If you look at our 'real world'...
The world seems to populate at a alarming rate....

1 little technology, 1 little boost of welfare....

Population can double up for the next generation....


Consider the impacts of a massively used birth controller like a condom (or santharian moon-thea) and a sexual revolution is born. People can finally have pleasure alot without spawning a child every 9 months.

Consider the impacts of medical science in santharia. If some doctor developed a vaccine against the flu, 50% less people would die from that disease, population would spiral upwards even more.

What if dangerous predators like dragons, ogres or dangerous forest creatures like giant spiders started to get hunted down and killed, the population would grow....

Wars are known for population reduction, however often after every war the country recovers and welfare boosts which often results into a baby-boom. (lost souls strenghten the voids and gaps in society by enlarging their families and building strong connections again for wealth of future offspring)....

How about magic and alchemy is a factor too?
Potions that have effects like blood-magic? enhance the max age?
The older people get the bigger the population becomes....

How about industry....
Perhaps somewere in santharia there is a smart farmer that found some way to produce large quantities of food. (maybe he enchanted his cows to produce more milk, he mutated his chicken trough xeau magic and it reproduces like a slimer, or perhaps we got mages working in a facility to summon imps daily that are produced into meat)
A meat facility would allow the max-population to rise as it might be a important source to prevent famine and hardships. The more a country would rely on the industry the more money it would get to grow and prosper....

Hmmm
Also take into consideration the number of offspring a country has on average....
Farmers might typically get large families of up to 8, however many might die becomes of some bad things in the wild.
Nobility might also want a big family to enhance influence.
If there is a golden age or not a lot of death in their history....
Nobody of their families dies....
Then the population would 10 double.

So 1000 becomes 10.000 and another generation might allready count 100.0000

Typically there is a limit on how much a country can provide for.
If the population rises faster then it's welfare then the country might be plunged into a war.
Especially if the majority of population are young adults. They are filled with fire and will want to fight for their personal welfare, they might be willing to die to gain a better future for their kin.
It are ofcourse the nobility that guide the flocks and manipulate them for their own gains.

Population is a very organic thing and i explored this alot in my 'underworld entry' i am still working on.

Population plays a big role in crime. And welfare too.
And magic too.

To do list:

-----
-Provide more information about the small-time criminality and its evolutions

-Provide more information on "underdeveloped areas"

-Fix grammar and typos, revise parts for better reading

-Introduce the effects antagonists of the crime worlds (heroes and champions of valor?)

-Show effects and events influenced by organized crime (dead bodies, arson to cover up crimes, assassinations of nobility, etc.)

......
More ideas could include:
-criminal slang
-items and forbidden magics
-integration of blood eye cult, true visionaries, blood childs as examples of underworld layering.
-Zoom in to show more detailed examples of "organizations", "myths", "cults", "gangs", "historical events".


(i will probably revise the entire entry as soon as i have all the information compiled in the current entry,
I will produce a better read. As it's not a very nice read currently, i will make it a bit more story-driven and add some tension for a better read)

Ok I guess the underworld discussion should continue in the entry i made.
I've posted what i have so far.

@Kareesh
It isn't a organization

it's a layer of society.
It can be applied to any urban district.
It acts like a taint.
It can applied toward remusian cities, sarvonian cities and nybelmar cities.
Wherever there is urban life there can be (but doesn't have to be) crime.
Crime as a taint is what i call the underworld.
The underworld is a new entry and it differs from the thieves underground.
The thieves underground is merely a branch, or an aspect of the greater "underworld".
(tough it might be a bit confusing, because the names are similar)

@Ryldor:
Done (i posted it)

The underworld

The underworld is an urban dystopia.
It’s a corruption of society into a world of crime.

---

Overview

It’s the darker layers of any race; mainly the human, that represent the immoral and wicked side of society.

he Underworld is often made up of unrestrained and widespread activities that are most of the time coordinated by organizational structures.
They openly engage in wrongdoing,  societal vices and shameful acts. They are guilty of actions that are injurious to public welfare.
The underworld is considered to be the embodiment of humanity’s greatest weakness and corruption.

Tough all races in the world of Caelereth have their own form of misconduct and wrongdoing, the human society is the most adaptable and diversified. Human nature centres around power, while elves are more concerned with beauty and creation of life. The dwarves are driven for wealth and orcs for destruction.
The darker aspects of the three races: “elves, dwarves and orcs” often supplement the much larger syndicates and crime structures of humanity.

The darkness of human nature spawned from the shadows of society; have often caused great calamity and catastrophe for their entire race. As crime lords grow in power so grows their ambition. It often starts with mischief that turns into a profit, a profit that becomes a gold-mine; and it attracts more mischief, eventually circling and spiralling out of control until it’s stopped by authorities or rival mischief.

History is filled with records of heinous crime, some of these crimes have caused rebellions and even wars.

---

Appearance

The appearance of these organizational structures and characteristics of the underworld are those of the vices that surface within a human (or any other race, for that matter).

Prostitution (Exploit of sexual Lust):
Sexual lust is one of the best branches of crime for the underworld. It deals with the intense wish, desire or craving for the body. There are lots of men who take desire in cheating on the spouse and fantasize about that which is out of reach. Often too much lust is considered morally wicked; therefor most societies have strict laws about monogamy.
This is often to avoid the spreading of dangerous diseases, unhappiness and to prevent the “crimes of passion”.
Forms of prostitution are most predominant in the metropolises of santharia. During harsh times of poverty, the body becomes ones biggest asset. Prostitution is a way to survive and is in most societies somewhat tolerated (tough frowned upon). There are gangs and strong men who see these women to be profitable and they’d become the middleman towards bigger circles of customers. Rivalry might attract gangs or even spawn them in order to protect their women (that are considered nothing else but a source of income), and they might even  give them with tattoo’s or scars to ‘brand them’.

More exploits to be added (ideas, some might be combined into one):
Theft (Exploit of riches and Greed):
Wrath
Pride
Gluttony
Sloth
Extremism
Hedonism
Licentiousness
Lunacy
Ruthlessness
Zealousness

---

People (driving force of the dystopia  higher class)

The people of the underworld are those who are detached from society, the cruel and sadistic monsters of humanity, necromancers, slavers, avengers, fanatics of dark gods, obsessive crusaders, forsaken and fallen rogues that enforce a cold hearted and amoral justice, deceptive, savage and psychotic outsiders that are unfathomable yet drawn to prey on the weak and the helpless, conquerors and cult leaders gathering minions for their egoistical and malicious plots, ruthless and brutal warlords and utopian visionaries.
These are the power mad, the corrupted and darkest inhuman desires, the deviant and the devoted who want to take on society to puppet the good and ignorant law abiding citizens for their own gains. These are the masterminds and champions of the underworld. The taint of society, and the bane of every kingdom.

People (spawned by taint of the dystopia lower class)
Abductors, adulterers, pyromaniacs, thugs, henchmen, burglars, bribers, counterfeiters, drunkards, duellers, embezzlers, outcasts, outlaws, extortionists, forgers, murderers, thief’s, pirates, rapists, rioters, trespassers, slavers, fencers, prostitutes and psychopaths are a few examples of underworld inhabitants.

People in general:
Corrupt law enforcement agencies that are involved in keeping peace, might make the lives of its enemies a living nightmare.  They provide villains excellent ways to maintain secret control over portions of populations.
Governments that become controlled by dictators or villainous puppet masters; they might draw taxes, create new laws that stimulate dystopian growth and provide a good base to exploit the needs of the power mad and evil that’s associated with the underworld.
There are rogues and villains that control the flow of supplies and stimulate welfare in urban hubs or cities. They might blackmail society by cutting of particular goods, creating increased demands or move contraband into the city in large quantities.
There are profitable merchants often in the form of guilds, that like to enhance their profit by organizing themselves for this very purpose. They might spawn advanced financial services such as moneylenders, financiers and exchangers, and enforce their amassing fortunes by hiring henchmen to establish nefarious reputations.

Organizations and classes
Independent organizations, secret societies, rebellious movements, brotherhoods and secret networks, corrupt officials, thief guilds, assassin guilds, black marketers, hatchet men, raiders, mercenaries and military forces led by diabolic warlords.
Often the organizations have different levels of intrigue. The highest of any crime circle is often called a “crime king”; possessing inner circles in which crime lords (patsies) enforce specialized tasks. the crime lords of the inner circle have their own underlings and captains who in their turn employ the henchmen, lackey and other disposable hirelings.
Sometimes it’s a natural process created through cause and effect (like classes in a society), but in other cases it is controlled by 1 organization and it’s called: “organized crime”.

---

Crime lords (conspiracy agents)
Conspiracy agent:
Making agreements with two or more persons to do an unlawful act. (working around the law, to complete goals ///
plotting a crime using lawful goals.)

Normal crime (level 1):
Black market Fencer:
A person who has made a business of receiving and disposing of stolen goods.
He’s the central nexus of robbers, art thieves and pirates. If an organization grows larger or cooperates with other fencers, it might spawn forth a black market.

Bootlegger (the dealer):
To make, transport, sell and deal in unlawful goods.
(false trinkets, liquors, potions, drugs and reagents)

Duelling promotor:
A person that encourages, organizes and promotes prearranged combats between two persons or parties in order to obtain a profit from it.
Gang Lord (agent of chaos):
Trough absence or failing of the law enforcement; the gang lord rises. The gang lord becomes a authority of power through the (sworn) obedience he gets from his followers. The gang Lord is a person that does anything for the betterment of him, his family, his goals or his community, even if it means breaking the laws.

Evolved crime (level 2):
Extortionist (shark/ mobster):
Extortion is a natural evolution of structural crime, to exploit the dissipating abiding of the law.  
The inability of using the law makes it possible for opposing parties to wrest money or information from crime lords by use of violence, intimidation, or abuse of authority.

Smuggling lord:
A person that imports or exports (goods) secretly, in violation of the law.
It’s often a service to bring non-lawful goods towards other crime lords (or straight towards the target-crowd).

(-----needs extra development----)
(-----provide detailed descriptions of every organizational structure in 3 levels-----)
(----- Add another 3 levels of minion types and their underworld society----)

---

Paths of the Crime kings (A crime king often taints society by its very presence)
-The path of the Liche
-gang leaders (strength and intimidations)
-Outsiders (necromancers, demons, dragons, rogue wizards, Warlords and villainous outcasts)
-Head of the Family and patrons  
(-----needs extra development-----)

---

Locations:

smuggling Hubs
It all depends on how far corruption has spread, in most cases the underworld has certain Hubs throughout the country, mostly hidden in crowded places. These hubs are the crossroads of were the rogues meet, they are the places where no one dares to ask too many questions  whenever a visitor vanishes; and furthermore they are the trading hub of smuggling contraband and mostly these hubs stimulate the growth of unique skills and equipment that are forbidden or frowned upon by the law.

Political taint
the dark underworld often nests it-selves trough intrigue and manipulative games; and the taint spreads through political and nobility as well. It is often thought that the nobility and crime lords of any city often work together (in secret), because not all goals can be achieved through legal methods. Because wherever the law authorities fail, the underworld provides outcome with its dark services that might take care of any problem (for a price, of course).

Dark Urban areas
Every aspect of urban life is controlled by someone or something. Whenever enterprising villains take over this influence; the urban areas can quickly succumb toward becoming underworld territory. The urban-villain’s propulsions and urges often express the control and effects it has on the residing population. As crime grows it often attracts more sinister individuals with dark agendas, and the good law abiding citizens will try to flee, adapt or join the forbidden activities in their tainted society.

Black market
Every culture has taboos, and every city has a shadow economy based on the breaking of those taboos (i.e. providing forbidden services). This is where the underworld supplies itself with forbidden magic, deadly weapons and other diabolical goods).

Savage wilderness
Lairs are often hidden away just outside of the urban societies and are often created specifically to keep the law, authorities and other enemies away from whatever it is they are doing. The villains often use cave complexes, abandoned ruins, strongholds and small fortifications for their misdeeds and in rare cases even secluded islands or ships as their bases of operations.
The savage wilderness is often used in places where the taint of urban dystopia isn’t as dominant and the roots aren’t strong enough to hide their activities in broad daylight. Sometimes they have to produce mass-productions of illegal contraband that might only be safe outside urban setting.

Depths, shallows and the under-dark
Often the under-dark and any form of underground catacomb or caves that are inhabited by secretive societies are associated with the underground. Most often they are the lairs of a crime king and the heart of truly evil operations and practices. There are myths and tales of entire underground cities that connect and intersect with the upper cities of the law abiding societies.

---

I am still working on this underground.

I was wondering,....

Whats the best way to structure such a entry?

Is it like a peoples entry?
Or a places entry?
Or a tribes entry?


I currently made my own form and structure,...

I think maybe....
it belongs to "other realities" or "other places".

The entry it selves basically describes a layer of society that might fit unto almost any (mainly human) tribe with a urban setting.

 

Have any of you ever played the game " civilization" ?

You create laws and policies based on government type and welfare.

So each civilization (colonization) develops different laws.

Traditionalists might have laws against changing their traditions.

A mageocracy might allow magics that are forbidden normally.

A santhran (high king) his job is to establish order.
He wants to spread his culture (and laws) to make the kingdom into one whole.
To do so he will try to spread his influences and laws and traditions and …..

At one point these borders clash.
And especially with different races or tribes that have a very different welfare, a common set of laws becomes impossible.


However…..

There are those universal laws.
The laws of the moral code.

These laws is what everyone knows and is common sense.

This is what i would see as a codex.

---

In my opinion the laws do no not need to be defined in this entry.
Also i do not need " a codex"  to write the underworld.
Since my entry is a global entry i would write it with applying the laws of common sense.

It actually makes a good sub-section for a grey area.

How about HUMAN TRIBE XXX has the tradition to burn WOOD TREES XXX
But ELF TRIBE XXX sees those trees as elder trees and doesn't want them cut.
A battle breaks out. There is people murdered to protect racial interests.
Its opinionated law….
This is where Santhros comes in with his codex, i think, and plays his part.

I think one there has to be specific laws, it will have to be added to the respected tribe entry.
When someone writes these laws, he might also explain why these laws have to exist.
Which brings us to the roots of these crimes, the swawning of the underworld in this society.

Underworld spawns simply there were the laws fail.
I am not going to name every law.

EXAMPLE
A group of people. Outstanding citizens, want to make money.
They do some alchemy and travel the world and engineer a new product.
This product stimulates the body to be stronger.
Strenght is power and gives power.
Power is addictive.
So they quickly gain more customers. First surrounding towns. It is used by miners who use the strenght to work 3 times as hard.
Disturbances in welfare are felt.
Other miners can not stand the competition of the " drug using miners"  without using the product themselves.
The flow of money grows as popularity of this drug spreads.
It's all legal….

However the thane sees a progressing number of murders, and dependibility of this drug.
He doesn't like it.
He might change the law, to put a halt to it.
Because:
He doesn't want anyone becoming powerfuller then him.
Because it screws up normal welfare.
Beceause he doesn't want people to be addicts.
(…. input various reasons….)

After it happened and the drug has been dealt with.
The law is modified to make it illigal.

The underworld is either created or needs to be created in order for this drug to rise again.
Escape the eye of authority and avoid its hammer of justice.

---

So i think it's an organic mechanic.
Laws and underworld alike.

There are as many examples as there are stories.

---

However it's still useful for any story to know were exactly these boundaries of laws and underworld.
I think it should be left to imagination of those that create specific entries about crimes.

The idea is not to restrict writing.
But encourage creating new ideas, and new crimes.

So if a codex or a law-system is written:
I would say its just a guide, like a moral code.
Maybe it needs to just give examples of laws depending on some regions.
It needs to give an idea of why the codex is needed.
If you were to write a global codex for every single law, you might as well write the entire santharian history in it. (it's impossible)

I would keep also the laws in a very general direction.

Make a mention of why magic was forbidden and why it's becoming more legal now.
Just broad and general stuff…

That's what i would think about the subject

Well i am thinking a bit about 'game of thrones'.

I thought southern sarvonia was called the kingdom of santharia.

And i thought there used to be different kingdoms.

But now they all bow to one king.
The santhran.

I would think there is still lots of laws that differ from country to country.
(especially from race to race)

But there are some laws of unification and laws that concern the greater whole.

The more local laws are bound to territory and are there to advance welfare or some personal gain of the authority.

This codex might be something like "the ten commandments" from the bible, is what i figured.

---

@Ryldor

 

Now you understand the scope of my entry, and why it's a tough one to write.
It needs to generalize crime as a whole.
Its basically an entry about any crime form in particular.
In the entry i might give examples of territory bound crimes.
Underworld can be found everywhere but how it looks and acts is different, since laws differ; everywhere.

@ Rakvél

yes!
That's what i meant.
Hmmm
I thought up 2 directions you could take this in:

The codex is an ancient book, very old.... from which all kingdoms adapted their own versions.
or
The codex is a newer book.... that was needed to stop wars, bloodshed and complexer crime as it emerged during expansion and unification.

Hmmm
law gets really complex if you add demihumans toward it.
Any small trivial matter, might become a big matter when longer lifespans are involved.

As I was brainstorming my crime ideas, i've been bumping against this "law system"  a lot.

When you got Crime (and a rising underworld), the law has to grow as well.

I've been bumping against some of these questions about the law…
And so far i've been assuming things.
For example:
It's a medieval time, medieval lands, yet more civilized and peaceful than years back.
I would assume there is some kind of CODEX, probably created trough a religious system in which there is a moral code and laws.
I would assume this CODEX is the law system of the SANTHRAN who strives for order and peace. (thus the creation of the codex might have also played a part in the unifications of the kingdoms of santharia).
LAWS used to be just a SYSTEM to create ORDER by the former kings (who are now dukes? The moment the kingdoms unified, the other tribes had to give up their titles of kings towards santhros? I'm not sure about this).
So which is important is….
Who are the highest authorities in the kingdom?
They are the wielder of the laws. The Lords of high justice are the same as the Dukes or Kings of santharia (double titles apply to the same position).
Also there are the ORDERS (order of the fallen for example); they might enforce only the laws they stand for. (They might have the function of an FBI or CIA in synonym towards our real world)
The highest authority of any tribe has to live by the rules of the CODEX.
Yet some of the kingdoms still have influences of ancient culture and laws of their own tribes.

Then you would talk about 'slavery'.
There are many more moot points like 'slavery'.
Perhaps the Law against slavery would exist if there had been slavery in the past somewhere.
In this history of slavery there might have been some kind of rebellion or uprising that eventually created a "necessity for this law"

Also there is the questions of:

The punishments.

-Is torture still legal (it's medieval)?
-If an elf performs the same crimes as a human, does the human society make distinctions? What if the punishment is death or the hacking off a limb. Does an elf of 400 years old have to live forever with the loss of a limb? It seems kind of unfair and drastic. However maybe it should be unfair and drastic.
-There might be high courts and prisons for the higher class and the demihumans.
-It's medieval. As crime spawns bigger, there might be needs to make an example out of someone. (how about gallows, head chopping and burning at the stake to set an example towards the lower class?)
-magic and racial crimes might play a big part in the LAWSYSTEM.

My underworld can be written independently of the law system.
I will just assume that somewhere and anywhere every type of law and punishment applies.
The organic evolution of UNDERWORLD is directly influenced by LAWS.

I would look at the higher AUTHORITY to determine LAWS.
A powerful mage or brutal warlord might establish their own laws and are flagged criminals by means of the codex.
But the santhran and kingdoms might still profit somewhat from import and export, and might value the peace in the lands to be more important then pursuing the criminal (as it might mean full-blown war). Thus borders become important. Especially if 2 kingdoms are too different. (1 has slavery, the other doesn't) then you might want to enforce the border or avoid crossing it.
Anyways there are huge grey areas, like illegal migration, or perhaps illegal goods.
There might be tribes in santharia that have no interest in following CODEX laws, simply because it would ruin their welfare.


@Rakvel

If you want to make laws or a codex…

I could provide you with some background info regarding to crime, that you could draw from….
Which might stimulate more ideas and aspects to implement.
 

I was currently working on:

How the underworld came to be.
The origins/ evolution

(notice the thieves underground is not not the same as my "underworld"; tough the names are similar)

In this entry i plan on answering some of these thematic questions:

1 THE LAYERS/ NEXUS POINTS OF THE UNDERWORLD
-The frameworks of beginning organizations (listed by the type of crime lord)
Expansion of structural crime and coordinated crime.
There will be 3 levels:
level 1: describes nexus points for the birth of crime lords and coordinated structures.
level 2: describes nexus points for organized crime and specializations of crime.
level 3: describes nexus points for evolutions of crime ( possible avenues of what organized crime could turn into (anarchy, rebellion, the followers of gangs and their migrations) , and the connections with the darker and evil sides of the world like psychopaths, cultists, necromancers, maybe even demons or whatever malicious forces at work)


2 MOTIVATIONS AND INSTIGATION OF CRIME
-How do the roots of crimes intertwine with established laws and moral codes?
-what kind of traits (vices) are responsible for triggering crime inside a society?
-What’s the severity of punishments and the chances of getting caught?


Hmmm
I've got some great sources here to draw from.
It's a bit of a hassle to make it into my own neat structure.

@Ryldor

Your 'generic rogues'  might be the same as my 'crime lords'.

Every crime lords gets a description of it's trade and how the basic overlay of the organization works.
Here's some of the stuff i thought up so far:
I'm still expanding on it

Level 1:

Black market Fencer:
A person who has made a business of receiving and disposing of stolen goods.
He’s the central nexus of robbers, art thieves and pirates. If an organization grows larger or cooperates with other fencers, it might spawn forth a black market.

Bootlegger (the dealer):
To make, transport, sell and deal in unlawful goods.
(false trinkets, liquors, potions, drugs and reagents)

Dueling promoter:
A person that encourages, organizes and promotes prearranged combats between two persons or parties in order to obtain a profit from it.

Gang Lord (agent of chaos):
Trough absence or failing of the law enforcement; the gang lord rises. The gang lord becomes a authority of power through the (sworn) obedience he gets from his followers. The gang Lord is a person that does anything for the betterment of him, his family, his goals or his community, even if it means breaking the laws.

Level 2:
Extortionist (shark/ mobster):
Extortion is a natural evolution of structural crime, to exploit the dissipating abiding of the law. 
The inability of using the law makes it possible for opposing parties to wrest money or information from crime lords by use of violence, intimidation, or abuse of authority.

Smuggling lord:
A person that imports or exports (goods) secretly, in violation of the law.
It’s often a service to bring non-lawful goods towards other crime lords (or straight towards the target-crowd).

---

I intend to expand a bit further on some of these lords. (information on how they operate)
But basically if you add them all together you get syndicates and organized crime, or perhaps even a criminal force that is stronger then the local authorities.

I think the 'rogues' you might want to describe are dark champions, like thieves and assassins and other specializations.
I am more focused on writing the setting they live in.
Where do they meet? How does it all work, behind the scenes?

If you are an assassin.... You might need a little operation to back you up, otherwise certain enemies will kill you.
So i want to know where does a assassin go to find his contacts?
From who does a master-thief learn that the high noble of xxx has a precious diamond buried in his backyard?
Where do pirates dock and sell their stolen goods?
How do hookers protect themselves?
What are the results on society trough crime?
Like drugs....(imagine addicts crawling around the streets like zombies)
Like gang violence... (imagine dead bodies and hacked of limbs floating in the rivers trough town)
Like forceful gang domination ( law authorities might be afraid and the normal people join crime in order to compete with the market, good citizens are sloths, they look the other way...)

Anyway....

I'm trying to create a setting.

If you got ideas or stuff to contribute,
We could work together Ryldor.
I could implement your ideas,
or you could implement mine...

 

My new name shall be "Burton Sable"

Which i think is a fitting name for a 'underworld' researcher.
 

So no more Confusion.
Darién is my 'RPG character'.
Burton Sable is my 'compendium researcher'

@ Artimidor

I think Ryldor was just brainstorming with me.
I don't know if he wants to develop stuff.
Hmm
I'll just try to create this underworld entry.

@Ryldor
What you say might work, tough i think there are lots of rogues.
There are lots of crimes as well. Every crime has it's own rogues.
This would or could create an endless list of rogue types.
(i don't want to describe them all, i might miss some..., and it's still difficult to create branches if they aren't specific to one territory)

I would write a Underworld entry.
It's where everything that can be good, gets a bad twist.
It's almost like an example of AVA vs COOR.
This is a layer of human's worst aspects tainting society.

Here's a sample.
I think I'd like to categorize the types of rogues by their "vice and exploit".
If i list every type of rogue then the list would get too long.
I'd rather give a brief explanation of criminal structures and maybe provide some job-descriptions.
A thief is a rogue.
A thief steals.
A thief thus belongs to the sin and exploit of "greed".
But a thief can be a robber, a con-artist, a pirate or a burglar.
An organization can spawn from several enterprising thieves that meet and start a business, in which they might need a "fencer" and a "contact in the department of treasury, to plot their missions."
So in order to keep a good overview, we might need to branch the rogues into their respective Vices. When I'm done it will eventually provide a good overview on how to link these organizations together (which is left to the readers imagination).

The Underworld of Santharia

Overview

It’s the darker layers of any race; mainly the human, that represent the immoral and wicked side of society.

he Underworld is often made up of unrestrained and widespread activities that are most of the time coordinated by organizational structures.
They openly engage in wrongdoing, sins and shameful acts. They are guilty of actions that are injurious to public welfare.
The underworld is considered to be the embodiment of humanity’s greatest weakness and corruption.

Tough all races in the world of Caelereth have their own form of misconduct and wrongdoing, the human society is the most adaptable and diversified. Human nature centres around power, while elves are more concerned with beauty and creation of life. The dwarves are driven for wealth and orcs for destruction.
The darker aspects of the three races: “elves, dwarves and orcs” often supplement the much larger syndicates and crime structures of humanity.

The darkness of human nature spawned from the shadows of society; have often caused great calamity and catastrophe for their entire race. As crime lords grow in power so grows their ambition. It often starts with mischief that turns into a profit, a profit that becomes a gold-mine; and it attracts more mischief, eventually circling and spiraling out of control until it’s stopped by authorities or rival mischief.

History is filled with records of heinous crime, some of these crimes have caused rebellions and even wars.
(there are a lot of santharian example entries that can be linked towards the underworld)

Appearance

The appearance of these organizational structures and characteristics of the underworld are those of the vices that surface within a human (or any other race, for that matter).

Prostitution (Exploit of sexual Lust):
Sexual lust is one of the best branches of crime for the underworld. It deals with the intense wish, desire or craving for the body. There are lots of men who take desire in cheating on the spouse and fantasize about that which is out of reach. Often too much lust is considered morally wicked; therefor most societies have strict laws about monogamy.
This is often to avoid the spreading of dangerous diseases, unhappiness and to prevent the “crimes of passion”.
Forms of prostitution are most predominant in the metropolises of santharia. During harsh times of poverty, the body becomes ones biggest asset. Prostitution is a way to survive and is in most societies somewhat tolerated (tough frowned upon). There are gangs and strong men who see these women to be profitable and they’d become the middleman towards bigger circles of customers. Rivalry might attract gangs or even spawn them in order to protect their women (that are considered nothing else but a source of income), and they might even  give them with tattoo’s or scars to ‘brand them’.
Add several job descriptions of this branch here.
Pimp, prostitute, slaver, etc.

Theft (Exploit of riches and Greed):
Theft is considered to be the wrongful taking and carrying away of personal goods or property of another.
 Robbery, theft and trickery all go into the same avenue.
Thief, robber, looter, etc.

-----<more crimes based on their exploit and sins>----


On a side note: I think it's best to categorize the type of crime by the "weakness of the trait"....

I just wrote this as a sample for a more global entry.
I like the idea of categorizing criminality by sins.
If someone were to look for a crime organization....
He'd go by the list.
He thinks, hmmmmm I want to make a evil organization and it's dominant trait is: "lust"
Lust brings forth prostitution and works like this and this.
That's the kind of structure i need.

basically a global entry is also in a way a guide to making more criminality entries.
But writing it is a master project.

@ everyone :

Does anyone like the idea?
Should i try and write it?

@Artimidor

Yes i agree.
I think i should try and gain some experience.
(i got lot's of theoretical knowledge about writing, but i lack making real stories, i should try and bring it in practice more)

@Ryldor

The thieves underground is just a acknowledgement of "a shady side" toward society.
I think the entry in itself is well-written, it doesn't need revisions or expansions (yet).

I could write "global organizations"... like smugglers, pirates, dealers, kingpins (and so on...); to give a taste or explanation on how they operate.

Or
I could write "a people entry"... On a specific guild or group that existed in year XXX and caused XXX trouble...
I'd not generalize but be specific about.
I could write a kingpin (crime king) that was captured and interrogated. That describes the inner workings of his smuggling and his cartel.

I think the "global organizations" is something that would have to be able to apple to every city and town and santharia, and is thus a master-work. It affects everything so it would have to be done right.
The "people entry" might suit better, since crime is something that spawns from certain factors and is difficult to generalize.

Smugglers for example.
The ways in which smugglers operate depends on the danger they have to overcome.
Smugglers in Ximax might be very different from smugglers in Voldar.
I mean Ximax would probably smuggle illegal reagents, knowledge, power and forbidden magic.
How would you fool a mage? Mages might have some tricks to expose smugglers. It needs some very extraordinary individuals to smuggle stuff. And the smugglers might be linked to organizations such as necromancers and visionaries. Would they smuggle stuff inside Ximax or get stuff out? Ximax has a lot of valueables. Would there be organizations interested in kidnapping mages to their bidding? Or people that are not allowed entry who still want to be a mage?
How about "in the name of the wind" (did you read that book?) (patrick rothfuss, go read now!) there is this girl Devi. Devi is a moneylender to students who can not afford the study. She takes samples of blood of her customers. If they betray her then she owns their lives by using blood magic on them, should they ever not pay back. I really like such ideas.
Smugglers in Voldar might use ships to smuggle....
How about a "prostitution ring".
Is there a "cartel"?
When you think about criminality, you think about "human needs".
If the king does not want his streets cluttered with "whores and prostitution" and he does something about it.
The city watch enforces the law.
But there are still man who want to fuck and have fun.
Do they choose to supress their needs, do whatever the king says and go marry a woman and be faithful?
Or will there be men who rebel against that law and create a secret little mans-club exclusive for those people who still have the "need" even tough it's illigal.
Boom!
A criminal branch is born.
You can think about this in a similar ways about "booze, drugs, knowledge and weapons (....and much more).
Some criminal branches might even directly oppose the laws of their duke/ king.
They might be looking to incite rebellion.

Then there are also the "darker clubs" that prey upon the worst crimes.
They represent the darkest "needs" of human nature.

How about those sick psychos who love to torture someone or rape someone just for fun.
How about the "dark desires".
Are there maybe necromancers and cultists outside of the city.
They might need "organs" of humans for their rituals.

Also there is lawlessness and anarchy.
If you have two rival organizations.
They can not go to the authorities if someone commits a crime towards them.
They have no other choice to enforce their own law.
Take actions to defend or survive.
If they go to the lord of high justice, they will lose their organization and income.
Thus organized crime is born.

Anyway....
My point...

It needs several entries.
It can not fit into the thieves underground entry, it would become too large.
There is just too much information to share.

I will make something and try to expand on it.
I would make people entries of notorious criminals or....
a misc. entry about a "drug" that spread trough.
Or a "place entry" that is directly affected by "dark side of crime".
They all carry a theme and could be linked towards the "thieves underground".
That's the direction i would take.
 

you agree?

 
thanks, artimdor

I'll submit something soon.

I am creating my CD on the RPG board first.
It's my priority to finish Darién.
I've gotten into a little bump with layering.
Trying to overlap story lines but putting them into the same scenes.
Create a powerful short story.
The more powerful you make a story, the more research you have to do.
I've created this huge back story to understand the motives, goals, psychology of all 35 characters.
I've got 1 dungeon. and multiple organizations, a few settings.

And it's only act 1.
I want the story compressed to a format that it reads very fast.
I want it to be professional.


Do you personally use a lot of tools for writing Artimidor?
Besides formatting structure, do you also use pot devices?
You heard of the hero journey from vogler?

These kinds of things are at the core of every story.

And I'm writing for emotional impact.
It's cool.

English isn't my first language, i have to re-translate all my work.
But santharia provides an audience and a good learning ground.

What I'm doing is...
Creating a realistic story.
With real people.
And flesh them about with little fantasy props in the setting and the dialogue.
It's a endless avenues to explore. So structure is key.

And i wish i had time-management.

You know i've been working and gathering and researching techniques for ages now.
It all started with my Darién character.
And now i will put it to the test again.
I started small and it got bigger.
Hehe
And it got bigger.
And now it has to become smaller again.
You understand what i mean?
 

Thanks,

I'm aware of the "thieves underground".
But it's a very global entry.
Its like an overview entry.
My focus is much deeper.
I would focus on different types of criminality.
They would be more like sub-entries.
Or they're specific entries for one city.
I want to create some aspects of "DARK FANTASY".
I want to create the human side that focusses on the darker aspects of human life.
A gothic theme.

The thieves underground just creates 1 layer.
I work in layering.
I would slowly make the reader descent into the depths of "true crime".
There used to be an outdated entry on the site that could explain my idea for a bit.
It was thugs, henchmen, patsies and a kingpin in charge of some illegal beer brewing.
I've been working on creating something similar, however with a more changing and organic structure.
The head of the snake might be cut off, but it will create a void of power to be taken by the next.
Underground fighting, prostitution, dealings with the black market….
I think the causes of criminality or natural events that will happen wherever there is high levels of anarchy and unfair wealth distribution.
A graven that falls from his position and loses his inheritance (his castle, or whatever), He might become a fine kingpin.
An orphan dropped on the streets without parents, he makes a fine thief.
When war rages the country, or some other calamity, it will create hard times for everyone; which will challenge the law-system. It will create anarchy and challenge peoples survival.
There will be many orphans and many bitter graven's when anarchy starts.

Thieves guilds and assassins guilds.
They are so mysterious….
How does it work?
Every organization develops differently…
It's all linked to what measures they have to take in order to survive.

Hmmmm…..

And the thresholds to darkness….

It describes 10 levels.

I made it up for character creation.

It basically describes someone who hears a "Dark calling".

Every level describes him losing more sanity.

You could compare the process as a combination between "alienation"  and "power abuse".

Level 1 is outstanding citizen. No conflict.

Level 5 is "Inner darkness". subject is conflicted. Has a darkness inside of him. Subject might develop forms of insanity trying to isolate the evil from his personality.

Level 10 is pure evil. Subject lost all connection with society. No longer has moral boundaries.

"Each threshold"  is basically a crime of isolation.
If you commit a small crime, you will start telling yourself lies.
If you committed multiple murders you might be ' emotionally numbing'  yourself.
Hmmm…
Might and exploitment of weaker people as yourself is a natural result of power.
Who has more power then him who wields magic?
Why would ximax not develop some sort of policy from preventing the wrong people to gain such power?

hehehe….

Well, something like that was my idea with the thresholds.
I always think about that LICHE entry.
Ximax would use this policy to prevent mages from going on that path.

—
Well it could be fun to explore the idea a bit.
If i did not write it well enough, i would be happy to have been a inspiration to someone who can do better.

You know artimidor.
Shortly after i submitted my Liche idea. (some years ago)
I failed to write it.
I just had this idea.
Eventually some time later, you felt the calling to actually make the thing.
It turned out well…
I also started a slimer entry.
haha
I remember Talia disagreeing about the liche concept.
She did not want more vampires she said.
A liche is soo different from a vampire.
hahaha

I can just give it a shot, to entertain you guys.
Submit something.
I learned a lot.
I should test my writing skills for an audience.
I'm sometimes a bit of a sloth.
But I work hard whenever I am passionate.
I think good ideas are in how it's conveyed.
I might not get the image of my vision towards you guys.
But i've found some new techniques to eventually try.
Maybe i will get more motivation if i actually succeed in a first entry.

I should start small.
If i created a dungeon for my first entry, would that be small enough?
Or maybe a persons entry….about a corrupt noble/ kingpin.
Hmm
My entries have little historical impact.
They are just used to describe a dark setting.
Like the "THIEF" games. Convey a mood.
Make a santharian "SCARFACE".
How about the avenue of santharian "special forces" to take them down.
How about Ximax-hunters to dispatch misuse of black magic.
How about a detectives employed by the order of the fallen or white knights to locate the roots of crime.
How about Seyella mind-soothers as opposition of drug dealing.
I'm just brainstorming now…
But well… we're in medieval and detectives who might somehow 'track DNA' (magic) or something more santharia themed. It's a fun to explore.
Anyways i'm rambling….
 

Hello people.
I'm Darien.
This is my alt for the development.
I had some problems creating a account.
I found this old account.
I've got some ideas for the Santharian "Underworld"
about criminals and stuff…..
Would you guys like it if i submitted some entries?
I think the Underworld is a nice new avenue to explore.
I'd centre it around Voldar or one of the other santharian metropolises.
In truth i allready got some stuff written.
It all started as part of my CD.
I needed to create a SETTING for my Darien character.
Now i've created this dark world of drug dealers, rogue mages, prostitution all with a santharian touch.
I've greatly improved my story-telling abilities.
I've never really quitted writing.
Instead i've been focussing on applying varying story-techniques.
Story structuring, plotting, using plot devices and adding layers of character depth.
I'm pretty passionate about writing some of these entries.
So far my idea are to create:

-A dungeon (with cool backstory)
-A group of 1 or more Sub-cultures existing inside one or more metropolises (organized crime and how it involves and evolves itself): outlaws/ rogues
- A drugs along with roots, origin  and historical impact.
-I've written a contrast of thresholds to darkness (which i use for dynamic characters) [but it could also be as policy for rogue and dark magic in the academy of ximax.

These things and more i've got for my CD to use as subtext.
I could contribute it to the site if you guys like the idea.

Greets Darien