Santharian Development

Organization and General Discussions => The Continent of Nybelmar => Topic started by: Friadoc Sandydowns on 17 February 2006, 15:17:00



Title: I need clarification....
Post by: Friadoc Sandydowns on 17 February 2006, 15:17:00
I'm new to Nyblemar and pretty much the whole of Caelereth. I read the krean men entry and from what I read is it true that:

- The Lillivear and Aestera united in times of war (what war I do not know)

-Their relationship with nature is in a way semi-druidic (in their level of preservation)

- They are not fond of war and violence but can protect themselves

- Diplomats and the such are considered mainly as men's jobs

- Women are more likely to become preistesses

- Their weapon of choice is Magic

- Fidelty is uncommon

-  They are more artistic than the sarvonians

-  They are more laid-back then the Sarvonians

- They are more civilised than Sarvonians :lol  



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 17 February 2006, 16:30:00
Hello Friadoc! Welcome to Nybelmar!

:: realizes that someone actually read the Krean entry and tries to speak with eyes-watering ::

That entry needs to be updated actually (to simplify and eliminate the few linguistic errors), but yes you are definitely on the right track. I will answer all your questions tomorrow - and post at your welcome-thread - if that is alright with you? It's very late here and I really need to go to sleep :rolleyes

Will respond in the morning! Just wanted to let you know that I saw this thread :D  



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Mina on 17 February 2006, 16:45:00
Their weapon of choice is magic?  There's a culture as magical as the Ximaxians?  Maybe I should do some research in this area as well...




Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 17 February 2006, 16:51:00
Coren has some problems with getting his magic up though..;)  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Bard Judith on 17 February 2006, 20:50:00
More civilized?  Hey!  That depends on how you want to define 'civilized'....

We loyal Sarvonians might say they are 'more effete'.... 'vainer'... 'heads-in-the-clouds dreamers'...'indolent folk who overuse the power of magic for petty purposes'.... I could go on, but you see my point...

( Coren, don't blast me with a fireball now - you know I love your guys! :lol  )



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 18 February 2006, 03:43:00
Hey! That is not fair! You posted before I even had a chance to weave my webs of enticement...

Just look at all the commotion here! :devilish  Maybe I should create a few characters and pass them off as newbies to draw some attention to Nybelmar...

WHAT? I said that outloud? |I




I'm working on the answers Friadoc :)  I'm told our wireless server will be down for maintenance (does anyone actually believe that?) today, so I'll see if I can post them from somewhere else in town.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Friadoc Sandydowns on 18 February 2006, 04:43:00
Thats fine with me. Just reply when you get the time.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 18 February 2006, 12:43:00
The Lillivear and Aestera united in times of war (what war I do not know)

Yes. Although it is not really necessary at this point here is some background to the story:

The timeline points somewhere around 5500 b.S. The Earth Peninsula is in turmoil. Each tribe fighting almost everyone else and more often than not factions within itself. A very chaotic age.

The most advanced among the tribes are the Aestera and the Lillivear, but after five decades of warring against the other you find a very frail composition on either side. The endless conflict between them has left both weak, their society fragmented. Everyday more of their realm is left in ruins – not only from the battle between them, the continuing raids by other tribes also had its toll. They no longer can afford to spend resources for the finer moments of life or even for improving the splendour of their kingdoms. Realization strikes that unless they, the two strongest tribes of the peninsula, unite, neither will survive this period of disarray.

So I would say it wasn’t exactly one major war that brought the Aestera and the Lillivear together but all the sheer multitude of skirmishes and this prolonged atmosphere of insecurity. Once they are united the other tribes realize just how strong they might be together, they are forced to join forces out of the fear of extermination and move towards the Krean for a final strike. Of course you know what happened in the end ;)  The Krean won but the consequences weren’t pleasant for any of the sides. Actually that is why the Krean became pacifists: they were sick of the “wasted resources” (including lives) and an unnecessary diversion of their energy. You see, the Krean are too into comfort and enjoying life and its aesthetic pleasures to invest effort in warfare.

The following centuries saw the rise of the first Krean Empire, which controlled a good three fifths of the peninsula. What you have to understand here is that they did not bring all the other tribes under their rule out of a passion for conquest or even martial glory. If they were left unattended doubtlessly more wars would crop up – and hostilities are bad for trade… No trade means no prosperity, no riches to pay for the luxuries or create works of art. And the Krean simply could not allow that to happen ;)  It did not take a lot of effort to overpower the other tribes really: They had already enfeebled each other with centuries of war and famine and now with the two major power of the peninsula working together instead of against each other…

A few centuries later the fist Krath Empire would take over from the Krean. Mostly because the other tribes had had enough with that air of superiority the Krean wore all the time (even without realizing it). The rest of the peninsula had been alienated from everything to do with the Krean and their “civilization”. They thought it too high a price to pay for a flourishing social order.



-Their relationship with nature is in a way semi-druidic (in their level of preservation)

Yup; that is why they hold elves in such high esteem. I am not an expert on elves, so what I am about to say may not be right but perhaps contrasting the Krean with elves may clarify the concept:

Firstly: The Krean are not ‘elves without pointy ears’. As I see it, elves define themselves in reference to Nature. They respect and care for nature and all its life forms so much because they are Nature. “Styrás” which means “female elf” in the elven tongue is derived from “styrá“ (“Nature”). Another interesting detail: the verb “to be” is “styrán“. Elves see themselves as a part of its grander splendour.

The Krean are not elves without pointy ears; despite their unique approach to life they are before anything human. Beauty is an extension of the Self. Nature is to be appreciated for its beauty; it is to be loved and enjoyed rather than respected. For the Krean, nature is something that must be mastered. It must continually be cultivated for efficiency and shaped to bring out a greater beauty.

Nonetheless they regard themselves more as “editors” who have to tweak something little here and there so to say than the composer. Nature already has great beauty latent in it. On general the Krean try to preserve nature as it is, making alterations where needed.

The Krean are “wardens” of nature not its children. In their meditations they try to become One with it – elves are One. ‘Becoming one’ first presupposes the existence of something other than yourself and then implies an ‘act’. But in doing that the Krean differ from the normal human tribes: In “mastering” nature they do not try to overcome or subjugate it to their power. Instead they “fuse”, merge with it and guide its existence as an extension of theirs.


- They are not fond of war and violence but can protect themselves & - Their weapon of choice is Magic

Absolutely true. Their magic was also the strongest on Nybelmar at the time (until the Year of Darkness 1648bS). But everything we know about the Krean is second-hand information; no has been no contact with that peninsula after the Year of Darkness.


- Diplomats and the such are considered mainly as men's jobs &  Women are more likely to become priestesses

Hmmm… Not exactly. What you say is true for the Lillivear but quite the opposite holds for the Aestera. With the Lillivear, men take care of the more ‘mundane’ matters; the arcane and the ‘spiritual’ are generally left in the command of women.

Just the opposite of the Lillievar, here women take care of the affairs of state and men handle the arcane. But the Aestera, apart from the water priestesses, are less religious. Aesteran magic is purely magic; it’s something you are schooled in. I guess one could say that the learning and teaching of magic is almost a science among the Aestera (that’s why their magic system is written from the Aesteran point of view). In time Lillivear magic (the magic of the earth priestesses) was also “secularized” by these Aesteran schools I mentioned so men could also use it.

But you should not think that the Lillivear society values women less or that their power-politics are more patriarchal. Quite the opposite actually: With the Aestera men and women always had a very equal standing. Before they merged with the Aestera, women were a bit more in the forefront of Lillivear society. Even today the strongest magic of the Krean is that of the Lillivear priestesses of Ankriss (the High Goddess of Earth).

Therefore: When you put the two pieces of glass on top of each other this is the scene you would see at a “Krean” council: Men generally from Lillivear sections and women generally from Aesteran ones.

Summing up with the help of some images: Lillivear = Earth ; Aestera = Water. If the Lillivear are the bright rays of sunshine, the Aestera are silver shafts of moonlight striking in their graceful serenity.


- Fidelity is uncommon
What exactly do you mean here? Can you give me a hint about where you inferred that from?  


- They are more artistic than the sarvonians
I don’t think even a devoted Sarvonian would not try to counteract your statement. Aesthetic appreciation and value is central to the Krean way of life.


- They are more laid-back then the Sarvonians.
You could say that (if you are only making the comparison among humans). That definitely is the picture in the middle echelons of Krean society: Very relaxed and well… happy. There is an interesting saying from the great Krean metropolis of Sihitara (one which has yet to go on the site): If you are looking for misery, get yourself more gold.

The Krean realm (the Twin Kingdom) was the most prosperous on Nybelmar – and that took a lot of cunning and effort. Metaphorically speaking, the Krean ran a “trade empire” within the Grand Empire of Krath: they controlled the money. The upper ranks of Krean society are excellent schemers – they also have to work a lot harder than everyone else not only to maintain what they personally have but to insure the smooth running of the system they established. Of course the accumulation of these concerns makes them a bit more stressed and anxious than your average Krean, but they still would pass as very calm next to a Sarvonian human.

The Krean are a very paradoxical society: They like to keep their destiny in their own hands; they want to be in charge of what happens to them. Strangely, at the same time they are very fatalistic. Those in power scheme day and night (why do you think they have such a sophisticated poison industry other than that they live in a rainforest and their propensity towards flora?) but they do not lose sleep over what might happen to them. If they fail, they would think it was supposed to be – and that well… everyone is going to die one day…

I know; it seems hard to understand how they strive so hard to be masters of their own fate yet at the same time remain so fatalistic. I will borrow a concept from the French-Lebanese historian/writer Amin Maalouf (maybe you’ve heard of him): Fate to a Krean is what wind to a sailing-vessel is. It is not up to the captain to determine from where or even how strong the wind will blow, but he can control his own sail. And that can make a great difference; the same wind may bring one sailor to a beautiful lagoon as it drags another, one who is inexperienced or careless or ignorant or wrong in his judgment, to his destruction. (Les Identités Meurtrières)



- They are more civilised than Sarvonians
Much as I believe in the superiority of the Krean (:P at Judith) “civilized” as I am sure you realize is a very subjective adjective. What is “civilized” or “advanced” depends on what your yardstick for civilization or advancement is. If your measure is prosperity, enlightenment, education or artistic achievement the Krean, who disappeared thousand of years ago, were more civilised than Sarvonians – and with that I mean the ‘current’ Sarvonians. My initial plan was to have the Krean as a sort of “Atlantis” civilization on a continent far far away.

If you take conquest, martial glory or even the strong, perseverant endurance of the poor Santharian farmer who does not have the luxury of having arcane power on his side to surmount whatever unpleasant surprise life might throw in his way, the Krean would not score very highly.

So whether they really are more “civilised” depends on the criteria (also most of the Krean related entries were written from a Krean-favourable perspective) - but still… everyone knows what you meant and just how true what you had in mind was, don’t we? ;)  

I guess it would be most diplomatic to say that they are charming in their eccentricity.






I am very impressed by how much you extracted from that rather disorderly entry!
:thumbup  



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Friadoc Sandydowns on 18 February 2006, 13:34:00
Whoah! That's alot to take in but I think I get it. In case you were wonderering were I got the uncommon fidelity it says in the krean entry under holidays and festivals, and I quote

Quote:
...the Lillivear commemorate King Kliám’s fidelity to his Queen


P:S thanx for the compliment

P:P:S: I'm changing my name to Deceipher Ziron as Friadoc Sandydowns isn't really a Nybelmar Developers name.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 18 February 2006, 13:42:00
See!



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 18 February 2006, 15:43:00
Hey, Decipher - which current tribe do you aim at? ;)
Decipher is not a bad name for someone in the service of our great mage CorenFrozenZephir! Maybe our dear Coren has finally found someone in you he can work with on his tribes (Smith has more the power and knowledge about the other stuff .)

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Smith in Exile on 19 February 2006, 02:30:00
lol, yeah I like that, power&knowledge :)

Basically Coren is responsible for the west part of the continent while I'm more of an "expert" in the east part. If you want to work on the west, then Coren is your man. I will be commenting mainly on things that need to fit with the eastern stories. If you want to work on the east, then I guess I'm your man. In any case, just tell us what's on your mind = open up a thread here about what you would want to do on Nybelmar.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 19 February 2006, 07:03:00
Right okay. Smith= East  Coren=West. Okay that seem simple enough.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 19 February 2006, 12:23:00
Tailia, do mean that Coren thinks I might be useful in working with his Nybelmarian tribes ( which I assume are in the west of the contienent) because I think that would be very interesting. The lack of a Nybelmarian magic system also intruiges me, but I think it would be wise to get started with something a little less complex.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Smith in Exile on 19 February 2006, 14:35:00
There is a current ban on any new magic systems, until they will manage to finish the Ximaxian system. The Nybelmarian magic is in plan, it will be different in appearance (schools, whatever), but still fitting within the same, hmmm..., let's say, Caelerethian "physics". If you read carefully though through the entries, you will see quite a lot of hints for how this system is supposed to differ from the Sarvonian one.

PS: also, within our own Nybelmarian frameworks, the magic system's priority has to leave room for other things: like the timeline and a complete foundation for all the tribes inhabiting the continent (meaning a place&tribe&religion entry for every one of them)



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 19 February 2006, 14:39:00
Starting SMALL is always recommended! ;)  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 19 February 2006, 16:13:00
Talia's just flattering me with all the superlative adjectives :o

I personally would love to cooperate with you on the western tribes



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 20 February 2006, 05:42:00
Okay that sounds cool.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 21 February 2006, 17:00:00
Just post here an IM me when you come up with something you want to work on ORRRRRRRRR..... Tell me which tribe you would like to focus the lenses of your creativity on first and then I'll surely come up with some chores for you! :lol  



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Smith in Exile on 21 February 2006, 17:56:00
Speaking of chores, Coren: you still need to come up with some stuff for the Nybelmar general timeline thread... :hammer  


Coren: Working on it! :devilish

Edited by: Coren FrozenZephyr at: 2/21/06 11:21


Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 22 February 2006, 14:15:00
Well....The Krean beliefs really interest me as well as their culture. I'm also quite interested in the orcs and the Aca Santerran but I'm a little confused about how the kingdoms are didvided up. For example I have no idea where the krean territory is on the map or were the cities of Zhun are.

I did have one idea concerning the nybelmar. A school,  a very big school. I didn't know what it would specify in but I thought it might teach History, Literature, Art and Music. I don't who would run this school or which race would have founded it but I would really like your cooperation if this is possible.

What do you think?



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 22 February 2006, 14:03:00
There is already one started.. by Viresse? ermm... the school of Ames?? Just look in the Nybelmar forum..down..

use the search function!

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

Edited by: Talia Sturmwind  at: 2/21/06 21:05


Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 22 February 2006, 15:09:00
thanks talia



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 22 February 2006, 15:17:00
Well thats an idea I should throw out of the window.

* Picks up extensive essay on imaginary school and throws it out of his window*

There.....

* Realises has just thrown essay that he has spent two weeks writing which is due tommorow and left the one or two sentences of ideas on his desk*:jawdrop :jawdrop :jawdrop

:lol  



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 22 February 2006, 14:33:00
Your confusion is very justified - aside from Talia and Smith I don't think anyone knows where the Krean territory was. Alright, I quit procrastinating and marked it all very crudely on the map (Artimidor will be posting it here. Thanks Arti!)

Edit Artimidor: Here's the map!

(click on image to enlarge)



We already have the School of Ames in the east, but that is only in recent history. I think your idea is very suited to the Krean culture, so no problem creating one in their peninsula as well. Afterall it is very likely that the Krean would have been the first Nybelmarian civilization to come up with the idea.

EDIT: Arghh Talia bet me posting while I was busy drawing with a mouse!

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 2/21/06 21:48


Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Smith in Exile on 22 February 2006, 20:24:00
Yeah, maybe that lost library with weird architecture that I was telling you about fits... :)  (see my last post in the Krath empire thread at the Places Forum). Who knows... maybe you two can come up even with some neat writing style :)

PS: in the meantime... Coren you still need to add some stuff in the Nybelmar general timeline. :evil  



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 24 February 2006, 14:03:00
So you think it would be better as a ruin that once was a school? or just a school with a really long history?



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Smith in Exile on 24 February 2006, 14:15:00
Well, yes, a ruin that once was a great library/school - as those folks are not really around anymore; Coren should give you more details about their history.



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 26 February 2006, 03:59:00
Do think I should start with that or make a beast or plant like is reccommended?



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Coren FrozenZephyr on 26 February 2006, 10:15:00
Let's start with something smaller just to see how you will do, is that alright? You can choose one of the places from the 'groundwork entries' here over a random plant. There are links to some useful entries under my second post there.


To get the general atmosphere of the Dragon's Back region as well as information on Katkara-Kechit-Ktsarmashik-Serekeye-Karakan you can take a look at this.



If none of the above is suitable for you, post at the bellringing forum (the thread for Nybelmar or Coren) and we can try to come up with something else. I would prefer if you start with something from the above list though - that's why it was created :)  



Title: Re: I need clarification....
Post by: Decipher Ziron on 26 February 2006, 14:56:00
I've started a beast, a snake. Here's a link