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Author Topic: Shadowmancy  (Read 9065 times)
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Mina
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« Reply #15 on: 01 August 2005, 04:10:00 »

After reading through your post carefully it seems both of us agree that shadowmancy is an indirect form of clerical magic.  I was under the impression that you were claiming it to be the direct form, which I did not agree with.  As for the definition of clerical magic, I never said that it could only be clerical magic if the magical effect was believed to be solely caused by the god.  What I said was that that was how Santharian clerical magic seems to work, and it need not be the same for other cultures of Caelereth.  I believe I did mention that a magic system could be considered clerical if gods are believed by its practitioners to be involved in any way, whether directly or indirectly.  

I also see that I might perhaps have acted too quickly in assuming that you intended the Ximaxian theories to be the main part of the entry.  I'll try to remember next time that the main parts of an entry aren't always the ones that are written first.  

BTW, since you did mention summoning ghosts and demons as part of the Ximaxian entry, does this mean that they are now no longer mythical beings, but definitely exist?  I haven't been able to find any recent discussion about them on the dev board when I looked, though I seem to recall that there was some talk about them only a short time ago.  

I'll most likely be unable to visit again until the next weekend, so any further discussion you might wish to have with me would probably have to wait until then.  


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isaraldor glamthail
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« Reply #16 on: 01 August 2005, 18:32:00 »

@mina: was going to, but you covered it already.

@rayne: you can always talk to me. (well, almost always) besides i need to learn how the experts do things and get invovled to become one.

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #17 on: 01 August 2005, 21:04:00 »

Quote:
since you did mention summoning ghosts and demons as part of the Ximaxian entry, does this mean that they are now no longer mythical beings, but definitely exist?


Well, I don't know. I have to remain true to the entries currently up on the site, and the Kasumarii mentions this:

Quote:
Those who dabble in Shadowmancy learn how to bend light around them, to cloak themselves in shadow, and have the frightening knowledge to turn the very shadows around an individual into spiritual ghosts that have the power to literally suck the life out of the one whom they have attacked.


I would prefer to keep myths as myths. The Ximaxian explanations explain how such a thing is possible, though I think the entry does a good job of not stating that such creatures exist, just that this is how they would do it. I don't think dark priests often come to Santharia, so a lot of the Shadowmancy we've been exposed to probably comes from Kasumarii assassins hired by the rich, and these assassins know a little bit of shadowmancy, though they don't have the ability to summon.

Isa: Just join into the conversation. Perhaps you have an idea about what to do with this summoning problem? We want to keep myths as myths, but we also need to stay true to the entry.

I wonder if we can't get Arti to tweak that part a little.

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Marvin Cerambit
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« Reply #18 on: 09 August 2005, 12:20:00 »

How about letting the shadows suck the fire ouns out of people, or something like that?

And does faith still have an influence on the casting? Like stronger/weaker spells? And can somebody who completely lost faith still cast? Or do the gods 'take away their abilities' when that happens?

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #19 on: 09 August 2005, 12:31:00 »

How would shadow suck fire ounia away from people? The car'all of a shadow... that's not right... the car'all of something IN shadow... is stable. The car'all of most people is stable at any given time (or we assume). It would be rather difficult to had shadows such fire ounia out of people. I'm not sure I see why a caster would do this, either.

Faith should have some influence over casting. That's a good point. I'll address that in this entry. Thanks, Marvin!

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Erian Melor
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« Reply #20 on: 09 August 2005, 13:34:00 »

Quote:
Those who dabble in Shadowmancy learn how to bend light around them, to cloak themselves in shadow, and have the frightening knowledge to turn the very shadows around an individual into spiritual ghosts that have the power to literally suck the life out of the one whom they have attacked.

I can understand how this paragraph could cause a few problems. Maybe instead of claiming that the ghosts are actually demons, you could say that the victim perceives himself/herself to be surrounded by ghosts and dies of fright? I would imagine that a darkpriest could do such a thing. I realize that I probably have no business commenting in the magic forum, but I actually understood your entry! Maybe I'm learning to understand the magic system after all.;)  

Erian Melor~The spark of life rests upon the edge of a knife.
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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #21 on: 09 August 2005, 13:43:00 »

I do try to use a less complicated means of explanation, which is why I redid some entries for Artimidor. Artimidor is the expert, but he can be awfully complicated at times (it's because he's so brilliant, though).

I don't want to change the entry too much based on perceptions--how someone might perceive a fiven situation. I think that, if in actuality someone was killed because of how they percieved the shadows, that would be the explanation given in the Kasumarii entry. Maybe, though, the Kasumarii entry can be changed. It is a good point you bring up!

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Kain Cristar
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« Reply #22 on: 09 August 2005, 18:20:00 »

Maybe... Maybe it is a spell that is much like touch of fate, but instead of through the actual hands, it creates an avatar of shadow drain the victim of Car'all? Then the "ghost" dissapears because it's car'all takes damage = to that of the victim's?... I have no idea what the avatar might be, maybe just a manifestation of anti fire? That acts as a channel for the spell? You would have to be mighty powerfull to do such a thing, but... uh.. I say it can so there!:evil  I dont know.:noidea  

Edited by: Kain Cristar  at: 8/9/05 2:30
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Ta`lia of the Seven Jewels
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« Reply #23 on: 09 August 2005, 18:29:00 »

Oh, I missed this entry totally, will come back to it later!

(2:30 am here)

Rayne, do you know my first steps of magical cleric for santharia?

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Rayne (Alýr)
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« Reply #24 on: 09 August 2005, 21:58:00 »

You can't really "drain" car'all. :|  ::is confused::

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"There is much misjudgment in the world. Now, I knew you for a unicorn when I first saw you, and I know that I am your friend. Yet you take me for a clown, or a clod, or a betrayer, and so I must be if you see me so. The magic on you is only magic and will vanish as soon as you are free, but the enchantment of error that you put on me I must wear forever in your eyes. We are not always what we seem..." -Schmendrick the Magician, The Last Unicorn
Kain Cristar
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« Reply #25 on: 09 August 2005, 23:44:00 »

sorry I say things funny because I talk like i think and it makes sense to me... sometimes... What i mean is it takes the foes Car'all into yourself. Thats what the discriptor states anyways. I am bad at explaining this... here is a link

Edited by: Kain Cristar  at: 8/9/05 7:52
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You have lived a life of cruelty and atrocity, you have bathed in the blood of the innocent, you have considered every act of depravity and your corruption knows no bounds. I am the angel of justice, I am the accumulation of all of your sins. Prepare for your redemption.

        -Kain Cristar, Divine Aspect
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« Reply #26 on: 10 August 2005, 01:45:00 »

Rayne, I haven't followed all of your discussion with Mina, just read your entry. I'm totally happy with it (not really understanding your Ximaxian explanation, at least I couldn't say, if it is correct!) and will have no problem with integrating it in this huge project about Clerical magic I'm planning. I might just introduce your "essay" with the hint, that an Ximaxian mage wrote it and that those of course tend to say, that clerics, even Santharian, use spells,where clerics deny heavily, that their prayers are spells. I will treat Viresse' entry about clerical magic in the same way. Hope you don't have objections with it.

And I really like it, especially the part I understand ;)  

***Astropic of the day***
"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path   that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking, looking, breathlessly. ~Don Juan"

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"For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path  that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel looking,  breathlessly. ~Don Juan"
***Astropicture of the Day***Talia's Long, Long List***
Mina
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« Reply #27 on: 10 August 2005, 04:54:00 »

That spell is old.  Car'all isn't analogous to things like the mana that a lot of fantasy worlds seem to have.  I don't think it's a concept that can easily be explained in English.  Terms used in the past to translate it include 'aura', 'spirit', and 'idea', but I don't think any of those terms really fit.  The best translation I can think up at the moment would be 'a nonphysical equivilent of the physical manifestation of something'.  Thus, you can't just drain it.  The closest you can get, from what I understand, is to merge two car'alls into one, and even that would require powerful xeua magic, if it's possible at all.  You could, of course, assuming it works, merge your foe's target with your own, but I doubt that it'd produce the effect you want.  


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Marvin Cerambit
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« Reply #28 on: 10 August 2005, 05:42:00 »

Well, I'm just trying to give an alternative way of seeing things. Maybe it's just the Kasumarii that say that the live is sucked out of the victims. It’s not like the victims will be able to tell how it feels afterwards. I was thinking about the shadows of being more a visual representation of what really happens.

Cár’áll is stable at any give time, but what happens if the cár’áll of a person is altered? It’s still going to be stable, but with slightly different characteristics. To give a RL-example: if the acidity of blood would be slightly altered it would kill you, so maybe the altering of you cár’áll is going to kill you as well.

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Kain Cristar
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« Reply #29 on: 10 August 2005, 13:19:00 »

Oh... but it is such a sweet spell... it makes me so happy inside... anyways it was just a thought. good one though, if it had been good i mean... yea. ON that note, should i cut the spell out of my character then? And what is wrong with the spell being availible only to extremely powerfull mages? I am not extremely familliar with the entry, but does it say that lesser mages can cast this ghost spell?:noidea  

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You have lived a life of cruelty and atrocity, you have bathed in the blood of the innocent, you have considered every act of depravity and your corruption knows no bounds. I am the angel of justice, I am the accumulation of all of your sins. Prepare for your redemption.

        -Kain Cristar, Divine Aspect
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