Santharian Development

Santharian Game Projects => Maps, Dialogues & Room Descriptions => Topic started by: Bard Judith on 31 October 2002, 08:55:00

Title: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: Bard Judith on 31 October 2002, 08:55:00
Here's the Carmalad map - the title is spelt wrong, Judy, but the map is fine as ever. Silfer, Akorn: Comments welcome!

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 11/2/02 8:50:25 am

Title: Re: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 04 November 2002, 16:45:00
marvelously done, dear bard... comemnts below

1) As the entry says the markets run in circles around the city, i would suggest puting the count's manor somewhere else(near the middle?) Right now it is hidden in the corner of the city.

2) Guild hall of the stormcloaks... who are the stormcloaks?

3)Also, i belive that some sort of barracks should be on the map... Carmalad has some sort of armed forc(police) i belive

4)The Alchemist you placed right together with the potion shop-i have named the potion shop keeper an alchemist, so i'd say she mkes up for the alchemist functuion...but that one isnt very sure.

5) I belive a city of such size as carmalad should have several exits/entrances, marked on the map

thats all that comes to my mind-other than this, the map is very nice


Title: Re: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: Bard Judith on 04 November 2002, 23:36:00
Thanks for your comments, Sifler!

I went through every entry (believe it or not) in the Compendium before making this map, so you'll really have to quote chapter and verse to convince me otherwise... :)   I've also travelled extensively in Asia, and some of their cities are the closest thing you will get to medieval in this day and age - in fact, some are STILL functioning in medieval conditions! - so I've drawn upon that experience to assist me in my urban designs for Santharia.  

I saw the markets described as lanes, which in my experience with many market lanes in many Asian cities (rolls eyes and tries not to remember the smell of those same market lanes...) is quite realistic and effective.  Lanes don't run in circles, and for the sake of a MUD map they physically cannot - Klinsor's rough octagon was tricky enough to lay out!  Thus I chose to make them crisscross the city, and chose names which would reflect not only the social districts of the city areas, but also the type of goods (well, which came first, the chicken or the egg?) that might be sold there.

Somewhere there was a reference to the Old City walls of Carmalad.   And since the city had a pretty warlike history, it's possible that its current form has been heavily influenced by defensive considerations - walls, gateposts, etc. It thus stands to reason that there aren't a multitude of possible exits/entrances.  See Xian (central China) for an excellent example of how defensive walls can function within a city.

In fact, I HAD intended to expand the city beyond those walls to the south a bit, to make it more realistic (see Chiang Mai, northern Thailand, for a good example of ancient city walls and non-functioning gates integrated into a 'modern' city)  and to increase the gameplay area - but it's a phenomenal task to design even as many squares as I have - and I haven't even started on the descriptions yet.  So, in all honesty, making one exit was just to make it easier on myself, and on the MUD play.... just how many different ways can a player come at Carmalad anyhow?  Since we don't have a Path Map of the continent yet (sorry, Nate, can't do everything at once!), I had to make an executive decision and nail it down to one main street and one huge main gate.

(heaves heavy sigh) But I can change that if you really have a problem with it - it just means a lot more work.  (checks to see if Sifler will either feel guilty or volunteer to write the extra descriptions.... )  :)

For your comment on the count's manor - well, yes, I could make it more central than it currently is.  Read my reasoning as it follows below and see if you understand its position in that context, OK?

"Since the town is next to the river, which has to be very close to sea level, I have designed the town to slope downwards from the forested hills in the southwest to the river delta in the northeast.  Logically then, the wharves and shipping and transport areas would also be in the north, northeast, and east.

The main gate of the town is to the south.  Nobility generally chooses to be close to the 'action' but also elevated both physically and economically.  Thus, the rich area of Carmalad is in the southwest and west, looking down over the market square in the centre of town (which I know exists from a previous entry). The middle/mercantile classes tend to congregate around market and central areas, and since most of the town is arranged around the seven main market streets, that means they occupy the central sprawl from northwest to southeast.   The less prosperous areas are then downhill closer to the docks and away from the main lanes of traffic."  I believe this makes sense economically and psychologically - and I've tried to site the main buildings within that context.

Also, it's close to one of the old gates (now blocked) that was in use at the time of Mero-somebody (looked it up in the Compendium) who was besieging Carmalad at one point.  The manor might well have been an important strategic location, no?

I'll gladly add in the barracks, which should probably be somewhere near the main gate and contain a well in the area.  Could you point me to any entry that would refer to the 'police force' you mentioned?

I thought I had put a potions shop AS WELL AS the alchemist, whom I threw in since I wanted a non-human presence represented. Sorry about that!   Gnomes aren't very well known yet but they are present in the area and have a monopoly on chemical items.  If you'd like to make your potions clerk an alchemist, he or she probably should be a Gnome.  Check the Compendium for further details on the Gnorians.  

Stormcloaks, finally, are a shipping guild based in Quios.  They make port in Carmalad, and since it's meant to be a major city, it's very likely that they have some sort of base of operations in the city - at the very least a place where they can put up any Quian travellers, store bales that aren't going on the market, and meet people to make negotiations.  A guild hall suited those requirements.

Thanks for taking the time to look at the map so closely, and for your comments.  Hope you've also had the time to read all of my verbose prolixities!  Appreciate any further comments or response -

Bard Judith

Title: Re: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: Tyrian Jadewalker on 05 November 2002, 00:34:00
i just have a couple of things to say..this is of course simply my opinion...

if it was a town with a big history of wars likely the count would not have had his manor house right by the walls...maybe it would have started there but would likely have been moved since it probly is a very expensive dwelling and would take a large amount of damage if it were near the walls...

secondly due to the war history they likely would have had some sort of secondary entrance...possibly two more so that they could exit the city without being seen if an army were approaching...having one exit when you are constantly at war is like blocking yourself into a corner...

that said...good explanations


Tyrian Jadewalker

Title: Re: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: Silfer Darkflare on 05 November 2002, 06:13:00
I completely agree with tyrian-catapults would make the counts manor history if it would be located at the wall. As you state that the rich area is to the southwest, i suggest moving the manor away form the wall, but keping it in that area.

However, about the several exits- there sure are- but they would be hidden i guess.... so on the map we would have only one of them.

My potion shopkeper is named an alchemist as class- because i dont know what else to anme her. however, a goblin alchemist is nice- i didnt think it was goblin. Soi agree there.

About the police, i quote the carmalad entry:

The governing body of Carmalad was originally reserved solely for the King or Queen, as a monarchy was the first system of ruling put into use. After the Caltharian Empire faltered and was erased, though, the Monarchs lost the majority of the governing power. The slack was greedily picked up by the Military. Now the two powers hold congress to decide the fates of the city, and all their followers. The laws are strictly enforced, with most penalties being monetary, although the gravest of infractions could result in death by decapitation, albeit very rare that this is the punishment. Many insiders, however, see a third party involved in much of the law passing and other government responsibilities. The Guild of Cloth Dyers is a very lucrative market, and many people have their lives staked in the trade routes and possible taxes. So they tend to bribe the Council, to try to sway their decisions and judgements. This is altogether not fool proof, but it has served them well, so far.

of this I see that the military has a power struggle with the count about who decides what. The military should reside somewhere, and since there has been no wars involving Carmalad since SW3, I would suggest, since the "laws are strictly enforced", that the military works as police.

Another thing about the barracks- As barracks are generally dirty, filthy and so on, it sohuld be placed somewhere not near people- at lest rich people. On the other hand, it sohuld be located so soliers can easily get patrolling the streets.

other than that, I agree on your comments, Judith

Title: Re: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: Bard Judith on 07 November 2002, 10:55:00
Thanks, gentlemen!

Will be getting to that soon....

Regards from busy bard

Title: Re: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels on 07 November 2002, 17:42:00
Hi Judith,

just one thing - I would like to have the Temple of Baveras more in the water, in fact surrounded by water.Would it be possible to place it one or better two squares to the north and maybe one to the east? Either a bridge or better a boat should be necessary to reach it. And if you could do the description of it quite late, I may have finished this part of the entry about Baveras - or I do it myself :)  

Title: Re: Carmalad Map and Description (to follow)
Post by: the Akorn on 20 November 2002, 06:50:00
Nice map.

"Self-proclaimed squirrel"

Edited by: the Akorn at: 11/19/02 12:51:08 pm