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Author Topic: Someone Please Listen!  (Read 2166 times)
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Tarquet Galbar
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« on: 09 July 2002, 11:42:00 »

Alright, I have a few things that, imo, need to be changed.

1.) When making a spell, there should only be one slot to classify it. Naming it's element, Xeuá, Ecuá, or spell class. That makes it a whole lot less confusing.

2.)Animate Dead should be put down as a Necromancy spell, not an Earth Magic spell.

3.)Word of Stunning should be put down as a Mentalism spell, not an Ecuá spell.

4.)Light should be put down as an Enchantment spell, not a Fire spell. Or the Enchantment should be taken off as it's spell class, since it does seem that it would make sense as a Fire spell.

5.)Searing should not have Imbuing Magic listed as a spell class.

6.)Fever of Nightmares should be listed as a Virus Magic spell, not a Water magic spell.

7.)Call Lightning shouldn't have Chaos listed as a spell class. It seems that it should just be kept as either Water or Wind.

8.)Aura Sight should be listed as a Clairvoyancy spell and not have Water in there. It doesn't work as a Weaver spell without some major reworking.

9.)Aura Sense should be listed as a Clairvoyancy spell and have Wind taken out.

10.)Insubstantial Shield should either be listed as a Movement Magic spell and have Wind taken out, or be listed as a Wind spell and take Movement out.

11.)Magical Chain should have Construction Magic taken out of it's Spell Class.

12.)Word of Fear should be listed as a Mentalism spell, not a Xeuá spell.

13.)Dominate should be listed as a Mentalism spell, not a Xeuá spell.

Alright, need reasons?

Firstly, things should only have one classification. A Necromancy spell isn't Earth magic, just like a Fire spell isn't an Enchantment.

Things affecting mind are Mentalism, such as the Word spells and Dominate. Things having to do with Fire are Fire spells, such as Searing. Imbuing would be putting the magic into somethign else, not one's own hands. Magical Chain is the sort of thing a Xeuá spell should be, making connections, quite literally. Construction magic is building things, like Golems and such. I thought Lightning was going to be a Wind thing, though I guess it could also cross over into Water, but it really has nothing to do with Chaos Magic. Animate Dead should most deffinitely be Necromancy, since animating dead things is a big point of Necromancy. Insubstantial Shield could work as movement, though it would probably do better as Wind. Aura Sight and Aura Sense should both be of one spell class. Clairvoyancy is a good choice, since it has to do with sight. Aura Sight most deffinitely shouldn't be classified as a Weaver Spell. Weavers have Weavings, not spells.

I hope someone will finally listen to me and take my opinion into consideration. This is really all for making things more simple, easier for people looking for certain spells from certain classes.

Tarquet Galbar,
BeastMaster Of Santharia
Creator of Weavers
Chronicler of the Rahaz-Dath Mercenaries

Edited by: Tarquet Galbar at: 7/8/02 7:14:28 pm
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Tarquet Galbar
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« Reply #1 on: 11 July 2002, 12:06:00 »

Hello? Anyone?

Tarquet Galbar,
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Thuja
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« Reply #2 on: 11 July 2002, 14:05:00 »

I think you categorization is correct.

"In a place like this, the magic is all around you, the trick is to see it."

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Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #3 on: 11 July 2002, 14:41:00 »

I thought all magic depends on the elements so:
Animate Dead => Necromancy  => Earth.

So the elements are only the most general definition of the field of magic...


But as said that was how I thought it. Where go the elements in your scheme then, Tarq?

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
--Santharian Master of Disaster--
One day I'll be the greatest of all Jedi!!

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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #4 on: 12 July 2002, 03:08:00 »

Yes, Tarquet, from a first look I can only say:   ???

Edited by: Artimidor Federkiel at: 7/11/02 10:09:56 am
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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #5 on: 12 July 2002, 13:31:00 »

I don't really understand your concept, Tarquet. That the spell classes aren't accurate currently at the existing spells, is not very surprising. This is because the spell classes and their relations to the main magical schools (wind, earth, fire, water, xeuá, ecuá and weaving) haven't been elaborated very well so far. I've done the main magic entry quite a while ago which was defined as Santharian magic canon after several discussions here at the Forum. And this magic canon was done because there were concepts in the field of magic - like the spell class definitions you did which led to various problems when there was no general magic basis. Now we have this basis. It's in the Magic entry. So far the Spell Classes weren't reworked, which is desperately necessary to explain the relations of spell classes to the main magic system.

Now you confuse me completely if you say e.g.:
"Dominate should be listed as a Mentalism spell, not a Xeuá spell." or "Call Lightning shouldn't have Chaos listed as a spell class. It seems that it should just be kept as either Water or Wind." - Now what? Spell Schools and Spell Classes are completely different categorizations, Tarquet! They are on different levels.

Take a look at the Dominate spell - you'll read there that the Magical School is Xeuá Magic and that the Spell Class is Mentalism, just as you've said. You're mixing things up here.

Precision: The Spell Classes you mention in the entry are ok, but they need to be re-defined in detail. E.g. each Elemental Magics (e.g. fire, water, earth or wind) can have Necromancy spells in their repertoire, but certain elements have a higher affinity towards Necromancy (e.g. affinity of earth towards Necromancy is pretty high). On the other hand Wind Magic can also have Necromancy spells, e.g. a Seance spell could be a Wind/Necromancy spell.

If you study magic I suggest that you could concentrate your studies first on the element for example and later one or more spell classes and get a bonus then in these fields. But as I've said: We need a much more detailed entry here.

BTW: Would also be good to have first Weaver spells, huh? How about it, Weaver?


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Llandon Elranwe
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« Reply #6 on: 12 July 2002, 14:28:00 »

The reason I say that is because that's what's in the entry. Like with Animate Dead, under spell class it says Necromancy. I just think the spells should be listed by spell class, not by the School. That would make them easier to find for each mage with a certain specialization.

As for Weaver spells: They're different from other spells, because they aren't really spells. They're Weavings, patterns. Not much to do with reagents or speaking or anything, just pulling magic together in a certain way. I've been working on an update to the Weaver Magic entry, but I'm still not completely satisfiedwith it. I'll get it up when it looks ready to me, it should explain it in more detail.

Oops, heh. This is Tarq, just a different thing.

Edited by: Llandon Elranwe at: 7/11/02 9:29:10 pm
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Artimidor Federkiel
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« Reply #7 on: 12 July 2002, 15:08:00 »

Well, of course there are two ways to see it, but as we have Fire Mages and Earth Mages primarily and a Necromancer is mainly a specification of an Earth Mage (School determines predominating Spell Classes, not the other way round), it seems more important to have spells listed by elemental type as by Spell Class. This is similar like the Bestiary/Herbarium-thingy: Order beasts/plants by type, by region or alphabetically. We'll have both views in the end, but first I need a good treeview script - and an updated Spell Classes entry.


The Santharian Dream Webmaster - Let Fantasy Dreams come true!
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"Between the mind that plans and the hands that build there must be a mediator, and this must be the heart." -- Maria (Metropolis)
Koldar Mondrakken
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« Reply #8 on: 12 July 2002, 15:52:00 »

Looking at it from a gamer's point of view assuming I make a charakter I would somehow assume that you generally chose the direction of your spells by saying what element your mage is "studying", then maybe the various spell classes and what spells he want to learn.
But I assume a Necromancer would like to be able to learn other Earth spells as well maybe like Construction magic and other than with other schools I don't see an as great barrier to learn such spells of other classes as well...

As multi-element-mages should be sparse anyway organizing the spells by school/class/List of Spells seems like the most efficient and fastest way to find the most interesting spells for a given char...

Only my feeling concerning organization. We would also keep the navigation structures balanced, I guess, with the option to add new spell classes given the case that one class has a confusing amount of similar spells. In short IMO t would make organization and navigation easier.

Koldar Mondrakken, Knight of the Moonlight
--Santharian Master of Disaster--
One day I'll be the greatest of all Jedi!!

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Tarquet Galbar
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« Reply #9 on: 12 July 2002, 21:38:00 »

Alright, I see both points.

I like your idea Koldar. If they study a spell class under a certain element, then to a certain extent (not a lot) they should be able to learn basic spells of that element or other classes under it. And if they study that element, they should be able to get base spells from the various classes. I don't know why I didn't think that way before. *whap*

Would still like the Weaver spell changed. Xarl didn't mean it to be a Weaver spell, and I'm working on updating Weaver magic as I said. If I get that done, and no one has done it yet, I'll work on updating the Spell Classes entry.

Tarquet Galbar,
BeastMaster Of Santharia
Creator of Weavers
Chronicler of the Rahaz-Dath Mercenaries

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