Santharian Development

Santharian World Development => Races, Tribes and Clans => Topic started by: John Silvercryst on 10 November 2001, 15:10:00



Title: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 10 November 2001, 15:10:00
I was just wondering, where are the Black Dwarves?  Art told me that there were some here, but I never found any, anywhere.  Do these guys still have to be invented/created? Just wondering.

Some people think of the glass half empty, some think of it half full, I think they're both wrong.  It's completely full.



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 10 November 2001, 15:15:00
They still need to be invented, yes. I said that there sure are dark dwarves somewhere, so you could actually play one, but we don't have any background on them - yet...



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 10 November 2001, 18:24:00
Can I do that? (I have some ideas!)

Some people think of the glass half empty, some think of it half full, I think they're both wrong.  It's completely full.



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 November 2001, 20:36:00
(Bard Judith, looking possessively around her and preparing to throw a histrionic tantrum)  Dwarves?  Did someone say dwarves?  They're MINE!  All MINE!

(two royal guards enter and stand threateningly near the doorway)

Um...do I *havta* share?  (pouts)

(Artimidor's face appears in a cloudy mist, beard floating around his wise visage)  YES, DEAR BARD, YOU DO.  NOW PLAY NICE AND HELP JOHN OUT, OR....  (makes vague motion towards the guards)

Oh, pitdamp and rockfalls!

(drags her feet sullenly towards her desk and pushes her lute aside)  Black dwarves, huh, the dark side of the family, we never talk about THEM, mutter grumble, well, what does he think he knows, grump grumph...

(looks at the giant stacks of projects, half-finished work, and scribbled notes that litter her desk top)  All right, so I could use a hand with the dwarves....but he'd better do his research first, so there!

(drops into curule chair and starts rummaging through parchments)  Now, where was that description of dwarven life and beliefs?  Oh, yeah, up on the site already...   that would be a good place to start... and that description of the cavern that Gean and Capher asked for... what else?  (catches the unblinking eye of one of the still motionless guards ) Well, I guess I could listen to what he's got to say...




.

Bard Judith

"If you will listen to this lay but a little while now,
I will tell it at once as in town I have heard it told,
as it is fixed and fettered
in story brave and bold,
thus linked and truly lettered,
as was loved in this land of old."

J.R.R.Tolkien, 'Sir Gawain and the Green Knight'



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 11 November 2001, 13:50:00
I'm sorry about that Bard Judith!!  I didn't mean to step on any toes!!!

Well here's my idea.  Black Dwarves have a lot in common with regular dwarves.  Except that there are less of them and they are SLIGHTLY more flexible (less stobborn) than regular dwarves.  I was thinking of having these dwarves as the best of what they spealise in (if you are trying to haggle with a black dwarf that speaclises in bartering, you are going to get the short end of the stick.)   They are also not afraid of water, use whatever magic they need to be the best, they don't mind other races, and you can tell what they do for a living by their eye color.  There was only about 1 black to every 40 regular because it is harder for them to  have kids. They dissapeared before/after the last major dwarf war.  Just picked up and left.  No reason whatsoever, one day they were there, the next, they were gone.  Noone knows where they went, but there have been scattered sightings of them around.  

This is just a rough sketch, I probably will need help with this, Bard Judith!!  This is where your vast wisdom of the dwarf world will help this just stranded, poor, and hollucinating person.

Some people think of the glass half empty, some think of it half full, I think they're both wrong.  It's completely full.

Edited by: John Silvercryst at: 11/10/01 9:15:30 pm


Title: The Great And Powerful Bard!!!
Post by: John Silvercryst on 11 November 2001, 15:13:00
I just went looking for some of your work in the Santharian Board, and frankly, I am in awe. Your work is awsome, and you have so much Dwarf stuff in your head, I wish I knew 1/100 of it so I could help you out. (kindof like an assistant). 8o  <---me HAHAHA!



Title: Morgerim - the Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 12 November 2001, 06:50:00
(bard finds she can't keep pouting under such unmitigated praise, and reluctantly smiles)

ummm... thanks... (kicks a pebble across the floor and tries to make eye contact again)

I guess Black Dwarves are not like Dark Elves, then - they aren't an 'evil' offshoot of the Thergerim?  I was a bit leery about that because of dwarves' established character and religion.  What would their reason for splitting off from the regular dwarves be?  Why did they vanish?  Do they prefer the surface, or like living completely underground (traditional, 'right-wing' kinda dwarves?)  Are there regular Thergerim who have Black relatives?  Do they trade with other dwarves or other races?  

Sorry to have so many questions - hope it will help you give a more complete picture of these guys.  By the way, their 'official name' would be Morgerim, "Darkfolk".  

Regards from the Bard...



Title: Re: Morgerim - the Black Dwarves
Post by: Thuja on 12 November 2001, 13:16:00
I agree with our Bard.  I like the idea of the dwarves being different and not necessarily evil, as a matter of fact, I am more for this idea because they are not evil.  Since they are different it could be a reason for them being known as black.  Sort of like but not necessarily like our own black sheep.

A question, could these black dwarves also sometimes be born to normal dwarf parents?  Something like this:

Drager and Megiid were happy.  After their third time trying they had finally been granted children by the gods.  They were even more blessed at having a son and daughter.  Each were content with the knowledge their line would carry on and they could pass on a part of learning and experience.  But there was a slight shadow to their happiness, their daughter had been born with ice-blue eyes.  This had never happened in their family and they did not know what this foretold.

Just threw this together quickly as an example and know it is not good.  It is just to illustrate my question somewhat.


If you think the sky's the limit, then you have no imagination.



Title: Re: Morgerim - the Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 12 November 2001, 21:34:00
Hey, I like it, Thuja!  I don't see why not - after all, especially if they 'have a hard time having kids' as John put it, their 'tribe' will slowly disappear -

I'd really actually like to keep these guys 'in the fold' even if they don't live together with 'regular' Thergerim.  Perhaps then the 'ice-eyed' babies could be sent to be fostered by or adopted by the Morgerim on a regular basis.  If there is a cordial but distant relationship between them, that would make sense.  Dwarves are, after all, VERY loyal to clan and family.  

What do you think, John?  Do give me a few more ideas....

Bard Judith



Title: Re: Morgerim - the Black Dwarves
Post by: Winlok on 13 November 2001, 09:15:00
Two things that you neglected to mention, and I feel will help you out immensely. This is for doing it together.

Do you both have icq?

Why not file transfer then?

If you both are on different time tables, and zones. One can send a txt file. And lets say the other one is off. They start to download it, and a dialogue box pops up, telling you there offline and do you want to send it anyways. Click yes. When they come on it will start transfering. I thought email was pretty fast, until I found this.  



Title: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 13 November 2001, 16:04:00
I was thinking that the reason for the name "black", was because of their skin color, ebony black.  The reason for their leaving I haven't figured out yet, but will take suggestions.  I was thinking of these people as kindof secretive about where they exactly live, so they have only a few people that they have contact with.  


Here's a list of what I thought of the eye colors to occupations:

Blue = Healer

Green = Warrior

Gray = Hunter

White = Mage

Red = Miner

Black = Blacksmith

Gold = Trading/Barterer

Brown = Farmers

Any other eye colors that I would be needing?  the shade Specifies what the Dwarf specilises in.

Edited by: John Silvercryst at: 11/13/01 9:51:21 pm


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 13 November 2001, 16:54:00
On another note, do you think we shuld work on the dwarvish history?

Some people think of the glass half empty, some think of it half full, I think they're both wrong.  It's completely full.



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 15 November 2001, 04:29:00
History?  (shudders dramatically)

Feel free to research that...some stuff has already been written.  Personally, I hate numbers and dates, so I leave that up to our Great Sage.  As long as what happens isn't 'out of character' for the Dwarven people, I don't much care.

For example - we have a creation myth and religion for the Dwarves already.  Plus there are some early history records (maybe Capher wrote that?? not sure...) on the site.


Some of my conceptions and opinions:

Dwarves don't go to war much (as a people, that is) but individuals (the daring ones that you'd find on the surface) are often involved in adventures, skirmishes, human battles, and so on.  Remember that dwarves are intensely loyal and familial - dwarf fighting dwarf would have to be a VERY serious matter.  Clans might have some surface rivalries, but they would be expressed in annual hunts, get-togethers, forging competitions, sports days, and so on.  The mining boundaries are very strictly set and codified by law, and dwarven leaders (both male and female) get together regularly to discuss any variations or expansions in any directions.  Also, dwarves hate travelling (generally speaking) and so tend to stay put except for the annual festivals.

Since history is mostly a record of war, movement, conquest and settlements, dwarven history would be pretty static.  (and a refreshing change from all that complicated human history!)  Certainly a simple timeline would be nice, whether to correlate with the other races, or to give the writers something to work with.  Feel free to start working on that if you like.  Just check what's up already first!


Regards from the Bard



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Capher on 15 November 2001, 10:46:00
ERR... Um... I may be in trouble here. Since I have a dwarf going to be "Chosen" and I have the a dwarven tribe being held as slaves by Ma'asherom and his slaves of orcs. In my story. I am asking permission from you Bard whether I can make up some names. I will be as true to your concept of the Dwarven society as I can, I promise. In fact if you want I can send you a copy of the chapter(s) which have the dwarfs in them so you can correct any errors I may have made. Or I could email you my concept of how I plan on using them and you can give me your ideas? Whatever you want. I do not want to step on toes.:)


With deepest regards,Capher



Title: History! NNNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Post by: John Silvercryst on 15 November 2001, 15:47:00
Me look up history?!?!?  What kind of hersey are you talking about?!??  Seriously, what you said dear Bard was exactly what I was thinking.  But I was just thinking if Dwarves were involved in any of the global wars.



Title: Morgerim...
Post by: John Silvercryst on 15 November 2001, 16:29:00
To answer some of your earlier questions (which I unexcusably forgot about) No.1  I'm thinking that as a group, they got sick of how muleheaded (no offense!) regular dwarves are.  No.2  They do live underground, only because it is easier to avoid curious eyes that way.  No.3  They are related to regular dwarves, but regular dwarves think of them "strange" and normally give a wink with this "strange".  No.4  They trade with Dwarves, elves, brownies (even though they think brownies are way too hyper), and humans.  They only trade with a few people of each race, and these people guard their wearabouts well.



Title: Re: Morgerim...
Post by: Greybark on 15 November 2001, 21:55:00
LOL
re: (even though they think brownies are way too hyper)

Looking forward to seeing how the Dark Dwarves develop. Looks interesting. Which places on the map do they live?



Title: Re: Morgerim...
Post by: Bard Judith on 16 November 2001, 03:11:00
Capher:  yes, of course, just please check the Thergerim dictionary for ideas and appropriate sound combinations.  For example, there is no F sound in Dwarven, so don't spell anything with that letter! Or Q, come to think of it...

Also - Dwarves don't like to fight, but they are a sturdy race equipped with picks and axes, and would defend their home caverns literally to the death - so how DID those orcs take an entire tribe prisoner?  

Brainstorming Suggestions:  perhaps during one of these annual festivals?  A traitor dwarf (very unusual concept, I know) who sells the time and place information to the orc leader (why?  would have to be plausible reason) Or... orc leader kidnaps a dwarven child, extracts info from unwitting kid..... and so on.  Then ambushes dwarves as they are travelling through tunnels or aboveground...

Anyhow, use what you like from those ideas, and I'm looking forward to the result!



Title: Re: Eye Colour
Post by: Bard Judith on 16 November 2001, 03:43:00
Dear John:  Sorry for taking so long to respond to your ideas.

First, I have to say that I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the concept of different eye colours denoting profession.

It's a fairly elaborate concept, and even for a larger race would still be rather artificial.  In a sci-fi universe, perhaps this would be workable, but in high fantasy, I'm not sure it is.  Also, the Black Dwarves are, by your own description, a minor offshoot (1 in 40) of a reclusive race.  Why give them such a distinctive and defining physical characteristic to sort them into occupations?

Thergerim already divide labour based on gender:  Males mine and forge, females grow crops, hunt, and provide food.  Both sexes serve as teachers, healers, and leaders.  Unlike many human societies, there is no implied value inequality in this labour division:  all work is seen as valuable and contributing to the overall wellbeing of the community.    Thus your divisions, while useful and a good elaboration on the Dwarven society, would need to be made by gender primarily.

I'm also unsure about the physical aspect of eyecolour - red and pink for example, are usually associated with albinoism - and while dwarves certainly have light-sensitive eyes and a high rod-cone proportion allowing them to see very fine contrasts between light and dark, I doubt there would be any albino dwarves.  

Have a look at the text below for further information:

"Eye colour is not a substance but an effect produced by reflection of light on different materials. Melanin accounts for the colour differences by determining the concentration, granule shape and deposti. Eye colour is determined by the melanin or lack of melanin in the front or back of the iris.

"Blue eyes result from an absence of pigment in front of the iris and brownish melanin scattered in the back of the iris; the optical effect of blue occurs through reflection and dispersion of light rays.

"Green eyes result from a dilute brown or yellow pigment in front of the iris and brownish melanin scattered in back; yello pigment is superimposed on a "blue" background, producing a green effect. The shade of green depends on the amount and kind of melanin laid down in front.

"Hazel eyes result from the addition of a little more pigment in front and rear of the iris, creating a grayish yellow, or yellow-flecked-with-green effect.

"Copper, gold or orange eyes occur when the front of the iris is filled with pigment; no reflection can be seen as the iris is partialy or completely opaque.

"White spotting and pointed genes produce a blue effect; the mink gene prevents full pigmentation and scatters granules, producing a blue-green effect; the sepia gene prevents full pigmentation, resulting in a gold effect.

Very interesting, eh?  If you still would like to distinguish the Dark Dwarves in some way, why not try just one eye colour - for example Thuja's offering of the 'ice-eyed' babies.  Since 'normal ' Theregerim are black/bronze/gold irised for the most part, but all babies begin with blue eyes, it would be an effective contrast.  As the baby grew older it would begin to be obvious that he/she was going to keep the blue eye colour, and thus was actually a Dark Dwarf.  By this time the child would probably be weaned, and could be sent for fostering with the nearest Dark Dwarf Clan.  This could also lead to some interesting customs, such as not naming a new baby until it was certain that the child was 'Thergerim' and not "Morgerim" - and then holding a festday to  give the child its new dwarf name - while the dark dwarves, of course, would have their celebration when a new child arrived.  Workable?  Can you live with any of those concepts?

At any rate, I hope my opinion has been clear, coherent, and consistent, and that it has not offended you.  I know you have put a lot of work into these ideas, and if you would like to defend them, please give me your further feedback in this thread.  

Sincerely,   Bard Judith





.

Bard Judith

"If you will listen to this lay but a little while now,
I will tell it at once as in town I have heard it told,
as it is fixed and fettered
in story brave and bold,
thus linked and truly lettered,
as was loved in this land of old."

J.R.R.Tolkien, 'Sir Gawain and the Green Knight'



Title: Oops...
Post by: Bard Judith on 16 November 2001, 03:52:00
Everyone ignore this post.

It's only here because I want to get to Dwarven Miner as soon as possible!

(um...really it's cause I don't know how to delete a post.  Sowwwy!)

Edited by: Bard Judith at: 11/15/01 9:54:51 am


Title: Re: Oops...
Post by: Capher on 16 November 2001, 10:42:00
Thanks Bard for your advise and encouragement. The orcs found them through the use of Ma'asherom's magic by the way in the story and he uses the orcs to keep them mining away.

On another thought though. I want to be able to get somesort of messsage from these slaved dwarfs to their free cousins. The typical way would be to have a dwarf escape, but I was wondering if there may be a like underground message system that the dwarves use?

Anyway it is just an Idea. I will probably use the escaped dwarf idea. Unless... Bard you come up with something really neat.;)  

With deepest regards,Capher



Title: Eye color...
Post by: John Silvercryst on 16 November 2001, 12:54:00
I was thinking that Black Dwarves were more flexible with their assigning jobs by gender.  If a male wanted to farm, then they let him.  If a women wanted to weild a warhammer, then they let her.  Though these are uncommon, it can still happen.  If you want, we can chuck the whole eye color thing out the window and leave their eye color at green. As to where they live, they live in small groups (25 to 50 Dwarves) throughout all the mountain ranges, but they hide their entrances better than regular dwarves.  

(P.S. Tell me when you think I have enough about about these guys. Please ask of any questions that you have, because I'm not good at details.)

Edited by: John Silvercryst at: 11/16/01 9:12:22 pm


Title: Dwarf Message Systems
Post by: Bard Judith on 18 November 2001, 03:56:00
John:  Yeah, that might be a good distinction... so they would actually be more 'liberal' in some ways than 'traditional' Thergerim.  "They allow men to prepare food...hmmph, sacrilegious!"  (Urtengor, or as they say, TollBarol, is the only 'male' in history who would be allowed to cook, being as he is the God of both Forging and Cooking....grin)

As for eye colour, green is fine, though we lose the story-telling potential and drama of the eye-colour change (somewhere in the depths of my last post, so I won't defend it again).

I like that they are more reclusive.  As for communication between them...well, Capher mentioned that he needed some info there, too, so here goes.

How about a type of sound pulse/vibration drum - a kind of Morse code that travels through veins of certain types of rock?  "Senders" as the drummers could be called, spend time in front of special stalagmites with silver hammers, tapping out their messages from cavern to cavern.  They receive a message and pass it along if it needs to go further.  Messages would begin with the intended recipient cavern's name, or a "General" heading if every dwarf needs to know.  The messages are decoded, written down in aleterons (dwarf runes) and then read aloud at the main meal or the Restday meeting.  Any dwarf can send a personal message if the lines are free, at no cost.  The Senders, like every one else in the community, put their work into a communal pool and receive food, shelter, clothing, etc. back.

Alternatively;  dwarves have managed to domesticate most types of rock-lizard (as food, rarely as pets) and bats.  Bats could be used as a 'distrans' system (thank Frank Herbert for this idea!).  Dwarves being highly sensitive to vibrations to begin with, it might be possible that every once in a while a dwarf child is born who is extrasensitive and can 'hear' bat radar pulses.  That child is placed immediately into training with the current SingSpeaker and will spend his/her entire life in the Morjualoon (Bat Mews - a special aerie for the trained bats).  

Using low-level magic, patience, positive reinforcement, and some carefully guarded technology of Brownie manufacture (talk to you about this later, Greybark!  I'm SURE Brownies will have invented a way to speak to bats, if you haven't already!)  the Singspeakers train their Morjualerons to 'memorize' and 'replay' short sequences of pulses (the same as the Drum Code above, I expect)  The bats are then released at sunset to flutter to other caverns and pulse their messages to the Singspeakers there - the news is received, decoded, and transcribed for reading to the cavern later.


Work for you guys?  Let's have some feedback (and of course, compliments will always be gratefully received!)

Bard Judith



Title: Re: Dwarf Message Systems
Post by: John Silvercryst on 18 November 2001, 14:03:00
Wow, just wow.  I couldn't come up with somthing like that in a lifetime.  (Walks away muttering under his breath, Wow.)

"He's got big balls, she's got big balls, but we've got the biggest, balls of them all!"  AC/DC,  Big Balls



Title: Re: Dwarf Message Systems
Post by: Capher on 18 November 2001, 14:28:00
I like the bat idea and the sender idea. Problem is:)  Which one to choose;)  I think both. depending upon where and how deep the messages are coming from.

With deepest regards,Capher



Title: Re: Dwarf Message Systems
Post by: Bard Judith on 19 November 2001, 02:29:00
(bows deeply) Glad to have been of service.  By all means use both.  They are appropriate for different kinds of messages - obviously the drum code could be 'intercepted' or read, if another race knew the code, while the bats are more secret but less direct (takes longer).

Regards from the Bard

(anything you want to know about the Dwarves is either right here in my head, or it will be within minutes of your question!)



Title: Morgerim
Post by: John Silvercryst on 27 November 2001, 12:04:00
The Morgerim are what you would call a sub-species of the Thergerim (Dwarves).  They look like normal ThergerimErons except for a few siginifcant diffrences.  Their skin is ebony black, their hair is a pure white color, and their eyes can be any color from a light blue to a dark green.  Other than that, they are the average height, weight, and bone structure as regular Dwarves.  There are some major diffrences in between these races also.  

One of them is their skill level.  Their work is very sought after by other races because they are the best at what their specific jobs are.  Smiths of this race guarantee that all their weapons will never break, and so far, none has.  When the hunters go out to catch food, they have yet to not come back with some meat.  This rule applies to all of the jobs, but a Morgerim can't cross over to other jobs very well.  For example, most smiths of this race are         very  bad at haggling about their prices.  And most farmers can't smith very well, but they can make         very crude farm tools.

Another diffrence is the rarity of indivuals of this race. the Morgerim have a ratio to the Thergerim of 1:25.  This is directly affected by the fertility of the male.  With Morgerim males, about 50% of the sperm are infertile.  Also, they are a bit more sexually active than ThergerimErons.  Their ratio for male/female is 1:2, more like the other races(?).  

Their religion is very similar to the ThergerimErons belief except for one story.  This story goes roughly like this:   The Un'SthommErons created the ThergerimErons out of granite to help them become strong and dependent.  when [insert the name of the Un'SthommErons that this concept would match here] saw how inflexible they were, and didn't want to destroy somthing that him and his brothers already created.  So [he] desided to make another people(?) out of obsidian so that they can be more flexible and open to ideas.  He created the MorgerimErons[is that how you would say/spell the plural form?], but saw after he created them that they have the  disadvantage of being very select in their abilities. (Like an obsidian tool.)


Another major diffrence is their atitudes in general.  Unlike ThergerimErons, the Morgerim are a lot more flexible with their job assignment than other ThergerimErons.  Almost all jobs are shared, from cooking (Which is a big taboo for males in other dwarves lives) to senders to teachers. They also have a class of warriors because none of the other classes are very good at handling weapons, so they need this class in order to defend their homes and lands.

They also concern themselves with what is going on "topside" more then the Thergerim does, because they have more land up there.  Also, they dislike having Orks, Ogres, Goblins, etc. in/on their mountain(s), so they go hunting these regularly.  

The MorgerimErons have topside farms in secluded valleys that the only entrance is through          they're tunnels or through the skies, and of anything tries to fly into their valleys withought permission, they have about 5-10 (depending on the size of the valley) crack shot crossbowman surrounding the perimeter of each valley.  

The MorgerimErons trade with only select merchants that they know won't give they're entrances away because they want their homes to be secure from attacks and unwanted guests.  They're anger is vey meurcuridal [meurcury like?] which can be a hindrance if you happen to stumble upon one of they're entrances to their homes.  

The MorgerimErons live in communities ranging from 10 people to (Mining) to 100 (largest city) throughout the Northern Sarvonian mountains.  The reason for these small groups is because of two reasons:  So that they don't put a drain on the local resources and so that they don't attract attention with sounds, smoke and light.

(More later! )

Edited by: John Silvercryst at: 12/14/01 5:14:13 pm


Title: Need. feedback. now.....
Post by: John Silvercryst on 29 November 2001, 11:14:00
FEEDBACK? PLEASE? (on knees begging patheticaly) Please, I need some feed back about these guys otherwise I will be sent back to my cement room in my "special" jacket!



Title: Re: Need. feedback. now.....
Post by: Bard Judith on 29 November 2001, 22:02:00
(meets the puppy eyes with dispassionate gaze...)

Hmmm.....I suppose I COULD take the time to look this over...

(holds up the parchment by one corner, sweeps a look across it...)

Well, the ideas are all sound in concept - you need to detail a bit more exactly HOW they are different, such as the religion and so on.  Basically the Morgerim will be considered a different TRIBE, not a different RACE.  Make sense?  Regular dwarves will be a bit resentful of their reputed abilities, and scorn their 'loose' and 'liberal' ways with job assignments, but then again, Thergerim are traditionalists!

(softening a bit as the puppy eyes begin to sink in)

I will be sending Art a massive Dwarven Compendium entry in the next week or so.  I'll also email it to you so that you can get the 'final word' on dwarven culture (grin) before then and make sure your guys fit into it - or tell me what I need to adapt.  

I think the words you wanted were 'more sexually active' and 'less fertile'.  But I can edit the post later if you like so that the style matches??

(smiles and hands back the parchment)

Regards from the Bard



Title: THANK YOU!
Post by: John Silvercryst on 30 November 2001, 11:49:00
Thanks for giving me some feedback!  Can these guys be just another tribe when they're biologically diffrent? (I'm assuming that ThergerimErons are not black of skin and white of hair.)  I'm also just picing it together because the computer that I'm using decides not to let me just type for a while because it says that it's an inactive connection.

Edited by: John Silvercryst at: 11/29/01 8:38:43 pm


Title: NP...
Post by: Bard Judith on 05 December 2001, 08:39:00
Of course.... I might point out that although HUMANS come in every possible shape, size, and a variety of colours, it does NOT make them a different 'race' - in the sense that we use race in Santharia...

They are still Dwarves, not halflings, Gnomes, Kobalds, Mullogs, or any other species/race - so there is no difficulty with that.  It does simplify your work as you can simply 'add on' the distinctions rather than create ALL of the vast amount of race-work and background from scratch.  

Regards from the Bard



Title: help!
Post by: John Silvercryst on 09 December 2001, 15:26:00
I Know I'm missing somthing, but what am I missing!  I just can't think of it right now, so can someone help me with this?



Title: Re: help!
Post by: Bard Judith on 10 December 2001, 03:21:00
(frowns) um...perhaps a Zanax?  (grins at John)

Cool it, O wild buccanneer, you don't have to worry because anything you are 'missing', i.e. 'don't detail', will be filled in by 'regular' Thergerim society, right?  Whatever you choose to focus on to detail and differentiate will be the end word in Morgerim (by the way, although dwarves invariably use the plural 'erons' ending for races and tribes and so on, humans often leave it off, especially when writing!)  :)

I am working on the  Un'Sthommerons even as we speak (in a manner of speaking...er...writing....typing...whatever!) so with your permission I'll use that legend you came up with to add texture to one of them. Since we have no info for any but the first, Aephesvil, we can pick whom we want to make what.

How about Quontvil - who is actually spelt Kwontvil, as dwarven runes don't have the letter Q - as the 'deity' for the Morgerim?  Then I will use the word 'kwont' to mean 'obsidian' - I need to come up with more rock names anyhow, so that would mesh really well with your story.  

Works for you?

Regards from the Bard



Title: I Love you, Bard!!!!!
Post by: John Silvercryst on 11 December 2001, 15:17:00
You saved me from going insane and ending up in the basement of a "Home" with my "special" jacket!!!!   THat sounds fine to me.  Thanks again! :)  



Title: Re: help!
Post by: John Silvercryst on 15 December 2001, 11:21:00
here is the finished product, hope you like it.

The Morgerim are  group  of the Thergerim (Dwarves).  They look like normal ThergerimErons except for a few siginifcant diffrences.  Their skin is ebony black, their hair is a pure white color, and their eyes are commonly blue, but sometimes they have green eyes.  Other than that, they are the average height, weight, and bone structure as regular Dwarves.  There are some major diffrences in between these races also.  

One of them is their skill level.  Their work is very sought after by other races because they are the best at what their specific jobs are.  Smiths of this race guarantee that all their weapons will never break, and so far, none has.  When the hunters go out to catch food, they have yet to not come back with some meat.  This rule applies to all of the jobs, but a Morgerim can't cross over to other jobs very well.  For example, most smiths of this race are           very  bad at haggling about their prices.  And most farmers can't smith very well, but they can make           very crude farm tools.

Another diffrence is the rarity of indivuals of this race. the Morgerim have a ratio to the Thergerim of 1:25.  This is directly affected by the fertility of the male.  With Morgerim males, about 50% of the sperm are infertile.  Also, they are a bit more sexually active than ThergerimErons.  Their ratio for male/female is 1:2, more like the other races(?).  

Their religion is very similar to the Thergerim belief except for one story.  This story goes roughly like this:   The Un'SthommErons created the Thergerim out of granite to help them become strong and dependent.  When Kwontvil saw how inflexible they were, and didn't want to destroy somthing that him and his brothers already created.  So he desided to make another people group out of obsidian so that they can be more flexible and open to ideas.  He created the Morgerim, but saw after he created them that they have the  disadvantage of being very select in their abilities. (Like a kwont tool.)


Another major diffrence is their atitudes in general.  Unlike ThergerimErons, the Morgerim are a lot more flexible with their job assignment than other Thergerim.  Almost all jobs are shared, from cooking (Which is a big taboo for males in other dwarves lives) to senders to teachers. They also have a class of warriors because none of the other classes are very good at handling weapons, so they need this class in order to defend their homes and lands.

They also concern themselves with what is going on "topside" more then the Thergerim does, because they have more land up there.  Also, they dislike having Orks, Ogres, Goblins, etc. in/on their mountain(s), so they go hunting these regularly.  

The Morgerim have topside farms in secluded valleys that the only entrance is through            they're tunnels or through the skies, and of anything tries to fly into their valleys withought permission, they have about 5-10 (depending on the size of the valley) crack shot crossbowman surrounding the perimeter of each valley.  

The Morgerim trade with only select merchants that they know won't give they're entrances away because they want their homes to be secure from attacks and unwanted guests.  They're anger is vey mercurial which can be a hindrance if you happen to stumble upon one of they're entrances to their homes.  

The Morgerim live in communities ranging from 10 people to (Mining) to 100 (largest city) throughout the Northern Sarvonian mountains.  The reason for these small groups is because of two reasons:  So that they don't put a drain on the local resources and so that they don't attract attention.

You must go down before you go out.

Edited by: John Silvercryst at: 12/20/01 7:07:39 pm


Title: Re: help!
Post by: Capher on 15 December 2001, 11:55:00
I would suggest John that you follow the race/tribal entry form after you have everything final. That is the way Art would like it. The revised version is in this thread.

Art I would also suggest that if you approve of the entry form that you make it a sticky post. So anyone who wants or is doing a tribe or race can find the form easily and follow it.

Wisdom is given to those whom it knows.Capher



Title: Re: help!
Post by: Bard Judith on 17 December 2001, 20:40:00
": So that they don't put a drain on the local resources and so that they don't attract attention with sounds, smoke and light. "

I designed an elaborate chimney system for the Thergerim - tunnels filled with a special dried moss - which filters the smoke as it rises to the surface.

Since your Morgerim also live below ground, and guard their entrances even more assiduously than the Thergerim clans, you shouldn't have to worry about attracting attention with sound and light.  Dwarves live in a low-noise environment anyhow, except for the mining, but that takes place deep down below the surface (doh!)

Apart from that minor nitpick, and how to spell the work "mercurial" ("their temperament is mercurial"), I'm happy with the post.  Great work, John!



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 18 December 2001, 14:46:00
how would I convert this into the guidelines?  Will I have to fill all of the gaps in here with normal Thergerim actions/uses/etc.? :   Thanks in advance.

You must go down before you go out.



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 20 December 2001, 10:06:00
No no no....worry not....

Your entry will be added on to the bottom of the Clan List (see the appropriate thread in this forum ;] ) as if the Morgerim were another clan, which, in effect, they are - just a bit MORE different!    And of course, whenever they are mentioned in any other entry, Arti will put a hyperlink around the name, so that clicking on the word will take the reader directly to the info on them.  There you go, no problem!


I'd say your work is done, unless you want to add any other DISTINGUISHING details..... but it looks good to me!    I'll edit it and then move it along to Art, if that's ok with you, John.

Regards from the Bard...



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Greybark on 21 December 2001, 04:14:00
"Using low-level magic, patience, positive reinforcement, and some carefully guarded technology of Brownie manufacture (talk to you about this later, Greybark! I'm SURE Brownies will have invented a way to speak to bats, if you haven't already!)"

Can be done, a few Brownies could have learned....and a gagdet like this would be right up the Vale Brownie's alley.....the only thing is...how do we use medieval technology to make a glorified tape recorder?  



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 December 2001, 11:03:00
(grin) the bat is the 'recording' part....kind of a biological synthesis.  I had in mind a stretched membrane at the heart of a system of funnels, tubes, and sensitively balanced balls and wires.  Since dwarves do have writing, AND amazing hearing, it's not beyond the bounds of probability that they could figure out a way to represent sound visually - like a sound graph, I mean.  A pattern of high, medium and low tones could be used to ring the changes on a Morse-code-like system of words, and then a simple message 'imprinted' on the bat's memory.  I think magic might also be involved here, but don't ask how just yet!  

Will give more details later....in detail!



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 21 December 2001, 13:06:00
thank you for all of the help, Bard Judith!  This is, I think, done.  If their is anything that you want to see in this?

You must go down before you go out.



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 21 December 2001, 20:08:00
Looks great, John!

I'll take it and HTML it, then post it to Art for inclusion on the site next update.

Regards from the Bard.



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Greybark on 22 December 2001, 00:41:00
Judith
Sounds like you "get" Vale technology. Sounds great! I like the picture you're drawing with words....
Doesn't sound like it would need magic.....
but if you want to use lifemagic in it, there is a way to "tie off" a living plant or a living piece of wood so that its life essence is in a feedback loop and sustains itself indefinitely, while also having a minute reserve available to be applied consistantly to something....
utilize if you wish.....



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: John Silvercryst on 04 January 2002, 14:10:00
What does "Stoneflesh will cut flesh of our stone," mean, exactly?

You must go down before you go out.



Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 16 June 2009, 23:32:08
Serious thread necromancy - sorry people but I needed to see if there was anything usable and didn't want to have to navigate back to page 17 of the Races and Tribes Forum to find this post again!

Possible influence on the undeveloped Morgerim if there are any ideas that can still be gleaned....


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 12 April 2010, 15:33:03
Thanks to Valan's gravedigging and Tharoc's poxy scriving, the Morgerim/Black Dwarves are going to get let out of the closet - at least, we'll give it another try....


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 12 April 2010, 15:33:35
Currently I have Influenza B, so feel rather orcpoxed myself.   We shall see how events develop.


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Artimidor Federkiel on 12 April 2010, 15:37:51
Get well soon, Judy!


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 12 April 2010, 15:39:40
Yes, get well Judith. :hug:


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Deklitch Hardin on 12 April 2010, 15:41:36
Yeah, get well soon Judith!


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 13 April 2010, 11:21:38
1st Origins:

If we were to keep the Dark Dwarves in Caaehl'heroth, they'd no doubt live under the Caaehl Mountains. This region is undeveloped at the moment, so fitting them there is easy. And, it would explain where they came from when they were made to help build Osthemangar. The theory could be that the Morgerim and the orcs were the two main tribes in Caaehl'heroth in ancient times. Perhaps they were at war, or perhaps they had a tense co-existence.

But, along came the dark elves from ruined F'v'cl'r. These elves were advanced, powerful and quickly enslaved the more primitive orcs and dwarves as laborers. However, the War of the Chosen, Battle of Osthemangar, the Mists and SWIII eventually drove the dark elves in the region to extinction and a good number of Morgerim. The orcs, on the other hand, survived and thrived.

2nd Origins:

Or...the Morgerim are a tribe split from the Susilgrim or Kurakim due to disease? Curse? War? and migrated to the Gathorn Mountains. Maybe they took up trade with the Remusians and/or Antislar. They could have sided with the orcs in the orcen wars against the humans (evil dwarves! You know you want them!) Ice Dwarves! Maybe they made friends with the mythical icicle monsters and learned to communicate with them.


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 13 April 2010, 12:19:07
Can we work the Orcpox angle as the disease in Option #2?  They were ravaged by disease and moved to the Gathorn Mountains(driven or maybe even self sacrificed themselves for the betterment of the tribe) and are called Black Dwarves because of how they look, not necessarily evil.  Though, evil dwarves would be cool somewhere!

I like the monstercicle connection.  Perhaps we can have the dwarves release the icicles from an underground imprisonment either on purpose or accidental, whether real or in myth.  If they are in the Gathorns, I wouldn't want them evil evil... just misunderstood, perhaps.  I would lioke to tie them in with Kor'och when he went into the mountains for years on his own, as well as maybe helping with the cave temples that were in vogue for a number of years back then.  Also, perhaps it was the dwarves that helped Kor'och find Shangri-la (yes, I know I really need to come up with a name for this :P).

As far as SW III, maybe have them be nuetral.  And the Remusians not forgiving them for not helping against the orcs.

Maybe they had something to do with Ombaxxis, the lost Remusian city.  Though, might have to see what Shabby has been planning.  He had made a tentative claim on Ombaxxis awhile back.  Hmmm... maynbe helping with building it, or maybe having something to do with its abandonment.

So much potential. :)


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Bard Judith on 13 April 2010, 12:29:14
No evil Thergerim!    But I like both of Azhira's suggestions....   and I definitely want to use orcpox as the historical 'origin' for the Mor-dwarves.   

You guys write the history (my weak point) and I will happily do the rest of the entry for their culture.


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Altario Shialt-eck-Gorrin on 13 April 2010, 12:31:49
Everyone quick!  Get out your history books and start writing.  We got a chance here for a Bard Judith original.  Right up here in our neck of the woods!  :heart:


Title: Re: Black Dwarves
Post by: Azhira Styralias on 14 April 2010, 20:55:02
I'm game if you all are. I've written a bit of history stuff in my day.  ;)