Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => People of the World of Caelereth => Topic started by: seth ghibta on 22 December 2011, 23:42:48



Title: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 22 December 2011, 23:42:48
Recycling this thread to house the entry itself- It probably still needs polishing, and I'm waiting on advice about some details, but here's a first draft:


The Nerthers, also known as the Vernerthers,  Earthers, VerKnerthaerar

Categorization: people> guilds and groups> the Nerthers

Introduction:
Slowly bringing a dwarven sense of rigour and organisation to cities across Caelereth, the Nerthers were a society confined to larger underground settlements until relatively recently. Gradually though, the value of their trade is beginning to be realised aboveground, and the benefits can be smelt, or more significantly not smelt, by anyone walking down the streets of, for example, Marcogg.

The thergerim word Verknerthaerar translates roughly as “hidden noses” referring to the breathing masks worn as part of the traditional guild uniform, with very good reason. The Verknerthaerar, or Nerthers, as they are most commonly known above ground, deal in the more unpleasant areas of communal living. Broadly put, they specialise in collecting, processing and finding uses for the refuse of the larger dwarven settlements, as well as a growing number of towns aboveground. They not only collect waste and food scraps from homes and businesses, but sort it and rot it down for fertiliser, or in the case of certain kinds of waste, sell it on to tanners or scrap merchants. They also place great weight on study, and educate their apprentices in many aspects of engineering, chymistry and natural history.


Origin:
Nerther is not the oldest of dwarven occupations, having grown into a necessity only as dwarven settlements became big enough to require organization as far as the collection of refuse was concerned. Previously, it would be thrown down a deep crevasse, or into a pool of magma, and in some smaller settlements this is still how it’s done. But the need for a regular supply of fertiliser for farming, as well as the ever present danger of contamination of water supplies, meant that as settlements grew larger they required more careful management. The first guild of Nerthers was established in Kor Mithrid, the largest dwarven city in the Mithral Mountains, by Brygd KorKneph, a charismatic woman reputed to have an extraordinarily sensitive sense of smell. She set in place the various departments or orders of the guild, and saw to it that they enmeshed as closely as possible with the running of the city. She also outlined the strict rules and moral codes still held by the Nerthers, including the need to keep detailed records of everything that goes on, a fact which means we can trace the growth of the Nerthers from this one dwarven woman with a fierce hatred for all that was putrescent and wasteful, to the myriad and varied guilds now present across Sarvonia, and even beyond. With their spread into human cities, the thergerim name for them, the VerKnerThaerar, has been smoothed and colloquialised to Vernerthers, and finally the common terms used by most people, the Nerthers, or Earthers.

Appearance:
 The Nerthers all wear a distinctive uniform of protective clothing, designed to protect the wearer from contact with even the most pervasive substances. It generally consists of overalls made from treated leather, oiled regularly to keep it waterproof and buttoned into enormous leather gaiters, which are often reinforced with kaimun skin or certain gnomish lacquers to give extra resistance. The uniform is completed with gauntlets reaching to the elbow and hoods that fit close round the face. The wearer’s beard is often tucked away out of sight, or even worn in a little net, as to risk it getting dirty would be unthinkable. The gauntlets are treated with a special dye that, the Nerthers assert, is resistant to even the most putrescent and cloying substances. The dye turns the leather inky black, and so the symbol of a black hand has come to represent the Nerthers.

Though they do not always wear them, a Nerther can be easily recognised by their breathing masks, made of non-corrosive metals and layers of perfumed linen, to keep disease out and generally to make the more foul-smelling areas of their profession bearable. The masks cover the lower half of their faces entirely with a pouch of fabric held in a fine mesh basket. Some higher ranking Nerthers sculpt them into elaborate shapes such as beaks or fanged maws. When not wearing their masks, they’ll have the characteristic black gauntlets to make it clear that they are genuine Nerthers. As it is almost impossible to tell individuals apart in all this heavy garb, some customisation is common, and apprentices wear white fingerless covers to their gloves, both to signify that they have yet to really “get their hands dirty” and to instil the necessary habits of rigorous cleanliness expected of Nerthers, as it takes a great deal of washing to keep the white covers recognisably white. Masters of different departments often stitch designs into their overalls to make it clear which department they work in.


Territory:
The Nerthers are found in most dwarven cities, where they have been an integral part of the smooth running of their communities. With the flourishing of dwarven trade with human cities, and many dwarves moving out of the mountains and expressing dismay over the state of hygiene in human cities, there has been a call for Nerthers to apply their skills above ground. The first Nerther guild to be established above ground was in Marcogg, founded by the eccentric guildmaster Ulbi NeenGerInn, and after the success they had in cleaning up the town, many others have been established throughout Sarvonia in towns such as Nymerysys, where the idea of preventing future plagues was very well received. There are some less well-known guilds in dwarven cities outside of Sarvonia, such as the one in Tyr Faerath, which has long battled to keep the water supply clear of the poison that leaches from contrariwise salamander populations deep in the mountains. These guilds are harder for non-dwarves to see for themselves, but the records of Nerthers in human cities (where they are also known as Vernerthers, or Earthers) shows that there are guilds almost everywhere there are large populations of dwarves. A notable exception amongst human cities is Ximax, where the Boyzinna Fellowship Hall was already an established organization dealing with waste collection and recycling. There have been several attempts to set up a Nerther guildhouse in Ximax, but as of yet none, or at least no publicly recognised one, has survived the competition.

Organization:
The Nerthers have little in the way of internal hierarchy, operating largely by a system of apprentices and masters. In every guild there will be one guildmaster who deals with administration and overall organization, and several orders within the guild, led by one or two masters; experienced artisans and experts in a specialised aspect of the varied work the Nerthers do. The masters are in charge of groups of apprentices, who learn the key skills as they go and do the majority of the heavy work. Apprentices serve at least a year in every order before deciding which they want to specialise in. It’s only then that they can begin studying in earnest for the examinations, which are set by masters of the order and vary depending on individual guilds.

The guilds of different settlements operate largely independently, and so the Nerthers of different towns can differ significantly in their approaches to their work. The guild of Marcogg, for example, has a council of seven guildmasters who go to great lengths to maintain good relations with the watch and the rulers of the city. On the other hand, the guild of Nymerysys is reclusive and taciturn, with guild members forbidden from discussing guild business with non-members, and is reputed to be run by a single “muck queen” who is feared for her zealous hatred of dirt.

Trades:
The varied nature of Nerther work means it is not considered a trade strictly for males or females, though certain orders are heavily weighted towards one or the other, depending on the skills required. There is even a small but growing minority of non-dwarven members of the above-ground guilds, and the Marcogg guild accepted its first elven member last year. The orders found in each guild vary depending on the particular nature of each town, but certain orders are always found:

Piss-takers: collection and processing of urine. Useful in tanning, urine is generally sold, though in some smaller settlements they process it themselves and use the revenue earned from skins to help fund the guild. In terrestrial cities such as Ximax this order is not needed, as establishments such as the Boyzinna Fellowship hall take care of this independently, as well as some other refuse collection. This however is not seen by many Nerther guildmasters as the way things should be, and though not publicly acknowledged, it is common knowledge that a silent war between the Boyzinna Hall and the Nerthers has been underway for some years, over who should have responsibility for keeping the city clean.

Muck-rakers: collection and processing of other excreta. What cannot be used for tanning is generally  sent to be composted. This department is generally considered the worst to work in, and masters of it are regarded with awe by other Nerthers, and considered especially repellent by everyone else.

Rat-catchers: vermin control. Nerthers generally don’t try to exterminate all vermin from settlements, but instead try to keep the numbers from growing. In many towns they contract this out to individuals, by offering modest bounties for dead rats, vilerats, and other pests, especially those that spread disease. They do generally keep a small rat-catching order as well though, which focuses on “knowing the enemy”; keeping tabs on which pests are prevalent in the area and how many there are, as well as seeing to serious infestations. Many important discoveries about Santharian vermin can be attributed to the research of rat-catcher Nerthers, and their knowledge on skitch, skeeetohs, rats, vilerats, mice, cheerk worms, flies, and other pests is unrivalled except by the most dedicated experts.

Rot-gardeners: compost management. This is often the largest order in a guild, and certainly takes up the most space. Rot-gardeners work in a series of large chambers or sheds, where successively well-rotted composts are carefully tended and mixed. According to demand, the rot-gardeners can produce compost tailored to all manners of farming, and selling it to farmers is the most reliable source of income to the guild.

Worm-wranglers: breeding of animals which help with decay, and also of beneficial moulds and fungi to sell to healers and mages. Working closely with the rat-catchers and rot-gardeners, these Nerthers specialise in raising the creatures and plants which help them to rot down waste into useable compost. They are skilled in the care of mudworms, fleshworms, Aglan slugs (which are also used for food), etherus worms, Lín’már’jóh, as well as various moulds and fungi which help to decay all sorts of waste into useful compost.

Dredgers: responsible for keeping waterways free and clear. This is amongst the hardest work, and tends to attract wiry male dwarves who are good in small, damp spaces, and strong swimmers. The dredgers not only trawl silt and rubble from sewers and waterways, but tend to banks of yealm reed that help to purify waste water, and keep a close eye on the quality of the water to make sure no harmful substances are leaching into it.

Dross-dibblers: collection and processing of industrial waste, especially dross from metalwork and mining. Those who work in this order have to be especially careful to keep up their protective equipment. They are in charge of dealing with the waste products of metal work, ore refineries and all sorts of other industries. They are mostly female, requiring a detailed knowledge of alchemy to safely dispose of the chymicals produced.Dross-dibblers often have close relations with communities of Daran gnomish alchemists among the human cities, as they can provide many useful reagents in return for knowledge of chymical cleaning receipts.

Crumb-rats: collection and processing of household waste, mostly food. This is a small department in most settlements, where there is little food waste that doesn’t get re-used somehow, but in larger cities they are vital for keeping the markets, warehouses and slaughterhouses clean and free of foul odours that can foster disease. Almost everything they collect can go straight to the rot-gardeners. In partnership with the Piss-takers and Muck-rakers, this order make up what is known as the twilight patrol, the regular procession of Nerthers going door to door to collect household waste onto their great reeking carts, usually in late evening or early morning.

Beliefs and moral codes:
Since their founding by the charismatic Brygd KorKneph, the Nerthers have held certain rules with almost religious strictness, to the extent that many other dwarves regard them as rather odd, intense sorts of people.

They are fiercely aware of their reputation among the public, especially above ground, and so perhaps the most rigorously enforced rule is that a Verknerthaerar must always appear neat and clean in public. This of course is rather difficult given the nature of their work, but through regimes of regular washing, protective clothing and lavish use of scent to mask what cannot be avoided, the average Verknerthaerar will be cleaner than most people you might meet on the street. As guildmaster NeenGerInn put it, “Cleanliness is next to Varcopas”, but nobody is quite sure what he means by this, and when asked his successors on the board of Marcogg guildmasters generally pointed out that he had been a Dross-dibbler for fifty years before becoming guildmaster, and the levels of metal in his blood were somewhat more than is considered healthy.

After the belief in cleanliness, all Nerthers hold in their hearts a hatred of waste. Rot is healthy, as it is just a means of transition between states, but to waste anything is the worst outcome and to be avoided at all costs. Disease is believed to stem from the bad smells given off by things allowed to go to waste, and finding a use for such things before they become a nuisance is the only way to prevent contagion. It is this attitude that has led to many useful discoveries, such as the use of fleshworms in clearing up putrefying meat, or the methods for extracting valuable metals and ores from the dross of smith work. A Nerther can make soap from a dead sheep and a half-rotted apple crate, with the makings of some excellent compost to spare.

This attitude of course goes hand in hand with the need for education. Nerthers are expected to be educated not only in the basic skills required to do their jobs, but also in every aspect connected to the work. They are encouraged to cultivate enquiring frames of mind, and expected to contribute something to the sum of the guild’s knowledge if they wish to gain any sort of standing therein. An education is also another weapon in their constant fight to be respected by polite society.

As with most aspects of the Nerthers, the particular beliefs held by individual guilds varies greatly. In Marcogg, guildmaster NeenGerInn, besides being mildly lead-poisoned, was a great believer in keeping in the good books of important people, and to this day the guild works closely with the big merchants and nobles to make sure the town looks spotless and runs smoothly. Their cooperation with the watch has also proved beneficial,  as the Nerthers are often the ones who first come across bodies, and their expertise in the workings of decay mean they are well placed to tell how old a corpse is, and the precise circumstances of its becoming one. In Nymerysys, on the other hand, the guild leader is a mysterious figure known locally as the Muck Queen, and runs her guild largely on the understanding that rats are the greatest scourge of civilisation and must be eradicated without mercy. Thus the guild is run a little like a cross between an army and a nest of spies, emphasising secrecy and dedication to purpose. It is believed that the Muck Queen may even have a hand in the persistent and rather underhanded attempts to oust the Boyzinna Fellowship Hall of Ximax from their role as waste collectors to the city, or if not her then quite possibly those who trained under her. By all accounts the rumoured use of espionage, blackmail and some quite literally repellent means of sabotage reek (as it were) of that most mysterious Guildmaster’s methods.

Relation to santharian society:
Any traveller in Sarvonia can easily tell the difference between a city that employs Nerthers, and one that doesn’t, often without so much as opening their eyes. They may be rather zealous, and prone to haranguing passers-by who happen to drop rubbish in the street, but they do an excellent job of keeping things clean. They work with civic dignitaries and engineers to help design sewers and water supplies. They have at times been called in by healers during outbreaks of disease, to help quarantine areas, as nobody is so good at knowing where everything goes as the Nerthers. They are indispensable to farmers, especially dwarven mushroom growers, who rely on their specially mixed composts to produce regular crops. The Daran gnomish communities of many cities are on good terms with the Nerthers, with frequent exchange of alchymical knowledge and reagents. The knowledge they have contributed to researchers in many fields is limited only by the secrecy of the guilds. This secrecy has in some cases stoked the fires of urban legend. For example, the Nerthers in New-Santhala are known to the public as Unearthers, and are rumoured to be involved in all manner of intrigues, with connections to the thieves underground and several spy rings. Perhaps it is their masked, uniform appearance and the way they can be seen shuffling through the streets under loads of rubbish in the early hours of the morning, or perhaps it is just that people mistrust those who take what nobody else wants, but as of yet there has been no evidence to support these tales.

Despite all this vital work, the nature of the Nerther’s work is such that they come in for a measure of friendly ridicule. In cities above ground, where the guilds are relatively new, their arrival has spawned several new idioms. To be “gifted with black gloves” is to be laboured with all the dirtiest jobs. “Mask hours” are the times of day, usually late evening or early morning, when the masked faces of the Nerthers going about their collection rounds are a common sight on the streets, and even the name of Nerther is often used to describe something dirty, rotten or unpleasant. Of course, the Nerthers take grave exception to this, but the sad fact is that unless they can change the nature of all the sentient races, things are unlikely to change.


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 23 December 2011, 05:41:02
Aaaaah... I like fresh ideas, Seth! And this definitely sounds like one! :)

I don't know exactly how these guys could be called if we try to find a general name as maybe composting stuff only covers part of what they're doing? Then again I'm not a composing expert and probably wouldn't qualify for the job. It's not entirely clear what would all be part of their profession. Their field of expertise could range from gardening to cleaning sewers, so they'd be a bit of a health police maybe?

Anyone's thoughts on this one are welcome! Personally I like if we have something in Santharia, which is different and quite unique, and I think we have a fascinating idea here. Wonder why no-one else thought about something like this so far.

Here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjWPXybVjYE) Monty Python's take on decomposing BTW if you could use a smile :)


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: Seeker on 23 December 2011, 07:34:39
I would imagine they would also be in charge of disposing with the dead as well.  Especially when disease is involved.  Also disposing of human waste and using it for fertilizer.

When thinking through and developing this concept keep in mind the idea of "germs" really are not understood in Santharia.  However people do see patterns of sickness and infection and generally recognize that sick people get other people sick and rotted food makes ones bowels feel yucky, but they generally don't understand why like we do today.  There is some info on infection in the Pain remedies  (http://www.santharia.com/medicine/pain_remedies.htm) entry.

The idea of purifying or keeping water clean is an interesting one.  Lots of potential here.  In most areas I imagine the streams and rivers will be generally clean but in the bigger cities like Milkengrad the sewers and filth probably dirty the water sources pretty good.

In the caves I imagine the dwarves just chuck there trash into a molten pool of lava or down a deep chasm.  :grin:



Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: Valan Nonesuch on 23 December 2011, 08:03:49
Dwarves, at least don't have to worry about decomposing bodies, as they turn into stone.


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: Bard Judith on 23 December 2011, 15:09:14
Actually we Thergerim who do any underground gardening save anything that is organic/decomposable to go onto the mushroom beds...  and that includes nightsoil and nightwater.

However, I love the concept of having some of our Dwarven bachelors who live Aboveground getting disgusted with the sloppy way that human cities process waste and coming up with some ideas to help out - then having that evolve into a sort of Guild of Decayers.

Yealm Reed is a natural water purifier and can be planted deliberately downstream for city rivers... some places are beginning to take advantage of this already.

Urine is used in a lot of medieval trades, from dying to tanning to medicine (uurrgh) and so would not merely be wasted or discarded but probably collected.  That might be a separate group of people   (The Gong Guild?) who come round in the early mornings to collect the chamber pots?

Of course this only applies to cities and city folk.  Farmers already know how to integrate their various wastes back into the system, and what to mix them with (sawdust, straw, rotted leaves, etc.) to create the right PNK balance (though they wouldn't call it that!)


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: seth ghibta on 24 December 2011, 01:40:18
pretty much what I was thinking, Judith! there's a fair bit about agriculture in the dwarven employment entry, but I thought perhaps sorting the waste into decent fertiliser and transporting it to the appropriate fields might be a separate occupation. the tanning connection Dek has already covered for Ximax with his Boyzinna fellowship hall, so hopefully I can integrate with that a fair bit. I need to do lots of research into what is produced by these sorts of cities, and how it'd be dealt with.
Seeker, as far as the infection stuff goes I thought they'd maybe operate on the theory we had in medieval times, that bad smells spread sickness? that'd give them a reason to keep things clean, plus I had an idea for scented masks that might be fun.
as far as templates go, I wasn't entirely sure what to use? they seem to vary quite a bit, which makes sense I guess as the guilds and groups are pretty varied. should I just copy something that seem to fit?


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 24 December 2011, 02:06:32
For the Boyzinna Fellowship one, I am using Master Anfang's Template he used in his Masterwork.

I like what you are doing Seth btw.


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: seth ghibta on 24 December 2011, 02:30:21
I'll probably use that as well then. and thanks Dek, is it alright if I maybe have some questions for you later, to try and integrate them?


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 24 December 2011, 02:38:50
Of course Seth! Fire away! I am away for the next few days (at North Stradbroke Island) but will answer anything on my return :)


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: seth ghibta on 24 December 2011, 05:57:40
great! I'll send things your way as they occur.  :grin:


Title: Re: vague idea proposal: artisans of decay
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 27 December 2011, 07:49:09
whilst lugging the compost bin across the garden

Ah, lugging of compost bins. It is believed that many of mankind's greatest ideas were had while this undervalued activity was going on. Albert Einstein is said to have been putting out the potato peel when he thought: "This is taking forever; it's almost like time is different for me here." In similar vein, it was while engaged in this activity that Johannes Gutenberg decided he wanted to tell the whole world how he felt about those annoying green bits from carrot-tops. Less gloriously, it has long been rumoured that it was in a vain attempt to get out of doing this most unpleasant of chores that Vincent van Gogh cut off his own ear; alternatively, his duel with Gaugin was over whose turn it was to perform this thankless task.

I'm Athviaro, and you've been reading Utter Rubbish*.

*Previously Patent Nonsense.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 28 December 2011, 00:27:51
*applause!*

well, I've cobbled a first draft together up at the top of this thread, so comments'd be welcome.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 29 December 2011, 05:02:04
Seth, I promise I'll answer your PM within a couple of days. There is a game of test cricket on tv at the moment and it is getting very exciting. :)


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 29 December 2011, 06:44:33
I wouldn't dream of coming between a gentleman and cricket, sir.  :grin:


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Bard Judith on 29 December 2011, 09:40:38
Seth, Seth, Seth, I love you!

From such satisfying phrases as "putrescent and wasteful" down to the nitty-gritty of the supremely earthy (hah!) and descriptive names, this is a wonderful wee (sniggers again) entry.    May I suggest 'Dross-dribblers' as a substitute, though, so that a) each name remains unique and memorable, and b) this name is rendered (sorry, sorry, can't help myself) more precise and descriptive?    The titles are perfectly dwarven - frank, slightly rude, colloquial, and completely accurate! 

I truly want to see an illustration of a Nerther   (an Earther?  :)  Perhaps in some communities that is exactly what the guild name has evolved into )  in full protective gear.  I can envision the elaborate mask, like a medieval plague doctor's beak, or a festival knight's helm... the gaiters and gloves... too perfect.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 29 December 2011, 18:44:30
Why do I get the feeling this thread is going to attract more than its fair share of puns?  :grin: Thankyou Judith! dross-dibblers is much better, I was struggling to think of a good name by then, I think. I have been sketching them, because it helps me picture things, so I could stick a picture up here if people are curious, though I'm aware it isn't the sort of style the compendium uses.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Bard Judith on 29 December 2011, 23:32:54
Purty please.  I should love to see your concept art!    It is possible that it may inspire me...or become a cooperative illustration if you are so gracious....  (bats eyes hopefully)


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 30 December 2011, 02:25:14
I'd be honoured! I'll see about rooting out the least sketchy sketch just as soon as I get back home- travelling across from my parents' tomorrow.
Oh, and I added in some alterations, as you suggested, tell me if I've missed any mention of dross-takers.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 02 January 2012, 23:08:25
here's a sketch, then. sorry about the grubbiness of the scan, but I guess that's kinda fitting, in this case. ;)
(http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx7/sugarhiunicorn/dwarfcomp.jpg)

and here is a  link (http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx7/sugarhiunicorn/dwarf.jpg) to a better quality version.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Bard Judith on 03 January 2012, 17:31:21
And here... is the coloured version.   Thank you so much for your wonderfully inspiring entry and awesome sketch!

Dedicated to, of course, Seth:  Two Dwarven Rotgatherers!

(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/401695_10150455697778587_517153586_8836331_2083140264_n.jpg)



Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 03 January 2012, 18:04:30
*hehe* They look really cute in these overalls, and really well made into a colour picture with background and stuff based on Seth's sketch! And it's always funny to spot elements of other elements, which made it into the picture, like e.g. the fishing bucket from the Nepris swamps, which has miraculously made it into what looks like a sewer... :lol:  But aside from the VerKnerThaerar also the other details are nice: The broken barrel, the grate, the one-sided shovel... This really helps to make the entry alive, so aura +1 for that - congrats to aura no. 300 therefore! :thumbup:

Methinks a few shadow things could still be fixed, like the face mask at the female worker in the background seems to lack said shadows and maybe a few more folds could be added to the guy in front as well.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 03 January 2012, 19:09:03
 :shocked:
That.
is amazing! Thank you so much Judith, that looks fantastic! I love how you've done the female one's overall, and the colours are perfect! I'm afraid I have to spoil your neat 300 aura already.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Seeker on 06 January 2012, 13:18:23
Um...  so Judith you did this picture in one evening?  Yes based on Seth's sketch (which was very good) , I understand but that is quite impressive.   And yes another hidden gem not posted in the artist forum.  sneaksy little Bard. 

Oh hold on, I just noticed the one in the back is female.  Not sure the knee guards are needed up there too  :shocked:. But then again what do I know.

Great work both of you.  I am loving the amount of activity we are seeing nowadays. Both writing and illustration.  Very inspiring.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Bard Judith on 06 January 2012, 15:09:39
Here is the updated version, based on Artimidor's critique: more wrinkles, less glare, and the little extra detail of an ID number.  Those dwarves are pretty organized, ya know....

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/408921_10150461211443587_517153586_8856903_2124439502_n.jpg)


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 06 January 2012, 16:49:35
Lovely, Judy, lovely! :thumbup: Also the spiders add an interesting touch BTW, very cool!

Now I have to read Seth's entry soon, as I see progress has been made on all fronts, and that's marvellous to see fresh ideas being realized so fast!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Bard Judith on 06 January 2012, 17:29:40
I like to imagine what might have wrenched the grate bar askew.. and was it coming or going?    :)


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 06 January 2012, 19:02:47
*hehe*  :grin:


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang on 09 January 2012, 07:11:00
It's a great pleasure to see you submitting an entry again, Seth!  :heart:

As usual, it's an imaginative and well-written one, and the collaborative picture with Judy will takes fantastickal realism to a pleasingly streetwise and gutter-savvy level!

After a day working at the computer, my mistreated eyes do not allow me to comment in detail today, but I just wanted to throw in an idea:

Those Nerthers that work in human cities - would they have developed relations with Daran gnomish alchemists, who might well be interested in the development of fertilizers, and in chymical experiments involving rotting or fermenting waste products more generally?


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 09 January 2012, 08:52:53
I promise a response in a day or two Seth.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 12 January 2012, 05:16:40
Quite a brilliant entry you've got there, Seth, now that I finally got to read it! Another aura +1 for getting the idea so well elaborated within just a few days after its initial conception - and also providing the super-detailed sketch for Judy's pic! :thumbup:

The way you put it together their genesis really becomes clear and all the fields they are needed in are nicely presented. We even have typical Tharian name for them with the Nerthers and Earthers, and I like those very much as well! I like such details you've put in there like the Muck Queen and her spy ring... :lol: Writing, spelling included, is practically perfect, and it's always a pleasure to read well organized and flawlessly written entries! :grin:

A few things:

- In the territory section I've spotted a "dwarfs", which we usually write "dwarves".

- In general I personally always recommend to use the Tharian name as the primary one rather than say, a Thergerim expression or a Styrásh one. We haven't done that consistently, but I think it makes the most sense of the Compendium, which has a human stuff primarily, would use a common word first. E.g. a flower called "Cavernfire Bush" is easier to recognize through the word alone than "Kayfer" or "Khorultir", which are dwarven names. So if possible I'd opt to make e.g. "Nerthers" or "Earthers" the entry's main name. That's just my suggestion of course, which I think makes the most sense in the long run.

- I had to smile at the "Piss-takers", because "taking the piss" apparently is also an expression... So I assume the pun is intended... ;) In general the names are very appropriate and at the same time some of them are quite funny, like the Dross-dibblers or the Worm-wranglers - I see you know exactly how to make things interesting!

- Marcogg, New-Santhala and Nyermersys with their sewer systems feature prominently (urban legends included *hehe*), so you also make sure to embed everything properly - high marks for that! Even idioms aren't forgotten and fit just perfect!

So to sum in up: You've really thought it through and made a highly unique and enjoyable concept Santharian reality! Applause, Seth, very well done! :clap:


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 12 January 2012, 05:23:27
thankyou Arti! that means an awful lot coming from you. thanks for spotting those points, I'd tend to agree. I think I used Verknerthaerar because that was what I started off calling them, but it'd be an awful lot easier on my spelling if I swapped it, so I've no problem with that.

@Dek- thankyou, though like I said, there's no rush!


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 14 January 2012, 06:09:57
aaand edits made as suggested by Art and Shaba in blue.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang on 14 January 2012, 07:52:24
Witty, surprising, thorough, and nose-mocking, this is a gem that I would have raked a lot of muck to find, if I'd needed to, which fortunately I didn't. I can see the Piss-takers and the Dross-dibblers prowling the streets, shaking their heads on occasion of the dirty dispositions of their fellows, mucky and smelly from head to toe, but proud to be the cleanest thing in town. Wonderful! The Santharian city streets are suddenly richer, more alive, populated with Sethish originality - and, last but not least, they're cleaner now! 

At times, I thought the entry might be a gentle parody of a flatmate obsessed with cleanliness - but this association might say more about me than about your flatmates.

Just a few details:

Quote
On the other hand, the guild of Nymerysys is reclusive and taciturn,
Quote
In Nymerysys, on the other hand, the guild leader is a mysterious figure known locally as the Muck Queen,
It's "Nyermersys". You're missing out the first "e", and have an extra "y".

By the way, I've wondered for a while how one actually pronounces Nyermersys. I'm at a loss there, myself.


Quote
Dross-dibblers: collection and processing of industrial waste, especially dross from metalwork and mining. Those who work in this order have to be especially careful to keep up their protective equipment. They are in charge of dealing with the waste products of metal work, ore refineries and all sorts of other industries. They are mostly female, requiring a detailed knowledge of alchemy to safely dispose of the chymicals produced.Dross-dibblers often have close relations with communities of Daran gnomish alchemists among the human cities, as they can provide many useful reagents in return for knowledge of chymical cleaning receipts.
... space missing before last sentence...

Quote
For example, the Nerthers in New-Santhala are known to the public as Unearthers, and are rumoured to be involved in all manner of intrigues, with connections to the thieves underground and several spy rings.
.. capitalise: Thieves Underground (proper name) ...


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 15 January 2012, 17:42:50
As for "Nyermersys": It's actually a Styrásh name, which means "Town of Two Battles" (battle/two) and needs to be pronounced as defined in the Styrásh Pronunciation Guide (http://www.santharia.com/languages/styrash/pronunciation.htm).

Min wrote concerning the "y": "A sound that does not occur in Tharian. Pronounced similar to i, but with lips rounded like when pronouncing u or o." Don't know if that makes it any clearer, but probably he got it from me somewhere. It's actually the sound of the German "ü", so written in German it would be "Nüermersüs", which should make things a bit clearer for Shab at least... :)

@Seth: I'll see to fix the small things Shabakuk mentioned in the entry myself, as I'm going to prepare this one already this weekend to have it ready for the next update with pic and everything, okeydokey?


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 15 January 2012, 17:58:42
Seth, no problem from me with regards to the questions you asked me via PM. Sorry it took so long to respond.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang on 15 January 2012, 20:23:17
I see that this has Arti's green tick, so there is no need for me to blarrow, but an opportunity to give a congratulatory aura point.

Arti, please note that the minor mistakes I pointed out in my last post are still in the text. :) (EDIT by my woken-up brain: "Arti said he's spotted that, old Shabakuk.")



PS: And thanks for illuminating me on Styrash pronunciation! So the stress would be on the final syllable?


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 16 January 2012, 04:10:13
Ack! sorry, I should have checked this earlier. If you haven't already got started on this Arti, Dek's OKed some changes I wanted to make. If you've already got it prepared don't worry, could I maybe write a paragraph or so to be tacked on later?
Thanks guys for your comments, they've all been really helpful, as ever.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 16 January 2012, 04:22:10
I've already prepared it, but if you mark changes in another colour you can still add/change something, no problem, Seth!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 16 January 2012, 04:27:32
I will get to work on that now, thanks Arti!


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 16 January 2012, 04:46:01
and there we go. three short passages added into the body of text, in yellow.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Shabakuk Zeborius Anfang on 16 January 2012, 06:44:08
Haha, I love the yellow additions! That would make for a splendid RPG story: "Dirty Secrets: The Garbage War Diaries".


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 18 January 2012, 09:27:22
Great work, Seth! +1 Aura from me ... the sun effected me badly before ... I got to thinking of the VerKnewThaerar and came up with a couple of songs about them and the stuff the collect ... I'll type them up and post them. ps. Be afraid ... be very afraid.


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 19 January 2012, 04:41:16
Yep, many thanks for the additions, Seth - will all be included in the next update!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: The VerKnerThaerar
Post by: seth ghibta on 19 January 2012, 04:44:40
I've kind of been tempted to write something more specific concerning this war, Shaba, or at least the Muck Queen. No concrete ideas yet though.
oh brilliant, Dek songs about this should be great! And thank you Arti! Aura to thank you for putting up with my awkwardness. ;)