Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => The Santharian Library => Topic started by: Phara ach Artajthe on 25 January 2012, 07:39:44



Title: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 25 January 2012, 07:39:44
Do frog has a leggs?


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 26 January 2012, 05:23:48
Don't know where you get all those spaces, which pop up randomly in your texts, Phara... You have way to many of those! Try to separate words just with a single space, and don't put them in front of full stops or commas or it gets all cluttered.

Also, question: What's "lamnes"? You use it more than once and, well, it's not an English word I fear. :nerd: You seem to actually mean families, right?

I'm also not sure about the Ice Tribe legal system you mentioned, maybe you found it in the entry or got it from Alt? If that's the way it is up there, let's have a look at the first poem for now:

Father's goodbye

He just stood
with tear in eye
silver snow and sapphire sky
called me to stay, called me to stay

No, I couldn't stay
War called, so strong
I kissed him on the forehead (or maybe just "his forehead")
So long my son, so long

Remember well
Words I am going to say
Those that kill me
You will have to slay

That's it basically. Guess there's otherwise no problem with this one in its short poignant way, assuming its Ice Tribe custom the way your describe it :)


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 26 January 2012, 10:01:41
Thanks  for suggestions :thumbup: . I will remove spaces .  Lamnes is name for clan among Ice Tribes . There is no legal system among Ice Tribes , so I implemented custom way tribal societies deal with murder . Altario did not say  it is wrong , should I consult him about it ?


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 26 January 2012, 10:20:54
Suggestions implemented  . Ready for more . One question : Do it have to be Kill me instead of have killed me ? Because father is already dead  .


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 26 January 2012, 10:45:52
Hi Phara,

If you look at the way that Artimidor and I use punctuation and the way you use it, you'll see that neither of us have a space before punctuation marks, and mostly only use one space after them. Do you suppose you could try to do that as well? I find it a lot easier to read through entries when there are no spaces before punctuation marks. It also makes it easier for Artimidor when he needs to integrate entries into the compendium, if the entries have the same formatting 'style'.

I hadn't heard of an Ice Tribe called Lamnes before. I'll have to check that out for you.

Oh I see now ... in the entry they say that clans are called lannes not lamnes ... you will need to fix those up. I'm guessing that lannes means clan in the Ice Tribe language ... so maybe consider just using 'clan' in the poems, to help those of us who aren't Ice Tribe experts know what they mean. The Compendium is written primarily in Tharian, and I'd presume that clan is the Tharian word for lannes.

Yes, I think Altario should be asked about the tribal laws, just so he can give his ok on it. He may have, for example something quite different for it being planned. It is always a good idea to get the advice/suggestions of the person in charge of a particular region/tribe/whatever before doing something that can impact on them. I'll draw Altario's attention to your peoms for you, if you like.

I hope I didn't scare you off or anything with what I've said here. Have an aura for listening to advice and acting on it.

Dek


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Bard Judith on 26 January 2012, 21:38:04
I like this one a lot, so this is the one I have given some editing advice for!

Death of queen  =  The Queen's Death

Glorious queen, of beauty full
Singed with voice so strong  = who sang with voice so strong
That reached  up to the sky  = That reached up to the sullen sky    (added the adjective for scansion)
O , ravens you fly so long       =  O, ravens, you fly long                   ( removed weak word, also repairs scansion)


O, ravens, ravens, ravens
Wind is under your wings   = The wind's beneath your wings  (just fixing scansion again)
Since beginning of time     
You can see all of things   =  You can see all things  ('of' is unnecessary in English grammar.  Removing it fixes scansion)

Have you seen the king,       = Ravens, have you seen the king?
Proud he is, my loved one
Riding in front of an army       = Riding at the army's front   (better scansion and stress)
To do what has to be done   =  To do what must be done (stronger word choice, scansion)

Now there are hundreds        = Now there are hundreds of your kind    (NOW there are HUNdreds OF your KIND - four beats per first and third line, as with the rest of the poem)
Of your kind, covering  sun     = Covering the sun (COVerING the SUN - three beats in second and fourth line, as with rest of poem)
So Battle of Winds must be over  = The Battle of the Winds is through    (major rewrite but the line as it stands has no rhythm or proper number of syllables :)  )
And where is my man?                 (wonderful poignancy!)

They haven't said a word              = The warriors did not say a word   ('They' otherwise can only refer back to the ravens.  Is that what you meant?)
Just dropped severed hand           = Just dropped a severed hand
She looked  her with despair          = She looked upon it with despair
And dead she fall on the land         = And dead fell on the land           (I assume you want this all in past rather than present tense.)



Wonderfully powerful images at the heart of this poem!  For writing in a second language you have done very well.
Another aura for you from the Bard.  Thanks for jumping in and being creative with little fear!

Judith


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 26 January 2012, 21:57:55
Like Art, lets take these one at a time. :D

I'm no poet, and I know it.  I leave that to the Sordoc's of the world.  So, I will only comment to the Ice Tribeyness of the Introduction and tone of the poem.

Phara, as Dek states, the correct spelling is Lannes.  The blood feud seems reasonable to me.  I'm not sure the consequence of not following it would be so high, but we can tweek that to be a tribal thing and not part of all the Ice Tribe culture.  Afterall, each has to have its own quirks.  Where I disagree with Dek, is in dropping the name Lannes.  Personally, I would keep it, as it adds to the authenticity of it.  Though, you could say "punishing of the murderers is  left to family and lannes (the Ice Tribe name for clan) of the murdered one."  Then it does make it clear for the reader.  Then you can leave all other references to Lannes as they are.

My only other quibble is minor as well.   You say that children follow him walking down the street. I'd drop "the street", and just have the children following him.  "Street" creates a mental image that doesn't really apply.  Other than the Remusians, these other Ice Tribes will be very primitive in their housing and communities.  There wont be streets that houses are built beside.  A community will be a hodge podge of shelters built kinda piggly wiggly with no real plan.


I will comment on the others tonight.  Off to work.  Good job, Phara.  :D


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Irid alMenie on 26 January 2012, 23:55:44
Judy: Since the queen asks of the ravens where the king is, I assume the 'they' does refer to the ravens (first stanza: third person, followed by first person, last stanza third person again). At least, that's what makes the most sense to me :)


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 27 January 2012, 02:09:32
Everybody thank you very much for your assistance
Deklitch: I removed spaces before( and after) punctuation marks( hope I haven't missed some).  I corrected lamnes to lannes  ( sorry about that ). Thank to you and Artimidor for correcting. No you didn 't  scare me off , every comment is welcome. Thanks for aura.
Judith : Thank you for compliments (“ I like this one a lot” and “ wonderful and  powerful images “).I implemented your advices. Except : “they” do refer to ravens , so I didn't change it . if I should please tell me . Thanks for them to, they were really helpful . Thanks  for aura also .
Altario: I corrected lamnes to lannes  ( sorry about that ).  Also removed street . Expecting new comments .
Irid: Yes “they” refer to ravens .  Thank you for comment  and support .


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 27 January 2012, 02:10:49
Suggestions implemented. Ready for more.


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 27 January 2012, 10:45:29
Comments and edits in Lavender :D

This song written down by Lyrotal Draconall, researcher of the North, was for centuries passed down from father to son among Ice Tribes. It deals with a very important issue for every tribal Sarmanian   society, feud (blood revenge). Since Among   Ice Tribes there is no developed legal system and punishing of the murderers is  left to family and lannes( the Ice Tribe name for  clan ) of the murdered one. Therefore, children are from an early age learned taught   that their duty is to avenge the death of their relatives. Since all members of  lamnes share the same blood, they must kill any man from killers  lamnes to fulfill  they  duty. This last sentence is a bit awkward.  Perhaps, As each member of a lanne is considered to share the same blood, all the members of the offended lanne feel it is their duty to take the life of the murderer, or at the very least, someone from the other lanne.

        If someone does not make partake in the feud(blood revenge), he is considered as a disgraced man and inferior, and among other things, he loses the right to get married and the right to eat with and to advise with the warriors. When he goes somewhere the children will follow him and sing this song to further add to his humiliation.


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 27 January 2012, 20:43:13
What I always find interesting about your comments Altario is how you often say what colour you'll write in and you invariably use another one... I should start doing that. Give them something to think about other than how evil I am about grammar.


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 27 January 2012, 21:12:15
Check your monitor.  :P


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Bard Judith on 27 January 2012, 22:31:07
(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417201_10150504367088587_517153586_9003476_312717526_n.jpg)

A quick little doodle / pastiche inspired by the Raven Queen poem.   :)  Just view small for best effect! 


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Bard Judith on 27 January 2012, 22:35:31
Yes, Art, I know we've used that background before!  Those billowing red clouds were just what I needed to suggest the distant furor of battle, and the mournful rain adds pathetic fallacy....

:)  It should be taken down to about 80 percent and any infelicities of fuzziness or pixelation will be avoided.  Face, for example, was deliberately left blurred....


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 27 January 2012, 22:49:43
Altario: Implemented. Thanks for help.
 Awkward sentence:  I will try to explain feud :) Feud I tried to describe was present in antique Greece, and is present in rural parts of Albania.(among Vikings, Serbs and Croats, Iranians, Kurds and as far as i know in every society with clans).
Example:If man from clan A kill man from clan B(In that way of thinking: clan A take warrior from clan B). =>Justice is to clan B take warrior from clan A. (A tooth for a tooth ).=>Every man from clan B, try to kill any man from clan A (not necessarily murderer).
In this way of thinking individual is not legal subject. Clan is legal subject.
Athviaro: I like his sense of humor to. :) It is very good.
Judith: It is great honor when your poem inspire someone, especially a lady. And when it inspire creation of such a beautiful picture. Can I give aura?


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 27 January 2012, 22:59:01
Suggestions implemented. Ready for more.


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 28 January 2012, 03:04:22
Concerning your picture, Judy: It's a great idea to use the masses of ravens up there to suggest a kind of bad omen, the inevitable fate - this part is very well done! Also the background sky is very effective and reused or not, it does its job very well!

I have a bit of a problem with the face part however, which I think isn't quite as good as it could be. I assume the intention is to show the foreshadowing of death on her partly dark face (could even be literally a raven's shadow...), but the black interferes a bit too much with the face and/or the transition isn't soft enough. It might also be worth a thought to engulf the whole body half a bit in darkness so express that she's in transition, but that's just an idea. Basically I think a bit playing around with it could make the central idea behind it work better. But with everything else I'm quite happy! :thumbup:


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 28 January 2012, 10:20:34
 :D Phara, I understood what you were trying to say, just pointing out that how you said it was a bit awkward.  There are some places where you removed the strike out words, but failed to put in the yellow replacement words.  Maybe take a second look at my revisions.

If you have further questions, let me know.  I'll get to the next Poem tomorrow. :)


Judith;  A wonderfully moody pic full of emotion and as Arti says, foreboding.  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 28 January 2012, 11:01:10
Implemented.  Waiting for tomorow. :)


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 30 January 2012, 11:15:28
Suggestions implemented. Ready for more.


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Bard Judith on 30 January 2012, 11:50:54
will work on pic, just busy in RL atm.   Got back from immigration office with good news regarding our new visas (and hence our ability to remain in country, work, and live for next two years!) 


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 30 January 2012, 12:25:24
Don't they know who you are?  It should be automatic. :D


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Athviaro Shyu-eck-Silfayr on 30 January 2012, 18:23:07
Are they not grateful that you want to stay and falling over themselves to persuade you?


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 04 February 2012, 11:16:38
No more sugestions?


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Phara ach Artajthe on 25 February 2012, 03:57:04
In immortal words of Erick Theodore Cartman: " SScrew you guys Im going home"        ,,!,,


Title: Re: Ice Tribe songs
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 25 February 2012, 04:04:27
Statements like these don't seem to be the proper way to communicate around here, Phara...