or a short cut with the blade held point up. How effective this motion will be is determined by where one strikes the target. Favoured points to aim for are behind the knee, the elbow and underside of the shoulder, the neck and the inside of the thigh.

Additionally the blade can be coated with Tsor'shotak saliva to add to the lethality. Tsor'shotak saliva is incredibly toxic, and the infection resulting from a wound contaminated with this substance is a painful, slow way to die.

I would assume that Kaaer warriors desire a swift kill so they aim for the weakest points of an opponent. A throat slice is enough to kill so what use is the slow toxic saliva? I think the saliva would have better use on arrows, maybe?

It would be lax to mention the Kaaer'dar'shin dagger without mentioning the t'lark which so often accompanies it. The t'lark is a buckler made of the hide of the tsor-shotak lizard. Fighting including the t'lark keeps the buckler close at hand and exclusively uses this to block, to prevent the dagger from being damaged or broken. The t'lark is often used to make an opening by feinting an attack with the buckler, by shoving or even striking an opponent with the shield. The t'lark also serves to keep the dagger hidden from view by the opponent which allows a Kaaer warrior to lash out with the edge of the dagger in a surprise attack.

While the Kaaer try to avoid stabbing attacks with the dagger, if necessary the t'lark may be used to add extra weight to the dagger thrush by placing the hand holding the dagger in front of the buckler before striking.

Origin/History
The origins of the Kaaer'dar'shin dagger are lost to time. The Kaaer believe the method of creating the knives from the Tsor'Shotak to be a gift from the spirits, a way to bring them closer to Durgho and the Beasts in nature since they have neither claws or fangs.

I think a mention of why the Kaaer crafted daggers from bone in the first place is important. Since the Themed'lon region has no ready source of ore to mine for steel, bone crafting was developed early on as a substitute. I think a mention that the daggers can also be made of stone is important too but primarily bone is the material of choice.

The first Kaaer'dar'shin warrior is said to have been given the design for this weapon by Durgho, the Beastlord. One of the duties of a new warrior is to teach a younger warrior how to craft a dagger from the hide of the tsor-shotak, and it is with this dagger that the tsor-shotak hides for a t'lark must be taken. The Kaaer'dar'shin dagger is central to the hunt, and is sacred. The first adornments to a new dagger are often made with the blood of the first creature that it slays.

This is good. Temuuj Tartaan was the first Kaaer to introduce steathy tactics and fighting when he led the tribe to independence from the orcs. I think it would be fitting to mention him as the legendary figure who was given the dagger's design from Durgho. He is mentioned in the Kaaer entry (though I have since changed his name).

One of the ways young children are taught how to hunt is to give them a blunt or broken dagger with nutshells attached on bits of cord on the handle. These jangle together, making noise. The children must then track and "kill" their teacher or another student, who must evade the hunters for as long as they can.

Overall, this is great! The tribe is undergoing a revision at the moment, so likely some of this may change. But it is good to see this important weapon being entried!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 26 June 2010, 02:16:47
Final edits, Valan?


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 02 July 2010, 05:34:16
I'm unsure if I covered Azhira's work there Art, and I've got a bone or two to pick with her, so I'll get back to this when that is done. It should be just about ready to go though.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 02 July 2010, 10:19:06
...I've got a bone or two to pick with her...

Pun intended, right? :lol:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 03 July 2010, 08:14:54
Nope, but we'll assume I'm lying :D

Would you mind giving me a hint or two at the direction the Kaaer are going in? I would really rather not have to exhume an entry once it's dead and blarrowed. It's not quite neat and tidy. Otherwise I'll put this to bed until that rolls around.

I'm still a little off on the name. Visually it looks a little silly and it sounds off in the way you'd pronounce it. Do the Kaaer even have larger blades that they need the distinction of y' (which also means weak which is bugging me a little). Any chance we could get something mono-sylabic? The Kaaer have Kuglimz background, so to borrow the kuglimz word for Animal (Ho) and sword (Reve) we've got two more sounds to use. Rev'oq (Reh-vuh-ock) has a similar sound to t'lark with the harder ending sound.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 03 July 2010, 11:45:34
There are a few threads floating around that hint at where the Kaaer are going. The tribes' development is constant and likely I will be changing stuff all the time. I have to revise all of my Kaaer related entries now due to the large history development I am doing with Alt. Eph'denn and the Themed'lon especially. And, once I make up my mind about the religion, I'll be revising all over again... :)

In other words...don't ever expect to keep a Kaaer related entry dead and blarrowed!  ;)

Given the Kaaer's unfamiliarity with steel production, they will not have large blades. Bows/arrows, daggers, spears and axes likely remain their chief weapons. The "y" in the name meant small, not weak. I suppose Rev'oq is sufficient given the Kuglimz background.

That is...until I change my mind about the Kuglimz involvement at some point!  :grin:

Don't let that blarrow get too dusty, ok?  :cool:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 03 July 2010, 12:53:44
Quote
I have to revise all of my Kaaer related entries now due to the large history development I am doing with Alt. Eph'denn and the Themed'lon especially.
  :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 07 July 2010, 08:02:48
In all seriousness, you won't be changing this anytime soon, Valan. I will keep faithful what is here and work with it in my revisions. I really do appreciate and thank you for writing this for my tribe!  :D


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 08 July 2010, 05:15:20
A little bogged down with getting money from folks for college, so I'll attend to this when I get the chance Azhira. Don't think I've forgotten it :p


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 10 July 2010, 03:52:45
Valan, I am going to assume you'll use the name for the dagger. I am going to use some of your entry in the weapons section in the tribe revision. But I can wait for that until you polish this up.  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 24 July 2010, 03:18:15
 
Quote
Unlike most weapons this dagger begins without an edge, in a sort of extended tang. It curves slightly, before fanning out into a longer, leaf shaped blade.

A dagger without an edge?  :shocked: When you say "begins" I am assuming you are talking about the bottom of the blade that touches the handle?  The tip (pointy end) of the blade would have to have an edge correct?

I am just trying to envision what this looks like.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 25 July 2010, 12:27:59
The weapon is honestly shaped a bit like a boomerang. The actual blade only makes up a little more than half the length of the weapon. Of the remaining space, part of this is blunt and serves as an extension to the handle, to give it a bit of extra reach. This is not wrapped in leather, and the blade extends from this at a 120-125 degree angle (just as an approximation) downwards from the rest. The remaining space, enough to have one hand wrapped around it and not expose too much of the wrapping, is the grip. It's all wrapped up in leather and is where you actually hold the blade.

If I can get my scanner to work I can try to show you what it looks like in my head.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 26 July 2010, 01:08:41
yeah if you get your scanner to work a pic may help. 


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 03 August 2010, 04:27:10
Hmmm... This one still in the works as update time is nearing? Valan seems away for a while, though he has edited the entry on July 9th... Don't know if this version is meant to be final...


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 03 August 2010, 04:36:21
I have the impression there are still things he intends to change. 


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 03 August 2010, 08:12:06
I have the impression there are still things he intends to change. 

And it hasn't met with my approval yet.  :cool:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 08 August 2010, 00:00:22
See if I can't kick this one out of my list and into the upload queue. Edits in gold, though I'm still trying to work in the tsor-shotak explanation. I have left out the explanation of tang at the moment, for the same reasons (because it would be flow breaking).

And for Seeker

(http://a.imageshack.us/img33/8766/kaaerdagger.png)

It's not very good, but it looks like how I think of it.

The patterns I'm thinking of on the blade (for the record) are a little inspired by Haida artwork. I'll see if I can't find some.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 08 August 2010, 08:06:09
This is looking great, Valan! I have some more comments to add:

The Rev'oq is the traditional weapon of the Kaaer half-orcs of Northern Sarvonia. It is an unusual weapon. The blade of the dagger is made of the bone of the great Tsor-Shotak lizard, while the handle is wrapped in leather made from its skin. The dagger is almost always acompanied by a t'lark (a buckler made of t'sor-shotak hide) and is a religious talisman for the clans of the Kaaer.

If I may tweak the Overview...I'd like to suggest some alternate wording:

"The weapon known as the "rev'oq" (Kaaer lit. "swift blade") is a short bladed weapon that carries much religious and practical significance for the Kaaer'dar'shin half-orcs of Northern Sarvonia. The blade is unusual in that it is carved from the bone of the deadly tsor-shotak lizard. This creature is considered sacred to the half-orcs and is hunted for not only its bone, but also its hide and meat. The entire dagger is carved from bone with the handle often wrapped in strips of the lizard's hide. The weapon is used along with the traditional Kaaer shield, or "t'lark". In the hands of an experienced Kaaer warrior, the dagger and shield combination provides quick and deadly strikes while the shield protects the warrior's forearm."

Description
The Rev'oq is a bone dagger, made from a single piece of tsor-shotak bone, cut and ground into a fine blade. Tsor-shotak bones are incredibly tough, and so the blade is not as weak as one might guess from its material. The blade is made from the shoulder of a tsor-shotak, ground down to a fine edge and point.  Unlike most weapons this dagger begins without an edge, in a sort of extended tang. It curves slightly, before fanning out into a longer, leaf shaped blade. The grip has a slight curve and is usually made out of one of the leg bones of the tsor-shotak, while the pommel may be one of its teeth or claws.

To the Kaaer'dar'shin and Mist Hunters, (no need to mention the Mist Hunters since the dagger carries significant importance to the entire tribe in different ways) the Rev'oq may represent a unique form of religious totem called a "To'vtar", which should be carried in battle. The handle of the dagger is usually adorned with some sort of charm such as the claw of an uncil cat, the fang of a tsor'shotak lizard, the tailfeather of a toran eagle or the tail of a snow wolf. The charm can be found adorning the pommel or the grip of the rev'oq. In addition, the blades and handles are quite often painted with patterns in red, yellow or blue, broad curves around small dots creating stylized teeth or eyes on the sides of the blade. Good!

Usage
The Kaaer'dar'shin half-orcs of Northern Sarvonia and the Mist Hunters by association with that tribe, are the only ones known to use the Rev'oq. Lack of access to Tsor-Shotak bones and the knowledge to make the knife also restricts their usage to the Kaaer these groups. On occasion an orc might be found with one of these daggers, however they usually break in orcish hands, since they are not accustomed to the relative fragility of the blades.

Fighting Style
The Rev'oq is not a weapon that stands up well to armor or to blocking. It is intended to be used with as little fuss from the party on the receiving end of the blow as possible. The Kaaer are quite adept at stealth, and the curve of the blade, as well as it's leaf shape makes it excellent for slicing flesh throats as much as it is a tool for cutting things.

A harsh stabbing motion can chip or break the blade, so ideally, the motion made with it is a long cut, either with the blade held point down in the hand, or a short cut with the blade held point up. How effective this motion will be is determined by where one strikes the target. Favoured points to aim for are behind the knee, the elbow and underside of the shoulder, the neck and the inside of the thigh.

Additionally the blade can be coated with Tsor'shotak saliva to add to the lethality. Tsor'shotak saliva is remarkably toxic, and the infection resulting from a wound contaminated with this substance is a painful, slow way to die.

It would be lax to mention the Rev'oq without mentioning the t'lark which so often accompanies it. The t'lark is a buckler made of the hide of the tsor-shotak lizard. Fighting including the t'lark keeps the buckler close at hand and exclusively uses this to block, to prevent the dagger from being damaged or broken. The t'lark is often used to make an opening by feinting an attack with the buckler, by shoving or even striking an opponent with the shield. The t'lark also serves to keep the dagger hidden from view by the opponent which allows a Kaaer warrior to lash out with the edge of the dagger in a surprise attack.

While the Kaaer try to avoid stabbing attacks with the dagger, if necessary the t'lark may be used to add extra weight to the dagger thrust by placing the hand holding the dagger in front of the buckler before striking.

An excellent section! Good stuff.

Origin/History
The origins of the Rev'oq are lost to time. The Kaaer believe the method of creating the knives from the Tsor'Shotak to be a gift from the spirits, a way to bring them closer to Durgho and the Beasts in nature since they have neither claws or fangs.

I think this first paragraph will need tweaked, but I am not sure how...I would like some kind of myth/lore with the origins of the dagger given how important it is to the tribe. Let me think on some ideas...

The Themed'lon, where the Kaaer dwell, contains no ore-bearing rocks, or other particularly durable materials, thus the tsor-shotak's bone was found to be the best substitute, much like the Ashz-oc use the wood of the ironwood tree to make weapons. The dagger can be made from stone, but most Kaaer'dar'shin prefer the weapons be made out of bone. (Another reason because the bone is lighter than stone?)

The first Kaaer'dar'shin warrior, Temuuj Tartaan is said to have been given the design for the Rev'oq by Durgho, the Beastlord. One of the duties of a new warrior is to teach a younger warrior how to craft a dagger from the hide of the tsor-shotak, and it is with this dagger that the tsor-shotak hides for a t'lark must be taken. The Kaaer'dar'shin dagger is central to the hunt, and is sacred. The first adornments to a new dagger are often made with the blood of the first creature that it slays.

One of the ways young children are taught how to hunt is to give them a blunt or broken dagger with nutshells attached on bits of cord on the handle. These jangle together, making noise. The children must then track and "kill" their teacher or another student, who must evade the hunters for as long as they can.

Yes, we need some origin and history, especially if this weapon is so important. I would like a myth origin fir sure perhaps involving Temuuj Tartaan. We'll also need some bits on how the three clans each use the dagger. I apologize...my tribe is undergoing some revision and both entries need to be somewhat consistent. Give me a few days with some ideas.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 08 August 2010, 10:56:56
Thanks for the pic Valan.  A budding artist I see.  Well that shape would indeed be difficult to describe so I think you did the best possible job there.  I'll just let Azhira make the rest of the comments.  I will be watching from afar.   :). 


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 08 August 2010, 11:07:07
Funny story, I had some browser issues while working on this and the edits got lost. Quite a few of your comments would have been addressed too :buck:

@Seeker: I'll make no lies about this, I do not draw. Photomanipulation on the other hand, and a little bit of working with scanned line art, I do when the fancy strikes me.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 16 August 2010, 09:01:12
I mised mentioning this. I think most of Azhira's comments have been integrated now in this colour but I can't be sure.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 19 August 2010, 02:35:03
Valan, Azhira mentions that there is no need to mention the Mist Hunters.  As not all Mist Hunters are Kaaer'dar'shin the following paragraph seems a bit out of place.  Separate references about the dagger always being made out of Tsor-shotak bone make this paragraph a bit out of place as well.  I would suggest this paragpraph is not necessary.

Quote
This Mist Hunters do not make their weapons out of tsor-shotak bones.The great lizards do not live near their territory, in and around the Mists of Osthemangar, and so they craft their blades out of the teeth and spines of the vile spined wyrms of the Mists. The blades are attached to their handles with the noxious spit of the wyrm, a sticky substance which hardens quite well, and wrapped in whatever available hide can be found. This affects the appearance of the blade. A Mist Hunter Rev'oq seems to be stained yellow with a black handle, a result of the materials used in the construction.


Also Azhira provided some suggestions for the overview paragraph that you did not incorporate.  Was this on purpose or just missed?

Overall I am still loving this weapon. :thumbup:




Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 20 August 2010, 07:37:03
I keep having the trouble of starting the edits and not getting to finish them. And it seems my last mention was wrong. Current edits are in yellow

Azhria's comments about the Mist Hunters are, I believe, specific to the mentions in those sections. The Mist Hunters use Rev'oqs that are not made of the same materials, and apparently are a subset of Kaaer'dar'shin (even though not all of them are Kaaer? We're running into one of those incidental obstacles in developing in the north: the Styralias Inconsistancy. It could be that the Mist Hunters and Kaaer are like rectangles and squares. Not all the Mist Hunters are Kaaer, but enough of them are to include them in the tribe?). Yes I think I'm tripping over older versions of the draft and holes in my own information. I can't remember but I seem to recall Azzy mentioning that the Mist Hunters wouldn't use tsor-shotak in their weapons since it can't be found by the mists, ergo it does need to be covered separately.

The bit with the overview was probably deliberate. I prefer to avoid outright use of someone else's writing where I can and Azhira occasionally prefers to rewrite sections of entries rather than lisiting problems or making suggestions. There was a bit of horrid grammar up there that i've fixed though

@Azhira: If you happen to read this, clear it up for us? Are the Mist Hunters separate or not? Are all of the Kaaer or what-have-you?

Also can't just tell me what is wrong with the existing overview? As it is, the only additions in your version I can note are about the tribe itself and their use of the lizard, which are mentioned both later in this entry as well as in the entry on the Tsor-shotak and the Kaaer belief system if not the tribe entry (which is sort of a muddle at the moment). As far as I can tell, it doesn't need to be included in the overview, which is about the weapon, and not the Kaaer religious system or the tsor-shotak lizard. I've left it unaltered. Overviews cover the gross entry, the entry itself covers details and I shall prefer to keep it like that.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 20 August 2010, 08:18:48
It only seems inconsistent due to the ongoing development of the tribe at the moment.

The Mist Hunters are considered a clan of the Kaaer. They are Kaaer, but the difference is that they are a separate, nomadic group with the majority of them located in the Mists area. They do not use traditional tsor-shotak materials (for daggers, clothing, t'lark etc) because the lizard is not native to the Osthemangar area. Instead, the Mist Hunters use bone from other animals such as the spinewyrm.

Do not mention the Hunters and the Kaaer as if they are separate groups. Instead mention the Hunters are a sub-group of the Kaaer tribe. Additionally, full-blooded Osther-Oc do become members of the Hunters giving them privileges that native-born Kaaer would have. But that is not relevant to this entry and covered in the tribe entry.

One issue I notice with this overview Valan is that it is rather lacking with regards to detail and passion for the tribe. Your overview gives a straight-to-the-point summary but I like to see some other details and bits that give some history and/or other interesting facts. The re'voq is significant to the Kaaer in that it is considered a religious sacred to'vatar. It has meaning to them. This entry is not about a simple dagger made of bone, but a tool divinely given to the Kaaer by their spirits. Its more than just a dagger and this is what you don't seem to grasp in this entry and what I am trying to convey to you.

Essentially, you are writing not only a weapon entry, but a mythological entry as well. You can't have a dagger without the religion nor can you have the religion without the dagger. The overview should make this clear to the reader right away. If the significance of both cannot be conveyed properly, then please take a moment to re-think this entry before a blarrow.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 12 September 2010, 22:22:39
At this point I would imagine that the overview has taken as much frankensteining as it can. If further edits are needed, it might just be easier to rewrite the section than to try to knock together something coherent from the various bits and pieces.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 14 September 2010, 02:39:33
The entry looks very good, Valan, with all the sufficient lore attached to the dagger. i am quite pleased how it turned out and I thank you for writing an essential piece for my tribe!  :thumbup:

+1 Aura. I'll leave the grammar/cohesion uri for others. I was concerned with the general concept of the re'voq as it pertains to the tribe and you pulled it off now.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 16 September 2010, 00:35:54
Right, Seeker, I'm going to blarrow this, hopefully you shant have any objections.


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Seeker on 16 September 2010, 09:18:14
Thwaaaaaangggggg!!!!!!
(http://www.santharia.com/dev/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=14405.0;attach=2732;image)


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 16 September 2010, 10:57:09
Hmm. I think that arrow needs an entry...


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 16 September 2010, 14:33:47
*hehe*  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 16 September 2010, 15:58:06
The Blarrow Arrow :grin:


Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 19 June 2012, 22:34:21
Just noticed this...

I'd like to request that a link to the Kaaer re'voq dagger (http://www.santharia.com/weapons/revoq_dagger.htm) entry be made in the main Race menu under the Kaaer tribe entry. That way, the tribe has a link to the beliefs, the T'lark war buckler and the dagger, which all are essential reading to understanding the tribe.



Title: Re: Kaaer'dar'shin Dagger
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 20 June 2012, 01:00:44
Your wish is my command, Azhira! Now updated and uploaded!  :cool: