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46  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: Koldar speaking ;) on: 01 July 2001, 13:00:00
There has to be a balance between excitement, graphics, sound, plot, strategy, interface, learning curve, and role-playing.

A game isn't likely to do as well if it has a learning curve that requires people to study for weeks before playing or if it's too complex to navigate.

Strict in game rules mess things up.  Targeting your audience helps.  Current Sorren players tend to be bright, and strategic.  Many are creative.  Not as many have that same high level of role-playing skills.  I'm not creating the 3d game for them.  The games will be working together.  But appeal to different audiences.

Just like another game might be added later that allows humans to play as dragons.  the goals of the new game would surely be different.  But I bet figuring out how to out think a dragon will get harder.

My icq is 20748554 for anyone that wants to contact me go ahead.

47  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: Koldar speaking ;) on: 01 July 2001, 12:15:00
Sorren will likely be the name of the planet in Human Tongue.  Dagada Daonami will be world builders in charge of zones.  Art and I have discussed a nice little background story to go along with this including about how they live outside the plane of existance etc.

The Dagada's have Other Daonami helping them.

Take note that all of these are world builders.  Players will not be given this same application.  The gods choose who are Dagada and who are Daonami and what abilities each have in the world.  One may be able to move objects another change the appearance of them applying different textures.  The method of getting the textures into the game might just be to simply upload it and then log in and move them.  At least that's the idea.

Some Daonami will continue to live in a land after it has been finished and populated with players.  The Dagada left are cursed.  They are unable to move objects but have special abilities to walk through walls and doors at will as well as abserving others without being seen.

If they find anything that needs fixed they have no power to fix it but report to their Dogada who can fix or assign the job to a Daonami.

I hope i'm not getting too elaberate here, i'm trying to quench the thirst for knowledge without flooding the others.

48  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: Koldar speaking ;) on: 01 July 2001, 12:05:00
It's a huge project that's no doubt.  The current age sounds good.  Age of discoveries will work great.

The first version of the game will not be the final version.  It will grow and evolve over time as everything else does.

Basically stage 1 will allow 3d models to be displayed using java and directX on our websites.  These will likely be the same 3d models that's used for objects inside the game.  it isn't quite as time consuming as it may appear at first.  Because the models themselves can be reused for example your coat of arms.  We can texture the same mesh with different skins to have different ones.

Stage 2 will allow world builders to look around the zone (local area or map chopped into downloadable segments)  Downloading of zones will be in the background under limited bandwidth after the current one is downloaded to allow fairly seamless play.

Stage 3 will involve creating communication between the building application and the server so that changes in the zone can be stored on the server.  (details not determined).

Stage 4 will involve developers seeing one another in the same zone and both making changes simultaneously.

Stage 5 will involve many players being able to view and interact with the world.

Art and I have discussed the nature of developers, their roles, appointing them, what to call them in the rpg game so as to not break character etc.

As for a timeline I want to have stage 5 finished in 2 years.  Breaking it down farther would be a challenge.  I think working with you guys may push initial deadlines back but save in the long run but i'm not sure.

This will be hard and rewarding work for all of us.  I don't plan on messing with your history at all.  there isn't much from Sorren to work in.  Art and I seem to feel about the same way in most instances about matching stuff up.

It's too big of a project for us to create all of santharia at once.  Way too big of a project.  We are going to figure out how to do this with a small town called Uderza.

49  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: Xenos Makes A stand on: 30 June 2001, 22:48:00
I won't take it to heart.  Just keep in mind the game may not go like you or I intended.  Art and I are both careful enough to protect our dreams from damage.  If the game doesn't work out Santharia is simply left with more applications to play with and continues as normal.  If Santharia doesn't work out Sorren is simply left with more details about the fantasy world and will continue to grow as normal.

If my guess is right though they will both work out quite well and continue to grow and develop into an elaborate fantasy world bigger than any of us imagined.

Technology limits us right now.  But if we can play catch up we can get on top of the newest toys and ride them into the next decade.

I think the near future has a lot to offer including million triangles per second renders.  Remote control flat panel glasses (true 3d through lcd).  Smell and pain feedback.  Motion detection interface.  The fun stuff we now see in the movies I feel are very close.  And by getting on top of modern technology we can get ever closer to making dreams a reality.

I created a company when I was 19.  Our slogan was "Making Dreams a Reality".  I suppose that's one of the things that caught my attention with Santharia.

50  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: Xenos Makes A stand on: 30 June 2001, 17:43:00
In response to these demands of Sorren mentioned above...

>1. this must be ROLE playing, not some hack'n slash 3d game, RP must be done, and thse who dont MUST be removed promptly and efficently, I will not have my creations, or arts, or dala's, or koldars, that have taken hours of our time reduced to little modles for some wanna be hero to hack up without appreicating the story behind it.

>2. Applicants Must go through a short world getting used to training, so they have at least a basic idea before they start RolePlaying(see demand 1)

>3. this not interfir with our creativity, I know that things such as measurement and currency are important but so are anchent heros, or varios wines, and things like that...


This is an example of what must not happen.  The good little list of demands.  I have heard Sorren players mention things like.

Example 1. As long as Santharia agrees to not create more then a human race then I would say okay.  But additional races is just so dumb.

Example 2. They can't have magic in Santharia, what's going to happen next, create little pixies to sprinkle pixie dust everywhere.

Well I believe very strongly that these decisions aren't made like this.  I can say what my vision is for Sorren.  But I can't guarantee to any demands.  The final product will probably not be my vision.  Art, Xenos, others will dramatically effect what is in the final product.  But we get closer to the goal i'm not going to get lost in technicalities, and I'm not going to say Santharia has to be a certain way.  That's not my place.

Now to answer the specific items as best as I can from my current vision.

1.  I see some players interacting with Sorren as a hack/slash game because that's all that some players know.  I plan on monitoring the game well, and that means approving character names for them to level past a certain point.

Keep in mind I have a strong background in non-graphical mud playing.

2.  I would like to see a newbie training area.  One in which the character will be taught about proper role playing.  I also want to see little details added to the game to make it more adventurous for the "true" roleplayer.  When I say that I mean maybe going so far as to code in dynamic quests that take many clues to solve.  A hard quest may involve learning an Elvish language from instructional books found in the game.  I know this may be a bit elaborate right now, but in a couple of years it will seem closer to reality.

3.  I came to Santharia because of the creativity.  I don't plan on making a list of rules you must adhere to.  Keep in mind that both Art and I have made quite a few accomplishments that have taken reasoning, teamwork, insight, creativity, and dedication.  After talking with him I don't feel he is going to wreck my current view of Sorren.  Although I am sure the view will change.  Change isn't always good or bad.  But change will always exist.  I just help to guide it in the direction I believe myself and players will enjoy seeing it go.  And yes I give your opinions with the same value I do player suggestions.

51  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: hmmmmmm on: 30 June 2001, 17:09:00
This is in response to the concept of a merger.  This isn't what's happening.  I guess we can look at it more as a pooling of talents to better a world.  I'll elaberate more below.

I have had many programmers come to me excited about helping to improve Sorren making little progress.  I'm happy to see what Art has pulled off here.  You have excellent cooperation.  That's the kind of help that's useful.  Not the kind that disappears.

Art mentioned a calendar system, units of measure, necessary maps.  These are the things that Sorren needs the most, he hit the nail on the head.  These are also many of the things that Santharia needs.  Why do the same thing twice?  In addition to this Santharia already has much of what's needed.  Beasts and races for example.  Granted I may not be able to create all the races at the start or even make them all playable.  We would probably start by creating a small town with only humans with a few beasts outside the town.

Upgrading the previous example we might find a way for players in game to pick up an object and move it somewhere else.  Allow a person with no programming or art experience to decorate a house, or market with the details needed to make it look "right".  Having good communication to everyone will also be nice like if a builder needs an apple for a fruit stand how can they get it?

Now back to the first paragraph.  This isn't a merger.  Santharia doesn't have to be changed to fit Sorren, and Sorren doesn't have to be molded to fit Santharia.  But sharing the same resources is beneficial to both.  As well as sharing the same applications.

52  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: Sorren/Santharia - how might this work. on: 30 June 2001, 16:47:00
In response to the question about using Santharian characters in the game.

I haven't decided exactly how to work everything in.  I will have to discuss ideas with you all for most of it.  There will be a lot of cross involvement if we decide to do this.

I cannot handle building a site like santharia.com in which people can interact with one another in order to develop the world.

Some of the things we may look into is the ability for 3D artists to have their models displayed on the Santharia webpage next to creature descriptions.

I'm not the person making this decision.  I would need to discuss this with art, but in my opinion I don't see playing characters that have been previously created in santharia as a good thing except for the creators of those characters.  Keep in mind the process will be evolutionary not revolutionary.  I don't have 20 3d artists, 10 programmers, 2 sound guys, and lead for each team.  Reason being that I desire to keep the game free, but I feel that a 2 year evolutionary development can get us a nice and fun 3d mmorpg.

I'm going to touch on something else I read higher on the message boards briefly.  Sorren is not another online web based strategy game.  I created the strategy game using the same database to house an rpg the heroes in The Lands of Sorren will be playable as rpg characters in The Heroes of Sorren.  I made a decision to work with Santharia rather than one of the other rpg dream sites.  I don't believe Santharia is just another of those many fantasy (ad

53  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: Sorren/Santharia - how might this work. on: 30 June 2001, 16:18:00
Yes I'm working with a 3D engine now to discover the development time and resources needed.  There will still be some issue I know we will need to work out Sorren side.

The strategy will not end.  The idea of Sorren is many games tied into the same world.  So like there might be one program that allows the world to be created and another for players.

From what I have been experimenting with so far it looks as if the framework of the game will work something like this...

The world is divided into geographic zones.  The zones around the current one you are in are downloaded in the background if your character has never been in that zone before on a limited bandwidth basis.  The more you explore the more levels load.  I'm wanting to be able to allow builders to build a zone (one of these levels) and then admins check it out and seamlessly tie it in to the rest of the world assigning a certain range prior to hitting the entrance that the level gets queued for download.

54  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Sorren/Santharia - how might this work. on: 25 June 2001, 14:27:00
I have been discussing with Artimidor the idea of Santharian and Sorren working together to better the development of both.

Santharia has a nice history, and creative resources amongst other things.  But is limited in it's ability for people to live in the world.

Sorren has an addicting online environment with thousands of active players.  But the land doesn't have a history.

When I had originally started to work on sorren it was to be a fantasy world.  A planet to itself.  I have continually made progress towards building this world.

Artimidor has a similar dream his work can be seen in santharia.com.

There isn't a human tongue name for his world.  Artimidor and I have discussed making that name Sorren.  The Lands of Sorren is a strategy/simulation game playable for free at www.sorren.com.  The Hero's of Sorren will be a 3d interactive world using directX in which players can use their Hero's to explore the town, battle, improve skills, and interact with one another.

Wouldn't it be nice if the history, background, beasts, calendar, and much more fitted with Santhoria.

Before we go about making the ties needed to bring the two together we are both asking players and fans for their input.

Please reply so that we know your input.

55  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Everlasting life on: 09 August 2001, 13:36:00
I think to make characters be able to die it should take years (real life) and there should be ways to prevent it.

Maybe a potion made from rare eggs found in the catacombs.  (catacomb eggs are from a mud called medievia)

By the way I kind of remember darklands.  The version I am thinking of was one of those shareware copies about 5 years ago.  I don't remember the youth stuff but that's cool.

56  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / yup on: 02 August 2001, 06:23:00
That's exactly the idea.  I have thought about a great many other things when brainstorming ideas over the last few years.  rpg characters all seem to be adults.  Would be fun to have children.  Under the care of adults of course.  Just a few thoughts.  I actually wrote up quite a bit about this idea.  But it will remain just an idea for a few years.  Need to have a game before improving every little section of it.

57  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / a couple thoughts. on: 30 July 2001, 07:59:00
With skillsets I like the idea of flexability.  Some skills may be easier then others for some classes.  But the class is determined by the skill.  The skills need to be determined by the players behavior.

Functionally maybe something like this...

Creating a gain table that might look something like this...

heroID, statID, UsedCounter

1, 1, 10
1, 2, 12
1, 3, 7
2, 1, 9
2, 3, 10

Then at the end of say 1 hour. we can have it find the top 2 used stats of all players currently on.  And then execute a formula on them for stat gain.

maybe like (statmax-statvalue)/10000=statgain

delete all stat records from the gains table where the player isn't currently on.

58  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Re: skill sets on: 14 July 2001, 06:16:00
I have thought about this quite a bit.  I'm a bit scared of races in the frist version.  I'm going to design the game using a 3 tier architecture.

datastore
processinglogic
userinterface

The userinterface is the program that you actually use to play the game.  I plan on making a different user interface for each race.  So it will be similar to a different game.

but since the processinglogic is stored on another set of servers that part and the datastore won't have to be recreated.

I don't want a hack and slash game.  Or I want to design pieces of the game that attracts the hack and slash players to the same area.  Therefore I don't think it's a good idea to make any skill sets mandatory.  That includes combat ones.

I think that when a player is created they should be able to choose 3 skills that they will be able to learn at 2 times the normal rate, but all skills will still be learnable.  The class will not determine what they are good at.  Their best skills will determine their class so their class can change.

I like how UO handles increasing skills through using that particular skill.  With a few changes of course to prevent the uo macro issue.

Each skill has a max level which increases with practice.  The actual skill level decreases with use and increases over time to reach the max.  Chance of max skill level increase is modified by the actual skill level.

I think this would give players who use their skills naturally while playing a better increase and make macroing useless.

Any thoughts are welcome.  The above is how I vision it heading but it's definately not set in stone.

59  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / Where did the name come from. on: 02 August 2001, 06:30:00
It came from an old irc chatroom password about 10 years ago.  A friend of mine and I ran it.

60  Santharian Game Projects / General Game Discussions & Newbie Area / I'm all for the idea of starting to make charts. on: 30 July 2001, 08:37:00
Our existing player base is not going to be the same players who play the 3d rpg.  I at least hope not.  I will on the otherhand take advantage of my resources and traffic to swap advertising with other companies etc in order to gain more players who are interested in the 3d rpg.

I have created a sorren forum about the rpg and I'm hoping that those serious about developing and testing have already contacted art or I.  I have been talkign with a couple of programmers last month who are seeming to be more dependable then many in the past have been.

I have been drawing things out a bit with them to make sure they are keepers before flying in head first.  It's often harder to pick up a project from someone else than to just do the whole thing yourself.  which in this case is impossible becuase of the complexity and size of the project.

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