I'm sorry if that last message doesn't fit.  Maybe I have been looking at this world from a programming perspective too long.

Anyway to contribute to the spell issue.  Consider the range of spells.  Not how far they reach but by who they effect.  Do spells effect a region of land, like a storm, darkness,  do they effect objects(people and things), such as teleportation, bless, flamestrike, or are they global, for example a spell that causes Dark magic to use more mana.  Each spell should have a counter spell.  Every spell needs a counter, the counter doesn't have to be a spell.

For example...
A bard may be able to play a song of silence and storms will soon disipate.  Heavenly light shining down because of the prayers of a priest.  Teleportation requiring movement points as well as mana, dispel magic to remove a blessing, magic reflection to reflect a flamestrike, dispell global enchantment.

My icq is 20748554 if you have any questions or comments.

I wrote some spells for sorren.  It was put into a database a few years ago.  It took me a few months to type them out.  They were classified into different spell books.  There was life, death, nature, and a couple other categories.  I don't remember exactly how many there were, but I still have the database somewhere.

Before we take on the task of refining spells we need to have a clear set of stats.  So then the spells will be able to effect something.  Like a healing spell effects someone's hp.  So will different harm spells.  How about a fog spell.  Well if it brings a fog what will happen?  Can we make it so that it causes arrows to miss their targets more?

We don't have the stats system to know what we can and can't do.  I vote that we wait on the spells.  And figure out in stone how we want stats.

I'm not set against leveling.  Leveling based on pure experience is not good I know that for certain.

I'm just thinking that maybe we can make the stats run behind the scenes instead of the primary concern of the player.

Getting the player so involved in the quests, plot, running their clan, looking for good equipment from different dungeons with friends would be nice.  If we can make the stats a side effect instead of the goal I can't help but think we will have a better "role" playing game.

I didn't find the site very useful, the game was kind of dull.  He did a descent job with making a turn based text java game that involved 2 people and a chatroom.  But that's about all that was involved in the game.

I could use some information from him and maybe the java source code but after e-mailing twice I never got a response from the author.

I have contacted netdragons.  I was familiar with vagabond's quest from last year when I was in the process of building the first beta of sorren.  They have been around for a while but are going out of business becuase of lack of funds.

I know how the guy feels.  Anyway the developer who developed that game is also studying 3d programming to try and make a 3d version of his game.  I think he's looking to get more into the strategy aspect in his 3d game and we are looking to get more into the rpg aspect in our now 3d game.  Creating the same thing all the time gets boring so it all makes sense.

I have attempted to make contact and will let you all know how it goes.

I personally have no intention of making a game that can be played offline.  I don't think that many people will be offline at all in 2 years.  I was born and raised in a small community with 75 people in it.  This year as we speak they are running fiber optics down all the streets.  Oringinally they will be using dsl then in a few years when fiber network cards decrease in cost plan on running the fiber right up to the house.

1.  I'm leading the programming section of development.  I am an experienced programmer who has a multiplayer strategy game with several thousand players.  As far as the others are concerned there aren't any who have successfully passed the test projects yet.  I'm kinda picky on who actually gets in on the main project and assign smaller things until then in order to test skills and dedication.  There are a couple of people doing projects now, the others have failed.  Everyone has to have at least 3 years of experience programming in some language or learn very quickly.

2.  Platform is win2k+, .net framework.  I'm trying this out to see how it works.  I most likely will not use soap, or xml for much of it sticking to sockets.

3. Language wise so far it looks like c# for client and server.  I'm aware of the pros and cons involved with development time and performance and have taken them into account.  Some c++ will be used to create dll's that the client and server use for performance demanding tasks.  And I plan on using java to help us share our work in progress with the rest of the world.  Viewing 3d models by webpage etc.

4.  Engines I have looked at are numerous.  I see 3 that appeal to me.  Wildtangent(based on jet3D) for web3d, it won't work with c# but works well with java as long as you don't use multiple threads in your application(besides the functions they provide that use multi threads), revolution3D(based on directx8vblib) looks like our tool for tool development and testing the app, i'm not certain if for the final product or not.  Becuase it's compiled using vb it makes me a bit nervous, but it plays very well with c#.  The engine that will probably be used in the actual game is destiny3d.  It's a c++ engine that can use directX, openGL, or software rendering.  The engine will be available with source code.  It's like the next version of genesis3d/jet3d.  Early tests have shown it to outperform unreal tournament but the engine isn't finished yet.  they will make a com compatible version then it should work in c# and I can test it myself.

5. What it needs to support is what we are figuring out now.  We are in the early planning and research stages of this project.  I don't want to jump in and things not work right.  My biggest goal is to create it so that it's easy to work with for future modifications and tweaking.

6.  I have several sample projects I have done showing how to use rev3d and make it work in c#.  This includes the use of textures, transparency, 3ds models in a world.

7.  Our development site will be at dev.sorren.com, www.sorren.com is the lands of sorren.  At dev.sorren.com we will be making website features so that we can exchange information and help to each other easier.  I don't want to advertise the development site though.  If someone isn't interested after playing The Lands of Sorren or browsing through the Santharia site then it's okay.

8.  I have multiple servers and redundant t1 connections.  I spend a couple thousand dollars per month to keep sorren up on them.

9.  No appologies necessary, please icq me at 20748554 so I can help you more one on one and find out some more about your skill sets to see where you might be able to help best.  We have site development, client app development, engine development, tentative physics system, business objects, database design, and several other areas of programming that need covered.  Most people developing a game thinks the client application is the big thing, in reality it's not.  It's the combination of everything working together and having good reliable teams in each area.

10.  I can't say if I would accept you into the team.  First thing that would happen is I would evaluate your skills by what you told me, then if I see a place that you might be of use i'll find a project that would be challenging to see how you handle it.  After that difficulty would increase in the projects and I would begin to see your strengths and weaknesses.

PS c# is such a new language most people won't know it anyway so don't get scared.  it's a piece of cake to learn just like java and vb.  A 2-3 week project to get down the basics and build some functional applications that make proper use of objects and stuff.  3D is also not very hard if you have the right engine.  For the more complex engines it's usually a double laying thing where you create classes to talk to the engine then work with simplified objects when building the application.  You shouldn't have this problem working with rev3d.

I think we all have a few hundred spells somewhere.  I'll look foreward to hearing how you all come up with magic.  I have written over a hundred different spells divided out by type death, life, nature, chaos, etc. and placed into various spellbooks.  The thought isn't that original.  Kind of like the ultima online spellbook except having one for each type of magic and a set of 5 volumes to have a complete set.

I can see skills better by race and items by skill.  but creating a link between race and items wouldn't be good.

By the way I have purchased diablo 2 and the expansion pack.  I do like the way items are handled.  Including the sockets.  I also like the cube being used to make better jewels from smaller ones.

Having such limited storage makes it important to pick and choose equipment carefully as well.

The terrain editor edits the out of zone world or what I call the wilderness.  The wilderness is a giant massive combinations of zones.  But they's not "built" as a normal zone such as towns or caves.

zones will most likely be constructed with worldbuilder.  It's the same tool that's used for half-life level editing as well as many other games.  Zones under construction will not show up in the wilderness until they have gone through a long testing process.  At that point a model will be built to represent what the outside of that town zone will look like.  The model of the outside of the town zone will then be placed inside the world.  When the border of the town zone is reached the player will essentially be playing a new level.

Well the way this is looking it will not be UO style.  More like the old final fantasy style.

I hope this doesn't disappoint some people.  But my reason for doing this is so that we can handle development easier and better.

We will be able to allow players to build a level (zone) if that is a cave, or a town that is all up to them.  The most likely tool for zone development will be worldcraft.  

The outside wilderness will be a totally different piece simply because of the scale required.