I plan for players to eat in Sorren 3d.  I didn't want the names exclusively for the 3d game though.  I have added a region vault to the simulation/strategy game.  Also I created an auction system to auction items.  No auction is complete without an Item shop to purchase the items from in the first place.

And by the way I'm working on coding the new stuff to work with both games.  Putting priority on the shared components required for the 3d game.

This part is a piece of cake.  3d models can be scaled using a function called setscale(x,y,z)
They can be made thinner, fatter, or taller.

After we get a nice chunk of land made for a zone in the wilderness (what i'm calling everything not in a town or dungeon).

I will test it at different character sizes and see what works well.

we can use a greyscale image that is 2000x2000 or 100x100 one will load faster the other have more detail.

How big we make the character will be how detailed the landscap will be able to be.

So a 2000x2000 might be a 30 second walk or a 2 hour one.  I'm just going to have to test those things out and see what works best.

I've been testing on a voodoo 3 16mb, nvidia 16mb (something), and an ati all in wonder 32 mb.

I know all these cards will be out of date in a couple years, but what runs descent on them now should run excellent in 2 years.

We will also be able to place two zone mapes side by side using photoshop if needed.  So multiple people can make pieces of a zone.

Another note...  Zone maps will overlap  Because vision doesn't end at the end of a particular zone.  Before the new zone is loaded (I plan on a limited bandwidth background download)  The player will still need to be able to see what's ahead, over the next hill etc.

A couple thoughts of where we start.

Have you guys ever played populous?  I'm meaning like the older snes version even.

In case you havn't i'll explain it briefly.  You are a god (the original).  In the newer one you are a shaman who becomes a god when you win.

Anyway the original more then the later version gives you the ability to raise and lower land as you desire. (amongst other things we won't need).

Textures are automatically generated to fit in with the elevations in the new versions.

I guess this would be the sort of a think i'm looking to make for a developer tool near the start.

Briefly how it is likely to work behind the scenes...
I have a database table with x,y,z coordinates which specify the height of the land at that location.  The tool will look at a piece of modifications needed to it.  And adjust all points surrounding it accordingly so it won't look jagged.

Now here comes the fun part...  I'm going to make a seperate tool that will take these database values and convert them into a greyscale bitmap(not really a bitmap) since storing red, green, and blue values would be needless with greyscale.

Anyway the resulting image would use the greyscale value to indicate the height of that point.  And each pixel X and Y would indicate the height of it.  The terrain builder will be our first step.  And naturally it will be from a 3rd person perspective over the 3d landscape.

I will also have a walkthrough application made that will allow you to walk around as a player.  (no game functions just walk around) single player in this little land.

By the way Art thanks for keeping everything moving forward.  I'm finding out how big of a project this item shop is turning out to be.

I appreciate your help and those are excellent ideas.  And notes.  I want to make sure that any new beasts we add for this region are recorded in the Bestiary etc.

Here is my icq so we can discuss these things in more detail and make sure everything gets reviewed by Art and added to Santharia.  ICQ 20748554.

Again I appreciate your help.

What creatures do you think should be in the Uderza area?

What style of buildings?  Know anyone that might be able to do a couple concept sketches so we can see what we like?

What sort of clothing might be expected in that area?  Sketches?

By the way if anyone asks to do art and wonders if they are good enough to do certain stuff these are some items that might be interesting.

Are the people nomads?  They Armed?  If walking down the street what conversations would you hear about the most?  

"The weather seems a bit dry today, just like the last 63 years..."
"How am I supposed to get these horse shoes to work.  They look like they were made for a miniature..."
"What do you mean all sales are final, Mr Smithin Pyro you know I can't read."

Anyway those are a few questions.  And please anyone feel free to give their input on how the citizens might behave etc.  If you don't know where Uderza is check out the map and look at the southern part in the desert.

About forum access.

I had set the forums up so that people could post as guests.  I created a regionID number of 0 for the quest login.  A couple players decided it would be fun to use profanity as a guest then noone would know who it was.  Well needless to say when their messages got deleted it added the no post restriction to the guest login.

To be able to post before the timout expires on the guest account simply create a region and log in.  It doesn't matter if you build your region or not.  But the creating of a login allows me to know who it is posting so the forums can be monitored by the admins.

Sorry about the inconvenience.  The way forum post restrictions work is like this...

1 deleted post 1 day of not being able to post.
2 deleted posts 2 days of not being able to post.
3 deleted posts 3 days of not being able to post.

So the time increases.  Again sorry about the inconvenience.

you will probably continue to recieve a good number of signups and e-mails per day.  Sorren has about 2,000 new visitors every day. 200 new players per day.  and about 100-150 players stop playing.  Usually when i've added somethign that they don't like but 80%+ of the others wanted.  It averages out to 100-150 per day.

So far I have only advertised santharia inside of Sorren.  I'm not limited to this.  Art it would be a good idea to sign up for a banner exchange account at www.linkexchange.com.  Then I can place the add that they give you inside sorren to generate traffic.  The reason I would choose that link exchange is because they provide nice targeting function so you can target the impressions where you are most likely to find the sort of help you need.  For example targeting graphic art sites when you need artists etc.  Please make the password a lower security one that you can share with me.  Then just let me know once it's set up and i'll start generating you some impressions.

I'm looking for more of resource shop names.  Just figured since I was adding multiple trade markets into sorren anyway I would use city names and stuff to go along with santharia.

that would be my guess.

What would be about 5 good names for trade shops.  and what towns would they be located in.

for example Bardavos supplies might be a name.

I need to read a bit more on the Gods before I can come up with how it can tie in.  Art has a good knowledge of Santharia so he probably has the best idea of their place in history.

I see there is always a problem though if we try to play the game as stuff is being built all in the same time period.

Functionality wise the world will probably have some sort of magic barrier at the edge of the in production zone.  that daonami can't pass.  Finished levels would have a barrier that only daonami (builders) can pass.  Daonami can't effect things in the finished zone directly.  Only inform the Dagada about it.  I'm hoping to have most bugs worked out of zones before they are played.  Issues we might miss for example is a place players can get trapped.  Maybe stairs that allow a player to fall under them when they walk backwards up them or something like that.  These issues need to have a system of getting fixed and players getting helped that doesn't take up the time of the dagada (senior development managers) unless it's necessary.

How far I see the two coming together.

Well most of our limits I see will be the ability of the programmers, graphic artists, and builders.  I would like to see all the animals, maps, and languages written in.  Honestly I don't think this will happen in the first attempt.  One of those reasons is because technology changes so fast.  By the time we get so far along there will be a new and better way to do it.

But i'm looking foreward to working with a group of people who will all gain in experience and knowledge along the way.  The game will not end up being the way I see it now.  I have programmed long enough to know that fact.

I am relatively new to directX programming but I have successfully managed to create some 3d objects in code.  And pull in a 3d object that my wife made with 3d studio max.  Both of the above tests were done with javascript not java and both were using 3d acceleration, software rendering if no 3d card existed.  I am of the opinion that in 2 years almost everyone will have a 3d accelerator card and cable or better internet connections.

My icq is 20748554 if you wish to discuss ideas mentioned in this thread.

Thanks I appreciate it.  I've worked hard at it and I appreciate the compliments.  There are still some issues that will be resolved in the game.

I remember when I was younger playing a mud called mediavia.  I so much wanted to code the mobs in a zone.  I didn't care about the whole project. Or even making the entire town.  But to make it so that a child comes up to you and begs money from you.  Then after you give him one he treats you differently.  When you visit a zone at certain times mobs are doing different stuff.  Maybe as it's getting dark citizens wander home.  If a kid doesn't make it becuase a human attacked him the villagers can get together and devise a plan for getting vengence.

Anyway, I hope it will be as fun to other world builders as it would have been if I had the chance back then.